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spacemule

log sheet etiquette

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Scenario: small log sheet.  People signing with a stamp that takes up 5 lines or they skip lines.

 

Am I the only one that finds this behavior annoying, self-centered, and tacky?

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9 minutes ago, spacemule said:

Scenario: small log sheet.  People signing with a stamp that takes up 5 lines or they skip lines.

 

Am I the only one that finds this behavior annoying, self-centered, and tacky?

Maybe annoying. 

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In small and larger caches with note pad log books, I do find it bad form when someone misses lines or turns the page, as if they don't want their signature to share a page with other people. It reflects badly on them. As for ink stamps, they are fine in a good sized cache log. They shouldn't be used on a micro log though, as they do take too much room...unless it's a letterbox cache.

Letterbox caches should have big enough logs for people to stamp with their stamps, but I have found a number of caches being listed as letterbox caches, but only supplying micro sized logs in micro sized container. As letterbox logs should be big enough for stamps, in those cases I would say go ahead and use your stamp and fill up the log quickly with ink stamps to give the CO the message they should not use small logs in a letterbox cache.

However in non-letterbox caches with small logs I wouldn't stamp it and I try to use a small area for my signature, so the log lasts longer. That's being thoughtful. However, if the log is say micro sized, I would ask the question, isn't there room for a bigger cache? Then a stamp is no problem. I find too many nanos and micros these days, even when a small or larger cache would have worked. Why put a micro cache (say a mintie tin or a film canister), when a small container would also work. If not in that exact spot, look around for another hide where a bigger cache would go. Small and larger caches also then allow small trinkets to be swapped and place to leave a TB, as well as allowing space for a larger log where ink stamps are usually not a problem.

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It's true, there are a lot of small and micro caches these days. It's a shame, because regular and large are so satisfying to find, especially when taking friends for the first time.

My guess is people like to go for more urban caches which have more traffic and are easier to go for with little time. The high traffic means they're more easily muggled and once people have their caches muggled a bunch of times they switch out for placing smaller more discrete caches.
 

The space inefficient log signing is a problem I've seen many places. When I come upon a log with gaps I feel torn; should I fill the gaps to save space, or follow the previous cacher to preserve the date sequencing.

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1 hour ago, spacemule said:

Scenario: small log sheet.  People signing with a stamp that takes up 5 lines or they skip lines.

 

Am I the only one that finds this behavior annoying, self-centered, and tacky?

Nope.  You're not the only one...

 

 

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24 minutes ago, CheekyBrit said:

My guess is people like to go for more urban caches which have more traffic and are easier to go for with little time.

But even with urban caches, often it's possible to have at least a small sized cache. It just takes a bit more ingenuity and thought. That's likely to be more appreciated too more by the finder. Recently I cached in the CBD of Sydney and not all were micros and nanos.

It isn't only urban situations that micros and nanos are found in. They are found in forests, so not only an urban problem.

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24 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

But even with urban caches, often it's possible to have at least a small sized cache. It just takes a bit more ingenuity and thought. That's likely to be more appreciated too more by the finder. Recently I cached in the CBD of Sydney and not all were micros and nanos.

It isn't only urban situations that micros and nanos are found in. They are found in forests, so not only an urban problem.

Not everyone considers micros and nanos to be a "problem".

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6 minutes ago, niraD said:

Not everyone considers micros and nanos to be a "problem".

Obviously, because otherwise there wouldn't be so many. Shame that they dominate so much and more people don't place smalls and even better, regulars. That would help lift the standard.

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Personally, I love micros and nanos.  I couldn't care less about swag. To do away with micros and nanos would be lowering the standard.

Edited by spacemule
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39 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:
48 minutes ago, niraD said:

Not everyone considers micros and nanos to be a "problem".

Obviously, because otherwise there wouldn't be so many. Shame that they dominate so much and more people don't place smalls and even better, regulars. That would help lift the standard.

 

Around here, micros and nanos are in the minority, with smalls and regulars being the most common sizes.

 

image.png.56dec6a5520c2f1a06f6a178725b5b94.png

 

For my hides, I generally provide a logbook with sufficient pages so each finder can use a whole page if they want, and some do, writing detailed logs of their adventure in it. So far in six years of caching, I've yet to have to replace a full logbook, although my oldest surviving hide, GC4X42A with 290 finds, will likely get close in another couple of years.

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39 minutes ago, spacemule said:

Personally, I love micros and nanos.  I couldn't care less about swag. To do away with micros and nanos would be lowering the standard.

I don't look for swag either, although I do drop off trinkets, anything from mundane (to me) to really good stuff.

What bigger caches allow for is for TBs to fit. Caches bigger than nanos and micros also allow for bigger logs that don't fill up as quickly as for micros and nanos. As barefootjeff writes bigger logs can last for many years.  They also allow those who want to write something space to do this.

So many micro and especially nano caches I come upon have full logs because they fill up so quickly. Many people who place them are not prepared for, or aware of the amount of visits they require to keep them in good order with logs with plenty of space to write on. The signatures are also harder to read, get written over more and don't last as well on some types of micro paper.  Generally inferior caches and logs. My first cache I placed was a nano. Because I was so inexperienced I didn't know how boring it was. It has been archived. It isn't always possible, but when placing a cache I will place a small cache or better if at all possible.

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6 minutes ago, Goldenwattle said:

I don't look for swag either, although I do drop off trinkets, anything from mundane (to me) to really good stuff.

What bigger caches allow for is for TBs to fit. Caches bigger than nanos and micros also allow for bigger logs that don't fill up as quickly as for micros and nanos. As barefootjeff writes bigger logs can last for many years.  They also allow those who want to write something space to do this.

So many micro and especially nano caches I come upon have full logs because they fill up so quickly. Many people who place them are not prepared for, or aware of the amount of visits they require to keep them in good order with logs with plenty of space to write on. The signatures are also harder to read, get written over more and don't last as well on some types of micro paper.  Generally inferior caches and logs. My first cache I placed was a nano. Because I was so inexperienced I didn't know how boring it was. It has been archived. It isn't always possible, but when placing a cache I will place a small cache or better if at all possible.

I never leave notes on logs.  Logs are for signatures.  If I leave a note, it's digital. "Boring" is subjective.

Edited by spacemule
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6 minutes ago, spacemule said:

I never leave notes on logs.  Logs are for signatures.  If I leave a note, it's digital.

I rarely leave notes either, but a few people do, especially on remote caches that have taken an effort to get to. Some people also like to read them, the same as they like to read good, interesting online logs. I go caching with someone who likes to read logs. Bigger logs make the signatures more readable for when checking the signatures off against the online log, to check the finder actually found the cache. Nanos particularly, they are often basically unreadable.

Edited by Goldenwattle

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4 hours ago, spacemule said:

Scenario: small log sheet.  People signing with a stamp that takes up 5 lines or they skip lines.

 

Am I the only one that finds this behavior annoying, self-centered, and tacky?

Maybe tacky. Unthinking is the better description, perhaps. The tiny logs are small enough to begin with without someone forcing me to unroll them even further than I'd otherwise need to.

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1 hour ago, spacemule said:

I never leave notes on logs.  Logs are for signatures.  If I leave a note, it's digital. "Boring" is subjective.

That's a shame.

 

I really enjoy reading physical logs when I visit caches that are suitably located for detailed logs. Not every cache is, but even just a couple more words than a signature and date really shows your appreciation for the cache in my view. I wish people would do so ore often - it doesn't need to be an essay (although there are caches where that's possible to do).

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11 hours ago, spacemule said:

Scenario: small log sheet.  People signing with a stamp that takes up 5 lines or they skip lines.

 

Am I the only one that finds this behavior annoying, self-centered, and tacky?

Some people have arthritis, bad eyesight, or other conditions that make signing with a pen - especially in those tiny log strips - difficult or impossible. Thus, they use a stamp. I suppose they could carry two stamps; one regular size, one with a teeny tiny name on it for nano logs. But at least they're making their mark in your log. Be grateful they're looking for your caches, and give 'em a break.

 

Skipping lines? I cannot properly sign even just my initials and the date in a 4x4mm space. You bet I'm going to take up what space I need. I don't leave blank spaces, and I don't purposely take more space than I need, but I'm going to make at least my initials and the date legible. I'm sure folks older than I and/or with worse eyesight have the same problem.

 

Nano and micro caches often take more maintenance than larger caches. It's just something a CO has to live with.

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49 minutes ago, TriciaG said:

But at least they're making their mark in your log. Be grateful they're looking for your caches, and give 'em a break.

That may be true in some cases, but I'd say that's a tiny minority of cases. Best not to excuse the practice as a whole on the merit of a handful.  Better would be to simply disapprove the habit unless absolutely necessary.

 

51 minutes ago, TriciaG said:

It's just something a CO has to live with.

Hmm... I hope not. I think there is absolutely a reasonable expectation that people will understand that a small logsheet implies a small signature, and for the sake of followup cachers AND the CO taking up as little space as possible is most appropriate way to go.  Not saying this is you, but the "I'ma do what I want and it's the other person's problem if they're upset" really bugs me... I think there's a reasonable expectation for most everything in the game, while leaving room for exceptions when necessary.

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12 hours ago, spacemule said:

Am I the only one that finds this behavior annoying, self-centered, and tacky?

 

That reminds me of the first time I felt that COs were becoming annoying, self-centered, and tacky... the first time I found a logsheet, not a logbook in a swag size cache.

 

It was circa 2005. The sheet was in a sandwich size cache. To top it off the owner had printed, on both sides, a table with about 200 tiny cells. A total of 400 tiny cells for finders to use. First thought... this owner doesn't plan to return to check their cache. And I was right. He never returned and the cache was archived a few years later by a reviewer.

 

That day proved to be the beginning of a new trend. Soon almost all caches had logsheets and not logbooks. And more and more people in the forums were angry about people using too much space. 

Edited by L0ne.R
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10 hours ago, Blue Square Thing said:

I really enjoy reading physical logs when I visit caches that are suitably located for detailed logs. Not every cache is, but even just a couple more words than a signature and date really shows your appreciation for the cache in my view. I wish people would do so ore often - it doesn't need to be an essay (although there are caches where that's possible to do).

I appreciate this sentiment, and I try to write a nice log whenever there's obviously enough room. So I don't mean to discourage anyone from feeling this way, and I'm happy to imagine any particular CO going out after every find to see what someone wrote. But I don't seriously think anyone will ever read what I wrote in most cases, so I can't really blame the vast majority that just sign their names and move on.

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10 hours ago, dprovan said:

The tiny logs are small enough to begin with without someone forcing me to unroll them even further than I'd otherwise need to.

Huh.  To be upset/worried/irritated (pick how you feel) about having to unroll some paper.  Do you feel the same about having to turn more pages? 

 

And it really depends on the way it's rolled.  Most times I've seen the 'top' of the roll at the inside, the more space people use the less unrolling you need to do (until the second side is started).  It sure sounds like "I have to get this done as fast as I can so I can get to the next cache" - isn't that the numbers game?

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15 hours ago, spacemule said:

Scenario: small log sheet.  People signing with a stamp that takes up 5 lines or they skip lines.

Am I the only one that finds this behavior annoying, self-centered, and tacky?

11 hours ago, spacemule said:

I never leave notes on logs.  Logs are for signatures.  If I leave a note, it's digital. "Boring" is subjective.

 

I feel if a CO is going to have a small log sheet, they shouldn't be too surprised when maintenance is a regular thing.   ;)

Personally, I'm not anal enough to be bothered by how "others" sign a log.  I have arthritis, and am considering a stamp myself.

 - I certainly wouldn't consider someone simply skipping a line to be self-centered or "tacky"...

 

Most our log books have long logs, poems, artwork, and much more inside. 

Many are from people who've never or rarely logged online.  Unlike a paper strip with a sig n date, we treasure them.

I understand your point, but think it's a shame that you miss out when folks are free to express themselves the way they'd like.

 - When we've shared our older log books with others, "boring" wasn't the response we've witnessed.    :)

 

 

 

 

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12 hours ago, spacemule said:

Logs are for signatures.  

 

Wrong. Your signature is the minimum requirement for a paper log.

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If you're going to technicalities, logs are just records of events. In geocaching the minimum requirement is a signature. But 'log' implies there can/may be more.  The size of the logsheet/book implies how much 'extra' would be reasonable in that particular instance. Ignoring the size of the object (merely for the sake of it of course*), I dare say is being annoying and tacky.

Anyone who finds the log can infer what a reasonable written 'record' would look like.  Intentionally making it more difficult for other geocachers or the cache owner, to me, is annoying and tacky.

* again, there can be exceptions; this is a general consideration

Think of others first whenever possible - I would say that's a good baseline geocaching ethic.

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I enjoy the full range of sizes, but I absolutely love it when I am fooled by someone somehow hiding a large or a regular in an urban setting thanks to camouflage. My mind is blown and I'm left with a big grin on my face just like after a magic trick. It is certainly harder to hide larger containers in urban settings than it is to hide smaller containers. I don't claim anyone here is micro shaming, but I can empathize with an area with hardly anything else.

Back to topic, your signature should definitely adapt to the space available.

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Interesting.  It appears we have two pretty distinct camps here. 

 

I do not mind maintaining caches at all.  I like to check periodically to ensure they are still good.  Nothing is more frustrating than hunting for a cache that is no longer there or is waterlogged or is otherwise in poor shape.

 

Don't get me wrong--I appreciate handwritten notes as much as the next guy. Context is key.  If it's a larger cache and uses a notebook, then go ahead and use the space (not advocating skipping pages of course).  Using a lot of space in a small log doesn't "bother" me per se--I shrug my shoulders and go on.  I am merely talking about the impression it gives me. 

 

It's the same impression as people who leave their shopping carts in the middle of parking spaces.  People who drive in the left hand lane for miles at a time going the same speed as the right hand lane.  People who would rather throw their trash out of their car window for someone else to pick up than have to take two steps to put it in a bin when they get out.  Granted, these are on different areas of a spectrum of behavior, but the base impression is the same.  People will be people.  Your mileage may vary. 

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4 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

To top it off the owner had printed, on both sides, a table with about 200 tiny cells. A total of 400 tiny cells for finders to use. First thought... this owner doesn't plan to return to check their cache. And I was right. He never returned and the cache was archived a few years later by a reviewer.

 

Ha ha, that reminds me of one I found last year in the Watagan Mountains. Its log is a huge 500-page notebook and my first thought was gosh, he's expecting a lot of finders!

 

DSC_0041.jpg.e2d624ef529a4705de1697bd508d37b1.jpg

 

The cache, published almost two years ago, has so far had 43 finds, with most of those being during the nearby Morisset mega in April 2018. Perhaps, like your one, the owner doesn't plan to return to check on it (there haven't been any OM logs so far, the only logs being those 43 finds and the publish one) but since it's an ammo can deep under a rock ledge in a spot unlikely to be visited by muggles, I doubt there'll ever be a need for him to do so.

 

It's a bit hard to tell from my photo, but it looks like many people, including me, are writing more than just the date and their signature in that book.

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5 hours ago, The Jester said:

Huh.  To be upset/worried/irritated (pick how you feel) about having to unroll some paper.  Do you feel the same about having to turn more pages? 

 

And it really depends on the way it's rolled.  Most times I've seen the 'top' of the roll at the inside, the more space people use the less unrolling you need to do (until the second side is started).  It sure sounds like "I have to get this done as fast as I can so I can get to the next cache" - isn't that the numbers game?

Unrolling and particularly re-rolling the rolled log is a lot more time consuming and difficult then turning a few pages in a log book. There is no comparison. Some people also have great difficulty with rolling logs, particularly if too much length has been included for the size of the nano. Especially in those caches it's also MUCH easier and more pleasant to open a log book, than to get a tightly wound and stuck nano log out of the cache. Then to put it back. I don't like doing this, but a couple of times I had to rip off some paper from a nano log as it was the only way I could get it back. I've never needed to rip pages from a log book to get it back inside a cache.

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9 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Unrolling and particularly re-rolling the rolled log is a lot more time consuming and difficult then turning a few pages in a log book. There is no comparison. Some people also have great difficulty with rolling logs, particularly if too much length has been included for the size of the nano. Especially in those caches it's also MUCH easier and more pleasant to open a log book, than to get a tightly wound and stuck nano log out of the cache. Then to put it back. I don't like doing this, but a couple of times I had to rip off some paper from a nano log as it was the only way I could get it back. I've never needed to rip pages from a log book to get it back inside a cache.

That is why 'log rollers' have been invented.  And isn't ripping off some paper the same as leaving a large signature?  Both leave less space for others to use.

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1 hour ago, The Jester said:

That is why 'log rollers' have been invented.  And isn't ripping off some paper the same as leaving a large signature?  Both leave less space for others to use.

So, would it have been preferable if I had just left the log, as I couldn't get it back, on the ground?

Never heard of or seen a 'log roller'. No one should be expected to get one of these obscure things, especially when most of these caches have low D&T ratings, that don't indicate (and shouldn't be expected because of the low rating) to have to use a special obscure tool. COs shouldn't have so long a log that it makes their logs so tight some people struggle to get them back in the nano; let alone out. I have seen many logs, because of this, that say, "Couldn't get the log out. I have a photograph if needed." The log will likely get damaged and even more jammed, as people struggle with all sorts of tools, often improvised, to get the log out. Taking a bit of paper off will probably avoid much of the damage. As you reacted to this, are you a CO who puts as long a roll of paper in as possible, thinking it will last longer? If it gets damaged because it's overly long, it could actually last less time than a slightly shorter roll.

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2 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

COs shouldn't have so long a log that it makes their logs so tight some people struggle to get them back in the nano; let alone out.

But that could be part of the D :laughing:

 

2 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

The log will likely get damaged and even more jammed, as people struggle with all sorts of tools, often improvised, to get the log out.

Yes this happens in many aspects of the hobby. COs often don't think about the long term effects of every part of their geocache hide, thinking "well I had no issue so no one else should", and those typically end up needing much more maintenance in the long run or fall into disrepair.

 

 

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6 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

Never heard of or seen a 'log roller'. No one should be expected to get one of these obscure things, especially when most of these caches have low D&T ratings, that don't indicate (and shouldn't be expected because of the low rating) to have to use a special obscure tool.

It's not an "obscure thing", it's (from what I've seen/people I've talked to) a pretty standard TOTT.  Here's one of many available (notice it's under the TOTT category).

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You don't even need to buy a special tool to make a log roller.  Any standard cotter pin from any hardware store will work.  A log roller is a standard tool that should be in every cacher's bag.  It is not obscure.

Edited by spacemule

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Well, I wouldn't say "every cacher's bag". But yes, anyone who finds difficulty with rolling small logs would do well with having one at the ready :) Since they can be made easily if necessary, there's no real reason to complain about tiny caches because of the difficulty of rolling tiny logs.

Now, complaining about tiny logs or caches on principle, that's a different matter  :laughing::laughing:

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5 minutes ago, spacemule said:

You don't even need to buy a special tool to make a log roller.  Any standard cotter pin from any hardware store will work.  A log roller is a standard tool that should be in every cacher's bag.  It is not obscure.

 

Nanos are fairly rare around here, making up only a tiny fraction of the micros which themselves are in third place behind smalls and regulars, and I've yet to encounter one where I couldn't roll up the log and put it into the lid (the people who put the logs in the body instead of the lid, making them difficult to get out, are the biggest problem I've had with those things). A log-roller from one of our local caching suppliers is $3.50 but the postage on that would push it over $10, and if I did buy one and put it in my caching bag, I'd probably lose it before I ever got the chance to use it in anger.

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4 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

Nanos are fairly rare around here, making up only a tiny fraction of the micros which themselves are in third place behind smalls and regulars, and I've yet to encounter one where I couldn't roll up the log and put it into the lid (the people who put the logs in the body instead of the lid, making them difficult to get out, are the biggest problem I've had with those things). A log-roller from one of our local caching suppliers is $3.50 but the postage on that would push it over $10, and if I did buy one and put it in my caching bag, I'd probably lose it before I ever got the chance to use it in anger.

 

Same here.   SW of me in more urban areas maybe, but here pill bottles reign right now.  Nanos in woods never went over well...

I never saw a "log roller" until this thread.  Surprised that it's now considered "TOTT", though I do have two cotter pins in my EDC tin. 

Luckily I've been able to pass most nanos to another, who asked for the stop on the way to a cache both of us are interested in.   ;)

 

Agree that similar to people not replacing the log into bison caps,  common sense could fix a lot of issues.  :)

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40 minutes ago, spacemule said:

Here's your log roller.  $.76 for 2 and available off the shelf in virtually every town in America.   https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-8-in-x-2-in-Stainless-Cotter-Pins-2-Piece-815348/204276203

 

Neither Goldenwattle nor I are in America so that doesn't help, although perhaps Bunnings might have something similar. In any case, I'd probably still lose it before I got the chance to use it. Of my 1080 finds, only 289 were micros and of those, I'd say less than a dozen were nanos.

Edited by barefootjeff

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5 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

Neither Goldenwattle nor I are in America so that doesn't help, although perhaps Bunnings might have something similar. In any case, I'd probably still lose it before I got the chance to use it.

 

I've used the end of a chunky cable tie to achieve a similar purpose.... helps to keep a log neat....

 

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41 minutes ago, spacemule said:

Here's your log roller.  $.76 for 2 and available off the shelf in virtually every town in America.   https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-8-in-x-2-in-Stainless-Cotter-Pins-2-Piece-815348/204276203

Inserting the cotter pin into a handle (of some sort or another) makes them easier to use, and harder to lose.  They are nice for bison sized logs.

 

Another type - that I use - is based on the split roller pin (like this) - mounted in a small wood dowel handle.  I find it takes less room in the center of the roll so is nice for a blinkie nano scroll.

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8 hours ago, The Jester said:

a pretty standard TOTT

I have never heard anyone here mention one of these, or seen one in geocaching shops at events, but perhaps I was being unobservant. Plus I tend to go in with a shopping list and ignore much of the rest. Anyway, finding a cache is often unplanned. In fact, I don't carry any geocaching gear beyond a GPS and a camera, as I so rarely need to use any tools. Most can be found in the bush if needed. If it's known that a cache need a special tool, as one the other day needed a ladder, I will take one then. Most nanos don't need a special tool to get the log out, as most COs are thoughtful/intelligent enough to realise that a very tight log will be a problem *, and they don't leave a log this tight. It's only a few COs who cause a problem.

 

*Added: Or someone else has already trimmed the log :ph34r:.

Edited by Goldenwattle
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Thoughtful nano cache owners could glue a piece of toothpick to their log scroll. Here's the idea, I've seen this method used with button nanos too:

 

3356850a82a0fb26ec6d8359f21de24b.jpg

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2 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

I have never heard anyone here mention one of these, or seen one in geocaching shops at events, but perhaps I was being unobservant.

 

I'm pretty sure I saw them on the table at the recent Oz Geomuster mega, but I wasn't interested. Instead I bought some stuff I'm actually likely to use, including a Signal plush toy (to give away as the FTF prize at the next event I host), some geocaching pencils, cache label stickers (for proper-sized caches), and, of course, an autographed copy of Cully Long's puzzle book.

 

DSC_0031.jpg.90c13b8caa34f424c502384e6d7f0ca1.jpg

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3 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

 

I'm pretty sure I saw them on the table at the recent Oz Geomuster mega, but I wasn't interested. Instead I bought some stuff I'm actually likely to use, including a Signal plush toy (to give away as the FTF prize at the next event I host), some geocaching pencils, cache label stickers (for proper-sized caches), and, of course, an autographed copy of Cully Long's puzzle book.

Nice. At my last MEGA, from memory all I bought were some bison tubes, and some stickers and more bison tubes to fill an order for a friend.

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12 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

For those that live in America. I'm not planning to visit there any time soon.

 

Cotter pins are basic hardware fasteners - not specific to America.  You often see them holding wheels on wagons, wheelbarrows, motorcycles, etc.

 

First AU retailer found on internet.  I didn't look to see how many constituted a "quantity purchase", but the price starts at 0.11 Australian Dollar.

Cotter pins in Aussieland

 

As you say, not necessary, but I find it handy and lots quicker to roll up those pesky nano log sheets.  (Bend one leg of the pin out just a hair to ease removal after rolling.)  I keep mine on my key chain; slips right on and stays there until needed.

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14 hours ago, spacemule said:

A log roller is a standard tool that should be in every cacher's bag.  It is not obscure.

I´m even finding a "geocachers bag" obscure. I just want to cache along, where ever I am, where ever I go. Evereything more then a pen is image.png.26e8ef2c7ec1ae81746ddfc437caca8f.pngand I don´t want to carry a rucksack load of gatchets with me all the time. 

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15 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

Thoughtful nano cache owners could glue a piece of toothpick to their log scroll. Here's the idea, I've seen this method used with button nanos too:

 

3356850a82a0fb26ec6d8359f21de24b.jpg

 

I did this.
The log was a roll that fit into the end of a standard soda bottle top - 3/4 of an inch across? One inch?
The whole container was the open end of a soda bottle cut off at the flange, mounted. Screw the cap back on and it's sealed.  I've seen the same thing as a free container with TWO bottle tops glued together at the flanges, with a cap on either end.

 

I attached the top end of the log roll to a match that stuck out on both sides JUST BARELY, just like in that picture. Mine has shorter ends sticking out. Holding the ends of the matchstick between thumb and forefinger, you can loosely roll, then p-u-l-l, then roll, then p-u-l-l, etc. until it's tight enough.

Edited by TeamRabbitRun
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18 hours ago, Goldenwattle said:

In fact, I don't carry any geocaching gear beyond a GPS and a camera, as I so rarely need to use any tools.

Then you really can't complain when a TOTT is needed.  I finally bought a log roller after having many a "fun" time rolling small logs, I don't need it real often, but I makes life nicer when I do.

 

BTW, I hope you also carry a pen/pencil for signing... or can you find those in bush also? :D

 

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A log roller isn't a required tool.  Not unless it's a field puzzle that cannot be solved (at least as intended) without it.

 

I've seen some COs add the special tool attribute on nanos.  Honestly, maybe when it first started nanos could be seen as some kind of field puzzle, but they do not require (universally) a tool to access the log. I mean, you may as well mark every cache with the attribute because you can't sign the log without a writing utensil. =P

Log rollers are helpful tools, but not an intended required tool.

 

 

Tips for tiny containers (bisons and nanos)...

Extracting: Take off the cap, then holding the main part in your strong hand, point the opening to your other, then tap your wrists together, throwing the cache-hand down towards the palm of your other hand (not smashing the container into your palm, but giving it a jerked stop when your wrists meet), so your palm can catch the log as it pops out from the impact. I do this all the time and 95% of the time tweezers aren't needed. There are of course odd occasions when the rolled sheet is packed so tight, or the container rusted, so it won't come out with any sudden stopping.

 

For replacing: fold 1-2mm of the end of the sheet inwards to provide a starting central roll, compress it, and between the fingers of both hands holding each side of the sheet, roll it as tight as it'll go. Key point: Once it's rolled, hold the roll between your thumb and forefinger (this works even for fatfingers), placing as much pressure on the central stem as possible, then carefully pull the loose end of the sheet - the roll will cinch up, tighten, get thinner, and easier to slip back into the container (into the CAP whenever possible if it screws IN to the body!) where if necessary the log will then loosen and expand to the width of the container, relatively secure.

 

These two strategies have allowed me to almost never require another special tool either to retrieve or replace the sheet from tiny containers.  Tweezers and rollers make it easier, absolutely, but never required. :)

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6 hours ago, DerDiedler said:

I´m even finding a "geocachers bag" obscure. I just want to cache along, where ever I am, where ever I go. Evereything more then a pen is image.png.26e8ef2c7ec1ae81746ddfc437caca8f.pngand I don´t want to carry a rucksack load of gatchets with me all the time. 

I certainly agree a log roller isn't required -- or even that interesting -- but they're not really an effort to carry. I just have mine attached to my keychain, so it's always with me. Like The Jester, I rarely use it, though.

 

The toolkit I carry takes up about as much room as 3 pens (and two of the four tools in my toolkit are, in fact, backup pens), so it's always in my pocket. I've probably used the tweezers as much outside geocaching as while geocaching.

 

I do laugh at the people that consider an extendable ladder a TOTT. Not everyone in my area has one in the trunk, but there are several...

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