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L0ne.R

This is the kind of cache I like

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Isn't this a beauty? An authentic Lock & Lock, "regular" size, dry contents, a logbook (not sheet) and a pen. To top it off a nice walk in the woods. 123 visitors and I'm the only one that gave this cache a favorite point.

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1 hour ago, L0ne.R said:

Isn't this a beauty? An authentic Lock & Lock, "regular" size, dry contents, a logbook (not sheet) and a pen. To top it off a nice walk in the woods. 123 visitors and I'm the only one that gave this cache a favorite point.

This is just a pity, but it's built inside the system. You need something special to distinguish. I can not say that favorite system is failure but it is far from optimum. I would like to give favorites to every cache I like. The problem is that most caches I visit are those which I like.

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This style of container, well at least the New Zealand made Sistema equivalent we have here, is probably the most common I encounter, either with the spiral-bound notepad or a small hardcover notebook, although I prefer to leave a pencil rather than a pen as pens quickly dry out and become useless in our hot climate. The one I'm holding here was hidden in 2010 and is still in pristine condition.

To get a favourite from me, it'd need to have something extra to make it especially memorable, be it location, theme, adventure reaching it, or the climax of a particularly enjoyable puzzle or multi.

DSC_0925.jpg

Edited by barefootjeff
Grammar
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51 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

This style of container, well at least the New Zealand made Sistema equivalent we have here, is probably the most common I encounter, either with the spiral-bound notepad or a small hardcover notebook, although I prefer to leave a pencil rather than a pen as pens quickly dry out and become useless in our hot climate. The one I'm holding here was hidden in 2010 and still in pristine condition.

To get a favourite from me, it'd need to have something extra to make it especially memorable, be it location, theme, adventure reaching it, or the climax of a particularly enjoyable puzzle or multi.

^This

Caches like the one in the OP are very common around here. Heck, most of my own caches have all of the same features, right down to the Staples mini-pen and being hidden in the woods (though I camo-paint mine, rather than camo-tape). I wouldn't even consider giving a FP just because a container looked like that, because it's really just a run-of-the-mill cache container in a typical area. There'd need to be some additional redeeming value to get a FP from me.

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52 minutes ago, barefootjeff said:

This style of container, well at least the New Zealand made Sistema equivalent we have here, is probably the most common I encounter, either with the spiral-bound notepad or a small hardcover notebook, although I prefer to leave a pencil rather than a pen as pens quickly dry out and become useless in our hot climate. The one I'm holding here was hidden in 2010 and still in pristine condition.

To get a favourite from me, it'd need to have something extra to make it especially memorable, be it location, theme, adventure reaching it, or the climax of a particularly enjoyable puzzle or multi.

I agree.  A container alone wouldn't get a favorite from me.  It would also have to depend on that "nice walk" as well.   Lately, because of the mediocre  containers (black-taped pill bottles everywhere...,) that rare walk is what matters most to me, with the container secondary. 

Not just a hot climate, we've seen so many rusted, deformed pens with exploded barrels that we prefer golf pencils for most our hides.  Surprised they're fine in Canada.  Sharp, regular-length pencils  placed in with the log (we don't do that) ruin our freezer bags used to separate stuff as well.

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38 minutes ago, The A-Team said:

^This

Caches like the one in the OP are very common around here. Heck, most of my own caches have all of the same features, right down to the Staples mini-pen and being hidden in the woods (though I camo-paint mine, rather than camo-tape). I wouldn't even consider giving a FP just because a container looked like that, because it's really just a run-of-the-mill cache container in a typical area. There'd need to be some additional redeeming value to get a FP from me.

Those containers in your local forests, are they often quality containers? Not throw-away ziploc  containers, or aspirin jars/pill bottles, or leaky dollar store containers? The owners actually spent more than a buck, and the container and contents are generally in decent shape? If that's the norm, I'm jealous. The above example is rather rare for me--an all-round good geocaching experience from beginning to end, so I give those rare finds an FP. I've got 50 FPs in reserve. 

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47 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

Not throw-away ziploc  containers, or aspirin jars/pill bottles, or leaky dollar store containers? The owners actually spent more than a buck, and the container and contents are generally in decent shape?

Just back from the local supermarket and the smallest Sistemas (200ml) come in a 3-pack for $6, while the medium-sized 380ml ones that are a good size to slip in under a rock ledge are $4 each, so they don't exactly break the bank. The easy availability, low price and long-lasting waterproof seal is probably why these are the popular choice of cachers around here.

One can get a bit more creative with them too. My most recent hide, a Star Wars themed puzzle, uses one as a "backpack" for the Jedi mistress Skye Lukewarmer. Her hideout inside a rock cavity high on an outcrop in a dry sclerophyll forest won't get wet so the holes I drilled for the cable ties shouldn't be a problem, but in any case the logbook is a "stone paper" waterproof one sold in the local stationery chain under the "Tradie" brand, again something durable and low cost.

SkyeSistema.jpg

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One of my friends has recently been using these fishing tackle boxes as a regular-sized cache container. Rugged, waterproof and easily tucked in under a rock ledge at a suitably scenic spot. This one, at the end of a steep T4 hike with a beautiful panoramic valley view, did get an FP from me.

DSC_0941.jpg

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This is one of the kinds of caches I like. Or rather, it's one stage of one of the kinds of caches I like:

084b0763-9419-4691-8eb7-4bfff7b68469_l.j

IIRC, the final was a micro. It's still a favorite.

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2 hours ago, barefootjeff said:

Just back from the local supermarket and the smallest Sistemas (200ml) come in a 3-pack for $6, while the medium-sized 380ml ones that are a good size to slip in under a rock ledge are $4 each, so they don't exactly break the bank. The easy availability, low price and long-lasting waterproof seal is probably why these are the popular choice of cachers around here.

One can get a bit more creative with them too. My most recent hide, a Star Wars themed puzzle, uses one as a "backpack" for the Jedi mistress Skye Lukewarmer. Her hideout inside a rock cavity high on an outcrop in a dry sclerophyll forest won't get wet so the holes I drilled for the cable ties shouldn't be a problem, but in any case the logbook is a "stone paper" waterproof one sold in the local stationery chain under the "Tradie" brand, again something durable and low cost.

SkyeSistema.jpg

That would get a favorite point from me, for the LOL creativity and because it's swag size, a good container and everything is in good shape. 

Edited by L0ne.R
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Haven't heard of sistema.  Looks light enough, and might be worth a look for the boats/yaks.  :)

The rarely accurate small or regular containers we're seeing lately seem to be some variant of plano stowaways or flambeau tufftainers.  Sometimes the real thing.  We haven't seen lock n locks for a while now, and not sure if it's cost, of just hard to find. 

We did a product test on stowaways a couple years ago in the yard (a cabela's watertight is there now near a vole nest), and found they held up better for us than LNL in open/close tests and whenever I think about it access in cold.   I think it's because of the metal snap hinged clamps instead of just bending plastic.  Still have more 30/50 ammo cans than we'll ever send out, so after the cabela's finished, we're done testing plastics unless a good, light one comes out for the boats. 

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22 hours ago, L0ne.R said:

Those containers in your local forests, are they often quality containers? Not throw-away ziploc  containers, or aspirin jars/pill bottles, or leaky dollar store containers? The owners actually spent more than a buck, and the container and contents are generally in decent shape? If that's the norm, I'm jealous. The above example is rather rare for me--an all-round good geocaching experience from beginning to end, so I give those rare finds an FP. I've got 50 FPs in reserve. 

Yes, the majority of the caches hidden in the woods (and I mean in the woods, not just in some trees beside the road) here are authentic Lock 'n' Locks. If I had to put a number on it, I'd say 75%. The rest include knock-off Lock 'n' Lock-style containers, preforms, and various other container types of varying quality. Even in the more urban and suburban areas, reused grocery store food containers and thin-walled Ziploc containers aren't very common. We're in a temperate rainforest, so I think people consider the quality of their containers a bit more carefully.

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I walked a trail in a National Forest,  found a few caches.  Gave out several favorite points, on some my point was the one and only.  All caches were ammo cans, all had been checked and maintained after the major hurricane.  Good coords, good condition, hints (if any) useful, and in nice spots, mostly far enough off trail to show you something you'd not have seen just walking the trail.  Where water flow might be an issue were all tethered. Very well done.

I've abandoned the use of Lock n Locks and similar gasket style plastic containers.  The  gasket develops a film and wicks water. Or, if it's sun exposed, the tabs break off.  I had a large number of them out,  down to two. In the Humidity State they're only good for maybe 2 years.  Snap down  lids (Tupperware, Rubbermaid)  work as well or better.

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7 hours ago, Isonzo Karst said:

I've abandoned the use of Lock n Locks and similar gasket style plastic containers.  The  gasket develops a film and wicks water. Or, if it's sun exposed, the tabs break off.  I had a large number of them out,  down to two. In the Humidity State they're only good for maybe 2 years.  Snap down  lids (Tupperware, Rubbermaid)  work as well or better.

I sorta agree.  But we started with Tupperware, as that was the "quality" container of choice at the time. Heck, tee shirts joked about it and satellites.  :) 

First year moldy messes even in protected areas had us go to Lock n Locks for small, and all ammo cans for regular.  After a Winter or two, most tabs would be cracked, some missing.

A large mailbox that should protect the two regular (one kinda large) Lock n Locks inside it, keeps 'em dry, but one container has a broken corner (though maybe dropped ) and another has a tab broken off.  Left them like that, as the mailbox would protect  just freezer bags left there as well.

The only issue we ever had with any ammo can was stolen  "relocated" when the "Intro" muggle app came out years ago.  :D

Edited by cerberus1

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23 hours ago, The A-Team said:

Yes, the majority of the caches hidden in the woods (and I mean in the woods, not just in some trees beside the road) here are authentic Lock 'n' Locks. If I had to put a number on it, I'd say 75%. The rest include knock-off Lock 'n' Lock-style containers, preforms, and various other container types of varying quality. Even in the more urban and suburban areas, reused grocery store food containers and thin-walled Ziploc containers aren't very common. We're in a temperate rainforest, so I think people consider the quality of their containers a bit more carefully.

This is a real Tupperware cache I found  in Ontario, note the embossed snowflake logo  other Tupperware caches i’ve found here have been in a state of wet/moldy decay  there’s no gasket in the lid. Authentic Lock n Lock are my go-to container of choice for quality silicone gasket, tabs that stay on for about 3 years  and variety of sizes.   

94fc372e-8b36-4453-9301-2ffdbc80599d.jpg

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18 hours ago, cerberus1 said:

The only issue we ever had with any ammo can was stolen  "relocated" when the "Intro" muggle app came out years ago.

Mine get taken by hunters, though i've lost more to fires and floods then theft. I don't think the intro app has  an issue as far as relocation, ^_^ though one ammo can in a State Park I made PMO after having to make the drive and hike to CLOSE IT 3 times in one caching season.

I'm using ammo cans, preforms and wide mouth water bottles pretty much exclusively now.  Some pill bottles hold up really well, and some don't.  I haven't paid attention to which is which, I just know there's some old ones out, doing fine.

 

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When it comes to good geocaches, I'm torn between quality of the contents and how well it was hidden. I've gone out geocaching and found some geocaches where the water was wet, no writing instruments and no geoswag inside, but it was in a really good hiding spot and I had fun finding it so I don't really care. Whereas I've found other geocaches that were pretty much in the open but I was able to write in the log book and swap out some cool geoswag, I found them equally as fun. I guess it depends why you're geocaching, but it's always great when they're harder to find and there's a bunch of geoswag in there. Makes it feel more rewarding :)

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You would like my caches then....most important thing for me is the quality of the log. I use the free template with the official geocache logo/time/date already included on the paper. And of course the log goes in a ziplock bag

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In my experience it's really the good Lock'n'Locks and ammo cans that are the most durable of the 'consumer' containers. Obviously you can pay an arm and a leg for a top quality outdoors container to hide, but spending more is always a risk. Knock-off containers are always worse. Far too many basic tupperware with no seal or locks, and they always go downhill quick. doubled containers make a huge difference though, even with low quality containers.

It's also amazing to see how many people think wrapping a log in a baggie, not sealed, protects it from moisture. =/

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6 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

It's also amazing to see how many people think wrapping a log in a baggie, not sealed, protects it from moisture. =/

I'm starting to see this more often around here too. It seems odd to go to the effort of putting the log back in the bag, but then suddenly become too lazy to seal it up. Assuming the bag is still intact, I always squeeze as much air out of it as possible and reseal it.

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Ditto, and I want to get in a better habit of having baggies with me all the time just in case. Too many bags have ripped seals, or a torn seam (and yet, why do we still try to seal the top? lol)

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I use mostly authentic Lock&Locks. I don't put the logbook in a baggie. I have used a lot of 100ml Lock&Locks  and those especially have trouble with baggies. When I do a maintenance check, I sometimes find the logbooks are placed in a sandwich baggie. The problem with that is the big baggie needs to be folded and tucked. Big baggies get caught in the seal. On a couple of occasions I discovered part of the baggie hanging out and the contents swimming in water, the logbook soaked.

 

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Yeah, if you use a baggie, be aware of the size of the container, the size of the logbook, and the size of its baggie.

One good benefit of keeping the log in a baggie though is that it also provides a protective option for TBs if needed. Not the best solution, but it's certainly nicer to open a container and have attention drawn to the fact that not everything in it is "swag" but something is important and ideally wants to move; made distinct from the rest just like the logbook.  ie, open a cache, look for the logbook- I won't miss the TB.

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52 minutes ago, L0ne.R said:

I use mostly authentic Lock&Locks. I don't put the logbook in a baggie.

I agree.  We have large freezer bags that only separate the log and trackables from swag in ammo cans, and the couple large LNLs left, but we don't believe any baggie helps.  If it did, we wouldn't see damp caches (where the issue really is) with soaked logs inside that "sealed baggie".  :) 

A micro we still have has folks regularly put our Rite in Rain log in a baggie ... in a matchstick safe.  We've never put a baggie in it, it's made to store loose wooden matches.  Sheesh...   All my bags have a matchstick safe (even my little camera bag)  with loose wooden matches in it. 

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20 hours ago, The A-Team said:

Assuming the bag is still intact, I always squeeze as much air out of it as possible and reseal it.

I try to leave a little air in the bag when I can.  In theory, if the log is slightly over-pressurized, water is less likely to find its way in.  That's how the NBC (nuclear, biological, chemical) protection system on tanks work: over-pressurize the inside, and things are going to leak out, not in.

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What about putting a regular sized cache (plastic lock style) inside of a large cache. And inside the regular one have the log inside a Ziploc bag, and put that bag inside another bag. Then cover the entire inside (swag and log etc) with some sort of layover sheet of some kind 

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17 minutes ago, TheMagnetAngler said:

What about putting a regular sized cache (plastic lock style) inside of a large cache. And inside the regular one have the log inside a Ziploc bag, and put that bag inside another bag. Then cover the entire inside (swag and log etc) with some sort of layover sheet of some kind 

I don't think the zipper lock bags add anything of value in this situation. Putting the log inside a waterproof container, inside the main (waterproof) cache container can help if the main cache container ends up leaking. But the zipper lock bags don't really offer any more protection. The zipper won't remain waterproof for more than a few open-close cycles, and if one bag is folded to fit inside the other, then the zipper will be compromised immediately.

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2 hours ago, TheMagnetAngler said:

What about putting a regular sized cache (plastic lock style)

Stop there. That's all you need. A regular sized plastic Lock [tab] style cache (aka a quality Lock&Lock). It will protect the contents much better than any baggie. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, TheMagnetAngler said:

What about putting a regular sized cache (plastic lock style) inside of a large cache. And inside the regular one have the log inside a Ziploc bag, and put that bag inside another bag. Then cover the entire inside (swag and log etc) with some sort of layover sheet of some kind 

We have seen smaller containers inside another bigger one (for the log only) sorta work with some containers that have issues, mostly with so many handling them (visitation).  Seems to stay intact/dry longer.   One we know uses a pill bottle with a film can inside for the log.  They could have skipped all that just by placing one decent container.  We used to have one with condensation issues,  and no longer have a desire to place hides we have to "rig" to keep maintained...

Anyway...  A couple layers of plastic will act as a mold magnet, retaining moisture  in-between the layers,  rather than the vapor barrier you'd like to see.    All that work, and no way to know whether anyone's "correctly" replacing it anyway.  Some have a tough-enough time to get people to simply close the lid.  Invest in one, good container (I'd use a Plano Stowaway today, if still using plastics) and be done with it.   :)

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Depending on weather, an outer less-weatherproof container that holds a higher quality container can be a great benefit. Especially in snowy areas. The outer container takes the brunt of the weathering while not having to be moisture proof (and actually that helps keep the air cycled) while the inner one can be more tuned to battling intricate weathering like moisture.  So in my experience, a film can in a PB jar is actually much better than either on its own. Two instead of one also serves as a nice backup system. One fails, the other gives a bit of time to protect the log before the other is replaced/fixed.

Still, of course, one high quality containe is always better for a longer life. :) (just much more expensive)

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24 minutes ago, thebruce0 said:

Depending on weather, an outer less-weatherproof container that holds a higher quality container can be a great benefit. Especially in snowy areas. The outer container takes the brunt of the weathering while not having to be moisture proof (and actually that helps keep the air cycled) while the inner one can be more tuned to battling intricate weathering like moisture.

I've seen this work well for kayak caches. The outer container takes the physical abuse, but is not waterproof. The inner container is waterproof, and is protected from physical abuse by the outer container.

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2 hours ago, thebruce0 said:

Depending on weather, an outer less-weatherproof container that holds a higher quality container can be a great benefit. Especially in snowy areas. The outer container takes the brunt of the weathering while not having to be moisture proof (and actually that helps keep the air cycled) while the inner one can be more tuned to battling intricate weathering like moisture.  So in my experience, a film can in a PB jar is actually much better than either on its own. Two instead of one also serves as a nice backup system. One fails, the other gives a bit of time to protect the log before the other is replaced/fixed.

Still, of course, one high quality containe is always better for a longer life. :) (just much more expensive)

Personally, if someone's going to use a PB jar I wish they'd put a  gasket in the lid (rubber or fun foam) to help make it watertight. And then I wish they'd use a logbook and not a log scroll. It's so nice to be able to write something in a logbook. I know that most people don't take the time and barely care about a log, but a few of us like the experience of a logbook.

Plus film canisters inside a jar take up a lot of space, For those of us who like signature items, trackables and swag there's little room left in the jar. Often less then 100ml of space.

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