lockpicking geocache

[+jg425]

I am interested in creating some lockpicking geocaches and just wanted to get some input from the forum. First, I want to address legality... most states treat lockpicking tools like bolt cutters. If you aren't using them for burglary, they are fine to have. If you are trespassing at night... different story. Here is a list of laws by state: toool.us/laws

I haven't seen any of these in Washington state but in Germany they are pretty common. They have hundreds of them over there, many even 60 feet up in trees.

 

This is what I have made so far.

 

 

I used PVC and steel pipe, each containing a smaller PVC container that can only be removed when you pick the lock. The inner-container would house a logbook (obviously), and possibly other stuff (any ideas would be helpful). I may have to figure out something more waterproof for the inner-container. I am really looking for any input that would be helpful.

 

Thanks,

JG425

[+Manville Possum]

Those are nice containers, but I'm not sure how many geocachers can use a lock pick of have burglary tools as part of their TOTT.

 

Looks like here in Virginia posession of picks can be considered evidence of criminal intent.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Manville Possum

[+cerberus1]

Working at the hoosegow intake for many years, have seen quite a few knuckleheads come in with "possession of an instrument of a crime" (Title 18) tacked on to whatever they're dropped off for.

 

I feel simple night caching puts the hobby in a completely different light as it is.

"Loitering and prowling at night" is a popular charge...

 

To me, carrying around burglary tools, and using 'em in this hobby, is just asking for others (law enforcement mostly) to take notice.

 

"Hey ! Whatcha doing there !"

 

- "Oh, just picking this lock. That's how I have fun. Geocaching ya know..."

 

"Well, most folks we see Geocatching are looking behind bushes in parks, or parked next to lamp posts in deserted parking lots.

...Errr...now that I think about it, this seems like a really creepy hobby. Lemme see some ID."

[TahoeJoe]

I am interested in creating some lockpicking geocaches and just wanted to get some input from the forum. First, I want to address legality... most states treat lockpicking tools like bolt cutters. If you aren't using them for burglary, they are fine to have. If you are trespassing at night... different story. Here is a list of laws by state: toool.us/laws

I haven't seen any of these in Washington state but in Germany they are pretty common. They have hundreds of them over there, many even 60 feet up in trees.

 

This is what I have made so far.

 

 

I used PVC and steel pipe, each containing a smaller PVC container that can only be removed when you pick the lock. The inner-container would house a logbook (obviously), and possibly other stuff (any ideas would be helpful). I may have to figure out something more waterproof for the inner-container. I am really looking for any input that would be helpful.

 

Thanks,

JG425

A good bolt cutter would be much more efficient.

[+narcissa]

I enjoy seeing people innovate in this game, but I think in practice you'll find, in pretty short order, that people will employ brute force to open these caches.

[+AustinMN]

I enjoy seeing people innovate in this game, but I think in practice you'll find, in pretty short order, that people will employ brute force to open these caches.

 

+1. This is where I was going.

 

Some people in this hobby run on the stupid side. Even if you put a label on the cache stating "You have to pick the lock to open this cache," and put the same info in the description, and the same info in the title, and the same info in the hint, and applied the Special Tool Required attribute, you would get someone who would use alternate -- and destructive -- means.

 

Some will blame the previous cacher in their log, others will actually admit to "I couldn't figure out how to open it so I pried/smashed/cut/drilled it open and now it's damaged."

 

You would also get the occasional "I found the container, but I could not find the key, so I logged it anyway."

[TahoeJoe]

I would place this cache in a remote location that involves a good hike to discourage damage. I would also encourage photos of attempts to unlock the cache.

[+jg425]

I would place this cache in a remote location that involves a good hike to discourage damage. I would also encourage photos of attempts to unlock the cache.

 

Yes, I thought encourgaging an "unlocked photo" would be a fun idea.

[+J Grouchy]

So...maybe a silly question...

When it says "state must prove criminal intent"...and the lock and cache are technically someone else's property...well, could the case be made for criminal intent?

 

But then I guess that would mean all geocachers are criminals by the fact that we are all opening and invading other peoples' property...

[+narcissa]

There used to be a multi around here where you had to get a key (the keys floated around from cache to cache, or cacher to cacher), use it to retrieve a second key that was in a box, and then use that key to open the final cache.

 

It doesn't work for lock-picking, but it would be a way to use these cool containers.

 

I guess for lock-picking, you could provide the tools for lock-picking and make it a remote cache like someone else said. It's not foolproof but it would probably reduce the chance that someone will do something terrible to it.

[+Mudfrog]

I like the idea but as others have already stated, problems may come up. I would say that location location location is the key here. Out in the woods, places far from the maddening crowd, or on property that you have explicit permission to hide it on would be better spots than in a city park or other public, muggle infested area. Can't imagine it working out well in most urban areas open to the general public.

 

When it says "state must prove criminal intent"...and the lock and cache are technically someone else's property...well, could the case be made for criminal intent?

I would say not since explicit permission to pick the lock was given by the CO. The CO would need to provide this information on the cache page where it could be printed out and carried or brought up on a phone for those cases where law enforcement stopped by and went to asking questions.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Mudfrog

[+jg425]

So...maybe a silly question...

When it says "state must prove criminal intent"...and the lock and cache are technically someone else's property...well, could the case be made for criminal intent?

 

But then I guess that would mean all geocachers are criminals by the fact that we are all opening and invading other peoples' property...

 

Because I am giving permission to open the lock, and that is the entire purpose for it, criminal intent wouldn't apply. That is also why I designed stickers specifically stating that it was a lockpicking cache.

Edited April 22, 2016 by jg425

[+Michaelcycle]

Biking, hiking, kayaking, tree climbing, waypoint projecting, route planning, topo map reading, even puzzle solving are activities I enjoy getting better at while geocaching. Lock picking? No, thanks.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

So...maybe a silly question...

When it says "state must prove criminal intent"...and the lock and cache are technically someone else's property...well, could the case be made for criminal intent?

 

I have no idea, but personally I would rather not play the game in a manner where I might have to explain what I am doing in court.

 

 

[+Manville Possum]

So...maybe a silly question...

When it says "state must prove criminal intent"...and the lock and cache are technically someone else's property...well, could the case be made for criminal intent?

 

I have no idea, but personally I would rather not play the game in a manner where I might have to explain what I am doing in court.

 

You can count me out too if I have to possess burglary tools to find a geocache.

[+narcissa]

Biking, hiking, kayaking, tree climbing, waypoint projecting, route planning, topo map reading, even puzzle solving are activities I enjoy getting better at while geocaching. Lock picking? No, thanks.

 

Oh, did they change the guidelines? Can we only hide caches that everyone will like now?

[TahoeJoe]

So...maybe a silly question...

When it says "state must prove criminal intent"...and the lock and cache are technically someone else's property...well, could the case be made for criminal intent?

 

I have no idea, but personally I would rather not play the game in a manner where I might have to explain what I am doing in court.

 

You can count me out too if I have to possess burglary tools to find a geocache.

I'm lucky to get 2 or 3 visits to some of my hiking caches a year. I'll have to follow this cache and see how it does.

[+Manville Possum]

Biking, hiking, kayaking, tree climbing, waypoint projecting, route planning, topo map reading, even puzzle solving are activities I enjoy getting better at while geocaching. Lock picking? No, thanks.

 

Oh, did they change the guidelines? Can we only hide caches that everyone will like now?

 

I think a lock picking cache would have legal issues in some States, and I don't think they should be published if it causes legal issues. Like them or not.

Edited April 22, 2016 by Manville Possum

[+Harry Dolphin]

Lock picking tools? It's almost impossible to buy a pen knife in New Jersey (It's considered a weapon. I buy mine in Pennsylvania. I couldn't take my pen knife to the top of the Empire State Building, or to the Statue of Liberty.)

I certainly hope you warn geocachers about the need to pick locks. If I hike a mile out into the woods and find a cache like that, I'd do my best to get to the log. NM.

[+noncentric]

In addition to what others have posted, I'd suggest listing such a cache as a Mystery type. This should increase the likelihood that cachers will read the cache page first.

 

If listed as a Traditional with Field Puzzle attribute, then you'll likely get a lot of cachers that don't understand it's a puzzle and they'll just try to force their way into it. Keep in mind that most (all?) GPSr's do not display attributes.

[+zihyer]

Biking, hiking, kayaking, tree climbing, waypoint projecting, route planning, topo map reading, even puzzle solving are activities I enjoy getting better at while geocaching. Lock picking? No, thanks.

Oh, did they change the guidelines? Can we only hide caches that everyone will like now?

I could be mistaken but I interpreted Michaelcycle's response as his own preference to not participate. I don't think he was advocating whether or not lockpicking caches could be hidden.

[+The A-Team]

Biking, hiking, kayaking, tree climbing, waypoint projecting, route planning, topo map reading, even puzzle solving are activities I enjoy getting better at while geocaching. Lock picking? No, thanks.

Oh, did they change the guidelines? Can we only hide caches that everyone will like now?

I could be mistaken but I interpreted Michaelcycle's response as his own preference to not participate. I don't think he was advocating whether or not lockpicking caches could be hidden.

+1

I see nothing wrong with expressing your personal preferences. In fact, Michaelcycle seems to be expressing a stance that you (narcissa) always advocate: if you don't like it, you don't need to find it.

[+Michaelcycle]

Biking, hiking, kayaking, tree climbing, waypoint projecting, route planning, topo map reading, even puzzle solving are activities I enjoy getting better at while geocaching. Lock picking? No, thanks.

Oh, did they change the guidelines? Can we only hide caches that everyone will like now?

I could be mistaken but I interpreted Michaelcycle's response as his own preference to not participate. I don't think he was advocating whether or not lockpicking caches could be hidden.

You are not mistaken. The OP asked for any input. Narcissa chose to misinterpret my statement of MY preference.

[+TheAuthorityFigures]

Hmm... lock picking. Very interesting. I too would follow this cache just to see what happens. My guess is less than 1/10 of 1% of all geocachers have the tools, much less the skill set. I guess with the internet though you can learn any skill set these days. I envision a large increase of people typing "how to pick a lock" into search engines in your area and a few eyebrows raised in the local FBI field branch.

[+narcissa]

Biking, hiking, kayaking, tree climbing, waypoint projecting, route planning, topo map reading, even puzzle solving are activities I enjoy getting better at while geocaching. Lock picking? No, thanks.

Oh, did they change the guidelines? Can we only hide caches that everyone will like now?

I could be mistaken but I interpreted Michaelcycle's response as his own preference to not participate. I don't think he was advocating whether or not lockpicking caches could be hidden.

You are not mistaken. The OP asked for any input. Narcissa chose to misinterpret my statement of MY preference.

 

The OP asked for helpful input.

[+Manville Possum]

Biking, hiking, kayaking, tree climbing, waypoint projecting, route planning, topo map reading, even puzzle solving are activities I enjoy getting better at while geocaching. Lock picking? No, thanks.

Oh, did they change the guidelines? Can we only hide caches that everyone will like now?

I could be mistaken but I interpreted Michaelcycle's response as his own preference to not participate. I don't think he was advocating whether or not lockpicking caches could be hidden.

You are not mistaken. The OP asked for any input. Narcissa chose to misinterpret my statement of MY preference.

 

The OP asked for helpful input.

 

You know they did not change the guidelines. Do you feel your comment was helpful?

[+niraD]

Sounds fun. I'm not sure where my tools are; it's been a LONG time since I've had to pick a lock. I'd probably have to make a new set to find a cache like this.

 

Echoing other suggestions...

 

Make sure it's legal locally. Make sure it's very clear that the cache requires lockpicking. List it as a mystery/puzzle cache, to make sure people read the description, and to reduce traffic from geocachers who just go to the coordinates and search with no further information.

 

It could help to put it in a remote location, both to reduce traffic from casual geocachers and to reduce potential issues with LEO encounters.

 

And other obstacles might help too, just to limit traffic to geocachers who are interested in a real challenge. I've heard of a lockpicking cache that required a boat (or a long swim) to reach GZ. Others have suggested a location that requires climbing. A cave or other location that requires a flashlight/headlamp might be another alternative.

[+FunnyNose]

[+cerberus1]

Who needs professional tools when you can CITO.

[+The Jester]

So...maybe a silly question...

When it says "state must prove criminal intent"...and the lock and cache are technically someone else's property...well, could the case be made for criminal intent?

 

I have no idea, but personally I would rather not play the game in a manner where I might have to explain what I am doing in court.

 

You can count me out too if I have to possess burglary tools to find a geocache.

But they are not "burglarly tools" - locksmiths are not burglers. I got mine because of my work, it's a related (or sub-set) section of study - I'm a magician.

 

This brings to mind the conversation I heard about:

 

Cop: Lady, I'm going to have to charge you with burglery since you have lockpicking tools.

 

Lady: Then I'm going to have you chared with attempted rape.

 

Cop: What!? I haven't touched you.

 

Lady: But you have the tools...

[+DerDiedler]

Why is everyone call a lockpickin toolset a burglary tool?

 

Isn´t far more common, to use brut force to break into a property? Or have you ever heard about one, who spent money and al lot of time to get specialiced tools and skills to perfprm a crime?

 

And isn´t lockpicking more of a sport? I mean there are even Championships in this sport. Ant the supreme codex of the lockpickng community is, to never pick a lock without the owners permission.

 

So Why not to get in to this game? And why not to enrich geocaching with this kind of a challenge?

 

I for my started lickpicking besaise of geocaching, and it kan be yet nice and frustraiting

 

My lockpicking cache GC4899B have 47 founds on it and noone ever have applied force to it. As an owner, you should state clearly what tha challenge of this cache is. So most cacher without the intention to pick the lock nicely will avoid this cache. And for the few others, just built it sturdy enougt

[+Isonzo Karst]

some input from the forum

 

Something not mentioned yet is that you might want to hide several of them in near vicinity all at once.

Once there's more than one of them, it ups the value of figuring out how to deal with them. If you put out one, to see "how it goes", my guess is that it won't "go" much at all. People will ignore it, or log whiny accusatory DNFs ;-) or destroy it.

 

There's a current trend to gadget caches. The more complex and difficult of these tend end up destroyed ~~~ eventually.

 

I'd suggest that as you've already made them, go ahead and place 'em. Think of them as a gift to the game. See what happens, and whatever it is, just accept that.

[+narcissa]

Sounds fun. I'm not sure where my tools are; it's been a LONG time since I've had to pick a lock. I'd probably have to make a new set to find a cache like this.

 

Echoing other suggestions...

 

Make sure it's legal locally. Make sure it's very clear that the cache requires lockpicking. List it as a mystery/puzzle cache, to make sure people read the description, and to reduce traffic from geocachers who just go to the coordinates and search with no further information.

 

It could help to put it in a remote location, both to reduce traffic from casual geocachers and to reduce potential issues with LEO encounters.

 

And other obstacles might help too, just to limit traffic to geocachers who are interested in a real challenge. I've heard of a lockpicking cache that required a boat (or a long swim) to reach GZ. Others have suggested a location that requires climbing. A cave or other location that requires a flashlight/headlamp might be another alternative.

 

These are all really great suggestions.

[+Mudfrog]

Sounds fun. I'm not sure where my tools are; it's been a LONG time since I've had to pick a lock. I'd probably have to make a new set to find a cache like this.

 

Echoing other suggestions...

 

Make sure it's legal locally. Make sure it's very clear that the cache requires lockpicking. List it as a mystery/puzzle cache, to make sure people read the description, and to reduce traffic from geocachers who just go to the coordinates and search with no further information.

 

It could help to put it in a remote location, both to reduce traffic from casual geocachers and to reduce potential issues with LEO encounters.

 

And other obstacles might help too, just to limit traffic to geocachers who are interested in a real challenge. I've heard of a lockpicking cache that required a boat (or a long swim) to reach GZ. Others have suggested a location that requires climbing. A cave or other location that requires a flashlight/headlamp might be another alternative.

 

These are all really great suggestions.

Agree, good suggestions. For the most part, except for a few states, i don't see much issue on legality of carrying lockpicking tools. Just like most of our caching activities, we can be stopped at any time and be asked what we are doing. In vast majority of those cases, just be honest about what you're doing and things will be fine. (note, this may not work for someone who is on parole)

 

The biggest issue i believe, will be cachers screwing up the cache. That's why i stated location as being a big factor. If it's in an easily accessible place, doesn't take much effort to get to, then there's a better chance it will be compromised. List it as mystery for sure to keep the numbers crowd from visiting. Hate to stereotype but i'd guess this crowd doesn't read cache descriptions very often.

[+kunarion]

The biggest issue i believe, will be cachers screwing up the cache.

The cache pages need a whole lot of info. As mentioned, many cachers don't read cache pages. The description would have to make it clear exactly what to do. Sure, it may say, "you must pick this lock", but I'd try to find a key nearby, hoping you mean "use the hidden key". I mean, really, pick the lock? I'd bet I'm the not the only person who never picked a lock.

 

I may have an old pick set (comes with a book!), but I have no idea how to tell if it's good for those locks. They look modern to me, and I'd rather have an old style that's known to be pickable. Will you specify the correct lock pick set to buy? Or is that included with the cache?

 

Say I arrive with my caching bag, pull out a paper clip, and really mess things up. It worked great in the movies. Do you have a lot of extra locks in case I get pieces of paper clip jammed in one? Will you check it often in case a previous cacher messed it up?

 

Anyway, the containers in the OP look sweet!

Edited April 24, 2016 by kunarion

[+kunarion]

That's what I would try. That is, I'll arrive a 2nd time. The first trip was required so I could verify it's truly a "lockpicking cache", and to find out what kind of lock it is, and to ensure it wasn't left open by the previous finder.

 

So I find a cool YouTube video, and get pieces of soda can jammed in the lock and ruin it. And cut my hand pretty badly in the process. I'm sure looking forward to this!

[+MtnMutt-ProDuckShins]

What happens when a Cacher breaks off a piece of Paper Clip in the key slot and jams it?

[+Manville Possum]

So...maybe a silly question...

When it says "state must prove criminal intent"...and the lock and cache are technically someone else's property...well, could the case be made for criminal intent?

 

I have no idea, but personally I would rather not play the game in a manner where I might have to explain what I am doing in court.

 

You can count me out too if I have to possess burglary tools to find a geocache.

But they are not "burglarly tools" - locksmiths are not burglers. I got mine because of my work, it's a related (or sub-set) section of study - I'm a magician.

 

This brings to mind the conversation I heard about:

 

Cop: Lady, I'm going to have to charge you with burglery since you have lockpicking tools.

 

Lady: Then I'm going to have you chared with attempted rape.

 

Cop: What!? I haven't touched you.

 

Lady: But you have the tools...

 

You could argue that point to a judge, but according to the link provided by the OP lock picks are not something I could possess out in the field. I'm not a lock smith.

[+The Jester]

So...maybe a silly question...

When it says "state must prove criminal intent"...and the lock and cache are technically someone else's property...well, could the case be made for criminal intent?

 

I have no idea, but personally I would rather not play the game in a manner where I might have to explain what I am doing in court.

 

You can count me out too if I have to possess burglary tools to find a geocache.

But they are not "burglarly tools" - locksmiths are not burglers. I got mine because of my work, it's a related (or sub-set) section of study - I'm a magician.

 

This brings to mind the conversation I heard about:

 

Cop: Lady, I'm going to have to charge you with burglery since you have lockpicking tools.

 

Lady: Then I'm going to have you chared with attempted rape.

 

Cop: What!? I haven't touched you.

 

Lady: But you have the tools...

 

You could argue that point to a judge, but according to the link provided by the OP lock picks are not something I could possess out in the field. I'm not a lock smith.

I'd like to see how VA defines "burglarious tools". Most of my tool box could be used in a burglery. Lock picks aren't often used, most of the time a window is broken, door kicked in/forced open and such. That's why most states use "intent".

[+The Jester]

What happens when a Cacher breaks off a piece of Paper Clip in the key slot and jams it?

Have you ever tried to break a paper clip? The chances of that happening in picking a lock is pretty slim - you don't apply that much force inside a lock. And yes, I have picked locks with a bobbie pin and paper clip.

[+Manville Possum]

What happens when a Cacher breaks off a piece of Paper Clip in the key slot and jams it?

Have you ever tried to break a paper clip? The chances of that happening in picking a lock is pretty slim - you don't apply that much force inside a lock. And yes, I have picked locks with a bobbie pin and paper clip.

 

I can pop a lock with a Glock.

[+jg425]

Hmm... lock picking. Very interesting. I too would follow this cache just to see what happens. My guess is less than 1/10 of 1% of all geocachers have the tools, much less the skill set. I guess with the internet though you can learn any skill set these days. I envision a large increase of people typing "how to pick a lock" into search engines in your area and a few eyebrows raised in the local FBI field branch.

 

There are literally tens of thousands of lockpicking videos on YouTube. I assure you the FBI has no interest in people looking up lockpicking as a hobby. My hunch is that there are more people out there than you think. This might just introduce a few people to Geocaching from the lockpicking community and also introduce Geocachers to lockpicking.

 

Why is everyone call a lockpickin toolset a burglary tool?

 

Isn´t far more common, to use brut force to break into a property? Or have you ever heard about one, who spent money and al lot of time to get specialiced tools and skills to perfprm a crime?

 

And isn´t lockpicking more of a sport? I mean there are even Championships in this sport. Ant the supreme codex of the lockpickng community is, to never pick a lock without the owners permission.

 

So Why not to get in to this game? And why not to enrich geocaching with this kind of a challenge?

 

Yes, I think it's far easier for someone to use a rock to break a lock off, or a drill, or a hacksaw, or a prybar, than learn the skill necessary for lockpicking. But that's the fun of lockpicking... Solving the puzzle, using your skills. It's not about breaking the law, there are much easier ways for criminals to do that. I like your perspective on this and I agree, it has the possibility to really enrich the game.

 

Isonzo Karst...

I think hiding a bunch at once is a really good idea.

 

MtnMutt-ProDuckShins...

I can fix a paperclip stuck in a lock. I think I'd have more of a problem in an urban environment with that sort of thing. Good food for thought.

 

niraD...

Yes, it's legal here for sure.

 

Mudfrog...

I'm not too worried about the caches getting messed up... The PVC ones are pretty cheap to replace and the steel ones may actually be bulletproof. :-) the nice thing is I can easily secure them to a tree or post with a chain.

 

kunarion...

I won't be placing super difficult locks on these. I was thinking of possibly making them progressively harder for each cache in the series, but that will be after I work out the issues. I'll be starting with standard 4pin and maybe 5pin locks that require minimal skill.

 

These have been great suggestions so far... Keep em coming!

[+Manville Possum]

So...maybe a silly question...

When it says "state must prove criminal intent"...and the lock and cache are technically someone else's property...well, could the case be made for criminal intent?

 

I have no idea, but personally I would rather not play the game in a manner where I might have to explain what I am doing in court.

 

You can count me out too if I have to possess burglary tools to find a geocache.

But they are not "burglarly tools" - locksmiths are not burglers. I got mine because of my work, it's a related (or sub-set) section of study - I'm a magician.

 

This brings to mind the conversation I heard about:

 

Cop: Lady, I'm going to have to charge you with burglery since you have lockpicking tools.

 

Lady: Then I'm going to have you chared with attempted rape.

 

Cop: What!? I haven't touched you.

 

Lady: But you have the tools...

 

You could argue that point to a judge, but according to the link provided by the OP lock picks are not something I could possess out in the field. I'm not a lock smith.

I'd like to see how VA defines "burglarious tools". Most of my tool box could be used in a burglery. Lock picks aren't often used, most of the time a window is broken, door kicked in/forced open and such. That's why most states use "intent".

 

I'm right here on the border of Tennessee, take a look at what their State Law says about lockpicks.

[+GeoBain]

Competitive lock picking is actually becoming popular around the country. I think this is a great idea for a cache. Just let me know before I go searching what to expect. I don't normally carry picks with me and it would irritate me to have to go home and get picks and come back. (Not that I wouldn't just to prove I was up to the challenge).

 

I am interested in creating some lockpicking geocaches and just wanted to get some input from the forum. First, I want to address legality... most states treat lockpicking tools like bolt cutters. If you aren't using them for burglary, they are fine to have. If you are trespassing at night... different story. Here is a list of laws by state: toool.us/laws

I haven't seen any of these in Washington state but in Germany they are pretty common. They have hundreds of them over there, many even 60 feet up in trees.

 

This is what I have made so far.

 

 

I used PVC and steel pipe, each containing a smaller PVC container that can only be removed when you pick the lock. The inner-container would house a logbook (obviously), and possibly other stuff (any ideas would be helpful). I may have to figure out something more waterproof for the inner-container. I am really looking for any input that would be helpful.

 

Thanks,

JG425

[+Mn-treker]

I do not know where some of you live. But Mere possession of lock picking devices is unlawful.

Even possession of an item known as a slim Jim is a crime. The only people that can lawfully posses any kind of lock

picking equipment are Police officers and Locksmiths.

[+GeoBain]

The International Competition Where Master Lock-pickers Do Battle

 

Locksport

 

Lock sport International

 

And one of my favorite YouTube channels is Bosnian Bill.

 

Why is everyone call a lockpickin toolset a burglary tool?

 

Isn´t far more common, to use brut force to break into a property? Or have you ever heard about one, who spent money and al lot of time to get specialiced tools and skills to perfprm a crime?

 

And isn´t lockpicking more of a sport? I mean there are even Championships in this sport. Ant the supreme codex of the lockpickng community is, to never pick a lock without the owners permission.

 

So Why not to get in to this game? And why not to enrich geocaching with this kind of a challenge?

 

I for my started lickpicking besaise of geocaching, and it kan be yet nice and frustraiting

 

My lockpicking cache GC4899B have 47 founds on it and noone ever have applied force to it. As an owner, you should state clearly what tha challenge of this cache is. So most cacher without the intention to pick the lock nicely will avoid this cache. And for the few others, just built it sturdy enougt

Edited April 24, 2016 by GeoBain

[+niraD]

I do not know where some of you live. But Mere possession of lock picking devices is unlawful.

Here in California, mere possession is not illegal. The law requires "intent feloniously to break or enter".

 

Is mere possession of bobby pins and safety pins unlawful? Because I've used them as lockpicking devices. (Although it wouldn't be my first choice.)

[+Mn-treker]

I do not know where some of you live. But Mere possession of lock picking devices is unlawful.

Here in California, mere possession is not illegal. The law requires "intent feloniously to break or enter".

 

Is mere possession of bobby pins and safety pins unlawful? Because I've used them as lockpicking devices. (Although it wouldn't be my first choice.)

I found a web site that shows the law in all states link http://toool.us/laws.html

Those laws are so ambiguous as to let the cop decide your intent. Just being in the area of a lock while possessing lock picking tools could get you arrested.

The cops jump us enough about geocaching do you really want to give them something real strong to toss you in jail. Suspicious behavior while possessing burglary tools.

There are cops among us. Please give your opinion.

[+noncentric]

I do not know where some of you live. But Mere possession of lock picking devices is unlawful.

Here in California, mere possession is not illegal. The law requires "intent feloniously to break or enter".

 

Is mere possession of bobby pins and safety pins unlawful? Because I've used them as lockpicking devices. (Although it wouldn't be my first choice.)

I found a web site that shows the law in all states link http://toool.us/laws.html

Those laws are so ambiguous as to let the cop decide your intent. Just being in the area of a lock while possessing lock picking tools could get you arrested.

The cops jump us enough about geocaching do you really want to give them something real strong to toss you in jail. Suspicious behavior while possessing burglary tools.

There are cops among us. Please give your opinion.

Looks like the same website the OP noted in post #1.

 

While an LEO could proceed based on his/her opinion of your intent, I believe the final determination would be made by a judge. I'm assuming a cacher could prove their intent was to pick a lock for a geocache, not something more nefarious, and hopefully a judge would consider that. However, this is probably why the suggestions of placing such a cache in a remote location are good, to minimize the potential LEO encounters.

[+Mn-treker]

Been so long I did not notice it. But still our activities are already regarded as suspicious. Why add a strongly possible criminal element to it?

When I asked a cop who helped using his slim Jim to get into a car. About that tool be said meer possession of such a lock picking device is considered intent. If you are not a locksmith or cop why the need for lock picking tools.