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Cannot log before approval

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I've been planning a trip to Europe and one of the Earthcaches I looked at contained the instruction

 

"You may NOT log the cache before receiving approval."

 

Is this permitted? If I do log before approval can the CO delete my log?

 

When I'm on holiday I like to log all my finds each day, so I don't get too far behind, and I log them in the order they are found. Unless this happens to be my last find of the day, logging it last will mess up the order of my finds and will mess up my distance statistics.

 

What are the rules here, please?

 

Thanks

 

Tony

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Don't quote me, but I think it's against the rules to force you to wait for approval to log the cache, as long as you do what's required of you.

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Link for reference:

 

Logging an Earthcache or Virtual Cache

 

Seems a bit heavy handed, but I couldn't find any answer to your question in the Help Center or the Guidelines that addresses your concern.

 

Faced with such a situation, I would probably make a bookmark list to help me keep track of one's I'm awaiting responses from the cache owner.

 

Have a great trip!

Edited by Touchstone

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Should you have to wait for approval, you can select whatever date you want... you needn't use only the date the log was posted online.

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I've been planning a trip to Europe and one of the Earthcaches I looked at contained the instruction

 

"You may NOT log the cache before receiving approval."

 

Is this permitted? If I do log before approval can the CO delete my log?

 

When I'm on holiday I like to log all my finds each day, so I don't get too far behind, and I log them in the order they are found. Unless this happens to be my last find of the day, logging it last will mess up the order of my finds and will mess up my distance statistics.

 

What are the rules here, please?

 

Thanks

 

Tony

 

If you're concerned about the logs getting out of order, you can log the cache with just a "Write Note" log and change it to "Found" later. Your Note log will act as a placeholder, keeping all the caches in the correct sequence.

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According to geosociety.org's site's FAQ...

"1. People do not need to wait for permission to log your EarthCache. Requiring someone to wait is not supported by the EarthCache guidelines. People should send their logging task answers to you, then log your EarthCache. When you review their logging task answers, if there is a problem, you should contact them to resolve it. If there is no problem, then their log simply stands."

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Thank you all for your advice.

 

The cache concerned was placed in 2012, which predates the guidelines. Would it be appropriate for an earthcache reviewer to contact the owner and get them to remove that sentence? Or is this sort of thing grandfathered into the cache?

 

Tony

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Guess if I was curious enough I'd email the Reviewer JIC.

 

- But in this thread from '11, a Reviewer said there is/was no such requirement (approval before logging) and geoaware said log it too. :)

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I never wait to log an EC. Getting back in the evening I connect my GPS to the computer with GSAK, import geocache_visits.txt, write my logs and publish them through the API. I then send (a) mail(s) to the CO(s). So far all answers were correct so I didn't have any issues where I had to send a better answer or had a log deleted.

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I never wait to log an EC. Getting back in the evening I connect my GPS to the computer with GSAK, import geocache_visits.txt, write my logs and publish them through the API. I then send (a) mail(s) to the CO(s).

 

I think it is much better style to first send the answers and then log the find. The instruction by the GSA says the same.

It's like first signing the log sheet and then logging a find and not the other way round.

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I never wait to log an EC. Getting back in the evening I connect my GPS to the computer with GSAK, import geocache_visits.txt, write my logs and publish them through the API. I then send (a) mail(s) to the CO(s).

 

I think it is much better style to first send the answers and then log the find. The instruction by the GSA says the same.

It's like first signing the log sheet and then logging a find and not the other way round.

 

As if 2 minutes makes the difference. How long do you think it takes to C/P the answers into the send message field and press "send message"? Title + cache reference and footer are automatically filled in (GM script). Unless a CO is actually getting his mail at the very instant the logs are uploaded he/she will get the log notification and my answers at the same time. I don't wait for the API logging to complete before I start sending the mail. GSAK can handle itself by it's own after hitting "publish all" B)

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Thank you all for your advice.

 

The cache concerned was placed in 2012, which predates the guidelines. Would it be appropriate for an earthcache reviewer to contact the owner and get them to remove that sentence? Or is this sort of thing grandfathered into the cache?

 

Tony

I don't think it's grandfathered, since it was never in the Guidelines that such practices were acceptable. I think a small number of cache owners just took it upon themselves to invent this issue.

 

Like the photo issue, I believe such things are often left alone, rather than going out on a witch hunt trying to eradicate them from active Listings. When the cache owner starts enforcing the ALR sounding wording is when a Reviewer, GSA or Groundspeak get involved to bring the Listing into compliance with Guidelines, or in this case, the FAQ.

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As if 2 minutes makes the difference. How long do you think it takes to C/P the answers into the send message field and press "send message"? Title + cache reference and footer are automatically filled in (GM script). Unless a CO is actually getting his mail at the very instant the logs are uploaded he/she will get the log notification and my answers at the same time. I don't wait for the API logging to complete before I start sending the mail. GSAK can handle itself by it's own after hitting "publish all" B)

 

2 minutes of course do not make a difference, however you created the impression that you first log and then spend time on obtaining the answers to be able to send them.

I have done Earthcaches where it took me more than an hour to come up with the answers I finally sent.

Of course there exist ECs where just writing down some words from a sign suffices, but that's not necessarily the norm.

Questions of the type "What is your explanation of what you can observe at this spot?" typically require more time to be spent when the average cacher spends at the cache site.

I even visited EC locations where I decided to refrain from logging a find as I felt that it was too tiresome for me to come up with reasonable answers and that decision was taken

at home after a while and not directly at the site.

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I have done Earthcaches where it took me more than an hour to come up with the answers I finally sent.

 

For the ones we did answers were found on or near information signs at the EC location. So answers are already written at the spot. As I keep record of all caches (found values and/or other info) I already have all data in digital form so C/P is all that's needed.

Any pictures are uploaded after "photoshopping/resizing" in the days after logging or sometimes also during logging via GSAK + API together with any trackables.

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I never wait to log an EC. Getting back in the evening I connect my GPS to the computer with GSAK, import geocache_visits.txt, write my logs and publish them through the API. I then send (a) mail(s) to the CO(s).

I think it is much better style to first send the answers and then log the find. The instruction by the GSA says the same.

It's like first signing the log sheet and then logging a find and not the other way round.

As if 2 minutes makes the difference.

Exactly. That's why it makes sense for you to delay your logging for 2 minutes while you send in your answers rather than assume your answers will always be delayed long enough so they don't get there before the CO can react to the found notification without the answers. Putting the CO in that position would be rude, no matter how infrequently it happens.

 

Of course, I'm taking your position at face value and believing that you never, ever get distracted before you send in your answers, or that you never discover that you don't actually have the answers you thought you did.

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I've been planning a trip to Europe and one of the Earthcaches I looked at contained the instruction

 

"You may NOT log the cache before receiving approval."

 

Is this permitted? If I do log before approval can the CO delete my log?

 

When I'm on holiday I like to log all my finds each day, so I don't get too far behind, and I log them in the order they are found. Unless this happens to be my last find of the day, logging it last will mess up the order of my finds and will mess up my distance statistics.

 

What are the rules here, please?

 

Thanks

 

Tony

 

You can log it as long as you've sent the responses to the cache owner.

 

They shouldn't have that on the cache page, but it's a common mistake. There are still Earthcache owners who demand photos as well.

 

For an Earthcache owner like that, make sure you use the Groundspeak email system, make sure a copy is sent to you, and do not include your email address for reply - this forces them to send any communications to you through the site. You likely won't have problems, but if you do, you'll have a record showing that you send your responses on time.

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I have done Earthcaches where it took me more than an hour to come up with the answers I finally sent.

 

For the ones we did answers were found on or near information signs at the EC location. So answers are already written at the spot.

 

Then you apparently did only very easy and older ECs. Many newer EC have a different type of logging tasks that require some time spent with pondering about what

one's personal answer could be. For example one could need to decide which variety of a mineral is found at the location or which types of weatherings are visible at the location etc

Visiting the location and making observations is only one part of the effort to be invested.

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Then you apparently did only very easy and older ECs. Many newer EC have a different type of logging tasks that require some time spent with pondering about what

one's personal answer could be. For example one could need to decide which variety of a mineral is found at the location or which types of weatherings are visible at the location etc

Visiting the location and making observations is only one part of the effort to be invested.

 

There are not that many EC's around (73 in Belgium we haven't found). We don't specially go looking for them but "pick them up" when we come across them. On holiday they tend to be in places tourists would go to. Just as an example: logged in Venice, answers: a year and name of the building. One in Greenland, answer: height on GPS and material we were standing on. Another in Greenland, answer: a word on a sign. You see, no rocket science and answers take just minutes if not seconds.

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There are not that many EC's around (73 in Belgium we haven't found). We don't specially go looking for them but "pick them up" when we come across them. On holiday they tend to be in places tourists would go to. Just as an example: logged in Venice, answers: a year and name of the building. One in Greenland, answer: height on GPS and material we were standing on. Another in Greenland, answer: a word on a sign. You see, no rocket science and answers take just minutes if not seconds.

 

At least the ones from Greenland are old indeed (for ECs). Try to get published an EC with such logging tasks in 2015 and you will most probably fail.

 

As a good example of an Ec with geological logging tasks which is available in English is this one

http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC3Q2R9_earthquake-evidence-at-ancient-ayla

The average cacher who is not a geologist will spend more than a few seconds, but that does not mean that it's rocket science - it just teaches something about geology which is not the case if you just have to send in some word from a sign or a height reading from the GPS.

Edited by cezanne

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At least the ones from Greenland are old indeed (for ECs). Try to get published an EC with such logging tasks in 2015 and you will most probably fail.

 

The average cacher who is not a geologist will spend more than a few seconds, but that does not mean that it's rocket science - it just teaches something about geology which is not the case if you just have to send in some word from a sign or a height reading from the GPS.

 

OK, EC Eqi is 5 years old and I think it's a perfect example of an EC location. Posting pictures gives people a good idea of what global warming is doing. Look at the pictures posted in August 2010 and compare to mine. The difference is huge.

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At least the ones from Greenland are old indeed (for ECs). Try to get published an EC with such logging tasks in 2015 and you will most probably fail.

 

The average cacher who is not a geologist will spend more than a few seconds, but that does not mean that it's rocket science - it just teaches something about geology which is not the case if you just have to send in some word from a sign or a height reading from the GPS.

 

OK, EC Eqi is 5 years old and I think it's a perfect example of an EC location. Posting pictures gives people a good idea of what global warming is doing. Look at the pictures posted in August 2010 and compare to mine. The difference is huge.

 

I have ooked at it already before. The cache would not teach me anything I'm not already aware of. It's rather a virtual cache in disguise (as EC) in my opinion. The terratin cache however teaches people like me something new.

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I normally hold off on logging EarthCaches as found until after I send the email to the owner with the questions. Most EarthCaches around me are already in locations where I don't have cell or data service on my phone, so I wait until I get home that day until I log.

 

The problem I see with "waiting until the owner approves your find" is what if the owner stops maintaining the cache? Of the couple EarthCaches I have done, they are in very busy locations (National Parks) and doubt the owner still maintains the cache. If you follow those instructions, the cache owner may never get back to you to "approve" you finding the cache. Send the answers and then log your visit.

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The problem I see with "waiting until the owner approves your find" is what if the owner stops maintaining the cache?

Yep, that's a problem. Although I wouldn't dream of holding anyone else to it, I tend to always follow the CO's requests, whether it's waiting for confirmation or posting a picture or anything else they can't really hold me to. But at the same time, when the CO says I have to wait for approval, I take that as a promise that they'll respond quickly, so if I don't get an answer by the next day, I log the find, assuming they aren't watching anymore.

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I almost never log caches in the field. I write down notes while I'm out, then I log in order when I get back. When an earthcache or virtual cache come up, I open an extra tab, drop a quick note to the owner with the required information, and then log. As far as waiting for owner confirmation, never have, never will.

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As far as waiting for owner confirmation, never have, never will.

 

While there is no need to wait for a confirmation for ECs, I prefer to wait in those cases where I'm not sure that my answers ar reasonably good. I also wait with a found it log it log until I hear back from the hider in case of a physical cache where what I found makes me believe that I might not have found a different container with a log book and logs but not the one I was supposed to find.

The two situations are perfectly comparable to me. It makes more sense to me to turn a note into a found it at a later time than doing it the other way round.

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