Deleting a regular member's log

[+bcducky]

Can I delete a non-paying members found it log if my caches are premium member cache only?

[+Kalkendotters]

Technically you can, but you should not do that.

The 'loophole' is specially created by HQ to allow non-premiums to log a premiumcache (e.g. familymembers)

Of course you can delete the log if they have not found the cache / did not write in the logboook.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Here's the Log Deletion article

 And here's the PMO cache article

 

Between the two of them, I'd say that it's a definite maybe ;-)   But unless the log isn't signed, you probably shouldn't. Would HQ back you? I dunno.

 

[+niraD]

1 hour ago, bcducky said:

Can I delete a non-paying members found it log if my caches are premium member cache only?

How do you know they weren't "paying members" when they found your cache, but in the meantime, they've let their premium membership lapse?

 

Or, as Kalkendotters indicated, they could be using a system for basic members to log PMO caches that Groundspeak has intentionally kept in place since the introduction of premium memberships.

 

I am not a lackey, and I don't play one on TV, but my guess is that if basic members actually found your PMO cache, and you deleted their logs, and they appealed to Groundspeak, then Groundspeak would reinstate their logs and lock them so you couldn't delete them again.

 

Setting a cache to PMO does not prevent basic members from finding or logging the cache. It just prevents basic members from viewing the cache description.

Edited May 1, 2019 by niraD

[+Isonzo Karst]

41 minutes ago, niraD said:

How do you know they weren't "paying members" when they found your cache, but in the meantime, they've let their premium membership lapse?

 

Good point. There are free one week Premium trials readily available, and some  one month Premium trials, as well as just paying for it, but stopping. 

Can't know if a cacher was Premium when they downloaded a listing, then membership lapsed, but gpx already in device.  Lots of way to get to the logging page; doesn't require Premium membership to do that. 

 

 

 

[+NYPaddleCacher]

1 hour ago, Isonzo Karst said:

Here's the Log Deletion article

 And here's the PMO cache article

 

Between the two of them, I'd say that it's a definite maybe ;-)   But unless the log isn't signed, you probably shouldn't. Would HQ back you? I dunno.

 

 

"Cache owners decide if their geocache can be found by all members or if they are only accessible to Premium members."

 

Technically, caches owner can only decide if the geocache *listing* is available to all or to a PM.    They can't prevent a basic member from geocaching with a PM, finding their cache, signing the log, and posting a found it log.   They *could* delete the log but I suspect that GS would reinstate the log if it went to appeals.  Anyone have anecdotal evidence that suggests otherwise?

 

 

 

[fendmar]

2 hours ago, bcducky said:

Can I delete a non-paying members found it log if my caches are premium member cache only?

Why would you want to?

[+cerberus1]

7 hours ago, bcducky said:

Can I delete a non-paying members found it log if my caches are premium member cache only?

 

I guess you could, but why would you want to ?     

If their signatures on the log showing they found it (usually with a PM),  to me,  it'd just seem arrogant.

 - A  "You  can't play here.  Stick with your own kind."  kinda thing.  This is supposed to be a family-friendly hobby.

Besides the "backdoor/loophole" methods to log a cache when with a premium member, the site gives free temporary PMs, and during a promotion a short time ago, gave all basic members a PM for the promotion.

Any info could have been loaded at any of those times, and your cache found when a basic member again.  Simple.

That's not their fault...

I've seen it judged both ways when a CO deems basic members unworthy to log their caches, and it goes to HQ for a decision.

Do you really feel it's worth the hassle?  Do you really want to be "that guy..." ?    

[+The A-Team]

Didn't we go over this a year or two ago, when the owner of a PMO cache deleted a non-PM log and claimed that the guidelines supported him? IIRC, HQ ruled that Basic members are allowed to log PMO caches, but failed to modify the guidelines/Help Center to reflect this policy.

[+Isonzo Karst]

13 minutes ago, cerberus1 said:

Besides the "backdoor/loophole" methods to log a cache when with a premium member

 

Site provides a logging link, nothing backdoor/loophole about it.  When a basic member opens a PMO cache page, they see the Premium upsell.

Back on their profile, the list of "Recently Viewed Caches" shows that PMO cache, with a functional Log it link. 

 

[+dprovan]

8 hours ago, bcducky said:

Can I delete a non-paying members found it log if my caches are premium member cache only?

If you mean to ask, "Am I allowed to delete found it logs on my premium caches for no other reason than the person filing the log is not a premium member?", then the answer is, "No."

[+IceColdUK]

44 minutes ago, Isonzo Karst said:

 

Site provides a logging link, nothing backdoor/loophole about it.  When a basic member opens a PMO cache page, they see the Premium upsell.

Back on their profile, the list of "Recently Viewed Caches" shows that PMO cache, with a functional Log it link. 

 

 

Wouldn’t it be nice if this was documented?  (Not holding my breath...)

[joesdolphins]

No I’m a premium member if go caching with my daughter who is not I premium member she found the cache using my gpx file she can log it but not view it.

[+Hynz]

11 hours ago, Isonzo Karst said:

When a basic member opens a PMO cache page, they see the Premium upsell.

Back on their profile, the list of "Recently Viewed Caches" shows that PMO cache, with a functional Log it link. 

I just tested this and must report that the link is *not* functional.

[+Isonzo Karst]

1 hour ago, Hynz said:

I just tested this and must report that the link is *not* functional.

Interesting, it WAS functional as of 23 April   log by Basic Account on that date https://coord.info/GLYFG68M  

My player account owns a PMO Mystery GC81XHV     https://coord.info/GC81XHV

I logged into my Basic Member account, looked at it, then used the "log it" link from the Recently Viewed caches list to log it.

A quick fix ;-)

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Isonzo Karst

[+IceColdUK]

1 minute ago, Isonzo Karst said:

Interesting, it WAS functional as of 23 April   https://coord.info/GLYFG68M

My player account owns a PMO Mystery GC81XHV

I logged into my Basic Member account, looked at it, then used the "log it" link from the Recently Viewed caches list to log it.

A quick fix ?

 

 

Well, that’s disappointing.  Are GS deliberately trying to make it harder for basic members to log PMO caches?  And if so, why?

[+rapotek]

42 minutes ago, Isonzo Karst said:

Interesting, it WAS functional as of 23 April   log by Basic Account on that date https://coord.info/GLYFG68M  

My player account owns a PMO Mystery GC81XHV     https://coord.info/GC81XHV

I logged into my Basic Member account, looked at it, then used the "log it" link from the Recently Viewed caches list to log it.

A quick fix ?

 

The link itself is still functional, the "click" on the link is not (and was not then), because it is blocked by the page itself by browser script. Just choose "Open the link in the next tab/window" from the link context menu or copy&paste the link address, enter and you are in.

[+Isonzo Karst]

@rapotek, thank you again.

You're correct. I didn't recall that I'd right clicked it - open in new tab. But that does still work.  I suspect this is more of a bug than a feature. Or, per the terms of use, falls under, "undocumented features, design errors".

Edited May 2, 2019 by Isonzo Karst
image upload

[Gabeman26]

I've found Premium caches with a basic membership, just had to look harder!

[+kunarion]

3 hours ago, Gabeman26 said:

I've found Premium caches with a basic membership, just had to look harder!

 

I don't think it's a great idea to delete legitimate Find logs.  But if a CO is in my mind unfairly deleting my logs, I shall hunt no more of his caches, or at least won't log anything on them.  Just like the TBs I find where the owner requires "No Discover Logs", where I discovered it in the wrong cache Inventory, its attached item has changed, and I took nice group photos of TBs I intended to post.  Cool.  I'll log the others.  No log for you.

 

Selecting "PMO" for a Geocache actually does not affect the physical cache placement at all.  It remains in its spot and can be found by anyone, even non-Geocachers. The web site changes, but there is no mechanism for the web site to modify anything about the cache hide.  So when the Help Center says that PMO caches "are only accessible to Premium members", this can only mean that the cache's web page shows no info to aid basic members.  It would be logical to assume that the ability to log the PMO cache would then also be unavailable, but this is not the case.  It's tougher to find the log link, but there is a link.

 

It seems that TPTB aren't working on clearing up the confusion, and that's probably because PM is sold with the benefit that "PMO caches are only accessible to Premium members", and there are too many Geocachers who have no firm grasp on reality, who insist that the cache itself must have changed into PMO. Whether these persons ever could understand that PMO affects only the listing itself, I don't know.  But it remains confusing to Geocachers, see all the threads about this.  Although I wish the Help Center was more clear on many points, the idea that "a PMO cache is inaccessible to all but other PMs" didn't confuse me in the least, including the capability for anyone to log it.  But the cache stays the same.  Try it:  Stand next to your cache, select it to "PMO", and watch the cache when you submit the change.  Nothing changes with the cache.  At all.  It's still as "accessible" as always.  If you think the test is invalid because you are PM, try it with a Basic member standing there.  The cache does not change, regardless.

 

Edited May 18, 2019 by kunarion

[+GeoElmo6000]

A little off topic, but sort of related:

 

I'm still confused with what basic members can access via the app and the website these days, compared to making a cache PMO.  For example, if I create a 5/5 non-PMO cache, can a basic member access that on either the website or app, or is it essentially the same as PMO?

[+rapotek]

3 minutes ago, GeoElmo6000 said:

A little off topic, but sort of related:

 

I'm still confused with what basic members can access via the app and the website these days, compared to making a cache PMO.  For example, if I create a 5/5 non-PMO cache, can a basic member access that on either the website or app, or is it essentially the same as PMO?

A basic member can see the listing of each non-premium cache listing published in the website, regardless of D/T settings. But as far as I know (I do not use the official app), caches with higher (i.e. more difficult) D/T settings are not available in the app.

[Keystone]

See this Help Center article for a comparison of features available on the official apps for basic members vs. premium members.  Basic members are limited to caches rated D2/T2 and below.  Third party partner applications do not have that limit, but they do limit basic members to three caches per day, under the API.