Double premium membership

[+Roman!]

Wait... this was a serious thread?

Yes, a serious whine about puzzle and multi caches being too much effort for him.

I knew we could count on "The Jester" for serious insights!

I'm Jest what you needed.

 

It's not about the effort, I have many mountain top finds I have spent the better part of a day hiking to.

 

It's about wasted effort, no where does it say I have to solve a puzzle or do all the stages of a multi to get a legitimate find hence to save me time I'd be willing to spend money, a lot of businesses are built on this model.

 

I would hate to waste better part of a day hiking up some stupid mountain to find a cache. I'd rather spend the time solving a few puzzles.

 

Would it be valid for me to get the right to log, say, 50 terrain 4+ caches each year from my armchair by paying some money? Of course not! That would be completely against the spirit of high-terrain caches.

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

Big difference, very bad analogy.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Roman!

[+GeoBain]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

[+SwineFlew]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

Alot cheaper than hotels, gas and car.

 

For 500 bucks, I can get all 50 states! Thats cheap!

Edited September 3, 2014 by SwineFlew

[+Roman!]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

 

GS has no right removing or moving other peoples caches, they do have a right to publish information posted to their sites.

 

If you don't like my idea fine but I don't see a point in your flawed and pointless suggestions.

[+GeoBain]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

 

GS has no right removing or moving other peoples caches, they do have a right to publish information posted to their sites.

 

If you don't like my idea fine but I don't see a point in your flawed and pointless suggestions.

 

What if the CO is on board with it? For a buck a cache, I think a lot of them would go for it.

[+Roman!]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

 

GS has no right removing or moving other peoples caches, they do have a right to publish information posted to their sites.

 

If you don't like my idea fine but I don't see a point in your flawed and pointless suggestions.

 

What if the CO is on board with it? For a buck a cache, I think a lot of them would go for it.

 

Well then, why not start another thread, it has nothing to do with my suggestion.

[+GeoBain]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

 

GS has no right removing or moving other peoples caches, they do have a right to publish information posted to their sites.

 

If you don't like my idea fine but I don't see a point in your flawed and pointless suggestions.

 

What if the CO is on board with it? For a buck a cache, I think a lot of them would go for it.

 

Well then, why not start another thread, it has nothing to do with my suggestion.

 

This seems like as good a place as any to discuss payments options. BTW, wouldn't the same argument apply to puzzle caches? GS has no right giving the final coordinates out with the CO's permission. So at some point, I think you're gonna have to cut the CO in for some of the profit.

[+Roman!]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

 

GS has no right removing or moving other peoples caches, they do have a right to publish information posted to their sites.

 

If you don't like my idea fine but I don't see a point in your flawed and pointless suggestions.

 

What if the CO is on board with it? For a buck a cache, I think a lot of them would go for it.

 

Well then, why not start another thread, it has nothing to do with my suggestion.

 

This seems like as good a place as any to discuss payments options. BTW, wouldn't the same argument apply to puzzle caches? GS has no right giving the final coordinates out with the CO's permission. So at some point, I think you're gonna have to cut the CO in for some of the profit.

 

Actually they do.

 

The Rights You Grant Us to Your Content. By submitting content to our services, you grant Groundspeak a worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, and fully transferable and sublicensable right to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, and display such content in any media now known or created in the future. You agree that we have no obligation to monitor or protect your rights in any content that you may submit to us,

[+GeoBain]

Ok. So let's say they could theoretically offer up puzzle coordinates for a premium. Wouldn't you prefer mail order cache logs? Would you purchase if they offered it as part of a double premium+ package?

[+GeoBain]

If we get right down to it, GS makes the rules. What if they just removed the signed log requirement altogether?

[+Gill & Tony]

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

Big difference, very bad analogy.

 

Wrong! It's a perfectly valid analogy. The fact that there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it is irrelevant. There is a rule stating that no-one should publish the final co-ordinates of a puzzle or multi without the CO's permission.

 

For either of our suggestions to become fact there would have to be a rule change. No difference. Perfectly good analogy.

[+wmpastor]

Wait... this was a serious thread?

Yes, a serious whine about puzzle and multi caches being too much effort for him.

I knew we could count on "The Jester" for serious insights!

I'm Jest what you needed.

 

It's not about the effort, I have many mountain top finds I have spent the better part of a day hiking to.

 

It's about wasted effort, no where does it say I have to solve a puzzle or do all the stages of a multi to get a legitimate find hence to save me time I'd be willing to spend money, a lot of businesses are built on this model.

 

I would hate to waste better part of a day hiking up some stupid mountain to find a cache. I'd rather spend the time solving a few puzzles.

 

Would it be valid for me to get the right to log, say, 50 terrain 4+ caches each year from my armchair by paying some money? Of course not! That would be completely against the spirit of high-terrain caches.

 

Here's my theory. Our host knows that. He enjoys discussing options, possibilities. Even more, he enjoys seeing *us* discuss them. I think the subject's been covered, in my opinion.

[+Roman!]

Wait... this was a serious thread?

Yes, a serious whine about puzzle and multi caches being too much effort for him.

I knew we could count on "The Jester" for serious insights!

I'm Jest what you needed.

 

It's not about the effort, I have many mountain top finds I have spent the better part of a day hiking to.

 

It's about wasted effort, no where does it say I have to solve a puzzle or do all the stages of a multi to get a legitimate find hence to save me time I'd be willing to spend money, a lot of businesses are built on this model.

 

I would hate to waste better part of a day hiking up some stupid mountain to find a cache. I'd rather spend the time solving a few puzzles.

 

Would it be valid for me to get the right to log, say, 50 terrain 4+ caches each year from my armchair by paying some money? Of course not! That would be completely against the spirit of high-terrain caches.

 

Here's my theory. Our host knows that. He enjoys discussing options, possibilities. Even more, he enjoys seeing *us* discuss them. I think the subject's been covered, in my opinion.

 

Again wrong, the terms of use stating one cannot publish puzzle solutions is only for users of GS websites, It does not apply to GS.

 

They have every right to publish puzzles solutions to caches listed on their site. Wether they will is a whole new story.

[4wheelin_fool]

They have every right to publish puzzles solutions to caches listed on their site. Wether they will is a whole new story.

 

And you don't think that the puzzle owners might be just a little upset at Groundspeak for giving away the locations, as well as making money off of it?

[+Roman!]

They have every right to publish puzzles solutions to caches listed on their site. Wether they will is a whole new story.

 

And you don't think that the puzzle owners might be just a little upset at Groundspeak for giving away the locations, as well as making money off of it?

 

Maybe.....probably, but it's still a feature I'd like to see.

 

I learnt a long time ago from my wife that what I want and what I get are usually polar opposites.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Roman!

[+The Jester]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

 

GS has no right removing or moving other peoples caches, they do have a right to publish information posted to their sites.

 

If you don't like my idea fine but I don't see a point in your flawed and pointless suggestions.

You're right, let's stick to the flawed and pointless seggestions from the first post.

[+Roman!]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

 

GS has no right removing or moving other peoples caches, they do have a right to publish information posted to their sites.

 

If you don't like my idea fine but I don't see a point in your flawed and pointless suggestions.

You're right, let's stick to the flawed and pointless seggestions from the first post.

 

They are not flawed and as for pointless, maybe to you but not to me.

 

Clearly your need to disagree with me supersedes making a post that is even in the slightest way logical, I understand, you're not the first person that chooses to disagree with me simply for the fact of disagreeing with me.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Roman!

[+GeoBain]

What if we have the option of paying double, but instead of coordinates to puzzles, we get access to the platinum members lounge?

[+colleda]

If the coordinates were given away to anyone for the sake of an extra $30/year I'd have archived them.

That's what Triple Premium Membership is for. It prevents coords from being given to DPMO cachers.

 

Does it also get you the key to the lilly pad executive bathroom?

[+Roman!]

What if we have the option of paying double, but instead of coordinates to puzzles, we get access to the platinum members lounge?

 

I'd pay for that too, I am elitist.

[+GeoBain]

What if we have the option of paying double, but instead of coordinates to puzzles, we get access to the platinum members lounge?

 

I'd pay for that too, I am elitist.

 

Awesome. Then you have my vote! I always wondered what it looked like in there.

[+wmpastor]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

 

GS has no right removing or moving other peoples caches, they do have a right to publish information posted to their sites.

 

If you don't like my idea fine but I don't see a point in your flawed and pointless suggestions.

You're right, let's stick to the flawed and pointless seggestions from the first post.

 

They are not flawed and as for pointless, maybe to you but not to me.

 

Clearly your need to disagree with me supersedes making a post that is even in the slightest way logical, I understand, you're not the first person that chooses to disagree with me simply for the fact of disagreeing with me.

 

[+MKFmly]

And you don't think that the puzzle owners might be just a little upset at Groundspeak for giving away the locations, as well as making money off of it?

Is that not the current Groundspeak buisness model? Does it upset other cache owners, evidently not, so why are puzzle cache owners more special?

 

Back to the OP

 

At some point the effort and cost of avoiding solving puzzles, exceeds the effort and cost of solving puzzles...

Edited September 3, 2014 by MKFmly

[team tisri]

And you don't think that the puzzle owners might be just a little upset at Groundspeak for giving away the locations, as well as making money off of it?

Is that not the current Groundspeak buisness model? Does it upset other cache owners, evidently not, so why are puzzle cache owners more special?

 

Back to the OP

 

At some point the effort and cost of avoiding solving puzzles, exceeds the effort and cost of solving puzzles...

 

That's little more than a balance between the time cost and the cash cost of achieving something. It's up to the individual to figure how much it's worth paying to avoid the time it might take them to solve a puzzle for themselves.

 

If we're going to go down that route it would make more sense for the puzzle owners to set their own price for the answers, so they could offer a structure based on anything from "a heavy hint" to one half of the coordinates to the final answer. The more complex or involved the puzzle, the higher the price.

 

Maybe it would lead to a glut of fiendish puzzle caches, but if only a few people are ever interested in buying the answers it seems fairly unlikely.

[+Mudfrog]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

 

GS has no right removing or moving other peoples caches, they do have a right to publish information posted to their sites.

 

If you don't like my idea fine but I don't see a point in your flawed and pointless suggestions.

 

What if the CO is on board with it? For a buck a cache, I think a lot of them would go for it.

 

Well then, why not start another thread, it has nothing to do with my suggestion.

 

Sorry, but your suggestion sucks! I'd be mad if GS, or anyone else, started giving coordinates to the finals of caches i placed without my permission. They are my caches and no one has the right to give this information except me.

 

I place puzzles for a reason,, to engage a person's brain, to be challenging, and/or to add something a little different to the mix. It amazes me that some people think they have to find every cache. This is so simple,, forget about smiley count and ignore the caches you don't like.

[+The Jester]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

 

GS has no right removing or moving other peoples caches, they do have a right to publish information posted to their sites.

 

If you don't like my idea fine but I don't see a point in your flawed and pointless suggestions.

You're right, let's stick to the flawed and pointless seggestions from the first post.

 

They are not flawed and as for pointless, maybe to you but not to me.

 

Clearly your need to disagree with me supersedes making a post that is even in the slightest way logical, I understand, you're not the first person that chooses to disagree with me simply for the fact of disagreeing with me.

OK, let's discuss your flawed and pointless suggestions.

 

Flawed: You keep saying GS could share the final coords if they wanted to. Wrong, that info is supplied to GS flagged as only available to owner and reviewers. It is only to be used to prevent saturation. As the cache owner I still own the data, I have just given GS some rights to publish with limits in place. So that argument is flawed.

 

Pointless: I seriously doubt you could find every cache that has been hidden - there are caches hidden beyond your abilities - so why are puzzle caches such a bug to you? They are part of the sub-set of caches you can't find (by your unwillingness to solve them), hence it's pointless to complain that you can'twon't find them and need another way to get them.

 

So, your suggestions are flawed and pointless. But any fantasy is worth talking about, for a while at least. Just don't expect everyone to take a fantasy seriously.

 

BTW, "too much effort" is the same as "wasted effort" when discussing if puzzles/multi's are too much for you. If you are not willing to expend the effort (mental or physical) to get a cache, than that cache is "too much effort".

[+wmpastor]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

 

GS has no right removing or moving other peoples caches, they do have a right to publish information posted to their sites.

 

If you don't like my idea fine but I don't see a point in your flawed and pointless suggestions.

You're right, let's stick to the flawed and pointless seggestions from the first post.

 

They are not flawed and as for pointless, maybe to you but not to me.

 

Clearly your need to disagree with me supersedes making a post that is even in the slightest way logical, I understand, you're not the first person that chooses to disagree with me simply for the fact of disagreeing with me.

OK, let's discuss your flawed and pointless suggestions.

 

Flawed: You keep saying GS could share the final coords if they wanted to. Wrong, that info is supplied to GS flagged as only available to owner and reviewers. It is only to be used to prevent saturation. As the cache owner I still own the data, I have just given GS some rights to publish with limits in place. So that argument is flawed.

 

Pointless: I seriously doubt you could find every cache that has been hidden - there are caches hidden beyond your abilities - so why are puzzle caches such a bug to you? They are part of the sub-set of caches you can't find (by your unwillingness to solve them), hence it's pointless to complain that you can'twon't find them and need another way to get them.

 

So, your suggestions are flawed and pointless. But any fantasy is worth talking about, for a while at least. Just don't expect everyone to take a fantasy seriously.

 

BTW, "too much effort" is the same as "wasted effort" when discussing if puzzles/multi's are too much for you. If you are not willing to expend the effort (mental or physical) to get a cache, than that cache is "too much effort".

 

Roman! has got you going! Hear that muffled "mwahahahahahaha" in the distance?! Oh, that's right, this is a serious discussion. Please continue.

[4wheelin_fool]

And you don't think that the puzzle owners might be just a little upset at Groundspeak for giving away the locations, as well as making money off of it?

Is that not the current Groundspeak buisness model? Does it upset other cache owners, evidently not, so why are puzzle cache owners more special?

 

The puzzles were not created with the expectation that the answers would be given away for a price. Even if there was an individualistic way to sell each one, with owners getting a share, this would be nightmarish scenario of inadvertently creating a black market for puzzle answers being sold cheaper somewhere else, as well as involving taxes. A more logical solution would rather be to encourage puzzle owners to show their solution somewhere, such as on a official Groundspeak endorsed webpage. There already are plenty that are willing to spoil their own puzzles, as evidenced by a few threads. Why not create an area where everyone can do this? You could look up the puzzles in your area and see who is participating. A wholesale release of that data done without explicit consent would enrage quite a few people.

[+MKFmly]

And you don't think that the puzzle owners might be just a little upset at Groundspeak for giving away the locations, as well as making money off of it?

 

Perhaps the "irony" was overlooked. Groundspeak is in the buisness of "giving away locations".

 

Today Groundspeak provides the final coordinates for: Traditional Geocaches, Virtual Caches, Letterbox Hybrids, All Event Cache Types, Webcam Caches, Earthcaches, and GPS Adventures Exhibits, and make money off it.

 

Today Groundspeak provides the final coordinates for: "Premium Member Only" (PMO) Caches (with permission), through premium membership and make money off it.

 

Notwithstanding, the ethical/moral considerations, the mechanics, and the implied current expectations between the CO and GS, why should mystery caches, multis, and whereigos be treated any different?

 

 

Hear that muffled "mwahahahahahaha" in the distance?! Oh, that's right, this is a serious discussion. Please continue.

+1

[+Chrysalides]

Notwithstanding, the ethical/moral considerations, the mechanics, and the implied current expectations between the CO and GS, why should mystery caches, multis, and whereigos be treated any different?

I don't think that's an appropriate comparison. A closer comparison would be Groundspeak selling how a 4 star difficulty traditional cache is hidden.

 

And to answer your question : yes, they should be treated differently, because that is by definition what they are.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Chrysalides

[4wheelin_fool]

And you don't think that the puzzle owners might be just a little upset at Groundspeak for giving away the locations, as well as making money off of it?

 

Perhaps the "irony" was overlooked. Groundspeak is in the buisness of "giving away locations".

 

Today Groundspeak provides the final coordinates for: Traditional Geocaches, Virtual Caches, Letterbox Hybrids, All Event Cache Types, Webcam Caches, Earthcaches, and GPS Adventures Exhibits, and make money off it.

 

Today Groundspeak provides the final coordinates for: "Premium Member Only" (PMO) Caches (with permission), through premium membership and make money off it.

 

Notwithstanding, the ethical/moral considerations, the mechanics, and the implied current expectations between the CO and GS, why should mystery caches, multis, and whereigos be treated any different?

 

 

Because that would make them traditionals.

[+MKFmly]

Because that would make them traditionals.

Sure, that is one perception. Cachers pay for the final locations of PMO caches, why should the others be treated differently?

[+Chrysalides]

Because that would make them traditionals.

Sure, that is one perception. Cachers pay for the final locations of PMO caches, why should the others be treated differently?

Cachers don't pay for the final location of PMO puzzle, multi and Wherigo caches.

[+Team V3]

If you can find the cache without solving the puzzle then you can claim the smiley. If the Cache owner wants you to solve the puzzle then you either gotta take the time to do it or think of another way to get the coordinates. :)There are plenty of caches around where you do not have to solve puzzles. Why not just do those ones?

 

 

 

Wait... this was a serious thread?

Yes, a serious whine about puzzle and multi caches being too much effort for him.

I knew we could count on "The Jester" for serious insights!

I'm Jest what you needed.

 

It's not about the effort, I have many mountain top finds I have spent the better part of a day hiking to.

 

It's about wasted effort, no where does it say I have to solve a puzzle or do all the stages of a multi to get a legitimate find hence to save me time I'd be willing to spend money, a lot of businesses are built on this model.

[+Chrysalides]

If you can find the cache without solving the puzzle then you can claim the smiley. If the Cache owner wants you to solve the puzzle then you either gotta take the time to do it or think of another way to get the coordinates. :)There are plenty of caches around where you do not have to solve puzzles. Why not just do those ones?

Then he can't start a thread that has gotten 134 replies so far.

[+GeoBain]

Because that would make them traditionals.

Sure, that is one perception. Cachers pay for the final locations of PMO caches, why should the others be treated differently?

 

People can find and sign the logs of Challenge caches. Why should they be treated differently?

 

People can log smileys on events without signing a log book. Why should they be treated differently?

 

People can find caches without logging online. Why should they be treated differently?

 

I'm not sure I get your point.

 

People hide puzzles because they like puzzles. If they want to give the coordinates out, they can. But most puzzle creators, I'm guessing, would not desire this.

 

I'm still not sure what the real point of this thread is. I thought it was meant as a diversion from the serious threads. But the OP claims to be serious. If he is serious, then it seems it's a veiled attempt to discredit puzzle caches. If so, I really don't see the point.

 

Some like 'em, some don't. Put me with the non-puzzle people. But I just don't bother with them. I have no problem ignoring caches that don't interest me.

 

And if there was one that was just killing me to find, I know half a dozen people that would give me the coordinates for free. Not to mention that there are a number of spoiler sites around the interwebs.

 

So if you just gotta find puzzle caches without putting in the effort to solve the puzzles, there are already a number of options available.

 

Double premium seems pretty pointless to me. But that's just one man's opinion.

[+The Jester]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

 

GS has no right removing or moving other peoples caches, they do have a right to publish information posted to their sites.

 

If you don't like my idea fine but I don't see a point in your flawed and pointless suggestions.

You're right, let's stick to the flawed and pointless seggestions from the first post.

 

They are not flawed and as for pointless, maybe to you but not to me.

 

Clearly your need to disagree with me supersedes making a post that is even in the slightest way logical, I understand, you're not the first person that chooses to disagree with me simply for the fact of disagreeing with me.

OK, let's discuss your flawed and pointless suggestions.

 

Flawed: You keep saying GS could share the final coords if they wanted to. Wrong, that info is supplied to GS flagged as only available to owner and reviewers. It is only to be used to prevent saturation. As the cache owner I still own the data, I have just given GS some rights to publish with limits in place. So that argument is flawed.

 

Pointless: I seriously doubt you could find every cache that has been hidden - there are caches hidden beyond your abilities - so why are puzzle caches such a bug to you? They are part of the sub-set of caches you can't find (by your unwillingness to solve them), hence it's pointless to complain that you can'twon't find them and need another way to get them.

 

So, your suggestions are flawed and pointless. But any fantasy is worth talking about, for a while at least. Just don't expect everyone to take a fantasy seriously.

 

BTW, "too much effort" is the same as "wasted effort" when discussing if puzzles/multi's are too much for you. If you are not willing to expend the effort (mental or physical) to get a cache, than that cache is "too much effort".

 

Roman! has got you going! Hear that muffled "mwahahahahahaha" in the distance?! Oh, that's right, this is a serious discussion. Please continue.

Nope, not really going at all. I left out all the extra relating to his "not logical" comment as he hasn't displayed any logic in his posts. Nor have I dropped to his level of name calling, he may think it's witty to only imply the name calling, but he's only half right.

 

But I'm a big fan of fantasy, even if it is pointless and flawed.

[+wmpastor]

If you can find the cache without solving the puzzle then you can claim the smiley. If the Cache owner wants you to solve the puzzle then you either gotta take the time to do it or think of another way to get the coordinates. :)There are plenty of caches around where you do not have to solve puzzles. Why not just do those ones?

Then he can't start a thread that has gotten 134 replies so far.

Ha-ha! I've been voicing my suspicions also. We know this cat. We've got him profiled. Another successful thread to add to his accomplishments.

[+wmpastor]

 

And against the rules since you never signed the log but as I've stated there is no rule stating one has to solve a puzzle to log it.

 

 

How about $10/cache delivery service. $1 goes to the CO. $1 goes to GS. $8 covers shipping of the cache to you and back. That way you could sign the log in the comfort of your home.

 

GS has no right removing or moving other peoples caches, they do have a right to publish information posted to their sites.

 

If you don't like my idea fine but I don't see a point in your flawed and pointless suggestions.

You're right, let's stick to the flawed and pointless seggestions from the first post.

 

They are not flawed and as for pointless, maybe to you but not to me.

 

Clearly your need to disagree with me supersedes making a post that is even in the slightest way logical, I understand, you're not the first person that chooses to disagree with me simply for the fact of disagreeing with me.

OK, let's discuss your flawed and pointless suggestions.

 

Flawed: You keep saying GS could share the final coords if they wanted to. Wrong, that info is supplied to GS flagged as only available to owner and reviewers. It is only to be used to prevent saturation. As the cache owner I still own the data, I have just given GS some rights to publish with limits in place. So that argument is flawed.

 

Pointless: I seriously doubt you could find every cache that has been hidden - there are caches hidden beyond your abilities - so why are puzzle caches such a bug to you? They are part of the sub-set of caches you can't find (by your unwillingness to solve them), hence it's pointless to complain that you can'twon't find them and need another way to get them.

 

So, your suggestions are flawed and pointless. But any fantasy is worth talking about, for a while at least. Just don't expect everyone to take a fantasy seriously.

 

BTW, "too much effort" is the same as "wasted effort" when discussing if puzzles/multi's are too much for you. If you are not willing to expend the effort (mental or physical) to get a cache, than that cache is "too much effort".

 

Roman! has got you going! Hear that muffled "mwahahahahahaha" in the distance?! Oh, that's right, this is a serious discussion. Please continue.

Nope, not really going at all. I left out all the extra relating to his "not logical" comment as he hasn't displayed any logic in his posts. Nor have I dropped to his level of name calling, he may think it's witty to only imply the name calling, but he's only half right.

 

But I'm a big fan of fantasy, even if it is pointless and flawed.

Ok, glad you have things under control. If you're the Jester, maybe he's the Joker (from Batman).

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

If we get right down to it, GS makes the rules. What if they just removed the signed log requirement altogether?

Yeah, that didn't work out so well....

[+K13]

Will this new Double Premium membership include all the different cache icons and souvenirs as a part of the deal?

[+Roman!]

Will this new Double Premium membership include all the different cache icons and souvenirs as a part of the deal?

 

Nope

[+GeoBain]

Will this new Double Premium membership include all the different cache icons and souvenirs as a part of the deal?

 

Nope

 

Then at best it's a premium and a half.

Edited September 4, 2014 by GeoBain

[+Roman!]

Will this new Double Premium membership include all the different cache icons and souvenirs as a part of the deal?

 

Nope

 

Then at best it's a premium and a half.

 

Then @ $45/year it's even a better deal.

[+GeoBain]

Will this new Double Premium membership include all the different cache icons and souvenirs as a part of the deal?

 

Nope

 

Then at best it's a premium and a half.

 

Then @ $45/year it's even a better deal.

 

Now you're talkin'.

[+wmpastor]

Will this new Double Premium membership include all the different cache icons and souvenirs as a part of the deal?

 

Nope

 

Then at best it's a premium and a half.

 

Then @ $45/year it's even a better deal.

 

Now you're talkin'.

 

My latest theory is this. Headquarters recognized that no one can provoke an argument begin a stimulating discussion like Roman! Plus he has a modicum of respectability. The marketing department wanted to conduct a survey, so they hired him. Maybe not with a paycheck, but perhaps with perks (a free trip to the Block Party or something). This thread is the survey. The rest of us are like a focus group - except that in a focus group you get a crisp $100 bill at the end of the evening.

 

[+K13]

If you don't like the rules of the game, try to get the rules changed to something you do like. It matters not about those who like the rules as they currently exist.

[+Roman!]

If you don't like the rules of the game, try to get the rules changed to something you do like. It matters not about those who like the rules as they currently exist.

 

Things change all the time. GS is not going to change the rules just because of me but if it were a vast majority agreeing with me then maybe and if that were the case then the rules would be appeasing the masses of the game in which case you'd be trying to get the rules not changed from something you do like. It matters not about those who want the rules changed.

[+GeoBain]

The masses have been pushing for Platinum membership for years but nothing has come off it.

 

Or has it....

[+Roman!]

Will this new Double Premium membership include all the different cache icons and souvenirs as a part of the deal?

 

Nope

 

Then at best it's a premium and a half.

 

Then @ $45/year it's even a better deal.

 

Now you're talkin'.

 

My latest theory is this. Headquarters recognized that no one can provoke an argument begin a stimulating discussion like Roman! Plus he has a modicum of respectability. The marketing department wanted to conduct a survey, so they hired him. Maybe not with a paycheck, but perhaps with perks (a free trip to the Block Party or something). This thread is the survey. The rest of us are like a focus group - except that in a focus group you get a crisp $100 bill at the end of the evening.

 

 

Your onto me, they offered me a moderator position on this forum in exchange for my help, I'm thrilled to become a valuable contributor to the geocaching community.