Finding adopted caches

[+The Reformed Druids]

I would appreciate your views on the following situation.

 

A cacher is moving and adopts out his cache(s). Geocaching.com no longer reflects them as belonging to him (as the CO) as shown on the map but does still show them as having been placed by him on the cache pages. Is it kosher for him now to find and log those same caches?

 

Thanks.

TRD

[+Panther&Pine]

I think most of us think that is tacky.

[+cerberus1]

I think most of us think that is tacky.

+1

[+Bear and Ragged]

I don't think it's tacky.

 

I think it's VERY tacky!

[Andronicus]

Who said this?

"It is kind of like a toupee; you think it makes you look good, but everyone is laughing at you behind your back"

[+The Reformed Druids]

The early returns are in and rather confirm my thoughts. Thanks.

[Pup Patrol]

I don't think it's tacky.

 

I think it's VERY tacky!

 

Agree with the Bear's assessment.

 

 

B.

[+narcissa]

I don't think it's tacky. When a cache is adopted, it simply disappears from the original owner's stats and appears as an unfound cache. Marking it as "found" so it's still in your stats in some way seems reasonable enough to me. Seems rather judgmental to call that "tacky."

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

I agree with the others... but, if you aren't the one moving away, why concern yourself?

 

Or is it that you are the one moving?

 

 

EDIT to add: Don't answer that....

Edited June 11, 2014 by Gitchee-Gummee

[+niraD]

Has the adoptive cache owner changed anything about the cache yet? Or is the cache essentially the same as it was when the original owner owned it?

 

And is the original account an individual account? Or is it a group account? And if it's a group account, did everyone in the group hide the cache? Or was the cache hidden by only one/some of the group members?

[+Roman!]

It's like disowning your sister then marrying her, it's wrong.

[+terratin]

I could only imagine one kind of half valid reason for finding ones own (it's not finding, you know where they are) caches that have been adopted out: If it's necessary for a challenge for whatever weird reason.

[+Bear and Ragged]

I don't think it's tacky. When a cache is adopted, it simply disappears from the original owner's stats and appears as an unfound cache. Marking it as "found" so it's still in your stats in some way seems reasonable enough to me. Seems rather judgemental to call that "tacky."

 

If you're really into the numbers so much...

 

Archive it.

Then it stays as one of your cache numbers.

 

Nothing stopping the 'new' owner placing their own cache.

 

Then, the question is "Someone hid a cache where my archived cache was... Can I claim it as a find..?"

[+narcissa]

I don't think it's tacky. When a cache is adopted, it simply disappears from the original owner's stats and appears as an unfound cache. Marking it as "found" so it's still in your stats in some way seems reasonable enough to me. Seems rather judgemental to call that "tacky."

 

If you're really into the numbers so much...

 

Archive it.

Then it stays as one of your cache numbers.

 

Nothing stopping the 'new' owner placing their own cache.

 

Then, the question is "Someone hid a cache where my archived cache was... Can I claim it as a find..?"

 

Maybe it's just a nice legacy cache and the cacher owner is being responsible by letting someone adopt it?

 

Seems like the ones crying about it being "tacky" are the ones worried about numbers.

[+TriciaG]

It's "tacky" because you know where it is. How did you "find" it?

 

It's no less tacky than finding your own cache . . . because that's essentially what it is.

 

If you don't want an "unfound" cache showing up on your map, you can add it to your ignore list (if you're a PM).

[+narcissa]

It's "tacky" because you know where it is. How did you "find" it?

 

It's no less tacky than finding your own cache . . . because that's essentially what it is.

 

If you don't want an "unfound" cache showing up on your map, you can add it to your ignore list (if you're a PM).

 

And then there's absolutely no trace in your own account of a perfectly good cache that you used to own. Logging it as found is a harmless way to keep it in your personal records. It has no impact on anybody else.

 

I really don't understand the point of being so punitive and judgmental toward cache owners who are trying to do something responsible and nice by adopting out a legacy cache. What a vicious way to treat good cachers.

[+TriciaG]

I don't see it as punitive and vicious. Adopt away! I see it as keeping in mind what "found it" means. *shrug*

 

I don't get upset at it. Heck, I don't know that I've ever noticed a CO logging their cache (or the not-now-their cache) as a find. It's all academic to me.

 

I guess I see a bookmark (on the site itself or in a browser) as a better way to keep track of one's old caches than a Found It.

Edited June 11, 2014 by TriciaG

[+JesandTodd]

I wish GS would leave a copy of the caches in your hidden section of your stats, with it being listed as adopted. When you click on the cache it takes you to the owners page or the cache itself

 

Because once you adopt a cache out it disappears as if its never happened on your acct. that's sad

[+narcissa]

I wish GS would leave a copy of the caches in your hidden section of your stats, with it being listed as adopted. When you click on the cache it takes you to the owners page or the cache itself

 

Because once you adopt a cache out it disappears as if its never happened on your acct. that's sad

 

Exactly. I've never adopted out a cache, but I was recently chatting with another cacher who won't adopt out their caches specifically because of this issue. It just seems ridiculous that the site offers no way to do this.

 

It would also be helpful for people who have joint ownership of caches. Instead of having the FTF hounds and whiny competitive cachers get their feathers all ruffled because a joint cache owner logged it as found, why not allow joint ownership to be tracked on the site?

[+Panther&Pine]

It's "tacky" because you know where it is. How did you "find" it?

 

It's no less tacky than finding your own cache . . . because that's essentially what it is.

 

If you don't want an "unfound" cache showing up on your map, you can add it to your ignore list (if you're a PM).

 

And then there's absolutely no trace in your own account of a perfectly good cache that you used to own. Logging it as found is a harmless way to keep it in your personal records. It has no impact on anybody else.

 

I really don't understand the point of being so punitive and judgmental toward cache owners who are trying to do something responsible and nice by adopting out a legacy cache. What a vicious way to treat good cachers.

I can see adopting a cache you've found, I've done that, and then adopted them on when I moved. But it would be super silly for me to go find the caches I placed earlier this year and just adopted out before moving tomorrow (I'm supposed to be packing....).

[+DanOCan]

If someone wants to go and actually find their old caches after they have been adopted and log them? I don't care as it doesn't affect me in any way.

 

If someone adopts out their caches and then just armchair logs them? It could affect me if the armchair log creates a false impression that the cache is in place when it could actually be missing, but other than that? Nope, doesn't affect me so I don't care.

[+geodarts]

I wish GS would leave a copy of the caches in your hidden section of your stats, with it being listed as adopted. When you click on the cache it takes you to the owners page or the cache itself

 

Because once you adopt a cache out it disappears as if its never happened on your acct. that's sad

 

Good point. I recently archived a cache that was about ten years old - it had the most finds for a cache in my state but my both my work location and the cache site had changed so maintaining it was problematic. I decided not to try to have it adopted because I liked having that recorded as part of my caching history.

 

I have adopted a few caches over the years, but the former COs have never logged them. I would do (or not do) the same thing, but if they had chosen to do otherwise I would not have given it much thought. In the end, it would have been a personal decision about how they wanted to handle that situation.

Edited June 11, 2014 by geodarts

[+biggles1024]

I have 20 adopted caches because in one case the CO is retiring from work and moving away from this area and in the other, the CO wants a break from being a CO. The convention almost all cachers here have adopted (no pun intended) is once a cache has been adopted, to change the ownership details as follows:

 

"A cache by (leave original CO's name here) (adopted by new CO's name)".

 

It is purely voluntary but we like it because it gives credit to the CO who placed it.

[+Don_J]

I wish GS would leave a copy of the caches in your hidden section of your stats, with it being listed as adopted. When you click on the cache it takes you to the owners page or the cache itself

 

Because once you adopt a cache out it disappears as if its never happened on your acct. that's sad

 

Exactly. I've never adopted out a cache, but I was recently chatting with another cacher who won't adopt out their caches specifically because of this issue. It just seems ridiculous that the site offers no way to do this.

 

It would also be helpful for people who have joint ownership of caches. Instead of having the FTF hounds and whiny competitive cachers get their feathers all ruffled because a joint cache owner logged it as found, why not allow joint ownership to be tracked on the site?

 

Problem with joint ownership. Say you and I have joint ownership on a cache, we have a big falling out and both of us wants to take sole ownership of the cache. Who get's to arbitrate? I seriously doubt that Groundspeak would ever want to open that can of worms.

[+narcissa]

Problem with joint ownership. Say you and I have joint ownership on a cache, we have a big falling out and both of us wants to take sole ownership of the cache. Who get's to arbitrate? I seriously doubt that Groundspeak would ever want to open that can of worms.

 

Yep, that's a problem.

 

But it's also a problem that when people adopt out their caches, it no longer shows up in their profile unless they "find" it, and then other cachers needlessly whine and cry about this being tacky, which leads to people archiving caches instead of finding someone to adopt them.

 

So if it must remain that there can only be a single owner on a cache, perhaps we could all just agree to look the other way when a former cache owner "finds" their old cache.

 

Or Groundspeak could just rig up a way that a cache owner can set another person as a joint "hider" who doesn't actually have ownership of the cache for maintenance purposes.

[+lamoracke]

Yeah, I wish the original creator of the cache could have a stat showing they created it. A friend of mine recently either adopted or archived all of his caches. I liked they were all lumped with his name so I locked all the GSAK owner ids so they will say his name no matter what.

 

To the question of the OP. I would probably not do it, but who knows. If I ever adopted out one of my Geo art puzzle caches because I move away from the area and come back to the area, I might want to log it because otherwise my Geo Art would not be complete, either as owner or a finder. I think its a little silly when some COs archive their caches and then immediately find them, but whatever, he/she should do it if they want. We are not talking a lot of caches most likely, its not like they are trying to inflate their #s, there are plenty of ways to do that these days.

Edited June 13, 2014 by lamoracke

[+The A-Team]

...when people adopt out their caches, it no longer shows up in their profile unless they "find" it...

I really don't see what effect logging it as a find would have. It still won't show up in their profile as a hide. A third party would have to go browsing through all of the original owner's finds to see if they've ever "found" a cache they used to own. Clearly people wouldn't and don't do that, so the original owner and the adopted owner will be the only people who are aware of the ownership history.

 

That same level of awareness could be accomplished by not logging the cache as found.

 

Certainly, I agree that the best system would be one where joint or past ownership could be tracked and displayed on the website. We don't have that now, though, so we have to work within the framework we've been provided. The general consensus within the context of the current system is that logging a find on your own cache - which could reasonably be extended to include former ownership - is considered tacky. Not necessarily wrong, just not the norm.

[+narcissa]

I really don't see what effect logging it as a find would have.

 

Precisely. Since it has no effect outside the person doing it, and is not even perceptable to other cachers unless they are looking for it, there's no reason to tell other geocachers that they shouldn't do it.

[+The A-Team]

I really don't see what effect logging it as a find would have.

Precisely. Since it has no effect outside the person doing it, and is not even perceptable to other cachers unless they are looking for it, there's no reason to tell other geocachers that they shouldn't do it.

The cacher is lying to themselves, though. They know full well that they didn't find it, and it could forever "taint" things like their milestones (ie. their 1000th find is really their 999th). If their personal ethics are fine with that, then there's no problem. For those with different ethics, we're advising them that it will be easier on their conscience to not log it as a find.

 

To be clear, we're not telling them they shouldn't do it. We're just advising them that it isn't considered the norm. I have no problem with someone choosing to log one of their hides as a find. That's between them and their conscience. I still personally consider it tacky* and won't do it myself.

 

*Perhaps a different term could be used to describe the abnormality (ie. not the norm) of such an action. "Atypical", "irregular", "unconventional", or "uncommon" are other possibilities that still describe how logging a find on your own cache is not considered the standard.

Edited June 13, 2014 by The A-Team

[+narcissa]

The cacher is lying to themselves, though. They know full well that they didn't find it, and it could forever "taint" things like their milestones (ie. their 1000th find is really their 999th). If their personal ethics are fine with that, then there's no problem. For those with different ethics, we're advising them that it will be easier on their conscience to not log it as a find.

 

To be clear, we're not telling them they shouldn't do it. We're just advising them that it isn't considered the norm. I have no problem with someone choosing to log one of their hides as a find. That's between them and their conscience. I still personally consider it tacky* and won't do it myself.

 

*Perhaps a different term could be used to describe the abnormality (ie. not the norm) of such an action. "Atypical", "irregular", "unconventional", or "uncommon" are other possibilities that still describe how logging a find on your own cache is not considered the standard.

 

According to the website, once it's been adopted, it's someone else's cache and fair game to log as a find.

 

If it's still the owner's cache, then the website should somehow reflect that.

 

I don't see why it's a matter of "conscience" or "ethics" unless you're engaged in some sort of third-party competition that uses statistics from this non-competitive game. Someone who is really conscientious about stats can find a way to account for it in terms of milestones, if that's important to them. I've learned to accept that due to the fact that I forget to log caches from time to time, none of my milestones are actually correct.

Edited June 13, 2014 by narcissa

[+WarNinjas]

On a side note but in the same category we recently adoped a cache. We had never found it before but went to make sure it was OK. We had to search for it. We found it. Kind of like a find for us. We don't really care about the number and I think it is now listed as our cache so I don't think we will ever log it as a find but just wondering what the thoughts were on this as it is the oposite of the question here. You hid it so how can you find it. We didn't hide it so we had to find it. It would be cool to have another find from this CO that has now passed away but I don't think it would show up like that now that we have adoped it.

[+narcissa]

On a side note but in the same category we recently adoped a cache. We had never found it before but went to make sure it was OK. We had to search for it. We found it. Kind of like a find for us. We don't really care about the number and I think it is now listed as our cache so I don't think we will ever log it as a find but just wondering what the thoughts were on this as it is the oposite of the question here. You hid it so how can you find it. We didn't hide it so we had to find it. It would be cool to have another find from this CO that has now passed away but I don't think it would show up like that now that we have adoped it.

 

Well, I just think it's great that you've adopted the cache, and whatever you decide to do about finding it or not finding it is up to you.

[+Bear and Ragged]

On a side note but in the same category we recently adoped a cache. We had never found it before but went to make sure it was OK. We had to search for it. We found it. Kind of like a find for us. We don't really care about the number and I think it is now listed as our cache so I don't think we will ever log it as a find but just wondering what the thoughts were on this as it is the oposite of the question here. You hid it so how can you find it. We didn't hide it so we had to find it. It would be cool to have another find from this CO that has now passed away but I don't think it would show up like that now that we have adoped it.

 

Log it as Found.

 

My feelings are, so long as the CO you've adopted it from hasn't given explicit directions/description, explanation of the cammo, go for it! Log it, claim it!

 

If it's a 5/5 multi or Puzzle, and the CO has given you the final co-ordinates and you've gone straight to the cache with them... Don't tell me!

[+Don_J]

On a side note but in the same category we recently adoped a cache. We had never found it before but went to make sure it was OK. We had to search for it. We found it. Kind of like a find for us. We don't really care about the number and I think it is now listed as our cache so I don't think we will ever log it as a find but just wondering what the thoughts were on this as it is the oposite of the question here. You hid it so how can you find it. We didn't hide it so we had to find it. It would be cool to have another find from this CO that has now passed away but I don't think it would show up like that now that we have adoped it.

 

Log it as Found.

 

My feelings are, so long as the CO you've adopted it from hasn't given explicit directions/description, explanation of the cammo, go for it! Log it, claim it!

 

If it's a 5/5 multi or Puzzle, and the CO has given you the final co-ordinates and you've gone straight to the cache with them... Don't tell me!

 

I wouldn't log it. After all, I'd simply be doing maintenance. One of the hardest caches I ever found was when someone found one of my easy caches and decided to, "hide it better".

[+JesandTodd]

On a side note but in the same category we recently adoped a cache. We had never found it before but went to make sure it was OK. We had to search for it. We found it. Kind of like a find for us. We don't really care about the number and I think it is now listed as our cache so I don't think we will ever log it as a find but just wondering what the thoughts were on this as it is the oposite of the question here. You hid it so how can you find it. We didn't hide it so we had to find it. It would be cool to have another find from this CO that has now passed away but I don't think it would show up like that now that we have adoped it.

 

I agreed to adopt a cache as part of the king co geotour. Just a traditional.

 

I went and found it prior to accepting the adoption request. I had to find it just like everyone else. Didn't have special access to the cache page or anything like that

 

Then I adopted it.