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Caching Restrictions Applied to Central Florida


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We cache in central Florida. There is a defunct housing subdivision near us that is several miles square. It currently is home to over 200 caches dating back to 2001. We being told that Groundspeak is banning all caches in this 15 square mile area due to one homeowner. Who do we contact to understand all of the details? Is that something that can be elaborated upon here?

 

timandweze

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I really don't get the issue here... what is wrong? I am personally not a fan of power trails but why would people be that disgruntled about it?

 

Caches have been archived that were placed on country roads because a neighbour/resident complained.

 

This is a rather strange "development". There are houses here and there, but it is basically "empty". However, one resident posted threatening notes on the cache pages. That's enough to shut this down.

 

I can understand why someone in this development would get ticked off. There can't be much in the way of traffic, other than residents. So seeing strangers driving around would cause alarm.

 

Doesn't matter if "we" understand the reasons for disgruntlement. This is not the attention that GS wants.

 

 

B.

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Wow, not often I agree with swineflew, but yeah, that's nuts.

 

Satellite view shows houses here and there. But overall the place looks mighty empty. Defunct or exclusive?

 

B.

 

Exactly, very few houses in the area and it looks like the caches aren't where they would really be a nuisance. Hm, this is really a crazy case.

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I really don't get the issue here... what is wrong? I am personally not a fan of power trails but why would people be that disgruntled about it?

 

Its a powertrail in a neighborhood... hundreds of them on every street.

 

I am not against powertrail as a whole but I am against placing hundreds of them too close to people homes. One cache in a neighborhood doesn't bring that much traffic, but pwoertrail do because power cachers will drive a long distance to do them. And they are in a hurry to do as many they can in one day and not think about stealth.

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What's so crazy about it? It's not the first power trail in a residential area to be mass-archived, and it likely won't be the last - if people keep hiding large series of very muggle-noticeable caches without making permission arrangements.

 

A better thread title would be "another power trail archived!" as there are surely many places in Central Florida without "caching restrictions" above and beyond the listing guidelines and the published land manager policies.

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I really don't get the issue here... what is wrong? I am personally not a fan of power trails but why would people be that disgruntled about it?

Did you read the link provided above?

Disgruntled neighbors or not, it does seem as though somebody may have ended up being hurt... most likely a geocacher unaware of the situation.

I don't think TPTB want that on their shoulders.

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I agree completely that this kind of power trail should be archived. We had one in NE Ohio that got archived, too, and I supported that. Power trails don't belong in places where they disturb residents, even if they were on public property like the one in NE Ohio. I don't blame residents for being unhappy with groups of cachers invading their neighborhoods by the carload.

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Many of you have replied without knowing all of the facts. There are not hundreds of caches on each street. Each cache that I've found has been carefully placed so that you can't see an existing home from where you park or search. I'm not sure if there is an official definition of a powertrail but for 80% of the caches you have to get out and really search. The difficulty ratings as high as a legitimate 4.5. Many of the caches are not on private property. My wife and I have been there 4 or 5 times in the past year and you just don't see other people. It is a defunct housing development with thousands of acres of undeveloped land. Many of the roads have tall grass growing up through the concrete. I read the notification in that cache from Groundspeak and it sounds like they are over reacting. This is about 1 resident in a small area. Banning caching in an area that large seems to be overkill.

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Many of you have replied without knowing all of the facts. There are not hundreds of caches on each street. Each cache that I've found has been carefully placed so that you can't see an existing home from where you park or search. I'm not sure if there is an official definition of a powertrail but for 80% of the caches you have to get out and really search. The difficulty ratings as high as a legitimate 4.5. Many of the caches are not on private property. My wife and I have been there 4 or 5 times in the past year and you just don't see other people. It is a defunct housing development with thousands of acres of undeveloped land. Many of the roads have tall grass growing up through the concrete. I read the notification in that cache from Groundspeak and it sounds like they are over reacting. This is about 1 resident in a small area. Banning caching in an area that large seems to be overkill.

Sigh... there are hundreds of them on every street thats available in the area. It might be true that there is no homes where GZ is...but get this, I used to build homes in the deep south and I know fla... many people from the north buy property where its warm and when they are ready to retire, they will be building their dream home. So, people do own those empty lots even its full of tall grass. The people that do live there now like their privacy too much and yes, their welcome mat might be a gun pointing at you.

 

I look up a few caches and they some are on private property.

 

And, its a powertrail! I dont care how you break it down, its still a powertrail.

 

If some of the difficulty rating is that high, thats another problem on it own, it means people are hanging out at one given location too long.

 

And I am not done, when there is alot of caches in one given area, it mean cachers are in one given area from sunrise to sunset and very likely after dark. People that do powertrail really do push themselves to get at many as they can in one day.

 

I done powertrails in Texas, but never where people live. However, I always been stop by someone and asking what I am doing. Every time. :blink: I was doing pwoertails in Texas, it was in the heart of oil country and nobody live out there, but the oil truckers are out there 24/7 and they knew I was out there and they act like they know about me. They got CB radios. :unsure::ph34r::unsure: There is nothing sheath in powertrails!! You are a sitting duck in other words.

 

Even you are in a "remote" area, someone is going to wonder what you are doing out there. IE: powertrail in Colorado where the farmers and ranchers are getting upset. :ph34r: Many farmers/ranchers do own the land where the road is on. I know its that way in Oregon.

 

Its sad that someone ignorant of blanketing the whole given area with caches and now caching is banned for life in that area. :ph34r: Just because you can do it doesn't mean its a good idea. When I place caches, I think of neighbors.

Edited by SwineFlew
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What's the acceptable minimum number of armed confrontations by an angry homeowner before you would tip the balance in favor of archiving the caches in that one neighborhood?

One...thats all it takes. You never know how many crazy people out there that they been skipping their med.

 

Happen to me. Once. The cache got archived by the reviewer within a few hours.

 

No powertrail. There been a long history of two neighbors that hate each other and the CO decided to place a cache on his property to upset his neighbor. This neighbor confront every cachers that was there. I asked him this question, are there some long history between you two neighbors and he said yes and he said he feels the cache there was just to rub it in his face!! :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: There is no reason to put cachers in the between two neighbors like that. The angry neighbor did have a gun in his large coat pocket and it was pointing at me. I can see it. He was one of those crazy people that I dont trust with a gun. He was giving me the knowing look and trying to tell me that hes armed.

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What's so crazy about it? It's not the first power trail in a residential area to be mass-archived, and it likely won't be the last - if people keep hiding large series of very muggle-noticeable caches without making permission arrangements.

 

A better thread title would be "another power trail archived!" as there are surely many places in Central Florida without "caching restrictions" above and beyond the listing guidelines and the published land manager policies.

 

Yep. It's yet another case where the placement of as many caches as possible in an area has causes issues with local residents or land managers, yet some geocachers still seem to think that more is always better.

 

 

 

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What's so crazy about it? It's not the first power trail in a residential area to be mass-archived, and it likely won't be the last - if people keep hiding large series of very muggle-noticeable caches without making permission arrangements.

 

A better thread title would be "another power trail archived!" as there are surely many places in Central Florida without "caching restrictions" above and beyond the listing guidelines and the published land manager policies.

 

Yep. It's yet another case where the placement of as many caches as possible in an area has causes issues with local residents or land managers, yet some geocachers still seem to think that more is always better.

 

More is not always better, I'd never want more than one wife, heck, even one is too much sometimes.

 

For the record I wouldn't call that a power trail, maybe a first grade geoart, but not a power trail.

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Is there something about Florida? Lots of boom & bust real estate projects?

 

The caches in question were hit by a lot of cachers travelling together after an event. That's often a sure way to draw the attention of residents/locals.

 

And now there's another series by the same co, looks to be the same situation of a "defunct" real estate development. This series has also been the target of a post-event group caching expedition.

 

0c09b83b-939c-42d9-9403-aa6364f7f592_l.jpg

 

B.

Edited by Pup Patrol
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I took a screenshot so people here and see what it really look like before they all get archived.

 

Wow...just%20wow_zps3tuohehc.jpg

 

That's revolting!

 

I wouldn't want something like that in my neighborhood either!

 

If that kind of thing ever gets popular in this area, it will make me embarrassed to be known as a geocacher!

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The "home owner" posted notes that the caches had been "removed", yet people are still logging them as "found" as of yesterday, though they are supposed to be "archived".

 

Archive note was missing from the cache page I just looked at.

 

And another series is active in the same area. (screenshot I posted above)

 

?

 

 

B.

Edited by Pup Patrol
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What's so crazy about it? It's not the first power trail in a residential area to be mass-archived, and it likely won't be the last - if people keep hiding large series of very muggle-noticeable caches without making permission arrangements.

 

A better thread title would be "another power trail archived!" as there are surely many places in Central Florida without "caching restrictions" above and beyond the listing guidelines and the published land manager policies.

 

Yep. It's yet another case where the placement of as many caches as possible in an area has causes issues with local residents or land managers, yet some geocachers still seem to think that more is always better.

 

More is not always better, I'd never want more than one wife, heck, even one is too much sometimes.

 

For the record I wouldn't call that a power trail, maybe a first grade geoart, but not a power trail.

I disagree... I still feel that geoart fall under power trail.

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What's so crazy about it? It's not the first power trail in a residential area to be mass-archived, and it likely won't be the last - if people keep hiding large series of very muggle-noticeable caches without making permission arrangements.

 

A better thread title would be "another power trail archived!" as there are surely many places in Central Florida without "caching restrictions" above and beyond the listing guidelines and the published land manager policies.

 

Yep. It's yet another case where the placement of as many caches as possible in an area has causes issues with local residents or land managers, yet some geocachers still seem to think that more is always better.

 

More is not always better, I'd never want more than one wife, heck, even one is too much sometimes.

 

For the record I wouldn't call that a power trail, maybe a first grade geoart, but not a power trail.

I disagree... I still feel that geoart fall under power trail.

 

traditional cache geoart I would not consider a PT, a mystery cache geoart could be but I don't consider 200 varying container and difficulty caches a PT, I'd just call them extreme saturation.

Edited by Roman!
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What's so crazy about it? It's not the first power trail in a residential area to be mass-archived, and it likely won't be the last - if people keep hiding large series of very muggle-noticeable caches without making permission arrangements.

 

A better thread title would be "another power trail archived!" as there are surely many places in Central Florida without "caching restrictions" above and beyond the listing guidelines and the published land manager policies.

 

Yep. It's yet another case where the placement of as many caches as possible in an area has causes issues with local residents or land managers, yet some geocachers still seem to think that more is always better.

 

More is not always better, I'd never want more than one wife, heck, even one is too much sometimes.

 

For the record I wouldn't call that a power trail, maybe a first grade geoart, but not a power trail.

I disagree... I still feel that geoart fall under power trail.

 

I don't see a fundamental difference between a geoart and a power trail either. Zoom out a little on that map you'll see several linear power trails. Calling it something other than a power trail doesn't make it immune to the negative impact of placing an excessive number of geocaches in one area.

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I don't see a fundamental difference between a geoart and a power trail either. Zoom out a little on that map you'll see several linear power trails. Calling it something other than a power trail doesn't make it immune to the negative impact of placing an excessive number of geocaches in one area.

Power trails are designed for quick finds and are not intended to have any redeeming features. Geoart may or may not be intended for quick finds, but their primary redeeming feature is location of posted coordinates.

 

What timandweze describes in this case is just a bunch of normal caches with high density, neither power trail nor geoart.

 

Having said that, the issue here is the high density, not whether it's a power trail.

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Has anyone tried to contact the home owner to resolve the problem? (The archive note talks as if there's a mob of home owners, but reading the available information makes me suspect it's just one person causing all the trouble.) This is one of those areas where I'd think people would be happy to have a little bit of traffic to make it less attractive to people up to no good.

 

I'm also wondering what the actual status of this area is. Are these public roads or aren't they? If they aren't, then obviously there's a problem. But if they are public, I'm not too worried about people taking pictures and threatening to call 911. And, yeah, I'm worried about them threatening people with guns (although I didn't find a description of that, just a reference to it), but I'm equally worried about such threats whether or not there are geocaches in the area.

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I get it now. Makes more sense after I considered that car loads of geocachers would be romping around al day and night. That many caches and finders is obnoxious. In my area existing caches don't get many finders, maybe 1-3 a month so they really aren't much of a disturbance to the neighbors. GS did the right thing here.

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My original question was about how to contact someone in Groundspeak to ask questions about the decision. The only thing I saw close to that was the link to the cache with the note in it. I will try to message her directly. In the meantime several people decided to hijack the thread and turn it into a discussion about the pros and cons of powertrails. Others published misleading or exaggerated information. So I'll stop following this thread. Thanks anyway.

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My original question was about how to contact someone in Groundspeak to ask questions about the decision. The only thing I saw close to that was the link to the cache with the note in it. I will try to message her directly. In the meantime several people decided to hijack the thread and turn it into a discussion about the pros and cons of powertrails. Others published misleading or exaggerated information. So I'll stop following this thread. Thanks anyway.

Be aware.... SOME of those "misleading or exaggerated" posters are reviewers! I'm fairly sure they know...

Edited by Gitchee-Gummee
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What's so crazy about it? It's not the first power trail in a residential area to be mass-archived, and it likely won't be the last - if people keep hiding large series of very muggle-noticeable caches without making permission arrangements.

 

A better thread title would be "another power trail archived!" as there are surely many places in Central Florida without "caching restrictions" above and beyond the listing guidelines and the published land manager policies.

 

Yep. It's yet another case where the placement of as many caches as possible in an area has causes issues with local residents or land managers, yet some geocachers still seem to think that more is always better.

 

More is not always better, I'd never want more than one wife, heck, even one is too much sometimes.

 

For the record I wouldn't call that a power trail, maybe a first grade geoart, but not a power trail.

I disagree... I still feel that geoart fall under power trail.

 

If its true that the difficulty ratings on some/many of them were up there, as the OP stated, then I would not call it a power trail. If it is geoart, it is abstract geoart. But regardless... it is carpet bombing... cache saturation that would never have been allowed at one time.

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What's so crazy about it? It's not the first power trail in a residential area to be mass-archived, and it likely won't be the last - if people keep hiding large series of very muggle-noticeable caches without making permission arrangements.

 

A better thread title would be "another power trail archived!" as there are surely many places in Central Florida without "caching restrictions" above and beyond the listing guidelines and the published land manager policies.

 

Yep. It's yet another case where the placement of as many caches as possible in an area has causes issues with local residents or land managers, yet some geocachers still seem to think that more is always better.

 

More is not always better, I'd never want more than one wife, heck, even one is too much sometimes.

 

For the record I wouldn't call that a power trail, maybe a first grade geoart, but not a power trail.

I disagree... I still feel that geoart fall under power trail.

 

If its true that the difficulty ratings on some/many of them were up there, as the OP stated, then I would not call it a power trail. If it is geoart, it is abstract geoart. But regardless... it is carpet bombing... cache saturation that would never have been allowed at one time.

 

Oh god, I agree with the dog.

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What's so crazy about it? It's not the first power trail in a residential area to be mass-archived, and it likely won't be the last - if people keep hiding large series of very muggle-noticeable caches without making permission arrangements.

 

A better thread title would be "another power trail archived!" as there are surely many places in Central Florida without "caching restrictions" above and beyond the listing guidelines and the published land manager policies.

 

Yep. It's yet another case where the placement of as many caches as possible in an area has causes issues with local residents or land managers, yet some geocachers still seem to think that more is always better.

 

More is not always better, I'd never want more than one wife, heck, even one is too much sometimes.

 

For the record I wouldn't call that a power trail, maybe a first grade geoart, but not a power trail.

I disagree... I still feel that geoart fall under power trail.

 

If its true that the difficulty ratings on some/many of them were up there, as the OP stated, then I would not call it a power trail. If it is geoart, it is abstract geoart. But regardless... it is carpet bombing... cache saturation that would never have been allowed at one time.

 

Oh god, I agree with the dog.

 

Oh Martha, It's the big one!

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This is one of those areas where I'd think people would be happy to have a little bit of traffic to make it less attractive to people up to no good.

How exactly will the residents be able to tell the difference between "people up to no good" and geocachers? We don't exactly wear uniforms or carry badges. And both groups often look like they're "casing the area".

 

--Larry

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We cache in central Florida. There is a defunct housing subdivision near us that is several miles square. It currently is home to over 200 caches dating back to 2001. We being told that Groundspeak is banning all caches in this 15 square mile area due to one homeowner. Who do we contact to understand all of the details? Is that something that can be elaborated upon here?

 

timandweze

 

 

 

 

 

BOO HISS on Groundspeak caring more about non-geocachers than they do the geo-members that pay their salaries!!!!! This response to one complainer is obsurd.

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BOO HISS on Groundspeak caring more about non-geocachers than they do the geo-members that pay their salaries!!!!! This response to one complainer is obsurd.
To quote Keystone...

 

What's the acceptable minimum number of armed confrontations by an angry homeowner before you would tip the balance in favor of archiving the caches in that one neighborhood?
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BOO HISS on Groundspeak caring more about non-geocachers than they do the geo-members that pay their salaries!!!!! This response to one complainer is obsurd.

Really!?!

 

Just where would geocaching be today if they never worked to appease the general public?

If they (Groundspeak AND us geocachers) don't work to provide some sort of equitable balance, I am fairly sure that geocaching as we know it would cease to exist.

 

Perhaps that would make you feel better.

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Just because a piece of property contains no buildings, is not fenced, and is not posted with No Trespassing signs dies not mean it is public property. Unless it is public property like a park, preserve, or other government property then an individual or company owns it.

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What's so crazy about it? It's not the first power trail in a residential area to be mass-archived, and it likely won't be the last - if people keep hiding large series of very muggle-noticeable caches without making permission arrangements.

 

A better thread title would be "another power trail archived!" as there are surely many places in Central Florida without "caching restrictions" above and beyond the listing guidelines and the published land manager policies.

 

Yep. It's yet another case where the placement of as many caches as possible in an area has causes issues with local residents or land managers, yet some geocachers still seem to think that more is always better.

 

More is not always better, I'd never want more than one wife, heck, even one is too much sometimes.

 

For the record I wouldn't call that a power trail, maybe a first grade geoart, but not a power trail.

I disagree... I still feel that geoart fall under power trail.

 

If its true that the difficulty ratings on some/many of them were up there, as the OP stated, then I would not call it a power trail. If it is geoart, it is abstract geoart. But regardless... it is carpet bombing... cache saturation that would never have been allowed at one time.

 

Oh god, I agree with the dog.

 

OK... I take it all back. It is definitely a geoart powertrail!

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Groundspeak cares about geocachers who are confronted by angry homeowners; they would like to avoid this happening to you.

 

BOO HISS on cache owners who hide large numbers of caches in residential areas without permission.

 

While I do totally agree with what you said, I do think that it fair to ask if the hider(s) were supposed to get permission for all of those caches from the one person that complained. Was it their property that the caches were hidden on? I suppose it is possible that the party that complained was the developer that owned all of those lots, but we don't know this.

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I get it now. Makes more sense after I considered that car loads of geocachers would be romping around al day and night. That many caches and finders is obnoxious. In my area existing caches don't get many finders, maybe 1-3 a month so they really aren't much of a disturbance to the neighbors. GS did the right thing here.

My problem with what you're saying is that a hoard of geocachers from a nearby event could have visited any cache and caused a local to throw a fit. So I think the event hoard argument is something of a red herring. If there were a mega-event in your area, could the same thing happen to one of those existing caches you mention?

 

This is one of those areas where I'd think people would be happy to have a little bit of traffic to make it less attractive to people up to no good.

How exactly will the residents be able to tell the difference between "people up to no good" and geocachers? We don't exactly wear uniforms or carry badges. And both groups often look like they're "casing the area".

Are you asking which visitors to the area the residents would know to shoot at?

 

The idea is that geocachers are in the area for reasons not related to tormenting the locals, so with more people like that in the neighborhood beyond the handful of residents, the less interesting the area will be to people that want to do something nefarious. So the locals wouldn't need to tell the difference because the people they'd want to shoot wouldn't be there to begin with.

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I don't see a fundamental difference between a geoart and a power trail either. Zoom out a little on that map you'll see several linear power trails. Calling it something other than a power trail doesn't make it immune to the negative impact of placing an excessive number of geocaches in one area.

Power trails are designed for quick finds and are not intended to have any redeeming features. Geoart may or may not be intended for quick finds, but their primary redeeming feature is location of posted coordinates.

 

What timandweze describes in this case is just a bunch of normal caches with high density, neither power trail nor geoart.

 

Having said that, the issue here is the high density, not whether it's a power trail.

 

I agree. It's the high density of caches that brings large numbers of geocachers to places which might not be conducive to a lot of extra traffic. The debate over whether it' a power trail or geoart or calling it something else is just a smoke screen.

 

 

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The idea is that geocachers are in the area for reasons not related to tormenting the locals, so with more people like that in the neighborhood beyond the handful of residents, the less interesting the area will be to people that want to do something nefarious. So the locals wouldn't need to tell the difference because the people they'd want to shoot wouldn't be there to begin with.

More people like what? How could a homeowner possibly know the reason someone is skulking around their neighborhood?

 

I ask again, how will they know the difference between geocachers and crooks? Please tell me what differentiates the two groups from the perspective of homeowners looking for suspicious activity?

 

Maybe if we all wore the same uniform, carried official geocaching ID badges and drove around in marked Scooby Vans....

 

--Larry

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The idea is that geocachers are in the area for reasons not related to tormenting the locals, so with more people like that in the neighborhood beyond the handful of residents, the less interesting the area will be to people that want to do something nefarious. So the locals wouldn't need to tell the difference because the people they'd want to shoot wouldn't be there to begin with.

More people like what? How could a homeowner possibly know the reason someone is skulking around their neighborhood?

 

I ask again, how will they know the difference between geocachers and crooks? Please tell me what differentiates the two groups from the perspective of homeowners looking for suspicious activity?

 

Maybe if we all wore the same uniform, carried official geocaching ID badges and drove around in marked Scooby Vans....

 

--Larry

 

The geocachers are getting out of their car (or off their bicycles, or whatever) and looking around in the shrubs for something. The crooks are stealing stuff.

 

The local threatening with firearms is clearly in the wrong... you just don't DO that. But as geocachers, we need to take the high ground and simply walk away when somebody starts acting like that.

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