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jshults (Rally Dude)

INTRO APP users are killing the hobby

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The amount of times I've seen people using the geocaching intro app log a DNF on a puzzle because they thought it was a traditional is crazy! I haven't had many caches go missing in the past few years but I always feel a bit on edge after I receive a log such as "come at me bro" or "fully sick" and wonder if the cache will be missing, damaged or not hidden back properly. I find the app handy if I'm out and about if I need to pass time, or logging a FTF directly after I've found it but the rest of the time geocaching.com and a good old GPS is the way to go. I think if they keep the app some sort of educational video or email verification needs to be implemented in order to try and reduce damage done to caches or TBs.

 

How do you log a DNF on a puzzle from the intro app? I thought it only showed traditionals.

It does only show traditionals.

 

DNF's on puzzles from the clueless? I cannot say I have ever seen this. Find logs on Challenge caches (also ? caches) from the clueless? You bet 'ya. As a matter of fact a teenage cacher found one of my challenges caches for his first find, and took it with him and hid it in another park as his own cache. :huh:

 

Either way, these cannot possibly be intro app users. Paid app, or unauthorized free apps. We could, however, chalk it up to the unprecedented level of cluelessness exhibited by many of today's phone app newbies. I'm quite certain I never got a Tftc log from someone who found the first leg of my multi in 2005. :ph34r:

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I had a DNF on an Earthcache near me, "...couldn't find it...". It may not have been an intro app user, but it was someone likely introduced to the game via the app store and application of their choice. Their email wasn't validated, so when I tried to contact them to offer help, it went nowhere.

 

The validation issue goes beyond just the scope of the "Intro App", and is a significant barrier to helping foster good community and helpful introductions to a rather complicated game

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OK, I am simpithetic to a lot of the issues raised in this thread. However, this thread seems to have put in everyones mind that any noob behavior is a result of the APP boogie man. Posting a DNF for an Earthcache is basic noob behavior. This is just as likely to be someone who read a article in a paper, or heard about if from a freind as an "today's phone app newbies".

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I was just going to say, 'fixing' the app can only help to a degree - it can't fix a lack of common sense. What are the chances that someone can be legitimately confused between a traditional geocache and an explicitly listed Earthcache?

And also, everything else Andronicus said. Not every errant behaviour is the fault of the "intro app". =/

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I was just going to say, 'fixing' the app can only help to a degree - it can't fix a lack of common sense. What are the chances that someone can be legitimately confused between a traditional geocache and an explicitly listed Earthcache?

And also, everything else Andronicus said. Not every errant behaviour is the fault of the "intro app". =/

I'd agree completely. The Intro App is missing some key components (didn't someone compile the bullets in previous pages?). It would be nice if the App led people more explicitly to the guidelines, and even posted links directly to or provided required "training" videos or activities/walkthrough.

 

Other than that, I think we've also keyed in on the fundamental issue here: Validated accounts.

 

Even then, there's still been no guarantee that those with validated accounts actually check that provided email, or bother to respond to correspondence if they do see it. However, this set of points is hardly enough to shoot down the idea that accounts should be validated. If the community in general is in charge of "running the day-to-day" of the game (logging finds, observing circumstances about the caches we seek, logging NM/NA, etc.), we should also be granted the tools to be able to keep this game on the up-and-up.

 

Many new users have done a great job of learning as they go--the "noobs" always have in any case like this. But there is room for improvement, as has been discussed and bulleted throughout this thread.

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OK, I am simpithetic to a lot of the issues raised in this thread. However, this thread seems to have put in everyones mind that any noob behavior is a result of the APP boogie man. Posting a DNF for an Earthcache is basic noob behavior. This is just as likely to be someone who read a article in a paper, or heard about if from a freind as an "today's phone app newbies".

 

Outstanding point. Earthcaches first came out in 2005. That's for us regular users to create them, although they claim a 2004 birthdate. However, they were only allowed to be created by "earthcache insiders" then, but that's besides the point. I'm a ranter and all, but there were probably some "clueless newbies" posting DNF's on EarthCaches before the app boogie man. We just see and notice many more such logs in the smartphone era. I'm talking like there are 11,000,000 or so registered accounts, but after 14 years to get to that total, over 1,000,000 of them were created in the last 3 months. :blink:

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The hoards of 3 word or less logs out there in the listings from people who never exceed 50 finds is what I'm talking about.

 

The fact that the app requires you to leave a comment to log a find makes this sort of thing inevitable. With a straightforward cache, there's not always something pithy to be said.

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The amount of times I've seen people using the geocaching intro app log a DNF on a puzzle because they thought it was a traditional is crazy! I haven't had many caches go missing in the past few years but I always feel a bit on edge after I receive a log such as "come at me bro" or "fully sick" and wonder if the cache will be missing, damaged or not hidden back properly. I find the app handy if I'm out and about if I need to pass time, or logging a FTF directly after I've found it but the rest of the time geocaching.com and a good old GPS is the way to go. I think if they keep the app some sort of educational video or email verification needs to be implemented in order to try and reduce damage done to caches or TBs.

 

How do you log a DNF on a puzzle from the intro app? I thought it only showed traditionals.

It does only show traditionals.

 

DNF's on puzzles from the clueless? I cannot say I have ever seen this. Find logs on Challenge caches (also ? caches) from the clueless? You bet 'ya. As a matter of fact a teenage cacher found one of my challenges caches for his first find, and took it with him and hid it in another park as his own cache. :huh:

 

Either way, these cannot possibly be intro app users. Paid app, or unauthorized free apps. We could, however, chalk it up to the unprecedented level of cluelessness exhibited by many of today's phone app newbies. I'm quite certain I never got a Tftc log from someone who found the first leg of my multi in 2005. :ph34r:

 

Bwahahaha! That's one of the first questions I'm asked when introducing Geocaching to people. Those particular people lose interest when they learn that the can't keep the caches.

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I was introduced to the game by Overington clan ( my auntie ) one night after dinner the time was 7:30 at night she had the intro app on her phone,now normally i would spend my Friday nights at the night clubs and Saturday mornings sick in bed and i admit not the funnest person to be around ....but sulking because i forgot my id she suggested we check it out. She had done a few already and thought i might like it.... "i said it sounded a bit stupid and why would i want to find some one else's junk" (still sulking).... but it wasn't far from the restaurant so i agreed. we walked through this park which was a tiny bit dark ...finally arriving at gz we quickly made the find.

 

We didn't go home that night till 11:00 i was hooked,and on her intro app which only brought up three at a time,we looked high and low.

I had the best fun i had had in ages.

The grand total that night was 10 caches, I couldn't believe that there was things hidden all over the place waiting for me to find them ...... that was it i was going to find them.

I was a geocacher!!

 

I am now a premium member. I also gifted my auntie premium membership, we plan big walking days and bbq with the sole purpose of caching and spending time together, my partner enjoys the 4wd caches spending many Saturdays now driving to new finds.

I love taking muggles on caching adventures and telling them all about how to play the game and the rules and guide lines. The best bit is seeing there face when they finally make a find, my mums feet actual Left the ground she whoo hood so loud followed by the I FOUND IT !!

 

I have 5 caches in my home town that once only had 1, i have 4 active track-ables zooming all over the world. I have found caches in Australia and Europe and have brought travel-bugs along to and from many holidays...I have been caching for 2 years now and continue to enjoy the thrill of finding a new cache location.

i have a caching bag that, im pretty proud of its a pink back pack and a track-able.. its complete with rubbish bags,spare containers for repairs, camo tape, pens , spare log books , my geocaching book for puzzles , my path-tags,my gps although i use my phone alot and the all important swag of varying values I'm a big believer in the swag being quality and have since found that its not junk its treasure!!!!! I normal stock up on plastic toys and trinkets to fill caches up with and always fill them up if they are empty ...

 

With out the into app i would never have learnt about this great hobby and would probably still be spending my Saturdays sick in bed !!

I'm thankful for the into app and recommend it to my friend, family and basically any one who sits still long enough for me to tell them about geocaching, that's how they can get started and if you like it from then pay for the app.

Edited by Littlelisa22

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Great to hear another intro app success story from littlelisa22, although I won't quote it. Yeah, I know some people may consider some of my posts in this thread a little harsh. But hey, never as harsh as the title of the thread; I don't think they're killing the hobby. But there are millions of them, and I think very few go on to become regular cachers. Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing what I'm pretty sure is the first ever decrease in new cache placements on Geocaching.com. Yes sir, in 2014, they're down 24% from 2013 in the United States. :ph34r: Source = Project-GC.

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Great to hear another intro app success story from littlelisa22, although I won't quote it. Yeah, I know some people may consider some of my posts in this thread a little harsh. But hey, never as harsh as the title of the thread; I don't think they're killing the hobby. But there are millions of them, and I think very few go on to become regular cachers. Otherwise, we wouldn't be seeing what I'm pretty sure is the first ever decrease in new cache placements on Geocaching.com. Yes sir, in 2014, they're down 24% from 2013 in the United States. :ph34r: Source = Project-GC.

Shame project gc doesn't know if it's new(er), or long-time members not placing new hides.

- Or does it?

We have quite a few areas to place, but not interested at this time to rush any out.

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My family and I found geocaching on a friends website. From there we grabbed the free app and went out hunting. I read the ethics posts and a lot of other information about caches and what to do if you find one. On our first cache we found a trackable. After reading about them on the site and here in the forums. We were actually scared to move it,not wanting to piss people off. I went back to the car and got on my phone to search for the goal of this tracker. I was happy to inform my kids that we needed to move it due to its goal.

 

Since then we have went out many times, logging a few finds here and there. Its mostly for the kids. The point of all this is that, without that app this community wouldn't find new people looking to start caching and to keep this going. So its a double edge sword here,some newbs want to learn and do right by the community some are not trying to fit in or just don't care and are destructive. I guess what I'm trying to say is there's a way to weed out the ones who don't care or don't read. That is what we have to find, a way to reach,teach, and repeat to some people. So that they can better handle themselves and learn some pretty simple common sense ethics.

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My family and I found geocaching on a friends website. From there we grabbed the free app and went out hunting. I read the ethics posts and a lot of other information about caches and what to do if you find one. On our first cache we found a trackable. After reading about them on the site and here in the forums. We were actually scared to move it,not wanting to piss people off. I went back to the car and got on my phone to search for the goal of this tracker. I was happy to inform my kids that we needed to move it due to its goal.

 

Since then we have went out many times, logging a few finds here and there. Its mostly for the kids. The point of all this is that, without that app this community wouldn't find new people looking to start caching and to keep this going. So its a double edge sword here,some newbs want to learn and do right by the community some are not trying to fit in or just don't care and are destructive. I guess what I'm trying to say is there's a way to weed out the ones who don't care or don't read. That is what we have to find, a way to reach,teach, and repeat to some people. So that they can better handle themselves and learn some pretty simple common sense ethics.

Word of mouth works rather well, and borrowing a gps works or going with someone who had one works. The app is not necessary, it is nice for trying it out but the buy in cost is low and that is the problem.

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...The point of all this is that, without that app this community wouldn't find new people looking to start caching and to keep this going. ...

We found new people just fine before the app. While it is great when the intro app helps good people like you find geocaching, it seems to find more often find people who make geocaching worse (not better).

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The point of all this is that, without that app this community wouldn't find new people looking to start caching and to keep this going. So its a double edge sword here,some newbs want to learn and do right by the community some are not trying to fit in or just don't care and are destructive. I guess what I'm trying to say is there's a way to weed out the ones who don't care or don't read. That is what we have to find, a way to reach,teach, and repeat to some people. So that they can better handle themselves and learn some pretty simple common sense ethics.

 

The difference, I think, between McDonaldTeam and the app users that the majority of this thread has griped about is that McDonaldTeam did research online and made the effort to do things correctly. Like you say in your last paragraph quoted above, we need to find a way to weed out the destructive ones. And that's what most of this thread is about; it's not about good users like you. :)

 

Some great suggestions have come up, but Groundspeak has yet to implement any of them. <_<

 

And I disagree with P&P's comment that newbies can just borrow a GPS from someone else. There's a fine balance to be struck between being welcoming and being elitist.

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And I disagree with P&P's comment that newbies can just borrow a GPS from someone else. There's a fine balance to be struck between being welcoming and being elitist.

I guess I mention that because most of the poople I know who've stuck with it started by caching with another person who had a dedicated gps. I've even met up with a number of newbies to show them how it works so they dot have to invest the money before they've tried it out.

I'm not sure reaching out to another person is being anything more than friendly.

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Well...the new front page pretty much directs people right to the App without any mention of the website, guidelines, or use of GPS unit.

 

$$ is good for the Apps versus not getting any money from GPS purchases. This is a funnel right into the coffers, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. But there really should be some more thought given to how they add users, direct them to join, and how they end up interacting with the game if they don't visit the website at all.

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Just a point about using smart phones.... I HAD a GPSr. It died. I am unemployed, no income, broke. So I HAVE to use my phone because I have one and it's all I have to cache with. So don't be dissing all phone users as idiots. Monetary situations CAN be a reason someone doesn't use a GPSr. They are expensive!

 

I paid for the app on my phone ages ago. I also used to be a Premium member. I can't afford that any more.

 

I do understand the beef here...just leave the door open a little that not all phone cachers are bad. If you have a GPSr, you are quite blessed. Don't take it for granted or look down on all phone cachers. Lose a job and you'll end up like me. I use caching as a way to get outside and get myself away from a miserable life for a few minutes. I'm grateful to still have a smart phone to use!

 

If you go to most mushroom sites, they almost always have an alert disclaimer warning about eating wild mushrooms. While an alert with the most important Geocaching guidelines every time you use the free app wouldn't mean everyone would READ it, at least there would be guaranteed exposure to the rules.

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Just a point about using smart phones.... I HAD a GPSr. It died. I am unemployed, no income, broke. So I HAVE to use my phone because I have one and it's all I have to cache with. So don't be dissing all phone users as idiots. Monetary situations CAN be a reason someone doesn't use a GPSr. They are expensive!

 

I paid for the app on my phone ages ago. I also used to be a Premium member. I can't afford that any more.

 

I do understand the beef here...just leave the door open a little that not all phone cachers are bad. If you have a GPSr, you are quite blessed. Don't take it for granted or look down on all phone cachers. Lose a job and you'll end up like me. I use caching as a way to get outside and get myself away from a miserable life for a few minutes. I'm grateful to still have a smart phone to use!

 

If you go to most mushroom sites, they almost always have an alert disclaimer warning about eating wild mushrooms. While an alert with the most important Geocaching guidelines every time you use the free app wouldn't mean everyone would READ it, at least there would be guaranteed exposure to the rules.

Not sure who is "dissing all phone users as idiots"... I'm using the App nearly 90% of the time these days, and supplement with my GPSr when needed (hiding caches, loading a big PQ for a trip, e.g.). Did you read through the whole thread, or just respond to the title or a singular response within the thread? This isn't about "phone users", and certainly turned away from the "killing the hobby" idea in the OP.

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I agree about the free app destroying our game!!!

Now all my caches are PMO. I personally started by buying the full app which (while not being expensive) at least requires the user to think before they download. Now I cache with a GPS device but the full app was a cheaper initial alternative.

 

I don't think dumping the free app would be alienating potential cachers because anyone with enough motivation to actually stay in the hobby would be prepared to spend the $10.

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I agree about the free app destroying our game!!!

Now all my caches are PMO.

News alert: Free app users can see your PMO caches if they become premium members. :)

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I agree about the free app destroying our game!!!

Now all my caches are PMO.

No, they're not.

Hmm, what's up? :omnomnom:

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I agree about the free app destroying our game!!!

Now all my caches are PMO.

No, they're not.

Hmm, what's up? :omnomnom:

This is gonna be good *grabs popcorn*

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I agree about the free app destroying our game!!!

Now all my caches are PMO.

No, they're not.

Hmm, what's up? :omnomnom:

This is gonna be good *grabs popcorn*

I'm on my 25th donut and still waiting.... :laughing::omnomnom:

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I agree about the free app destroying our game!!!

Now all my caches are PMO.

No, they're not.

Hmm, what's up? :omnomnom:

This is gonna be good *grabs popcorn*

I'm on my 25th donut and still waiting.... :laughing::omnomnom:

I suppose after 25 pages this thread was bound to head out on a note like this... <_<:rolleyes:

 

 

 

 

:laughing:

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Humm... I am fairly new to geocaching logged 115 finds and have 7 hides including a 5 stage multi T.B Hotel and every one of them is custom made and have multiple fav. Points. I started with the intro. App and I don't even own a handheld GPS. Only my smartphone. luckily we have the option to become premium members and we also have the option to only let Premium Members find our caches.so there are a lot of us to take geocaching serious and only use our smartphones it's just as good as any handheld and when I'm in the mountains I have offline list ☆☆STEELERDREW79☆☆

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I agree about the free app destroying our game!!!

Now all my caches are PMO.

No, they're not.

Hmm, what's up? :omnomnom:

This is gonna be good *grabs popcorn*

I'm on my 25th donut and still waiting.... :laughing::omnomnom:

I suppose after 25 pages this thread was bound to head out on a note like this... <_<:rolleyes:

 

:laughing:

 

Oh, there's plenty of life left in this thread. The tendency for veterans to critique n00bs is ingrained in the DNA of humanity. And it seems the "investigation" of a glib comment sent the poster scurrying!

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Yes 5 STAGE MULTI. FINAL IS A TRAVEL BUG HOTEL.?? IS THAT STRANGE TRUE I'VE NEVER SEEN TO TWO IN ONE HIDE BUT IT WORKS STILL ONLY 1 MONTH OLD. GC5HACT

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