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Release Notes (Website only) - April 10, 2017

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Release Notes (Website only) - April 10, 2017

 

With this release, we have added Send to Garmin. We teamed up with Garmin to create the best experience possible for Garmin GPS players. With this feature, Premium members can now send a list of caches to their Garmin GPS device with the click of a button.

 

Here’s how it works:

 


     
  1. Download the latest version of Garmin Express.
  2. Search for geocaches you want to find.
  3. Add those caches to a list.
  4. Visit My Lists.
  5. Select Send to Garmin in the (...) menu.
  6. Unplug and go geocaching!

 

Which Garmin devices work with the Send to Garmin feature?

This feature should work with any geocaching-enabled Garmin GPS device supported by Garmin Express. We do not have an exhaustive lists of all devices. However, our testing indicated many Garmin GPS devices manufactured up to 10 years ago are supported.

Can you use this functionality to send geocaches to other GPS brands?

At this time Garmin is the only GPS provider that collaborated with us on the “Send to” feature. We welcome other partners in the handheld market to work with us on similar features, but currently have no concrete plans.

 

Ben H from HQ’s Product Team is watching the thread to answer questions whenever possible.

 

Any posts in this thread should relate to features in this release. Please direct unrelated comments to other appropriate threads. Thanks!

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Posted (edited)

Domo!!!

 

Wow! This is great. Works like it supposed to, I guess.

Just one thing: I wish you could be able to choose to where to store the Geocache data on, as right now the default is only onto the Garmin GPS' main memory, no questions asked.

I really wish you could choose to load it onto the additional Micro-SD memory card.

 

Thanks,

 

~ Dr.MORO

 

PS: BTW, I am a Mac, and my trusty treasure hunting device is a Garmin Oregon 450.

Edited by Dr.MORO
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Cool ! Thanks. :)

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Posted (edited)

Neat feature, well done.

 

It would be pretty nice if we could have a "Send to GPS" button on the search result page (and the single cache pages as well).

 

The underlying script could:

1. create a temp bookmark list

2. add the selected caches to that list

3. send the caches to the Garmin Express selected device

4. delete the temp bm list.

 

Happy Coding

Hans

 

NB: A corresponding "GPX File" button would also be nice to have.

Edited by HHL
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Posted (edited)

It seems that those send GPX files are missing the UTF-8 declaration in the new schema.

(We see this fault in the GeoTour GPX files as well).

 

Hans

Edited by HHL
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Posted (edited)

[*]Add those caches to a list.

 

Oh "wonderful" - that means the method is only usable for Premium members while the old send to gps was usable for all cachers

Edited by cezanne
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The Garmin option is still present when clicking the "Send to My GPS" button. Shouldn't this be removed, or at least updated to point to instructions on using the replacement method?

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Posted (edited)

The Garmin option is still present when clicking the "Send to My GPS" button. Shouldn't this be removed, or at least updated to point to instructions on using the replacement method?

 

No it shouldn't be removed right now as it still works with some browser/OS combinations and is the only method usable by basic members and owners of other GPS units not produced by Garmin.

Edited by cezanne
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I tried accessing the new method on two computers that don't have Garmin Express installed, and was presented with a box that says "Garmin Express not detected". This is to be expected, and I then wanted to clear this warning, but the "X" at the top-right of that message box didn't do anything. The only way I could get rid of it was to refresh the page. I found the "X" to be non-functional in IE11 and Firefox 52.0.2, but worked as expected in Chrome 57.0.2987.133.

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Posted (edited)

The Garmin option is still present when clicking the "Send to My GPS" button. Shouldn't this be removed, or at least updated to point to instructions on using the replacement method?

No it shouldn't be removed right now as it still works with some browser/OS combinations and is the only method usable by basic members.

Yeah, I initially missed in the announcement that the new method is for Premiums only. That's an unfortunate move that will have some pretty big repercussions. It will make GPSr caching much more difficult for Basic members and make them less likely to continue using this listing service. I expect many will vote with their feet when they find out they're being forced to sign up for Premium to continue doing what they did for free for so many years.

 

At the very least, there should be a warning added to "Send to My GPS" about the browser issues and pointing to the new method as an alternative.

Edited by The A-Team
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Posted (edited)

First at all: Thanks a lot for this! Finally a useful and recommended feature for the users! We love things like this ;)

While still using the "Garmin Communicator" in combination with the "checkCompability"-Plugin, I hope I will be able to remove this after some testing.

 

First impressions:

- works fine with Win10 an GPS64s ... no problems

- works only with the new lists. Okay, it 's consequent ...

- would be fine, being able to do the same or a single (gpx-)download from a listings/quick info on map/search results

 

- IMPORTANT: Please clean up your GPX Files. It seems there are some inconsequences (i.e. used by geotours: http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=343763&st=0&p=5646849&hl=xml&fromsearch=1entry5646849 )

 

/Thx a lot!

/st3phan

Edited by st3phan
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Yeah, I initially missed in the announcement that the new method is for Premiums only.

 

They could have mentioned it, right. They also could have replied to questions raised in the forefront.

 

That's an unfortunate move that will have some pretty big repercussions. It will make GPSr caching much more difficult for Basic members and make them less likely to continue using this listing service. I expect many will vote with their feet when they find out they're being forced to sign up for Premium to continue doing what they did for free for so many years.

 

It's unfortunate indeed and it does not fit in my eyes to Jeremy's old promise which was not so much a money thing in my eyes but played a much larger role when it came to increase the credibility for the claims that what was done with respect to copyright and similar issues was done with the wellbeing of the community in mind.

 

And the interesting thing is that it seems that the restriction does not come from a new system or a new tool that is available only to PMs. Like the watch list is available to all members it seems conceivable to have created a new list type transfer list - it would have sufficed to make one such list available to basic members. Of course those do not have any right to request anything - it would have been a nice gesture however and it would have be in line with the old promise.

I wonder however whether the new president still feels commited to the old promise anyhow.

 

At the very least, there should be a warning added to "Send to My GPS" about the browser issues and pointing to the new method as an alternative.

 

Yes, that would make sense.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah, I initially missed in the announcement that the new method is for Premiums only.

 

They could have mentioned it, right. They also could have replied to questions raised in the forefront.

[...]

 

GS actually did mention it. Open your eyes. rolleyes.gif

 

[...] With this feature, Premium members can now send a list of caches to their Garmin GPS device with the click of a button.

[...]

Edited by HHL
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Posted (edited)

Yeah, I initially missed in the announcement that the new method is for Premiums only.

 

They could have mentioned it, right. They also could have replied to questions raised in the forefront.

[...]

 

GS actually did mention it. Open your eyes. rolleyes.gif

 

[...] With this feature' date=' [b']Premium members[/b] can now send a list of caches to their Garmin GPS device with the click of a button.

[...]

 

That could just as well be understood in reference to "with a click of a button" or that a series of caches can be sent in one step. I would not mind 10 clicks or whatever and I was fine with sending each cache manually for years.

 

The announcement did not make it very explicit that basic members have no option at all.

Edited by cezanne
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The announcement did not make it very explicit that basic members have no option at all.

 

Of course they have! They have the option to become premium members :laughing:

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Posted (edited)

The announcement did not make it very explicit that basic members have no option at all.

 

Of course they have! They have the option to become premium members :laughing:

 

But then they do not stay basic members.

 

Seriously, with all the disadvantages which come along with that - if GS wants to go that way they should at least offer different levels of membership. It's a different type of thing to pay for certain services and to support a company/business for an activuty which should belong to the community. The first is purely a financial thing, the latter is a sort of political statement too.

 

In my area some of the very popular caches are owned by basic members. What will come next? Maybe a new cache hiding page that needs something which is available only to premium members? If the goal is to force almost everyone into premium membership that noone will be able to keep an eye on what is offered to basic members and whether geocaching stays open.

Edited by cezanne
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And the interesting thing is that it seems that the restriction does not come from a new system or a new tool that is available only to PMs. Like the watch list is available to all members it seems conceivable to have created a new list type transfer list - it would have sufficed to make one such list available to basic members. Of course those do not have any right to request anything - it would have been a nice gesture however and it would have be in line with the old promise.

I wonder however whether the new president still feels commited to the old promise anyhow.

 

I suspect this is another step toward the replacement of Pocket Queries, which of course, is a PM tool. It is unfortunate that more and more items are being restricted for the basic member but the continuing push for more premium members may be a financial necessity.

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Posted (edited)

I suspect this is another step toward the replacement of Pocket Queries, which of course, is a PM tool. It is unfortunate that more and more items are being restricted for the basic member but the continuing push for more premium members may be a financial necessity.

 

That does not sound plausible to me. I believe that from the financial point of view more could be earned by not chasing away cachers that paid the PM-fee for years and stopped doing so by changes in the activity. The pure app crowd will never stay very long.

 

They also should never forget that the most important ingredient of geocaching are still the geocaches hidden and maintained by the cachers out there.

Edited by cezanne
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The announcement did not make it very explicit that basic members have no option at all.

 

Of course they have! They have the option to become premium members

There is still an option of loading caches manually, which shouldn't be that much of an issue really, unless one is hitting powertrails.

I believe that also keeps the promise of "free" in this hobby, and still affords a higher D/T and all cache types (other than pmo) than the app.

Using both GPSr and an app, looks like a plan too (to me). :)

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Posted (edited)

There is still an option of loading caches manually,

 

No there isn't with the new system or do you mean typing in all the waypoints manually? That could be 30 and more points per cache. I would not call that loading then however.

 

The hiders of such caches have listed them on this site with being aware that downloading the waypoints was available to all cachers (of course except the case of PM-only caches).

Edited by cezanne
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There is still an option of loading caches manually,

 

No there isn't with the new system or do you mean typing in all the waypoints manually? That could be 30 and more points per cache. I would not call that loading then however.

 

The hiders of such caches have listed them on this site with being aware that downloading the waypoints was available to all cachers (of course except the case of PM-only caches).

I've entered coords in a GPSr manually since I started, using a notepad for hints and things.

 

Never used gsak, and only used a pq a couple times.

We've used "send to gps" for the few times we're with others, caching a large area.

Hasn't worked well in some time.

The only "premium" anything I use on this site is notifications.

So, I think I'd do fine as a basic member, and proved that for two years. :)

 

We remain pms as a thanks to the site, and help offset some of the site's basic functions for basic members.

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I've entered coords in a GPSr manually since I started, using a notepad for hints and things.

 

I guess you would not have enjoyed doing that for caches with many waypoints as many of mine in particular the multi caches I have hidden in recent years knowing that the waypoints can be downloaded.

 

Hints and things do not play a role for me as I could not enter them into my GPS but that's not necessary for me anyway - I prefer to have them on paper anyhow.

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There is still an option of loading caches manually,

No there isn't with the new system or do you mean typing in all the waypoints manually? That could be 30 and more points per cache.

The majority of the world outside of your area doesn't have caches like this. There may be the rare cache that has more than a few additional waypoints, but the vast majority have none or one additional waypoint.

 

Technically, cerberus1 is right that as long as Basic members can still access cache listings in a browser, then caching can still technically be done for free. However, the functionality that makes this type of caching viable is slowly being eroded away.

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I've entered coords in a GPSr manually since I started, using a notepad for hints and things.

 

I guess you would not have enjoyed doing that for caches with many waypoints as many of mine in particular the multi caches I have hidden in recent years knowing that the waypoints can be downloaded.

 

Hints and things do not play a role for me as I could not enter them into my GPS but that's not necessary for me anyway - I prefer to have them on paper anyhow.

We've had no issue with multis and most mystery caches.

The few that had visible additional waypoints on the cache page, I simply entered them sometime before leaving.

Kept it simple, and never saw that as a hindrance. :)

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Posted (edited)

 

The majority of the world outside of your area doesn't have caches like this. There may be the rare cache that has more than a few additional waypoints, but the vast majority have none or one additional waypoint.

 

At least I have come across quite a number of longer hiking and biking caches in Germany (btw considerably more than in my area) and several other regions of my country. I'd say that in regions which do not have much wilderness multi caches are the one of the verw few ways to offer a longer hike apart from powertrail like cache series which I do not regard as better option.

 

However, the functionality that makes this type of caching viable is slowly being eroded away.

 

Not really as there as the new Garmin tool would allow usage by basic members too - they would not need to link it to be used for downloading many caches at the same time.

 

Moreover, it is not really about the data transfer (I have many programs available that I can use to send waypoints to my GPS-r). Another solution would be to offer a gpx file with (only) the waypoints on the cache page for basic members. That would not require any sort of data transfer and would also be manufacturer independent.

Edited by cezanne
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Posted (edited)

The few that had visible additional waypoints on the cache page, I simply entered them sometime before leaving.

Kept it simple, and never saw that as a hindrance. :)

 

How many waypoints did you enter? I need to admit that I would not enjoy entering say 35 waypoints for a single cache and I also would end up with a mess. I dertainly would not want to key in all the waypoints of this cache (and no, it is not an extreme one)

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC5GK9J_vulkanland-noch-zoll-aufi

Edited by cezanne
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Thanks for the feedback, everyone.

 

I'd like to be clear that today's release was completely additive by design. We have not yet replaced any previously existing functionality, nor did we remove any existing features for basic members. Any basic or premium member who was using existing Send to GPS functionality or file downloads yesterday will find those in exactly the same spots today. Today's release was only about making Lists - a premium member tool - more powerful for premium members by providing downloads on demand.

 

That said, this collaboration with Garmin is indeed something that could make its way to other areas of geocaching.com. As you all know, although Send to GPS is still functional it has been slowly eroding for several years. For most users Send to GPS is a broken experience and we'd like to fix that. With that in mind we'll be watching feedback to learn whether the Send to Garmin workflow proves valuable to players so that we can decide whether it should be implemented elsewhere. If we do reach the point where we consider replacing the any of the current download options, we know that we'll need to re-visit how to support basic members and players with non-Garmin GPS units.

 

To summarize: today's release was a start. We'll be watching usage data and feedback to determine what comes next.

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Posted (edited)

 

To summarize: today's release was a start. We'll be watching usage data and feedback to determine what comes next.

 

I think this is a splendid feature! I just left a support request, but thought it probably should have gone here instead. The function opens up my Express program, and the program says it downloaded to my Oregon 600, but I don't see anything in the GPSr. I wonder if you might have an idea where they went to after downloading.

 

ETA - I'm going to leave this up, but I wonder if the reason why things didn't show up is because I'm downloading lists for a trip I'm taking, which is 10 hours away from me. Downloading a local list worked like a charm.

Edited by Orthobeard
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I'd like to be clear that today's release was completely additive by design. We have not yet replaced any previously existing functionality, nor did we remove any existing features for basic members. Any basic or premium member who was using existing Send to GPS functionality or file downloads yesterday will find those in exactly the same spots today. Today's release was only about making Lists - a premium member tool - more powerful for premium members by providing downloads on demand.

 

Thank you very much for the clarification. It would have helped if the original announcement said that. The message that came across was confusing and even more so as the launch of a new method to transfer data to Garmin GPS units was preannounced for mid to end of April in other threads.

 

For most users Send to GPS is a broken experience and we'd like to fix that.

 

That's however true regardless of the member status.

 

With that in mind we'll be watching feedback to learn whether the Send to Garmin workflow proves valuable to players so that we can decide whether it should be implemented elsewhere.

 

So how can basic members provide a feedback that might have any influence on the future development? They cannot comment on something they cannot use and analysing the data usage will no change anything. Or do you mean you will only consider an addition to another place if PMs ask for another place or if the usage of the tool will be excessively large by PMs?

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eTrex Vista HCx

The device is not supported by Garmin Express.

:laughing:

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Posted (edited)

eTrex Vista HCx

The device is not supported by Garmin Express.

:laughing:

 

No, the HCx is not a so called Geocaching friendly unit.

(ie: It can't parse Geocaching GPX files)

 

Hans

Edited by HHL
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Posted (edited)

[...] We'll be watching usage data and feedback to determine what comes next.

 

Could you please at first iron out the faulty generated GPX files? Thanks.

 

What we are expecting (and get per PQ, single GPX file, Api download):

 

GPX_OK.jpg?raw=1

 

And what we get (for now per Garmin Express):

 

GPX_NOT_OK.jpg?raw=1

 

Happy Coding

Hans

Edited by HHL
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I've also noticed you restored the regular links in the field notes. Thanks! (+1/2 = -6 1/2)

 

Tc

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Posted (edited)

eTrex Vista HCx

The device is not supported by Garmin Express.

:laughing:

 

No, the HCx is not a so called Geocaching friendly unit.

(ie: It can't parse Geocaching GPX files)

 

Hans

 

It worked with the old send to gps however and there is no technical reason it cannot work with the new method in the same manner.

I would assume that for premium members the send2gps sent the full gpx file and units like the HCx just used what they can interpret.

The other possible option would be that send2gps sent a reduced gpx file to units like the HCx (the same form of file that was sent for basic members).

 

If the new method does not work for older GPS units, then this is even much more restrictive than by limiting access only to PMs. PMs with modern GPS units have plenty of alternative options anyway and will typically use the alternatives. While from the point of view of Groundspeak's business model I can partially understand why they made the decision to offer the new tool only to PMs, I cannot understand at all why they did not take care of the issue of older Garmin units which would be very easy to deal with.

Edited by cezanne
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There is still an option of loading caches manually,

 

No there isn't with the new system or do you mean typing in all the waypoints manually? That could be 30 and more points per cache. I would not call that loading then however.

 

The hiders of such caches have listed them on this site with being aware that downloading the waypoints was available to all cachers (of course except the case of PM-only caches).

 

I wouldn't call a cache with 30 or more waypoints "basic geocaching." A basic member with an app can download 3 geocaches a day. That's over 1000 caches a year. Even if one has to manually enter coordinates, that's a considerable amount of geocaching for free.

 

A cache with 30 or more waypoints is extremely rare. As a software developer it doesn't make sense to me to implement functionality, especially something as sigificant as added an additional membership level to accommodate a very rare exception.

 

 

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There is still an option of loading caches manually,

 

No there isn't with the new system or do you mean typing in all the waypoints manually? That could be 30 and more points per cache. I would not call that loading then however.

 

The hiders of such caches have listed them on this site with being aware that downloading the waypoints was available to all cachers (of course except the case of PM-only caches).

 

I wouldn't call a cache with 30 or more waypoints "basic geocaching." A basic member with an app can download 3 geocaches a day. That's over 1000 caches a year. Even if one has to manually enter coordinates, that's a considerable amount of geocaching for free.

 

A cache with 30 or more waypoints is extremely rare. As a software developer it doesn't make sense to me to implement functionality, especially something as sigificant as added an additional membership level to accommodate a very rare exception.

 

The cache with 30 or more waypoints was an example (not too exotic around here). The average cacher will also not enjoy to enter manually 10 waypoints and that's quite common for multi caches around here where the waypoints are almost all virtual points and often are needed for the routing to avoid trespassing and other issues. We do not have a wide landscape.

 

The functionality would be needed anyhow to support older GPS units and it's definitely not a good idea to contribute further to chasing away long time cachers who wish to cache with their old equipment which is still perfectly fine. Some cachers own very nice caches and have maintained them up to now but have slowed down their own caching considerably - any way of demovating them and forcing them into big changes is not a good idea and endagers nice caches.

 

The app does not help that sort of target audience that much - many do not even own smartphones.

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Posted (edited)

There is still an option of loading caches manually,

 

No there isn't with the new system or do you mean typing in all the waypoints manually? That could be 30 and more points per cache. I would not call that loading then however.

 

The hiders of such caches have listed them on this site with being aware that downloading the waypoints was available to all cachers (of course except the case of PM-only caches).

 

I wouldn't call a cache with 30 or more waypoints "basic geocaching." A basic member with an app can download 3 geocaches a day. That's over 1000 caches a year. Even if one has to manually enter coordinates, that's a considerable amount of geocaching for free.

 

A cache with 30 or more waypoints is extremely rare. As a software developer it doesn't make sense to me to implement functionality, especially something as sigificant as added an additional membership level to accommodate a very rare exception.

 

The cache with 30 or more waypoints was an example (not too exotic around here - a simple urban sightseeing multi like this one https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC6JKMC_der-grazer-schlossberg has already more). The average cacher will also not enjoy to enter manually 10 waypoints and that's quite common for multi caches around here where the waypoints are almost all virtual points and often are needed for the routing to avoid trespassing and other issues. We do not have a wide landscape.

 

The functionality would be needed anyhow to support older GPS units and it's definitely not a good idea to contribute further to chasing away long time cachers who wish to cache with their old equipment which is still perfectly fine. Some cachers own very nice caches and have maintained them up to now but have slowed down their own caching considerably - any way of demovating them and forcing them into big changes is not a good idea and endagers nice caches.

 

The app does not help that sort of target audience that much - many do not even own smartphones.

 

Moreover, the original statement regarding the freeness was made in response to concerns regarding copyrighting and commercializing something which should belong to the community. From that point of view it is irrelevant how many waypoints a cache has. It's the same sort of decision to offer a cache with 1 waypoint on gc.com than one with 100.

Edited by cezanne
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Moreover, the original statement regarding the freeness was made in response to concerns regarding copyrighting and commercializing something which should belong to the community. From that point of view it is irrelevant how many waypoints a cache has. It's the same sort of decision to offer a cache with 1 waypoint on gc.com than one with 100.

 

For all the effort you put into NOT paying with the time spent manually planning and entering data, the cost of printing/ink and the time spent telling us about your effort, the $30 annual contribution would pay for itself in a day. You can still find caches to go after and log them without paying so it's still free. The rest seems fair game for paying for.

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As a reminder, please limit posts to the Release Notes to commenting on the new Garmin GPS functionality. For example, HHL's observation about UTF-8 is a great on-topic response.

 

More "meta" discussions about features made available to basic members should be taken to another thread.

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Could you please at first iron out the faulty generated GPX files? Thanks.

 

What we are expecting (and get per PQ, single GPX file, Api download):

 

GPX_OK.jpg?raw=1

 

And what we get (for now per Garmin Express):

 

GPX_NOT_OK.jpg?raw=1

 

Happy Coding

Hans

 

Thanks for the additional details. We'll look into the encoding and header issues and fix them soon.

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Could you please at first iron out the faulty generated GPX files? Thanks.

 

What we are expecting (and get per PQ, single GPX file, Api download):

 

GPX_OK.jpg?raw=1

 

And what we get (for now per Garmin Express):

 

GPX_NOT_OK.jpg?raw=1

 

Happy Coding

Hans

 

Hans - Could you confirm the source of your GPX file that does not show HTML encoding problems? We've been investigating and we're seeing the same bug (like your second screen grab) from all sources, including PQs and single cache GPX files.

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Posted (edited)

[...]

 

Hans - Could you confirm the source of your GPX file that does not show HTML encoding problems? We've been investigating and we're seeing the same bug (like your second screen grab) from all sources, including PQs and single cache GPX files.

 

Moin Ben,

the correctly formatted GPX was sent from GSAK. GSAK was populated from PQs, Single GPX downloads and from the Api (Full Format downloads).

Sorry that I forgot to test the direct download from PQ based GPX files to my unit. tongue.gif

Edit to add:

I just downloaded two GPX files (an Italian and a Swedish one @ 23:00:00 CEST) directly from a cache page. I have no issues with Html encodings. All special chars are shown as expected. Garmin unit is Montana 600 with fw 7.2 | PC is running Win 10.

 

Hans

Edited by HHL
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Additionally I've just downloaded an Hungarian PQ (which wasn't full of eels.).

Everything is as expected:

 

GPX_correct_HU.jpg?raw=1

 

Happy Coding

Hans

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Posted (edited)

[...] Still testing. Sorry cute_animated.gif

Edited by HHL
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I'm seeing issues when a cache has been marked as containing HTML by the owner. It's in those cases where we seem to be incorrectly encoding the content between brackets. If the owner uses no HTML in the cache description, then the extended characters are not encoded and rendered properly by the GPS.

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Additionally I've just downloaded an Hungarian PQ (which wasn't full of eels.).

So, fair to say that you are no longer infected?

:ph34r:

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This is good....but it would be great to send a pocket query to my Garmin. Even better, I'd like to combine several pocket queries into one GGZ file and send that to my Garmin. Essentially, I'd like to stop using GSAK.

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eTrex Vista HCx

The device is not supported by Garmin Express.

:laughing:

 

No, the HCx is not a so called Geocaching friendly unit.

(ie: It can't parse Geocaching GPX files)

 

Hans

 

my faithful GPSmap 60 is also not supported, this really is my favorite gps for navigation when caching.

fortunately the way through GSAK still works as expected.

so for me this is not the long awaited solution, sorry.

I would really apprecuiate a solution that works for all those devices that were supported by the old communicator.

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Moved this to this forum from the other one, to keep the discussion going.

 

OK, so we usually dump to GSAK, increase number of logs to 30, use a couple of macros to massage attributes, add personal notes and images and clears the old list on the gps (if we want). Using the new "dump to Garmin" feature on the new LISTS system, ends up with the new list appended to the old list already on the Garmin (not good) and dumping only 5 logs, not adding attributes in text format, not adding personal notes and not adding images. Lots of improvements needed. Any hope of that in the near future?

 

The old list system tells us when a newly added cache is "already on the list", and tells us that the cache was successfully added. The new list seems to have left these features out. That means lots of backtracking and checking to see if the "add" was successful or duplicated.

 

We'll stick to the old list system for now pending some of the improvements mentioned above.

sktqch

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