INTRO APP users are killing the hobby

[Andronicus]

The into app puts the $ cost at zero, as well as the time and effor cost at zero.

 

And zero cost often results in zero investment - and all the strife that comes along with that

And zero respect, and zero knowledge, and....

[+Harry Dolphin]

Log from APP user Member since October 6. One find.:

Found it 10/07/2014

Don't try to get it because I found it and I kept it sorry guys

[+Team Microdot]

Log from APP user Member since October 6. One find.:

Found it 10/07/2014

Don't try to get it because I found it and I kept it sorry guys

 

Is ANYBODY from Groundspeak paying attention to this AT ALL?

[+Team Microdot]

Log from APP user Member since October 6. One find.:

Found it 10/07/2014

Don't try to get it because I found it and I kept it sorry guys

 

Is ANYBODY from Groundspeak paying attention to this AT ALL?

Maybe they'd like most caches to become premium-only, because then most members would become paying premium members.

 

Ya think?

 

If that is the case then the proper thing for them to do would be to SAY SO - rather than facilitate examples like that above

[+Ambrosia]

Log from APP user Member since October 6. One find.:

Found it 10/07/2014

Don't try to get it because I found it and I kept it sorry guys

 

Is ANYBODY from Groundspeak paying attention to this AT ALL?

How is someone stealing a cache Groundspeak's fault?

[+Team Microdot]

Log from APP user Member since October 6. One find.:

Found it 10/07/2014

Don't try to get it because I found it and I kept it sorry guys

 

Is ANYBODY from Groundspeak paying attention to this AT ALL?

How is someone stealing a cache Groundspeak's fault?

 

Oh I don't know - maybe providing the tools to find it in the first place without requiring them to understand that taking the cache home isn't part of the game?

 

I expect that concept has been mentioned somewhere in the past 23 pages?

[+Ambrosia]

Log from APP user Member since October 6. One find.:

Found it 10/07/2014

Don't try to get it because I found it and I kept it sorry guys

 

Is ANYBODY from Groundspeak paying attention to this AT ALL?

How is someone stealing a cache Groundspeak's fault?

 

Oh I don't know - maybe providing the tools to find it in the first place without requiring them to understand that taking the cache home isn't part of the game?

 

I expect that concept has been mentioned somewhere in the past 23 pages?

Um, I've read every single post here.

 

If someone came on to the site (not the app), and created an account and went out to find a cache, they're not required to understand that taking home a cache isn't part of the game.

 

And besides, that person obviously understands that they're not supposed to take the cache. They apologized for it in their log.

[team tisri]

Log from APP user Member since October 6. One find.:

Found it 10/07/2014

Don't try to get it because I found it and I kept it sorry guys

 

Is ANYBODY from Groundspeak paying attention to this AT ALL?

Maybe they'd like most caches to become premium-only, because then most members would become paying premium members.

 

Ya think?

 

If that is the case then the proper thing for them to do would be to SAY SO - rather than facilitate examples like that above

 

This reminds me of the situation when the major supermarkets in the UK took away the half-height shopping trolleys in the belief that shoppers who couldn't get a half-height trolley would take a larger version and end up buying more. What actually happened was that they took a basket and ended up buying less.

 

I suspect that allowing unknown numbers of caches to get muggled as a push to get people to make their caches PMO and gain more premium members is just as likely to alienate the customer base and push people towards other sites. Having let my own premium membership lapse I certainly wouldn't renew it unless I could be confident of having more on offer than a number of PMO film pots behind posts.

[+Team Microdot]

If someone came on to the site (not the app), and created an account and went out to find a cache, they're not required to understand that taking home a cache isn't part of the game.

 

And besides, that person obviously understands that they're not supposed to take the cache. They apologized for it in their log.

 

The log was quoted as being from an APP user rather than a site user - not necessarily the intro app I grant you.

 

And without further information it isn't really obvious that the person understands that they are not supposed to take the cache, just because they apologised for taking it. There are other possible motivations for the apology.

[+Ambrosia]

It still doesn't translate that this is Groundspeak's fault. People are going to do things like this if they use the site or if they use the app.

 

And also (this is aimed at the people making these posts) - having it sound like Groundspeak is doing this on purpose to specifically create more PMO caches and more PM's is really rather offensive. Please don't go around saying that like it is fact.

[+Team Microdot]

It still doesn't translate that this is Groundspeak's fault. People are going to do things like this if they use the site or if they use the app.

 

And it doesn't categorically translate that it isn't, either.

 

I'd like to think that people are less likely to do things like this having been properly informed that things like this are not done, as a rule.

 

And also (this is aimed at the people making these posts) - having it sound like Groundspeak is doing this on purpose to specifically create more PMO caches and more PM's is really rather offensive. Please don't go around saying that like it is fact.

 

People are proffering guesses as to motivational possibilities in the absence of any obvious feedback from Groundspeak. I don't find that offensive at all.

[Mr.Yuck]

Log from APP user Member since October 6. One find.:

Found it 10/07/2014

Don't try to get it because I found it and I kept it sorry guys

 

Is ANYBODY from Groundspeak paying attention to this AT ALL?

How is someone stealing a cache Groundspeak's fault?

 

Yeah, this could have happened in 2004. Of course the apology probably would have been a coherent paragraph with punctuation, not a run on sentence with no punctuation thumbed out on a mobile device.

[+GeoBain]

And also (this is aimed at the people making these posts) - having it sound like Groundspeak is doing this on purpose to specifically create more PMO caches and more PM's is really rather offensive. Please don't go around saying that like it is fact.

 

I'm guessing that people having their caches destroyed, taken, dealing with poor caching etiquette, etc. are rather offended as well.

 

I personally don't think it is the intro app but rather the pushing of this hobby to the masses that is the problem.

 

When it used to be that friends introduced friends to the hobby, there was more respect for it. And frankly you probably didn't tell everyone about it; especially you idiot cousin that you knew didn't play nice with others.

 

But with apps allowing the hobby to be mainstreamed, you get everybody, unfiltered, involved.

 

And while that is great for Groundspeak's bottom line, it doesn't work out so great for the rest of us.

[+kunarion]

Log from APP user Member since October 6. One find.:

Found it 10/07/2014

Don't try to get it because I found it and I kept it sorry guys

 

Is ANYBODY from Groundspeak paying attention to this AT ALL?

APP users actually post a suitable log, even if taking the whole container! More APP users, please!

Edited October 8, 2014 by kunarion

[cezanne]

Log from APP user Member since October 6. One find.:

Found it 10/07/2014

Don't try to get it because I found it and I kept it sorry guys

 

And who knows whether this is indeed a log by someone not knowing about the habits and guidelines of geocaching?

It could as well come from an experienced cacher or someone who wants to annoy cachers.

 

There are cachers out there who use separate accounts for such actions.

 

Cezanne

[+gpicard]

So, do you think the intro app experience will turn out somewhat like the 'new Coke' experience?

 

(Attempt to increase customer base partly succeeds in alienating current customer base?)

[Mr.Yuck]

And also (this is aimed at the people making these posts) - having it sound like Groundspeak is doing this on purpose to specifically create more PMO caches and more PM's is really rather offensive. Please don't go around saying that like it is fact.

 

I'm guessing that people having their caches destroyed, taken, dealing with poor caching etiquette, etc. are rather offended as well.

 

I personally don't think it is the intro app but rather the pushing of this hobby to the masses that is the problem.

 

When it used to be that friends introduced friends to the hobby, there was more respect for it. And frankly you probably didn't tell everyone about it; especially you idiot cousin that you knew didn't play nice with others.

 

But with apps allowing the hobby to be mainstreamed, you get everybody, unfiltered, involved.

 

And while that is great for Groundspeak's bottom line, it doesn't work out so great for the rest of us.

 

This is very well stated by Geobain. I've probably stated more than once in these 23 pages that the number of accounts on Geocaching.com has nearly quadrupled since 2010, (early in the smartphone era) from 3,000,000 to over 11,000,000. There have been over 1,000,000 new accounts since July of this year. And of course the smartphone era itself was escalated to the free intro app era. That's the mainstream, baby. Muggles with our cache coordinates.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Mr.Yuck

[+thebruce0]

hm.

so, is this coming back to elitism?

The masses of people we didn't want to know, now know, and are ruining our precious hobby!

 

Hey it's a popular pastime. It's gonna grow. It's gonna get more popular. Unlike another gamezee that is dying a slow death from its super-fast growth in popularity not balanced with a sense of what can work for the widest community as possible (instead of promoting competition and limited technology), geocaching is still growing and thriving. The intricate details of what's good or bad within the community, vocal or passive - well that's up in the air.

 

If the hobby is so great, are you on the side of the fence that wants to keep it quiet and hidden and 'pure', or on the side that wants to open it up for the enjoyment of all? I admit, it's not an easy question to answer given the covert nature of the hobby...

 

The fact the game is still going, successfully, speaks volumes about TPTB and their dedication to its existence. Even with all the hurdles they face in community growth and the range of worldwide cultures.

 

so, as there really is no one single group of people who are "the problem", outside the common factors - lack of knowledge/understanding, or intentional antagonists - how can Groundspeak improve the experience for everyone? That's, at least to me, the primary point of discussion.

 

-validated email (that's a given)

-better introductory instructions (including work on the intro app since it's dramatically different than the full)

-promotion of good practices, including reliable self-policing

etc

[+Team Microdot]

The fact the game is still going, successfully, speaks volumes about TPTB and their dedication to its existence.

 

Surely you're not suggesting that the success of the game - and the fact it is still going - is all thanks to Groundspeak?

 

I'd like to think I, and thousands of other people, contribute a tiny amount by hiding and maintaining caches...

[+wmpastor]

The fact the game is still going, successfully, speaks volumes about TPTB and their dedication to its existence.

 

Surely you're not suggesting that the success of the game - and the fact it is still going - is all thanks to Groundspeak?

 

I'd like to think I, and thousands of other people, contribute a tiny amount by hiding and maintaining caches...

 

Yes. Uh, hello! GS is a *listing service*.

[+GeoBain]

The fact the game is still going, successfully, speaks volumes about TPTB and their dedication to its existence.

 

Surely you're not suggesting that the success of the game - and the fact it is still going - is all thanks to Groundspeak?

 

I'd like to think I, and thousands of other people, contribute a tiny amount by hiding and maintaining caches...

 

It would be interesting to see how profitable geocaching would be if TPTB had to plant and maintain all the geocaches.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

The fact the game is still going, successfully, speaks volumes about TPTB and their dedication to its existence.

 

Surely you're not suggesting that the success of the game - and the fact it is still going - is all thanks to Groundspeak?

 

I'd like to think I, and thousands of other people, contribute a tiny amount by hiding and maintaining caches...

 

Yes. Uh, hello! GS is a *listing service*.

 

which would not exist, if not for the hundreds of thousands of people that are contributing to the game by hiding and maintaining caches

[+BAMBOOZLE]

 

If the hobby is so great, are you on the side of the fence that wants to keep it quiet and hidden and 'pure', or on the side that wants to open it up for the enjoyment of all? I admit, it's not an easy question to answer given the covert nature of the hobby...

 

 

It's actually an easy question to answer. Geocaching in 2003 was far more fun when it was quiet, hidden, and "pure". It attracted outdoor loving teckno-geeks who had great imaginations and sense of adventure. I don't have to tell anyone what it's like today, you already know.

Years ago we loved playing tennis and along came Chris Evert and Jimmy Conners and suddenly the masses arrived and tennis became a chore. When the masses come aboard problems follow. Today, for the most part, tennis courts are ghost towns and soon the unimaginative will cease to cache and will be drawn to the next thing that glitters or free app.

[team tisri]

hm.

so, is this coming back to elitism?

The masses of people we didn't want to know, now know, and are ruining our precious hobby!

 

I don't care how many people know about the game and play the game. I do care when caching becomes a succession of film pots behind posts.

 

Hey it's a popular pastime. It's gonna grow. It's gonna get more popular. Unlike another gamezee that is dying a slow death from its super-fast growth in popularity not balanced with a sense of what can work for the widest community as possible (instead of promoting competition and limited technology), geocaching is still growing and thriving. The intricate details of what's good or bad within the community, vocal or passive - well that's up in the air.

 

If the hobby is so great, are you on the side of the fence that wants to keep it quiet and hidden and 'pure', or on the side that wants to open it up for the enjoyment of all? I admit, it's not an easy question to answer given the covert nature of the hobby...

 

Having lots of cachers out there makes no difference to me, as long as they follow basic game rules. Like putting the cache back rather than taking it away, like hiding it again properly, like closing it up properly.

 

The fact the game is still going, successfully, speaks volumes about TPTB and their dedication to its existence. Even with all the hurdles they face in community growth and the range of worldwide cultures.

 

Really? It seems to me that TPTB are more interested in their own profits even if it means annoying cache owners. And without cache owners there would be no geocaching.

 

so, as there really is no one single group of people who are "the problem", outside the common factors - lack of knowledge/understanding, or intentional antagonists - how can Groundspeak improve the experience for everyone? That's, at least to me, the primary point of discussion.

 

-validated email (that's a given)

-better introductory instructions (including work on the intro app since it's dramatically different than the full)

-promotion of good practices, including reliable self-policing

etc

 

I agree that there isn't a single group where we can say "if you are a member of X then you are the problem". Your ideas for improvement are good, but given they've been talked about for so long and there's still no sign of Groundspeak doing anything to address them it's hard to conclude anything other than that Groundspeak simply doesn't care. And for as long as people sign up, find a couple of film pots behind posts, think "ooh, me too" and hide a "me too" film pot behind a post then there's a steady supply of geocaches out there, which makes their numbers look good. If the average lifespan of a cache drops from many years to a few months and sometimes lower still, no big deal, someone else will come along to hide another film pot behind another post.

 

Personally I'd rather find two or three interesting caches in good locations than 20-30 film pots along a three mile trail. But "35,000 caches in this county" doesn't sound as good as "500,000 caches in this county", so presumably Groundspeak are going for big numbers because they sound better. I'd still rather look for one decent sized box than a dozen film pots behind posts, and because I got bored of looking for film pots my caching activity has all but stopped.

[team tisri]

The fact the game is still going, successfully, speaks volumes about TPTB and their dedication to its existence.

 

Surely you're not suggesting that the success of the game - and the fact it is still going - is all thanks to Groundspeak?

 

I'd like to think I, and thousands of other people, contribute a tiny amount by hiding and maintaining caches...

 

It would be interesting to see how profitable geocaching would be if TPTB had to plant and maintain all the geocaches.

 

You have to admit, it's a neat business model.

 

Unpaid volunteers place and maintain caches following all the rules, however mindless, that emanate from head office.

Unpaid volunteers review and publish caches following all the rules, however mindless, that emanate from head office.

People pay to look at the listings.

If you totally bork the site with an untested change, you just mumble some fluff about being sorry and making better mistakes tomorrow, and ignore the service outage.

If your paying customers express annoyance at something, you just ignore them - the unpaid volunteers will attract more people to give it a go.

[Mr.Yuck]

The fact the game is still going, successfully, speaks volumes about TPTB and their dedication to its existence.

 

Surely you're not suggesting that the success of the game - and the fact it is still going - is all thanks to Groundspeak?

 

I'd like to think I, and thousands of other people, contribute a tiny amount by hiding and maintaining caches...

 

It would be interesting to see how profitable geocaching would be if TPTB had to plant and maintain all the geocaches.

 

What, you mean like most of the intro app users think they do?

 

I didn't quote Bruce because I wanted to get that one in, but he makes some good points. Of course they were all after he said it's coming back to elitism. It took 10 years to get 3,000,000 members, and now it's to the point where there were 1,000,000 more added in slightly over 3 months? Are you kidding me? That isn't just natural growth. That is the intro app, it has to be obvious to everyone. As well as the increase from 3,000,000 to 11,000,000 after the advent of smartphone apps, but the 1,000,000 in 3 months is absolutely astounding (and I had no clue until today until I looked it up for my prior post). Sorry, put me down for the underground days. When the worst thing about newbs was they didn't know how to properly log travel bugs, or they typed spoilers in their paragraph long logs.

 

P.S. I never said intro app users are ruining the hobby. I place that one right at the feet of the OP.

[Andronicus]

...

 

so, as there really is no one single group of people who are "the problem", outside the common factors - lack of knowledge/understanding, or intentional antagonists - how can Groundspeak improve the experience for everyone? That's, at least to me, the primary point of discussion.

 

-validated email (that's a given)

-better introductory instructions (including work on the intro app since it's dramatically different than the full)

-promotion of good practices, including reliable self-policing

etc

I played a geolocatoin game built by google's NianticLabs for a couple of years. Before you could start playing, you had to complete a tutorial that included virtule play. It sure seemed to help new users have a bit of a grasp of what was going on. Even with that, new players still had tonns of questions. The worst think is currently, with new useres to the into app, they don't even know that they don't know. They don't know what they should be asking.

 

Maybe the intro app could somehow do something like that.

Edited October 8, 2014 by Andronicus

[+thebruce0]

Just wow.

*sigh*

 

> Surely you're not suggesting that the success of the game - and the fact it is still going - is all thanks to Groundspeak?

 

Yep, so Groundspeak is just a listing service (a very complex central hub, maintaining an enormous database of information with access 24/7 and supplying it to millions worldwide simultaneously for free enjoyment with only a cheap optional subscription, compared to most annual subscription rates, for additional features to enhance the game, employing a small number of staff and aided by volunteers worldwide who take crap from people daily who don't like or understand rules). But yep if geocaching's success wasn't for them, then maybe they should just shut down entirely. That would help promote the hobby. That would make it thrive.

Come. On. People.

 

The entire hobby's success of course is because of everyone involved - caches don't place themselves. I'm not saying otherwise. But there's so much vitriol regularly hurled at Groundspeak from some people and it frankly makes me sick. So much demand and privilege and outrage. And no that does NOT mean I don't recognize that they don't necessarily produce the best results in the most optimal or acceptable way. But some of you folks have a serious "The Man" problem.

You can't claim that Groundspeak is just a listing service so you deserve the credit for the hobby's success, then turn around and blame them for all the bad apples as if they are the cause and only recourse; you get all the praise, they get all the blame? Please.

 

And personally, the more unjustified insults and charges thrown against Groundspeak in these forums, the more I respect and understand their relative lack of response. It's sad, disheartening, distracting, and disrespectful.

 

--

Andronicus, I agree - like I said, addressing the understanding of new users is something that needs to be done. But not JUST intro app users. All new users, and that's only regarding the issue of lack of knowledge. Lots of good suggestions already scattered throughout this thread... including discussions about other types of people who cause problems, including those who know rules and guidelines full well. The trouble-makers and griefers.

 

I think this thread may have had a better tone if it were titled "How the INTRO app can be improved to better train new users", throttle and streamline the topic instead of directing blame right out the gate.

 

Ok I'm tired. Groundspeak can defend themselves, even if they choose not to

Edited October 8, 2014 by thebruce0

[+Team Microdot]

I think this thread may have had a better tone if it were titled "How the INTRO app can be improved to better train new users", throttle and streamline the topic instead of directing blame right out the gate.

 

Why not start that thread - and see if it yields better results than this one?

 

Given that this thread has so far yielded - as far as we can tell - zero positive results, your new thread wouldn't have to achieve very much at all to be classed as successful.

[+3MonkeyCircus]

There are some really unhappy people in this thread. As a relative newbie, as I read through this thread I get the distinct feeling that I'm not welcome here. That runs contrary to my interactions with the geocaching community members that I've met in person.

[Mr.Yuck]

There are some really unhappy people in this thread. As a relative newbie, as I read through this thread I get the distinct feeling that I'm not welcome here. That runs contrary to my interactions with the geocaching community members that I've met in person.

 

How do you get the distinct feeling you're not welcome here? Do you use the free intro app? (I'll answer for you; no you don't because you found 26 caches on Sunday ). Did you EVER use the free intro app?

 

That's why Team Microdot is 100% correct. I don't feel like documenting every single case, but there have been SEVERAL "new people" posting to this thread that they were offended, and SEVERAL of them are not, were not, and never have used the intro app. We had one guy who posted who wasn't even using a Groundspeak app (he was using the Android app that shall not be named). How do you get "intro app" out of that and get offended?

 

New thread please, without "killing the hobby" in the title.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Mr.Yuck

[+thebruce0]

I think this thread may have had a better tone if it were titled "How the INTRO app can be improved to better train new users", throttle and streamline the topic instead of directing blame right out the gate.

Why not start that thread - and see if it yields better results than this one?

 

Given that this thread has so far yielded - as far as we can tell - zero positive results, your new thread wouldn't have to achieve very much at all to be classed as successful.

Better left for someone who feels passionately enough on the matter to start that thread.

Or is the subject doomed to rant parties intermingled with a few good and respectable ideas & suggestions from the occasional participant?

 

 

New thread please, without "killing the hobby" in the title.

 

[+NanCycle]

There are some really unhappy people in this thread. As a relative newbie, as I read through this thread I get the distinct feeling that I'm not welcome here. That runs contrary to my interactions with the geocaching community members that I've met in person.

 

You are not the person that the unhappiness in this thread is directed toward. You have a validated email address. It does not appear that you are using the free INTRO APP; even if you are, or maybe you were at first, your logs are not typical of INTRO APP users. The unhappiness in this thread is not directed toward newbies, per se; really it is directed toward the INTRO APP itself and the usage that it permits, rather than the people who use it, not knowing any better. The thread title is unfortunate in that it really should say "INTRO APP users are[is] killing the hobby."

[+wmpastor]

There are some really unhappy people in this thread. As a relative newbie, as I read through this thread I get the distinct feeling that I'm not welcome here. That runs contrary to my interactions with the geocaching community members that I've met in person.

 

This post alone shows that you're on the right path. You're reading about the hobby, meeting cachers, hearing various issues and viewpoints, & in general your post shows a caring (rather than careless) attitude. Enjoy!

[+irisisleuk]

There are some really unhappy people in this thread. As a relative newbie, as I read through this thread I get the distinct feeling that I'm not welcome here. That runs contrary to my interactions with the geocaching community members that I've met in person.

 

You are very welcome and I'm sure everyone in this thread feels the same. The problem is just that a lot of cachers experience a lot more negative side effects of the game since the game of geocaching can be played with an (intro) app. Before the smartphone introduction it wasn't as easy to start geocaching, because you needed to buy a gps. So those who bought an expensive gps informed themselves better about what the games is all about and how it's played. Can you imagine when we started we had to rent a gps just to figure out if we would like the game? The cost of renting a gps for a day was already higher than buying a smartphone and downloading an app today. So of course we read a lot before we tried anything. This was no problem by the way, we liked doing this, it made us more curious about the game.

So when we started playing we were a lot better informed than most people who start playing the game now. The available app won't tell you everything you need to know and this results in all kind of negative side effects like disappearing caches, disappearing trackables, empty logs, children finding it without any supervision etc. etc.

Next to this, the smartphone introduction resulted in many more cachers, and more and more and more... And they all get enthusiastic and want to place caches, which end up in uninteresting locations after having found 1 or 2 caches themselves, because they never have read anything, never discovered anything else about this game. And on one hand that is because of the smartphone and on the other because the amount of info and tools on this website has grown enormously. Trying to figure out how everything works on this website has become a lot more difficult. Back when we started there weren't as many tabs and still it took long enough to figure everything out. So we really can't blame new cachers for not understanding the basics before starting to play.

 

And of course there are still a lot of new cachers like you, who do read the forums, who do want to know more, who aren't the 1-day-fly cachers that give a lot of concern. And I'm sorry you have to read all this negativity on this forum, but please be aware the negativity is not about you or new cachers, it is about how it seems like nothing is done to solve these problems.

And the only place to address these frustrations is this forum (and of course events, and you can be sure this topic is talked about on every event).

 

All the people in this thread love the game of geocaching, and that is why they discuss this and other issues they have here. They still have hope something can/will be done and they seek help from Groundspeak. A lot of others have given up hope and stopped making nice caches and some stopped even finding them. But the cachers in this forum are still trying to get themselves heard, hoping the hobby won't be killed. Or at least not the hobby they like to play, since it might just change into something else, targeting a completely different audience.

[+thebruce0]

In addition to the above thorough summary, it should also be noted that things weren't all perfectly smooth and acceptable before the smartphone 'revolution', as it were. From what I hear at least, as I began in '09 because of said revolution. So it's not the smartphone era that ushered in complexity and difficulty in understanding and enjoying the hobby, but moreso that it certainly facilitated the increasing amount of frustration. Thou shalt not all hail the pre-smartphone era as the sparkly perfection many make it out to be. But it was a simpler time. (not that I'd know first hand).

[+Dame Deco]

There are some really unhappy people in this thread. As a relative newbie, as I read through this thread I get the distinct feeling that I'm not welcome here. That runs contrary to my interactions with the geocaching community members that I've met in person.

 

Bingo! You've stumbled on something important…

 

But at the same time, there are legitimate concerns being raised that GS never addresses--

Edited October 9, 2014 by Dame Deco

[+Team Microdot]

I think this thread may have had a better tone if it were titled "How the INTRO app can be improved to better train new users", throttle and streamline the topic instead of directing blame right out the gate.

Why not start that thread - and see if it yields better results than this one?

 

Given that this thread has so far yielded - as far as we can tell - zero positive results, your new thread wouldn't have to achieve very much at all to be classed as successful.

Better left for someone who feels passionately enough on the matter to start that thread.

Or is the subject doomed to rant parties intermingled with a few good and respectable ideas & suggestions from the occasional participant?

 

I don't think starting a thread necessarily requires a great deal of passion. Most of the passion in this thread seems to have come from the contributors - although it seems there's a risk of that passion being branded rant parties

 

I expect Groundspeak could extract all the good and respectable ideas from this thread and implement them if they chose to - but there's no obvious signs of it happening yet - which might go some way to explaining some of the frustration expressed.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Normally, I do not download caches with the last two logs being DNFs. There are enough cache around, that I don'thave to waste my time looking for missing caches. This was one of them:

 

(Unvalidated Newbie) Member 1

Found it 05/31/2014

Really?

 

(Former DNFer) Premium Member 81 Didn't find it 05/25/2014

Second look, early morning so no muggles. Used flashlight. Put arm in up to shoulder in all places. No luck ?RUN2FIND

 

(DNFed it) Member 1 Didn't find it 03/08/2014

Didn't look too thoroughly so will be back once the snow has cleared!

 

(Same as 2 above) Premium Member 81 Didn't find it 12/29/2013

Looked and felt but no luck. Lots of muggles. Will try next visit. RUN2FIND

 

(Another DNF) Premium Member 85 Didn't find it 11/09/2013

(Another cacher) and I looked around here for about 20 minutes, but we had to go and walked away empty-handed. Granted, it was nighttime, so future cachers shouldn't be discouraged. Thanks for bringing us to this nice little park , we'll be back!

 

Wow! Really makes me want to run out and search for it! (Not) CO missing for five months.

[Mr.Yuck]

If someone started a new thread without "killing the hobby" in the title, do you think it would be immediately closed, with a statement to please use the existing thread on the subject?

[Wineman89]

There are some really unhappy people in this thread. As a relative newbie, as I read through this thread I get the distinct feeling that I'm not welcome here. That runs contrary to my interactions with the geocaching community members that I've met in person.

 

I get the same feeling and I AM using the Intro app, or at least I've tried to on several occasions (compass function is buggy on my phone and won't work).

 

I'd never heard of geocaching until I saw it in the "Adventureland" movie and it looked fun, so I Googled it to see if it was a real game and found this site. I dl'd the C:Geo app back when I had an Android phone, but things came up IRL and never got the chance to get into it. Anyways, I just recently got a Windows phone and have been reading and trying to learn the proper way to do it all.

 

I agree the intro app really needs more information.

1. They could maybe add a link to Youtube video(s).

2. I agree with the validating email.

3. Cachers could include a short to do/not do list in their caches. I'm sure there's some that won't bother reading it, but those who really are interested and serious about it would. Could make it pop up like a Jack-in-the-box or that Snake in the nut can and catch their attention

[Mr.Yuck]

There are some really unhappy people in this thread. As a relative newbie, as I read through this thread I get the distinct feeling that I'm not welcome here. That runs contrary to my interactions with the geocaching community members that I've met in person.

 

I get the same feeling and I AM using the Intro app, or at least I've tried to on several occasions (compass function is buggy on my phone and won't work).

 

I'd never heard of geocaching until I saw it in the "Adventureland" movie and it looked fun, so I Googled it to see if it was a real game and found this site. I dl'd the C:Geo app back when I had an Android phone, but things came up IRL and never got the chance to get into it. Anyways, I just recently got a Windows phone and have been reading and trying to learn the proper way to do it all.

 

I agree the intro app really needs more information.

1. They could maybe add a link to Youtube video(s).

2. I agree with the validating email.

3. Cachers could include a short to do/not do list in their caches. I'm sure there's some that won't bother reading it, but those who really are interested and serious about it would. Could make it pop up like a Jack-in-the-box or that Snake in the nut can and catch their attention

 

There definitely needs to be more "education" going on here. Are they listening to us, or discounting us as a bunch of obnoxious forum ranters? who knows, but my personal observation is that single digit at best percentages of these people are becoming regular Geocachers. It almost reminds me of spamming, where like you send out millions, and get like 20 positive responses. :ph34r:

 

Former Windows Phone user gone droid here! The Windows phone app is unique, in that it's free, but you still have major restrictions on it if you are not a premium member. From what I remember, that app works pretty good.

Edited October 14, 2014 by Mr.Yuck

[+Team Microdot]

Are they listening to us, or discounting us as a bunch of obnoxious forum ranters? who knows...

 

Who knows indeed.

 

They're certainly not engaging in dialogue with us on the subject at any rate.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if they did?

[+KatnissRue]

Are they listening to us, or discounting us as a bunch of obnoxious forum ranters? who knows...

 

Who knows indeed.

 

They're certainly not engaging in dialogue with us on the subject at any rate.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if they did?

That would be the day.

[+thebruce0]

They do, occasionally. Dialogue? Not as much (understandably). But letting us know occasionally that they hear and/or know of things? Definitely.

Does that translates into something we desire? Occasionally.

Is that sufficient for some of us? Obviously, not so much.

[+Team Microdot]

They do, occasionally. Dialogue? Not as much (understandably). But letting us know occasionally that they hear and/or know of things? Definitely.

Does that translates into something we desire? Occasionally.

Is that sufficient for some of us? Obviously, not so much.

 

A fairly accurate analysis.

 

But lack of dialogue is understandable?

[Mr.Yuck]

Here's a cute little intro app story for all y'all. So there's this park in a semi rural setting about 15 miles from my house. Being around since 2003, I can tell you there's been 4 or 5 caches in it over the years, most archived. All that remains is the first ever cache in that park, a 2005 placed 2 leg multi.

 

So a noob who joined in late August who currently has 35 finds places a cache in the park a couple weeks ago. The cache write up pontificates on how the owner couldn't believe there wasn't a cache in the park, and they have now rectified that situation. SAY WHAT? How can they not know there's a 2005 placed multi cache in the park? Took about a week before it hit me. Intro App user, they can't see the multi! Nor had they obviously ever looked at Geocaching.com on the interwebs itself, because surely they could see it there, right? Submitting that cache most likely was their first visit to the website.

 

Nothing more than a cute little story, which I find moderately interesting.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Mr.Yuck

[+KatnissRue]

Here's a cute little intro app story for all y'all. So there's this park in a semi rural setting about 15 miles from my house. Being around since 2003, I can tell you there's been 4 or 5 caches in it over the years, most archived. All that remains is the first ever cache in that park, a 2005 placed 2 leg multi.

 

So a noob who joined in late August who currently has 35 finds places a cache in the park a couple weeks ago. The cache write up pontificates on how the owner couldn't believe there wasn't a cache in the park, and they have now rectified that situation. SAY WHAT? How can they not know there's a 2005 placed multi cache in the park? Took about a week before it hit me. Intro App user, they can't see the multi! Nor had they obviously ever looked at Geocaching.com on the interwebs itself, because surely they could see it there, right? Submitting that cache most likely was their first visit to the website.

 

Nothing more than a cute little story, which I find moderately interesting.

Wow. This entire idea scares me.

[+thebruce0]

A fairly accurate analysis.

 

But lack of dialogue is understandable?

 

It's den of wolves in here.

[+Team Microdot]

A fairly accurate analysis.

 

But lack of dialogue is understandable?

 

It's den of wolves in here.

 

Huh?