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INTRO APP users are killing the hobby


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I understand people's frustration. I get frustrated too, sometimes. But there was a time not too far in the past where there were a surprising (at least to me) amount of lackeys who had never cached before. Now, with Groundspeak promoting a geocaching atmosphere within the company, lackeys are regularly getting out and caching. They may not be up to some people's caching standards yet, but they're getting there over time.

 

I personally am happy to see this happening, and I think that it's more productive to encourage this trend rather than get on lackey's cases because they still haven't met some arbitrary standard. I've been around plenty lackeys while caching or just standing around talking about caching, and they are infectious. A lot of them are like little kids with their enthusiasm towards the sport.

 

Now I know that a lot of this push from Groundspeak to have their lackeys out caching is to show the caching public that the employees of Groundspeak are more involved, and for the employees to understand geocaching more as a whole so they can do a better job. I know that the owners of Groundspeak love geocaching, and are happy to have their employees love the sport as well.

 

But some of the comments in threads lately, disparaging lackey cache logs and find counts have disappointed me. I'd hate to know that lackeys may be seeing these comments, after all this work and fun that they've been going through, and feel like nothing they do will ever be good enough for some.

 

We should be uplifting, not putting down each other.

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I understand people's frustration. I get frustrated too, sometimes. But there was a time not too far in the past where there were a surprising (at least to me) amount of lackeys who had never cached before. Now, with Groundspeak promoting a geocaching atmosphere within the company, lackeys are regularly getting out and caching. They may not be up to some people's caching standards yet, but they're getting there over time.

 

I personally am happy to see this happening, and I think that it's more productive to encourage this trend rather than get on lackey's cases because they still haven't met some arbitrary standard. I've been around plenty lackeys while caching or just standing around talking about caching, and they are infectious. A lot of them are like little kids with their enthusiasm towards the sport.

 

Now I know that a lot of this push from Groundspeak to have their lackeys out caching is to show the caching public that the employees of Groundspeak are more involved, and for the employees to understand geocaching more as a whole so they can do a better job. I know that the owners of Groundspeak love geocaching, and are happy to have their employees love the sport as well.

 

But some of the comments in threads lately, disparaging lackey cache logs and find counts have disappointed me. I'd hate to know that lackeys may be seeing these comments, after all this work and fun that they've been going through, and feel like nothing they do will ever be good enough for some.

 

We should be uplifting, not putting down each other.

I got to meet two Groundspeak lackeys at a mega event in Kentucky. Both were very much the avid geocachers and working hard at the event. That is where we got the coordinates for the lab caches. I just wanted to say thanks to Lackey Larry and Ranger Fox for their hard work.

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I understand people's frustration. I get frustrated too, sometimes. But there was a time not too far in the past where there were a surprising (at least to me) amount of lackeys who had never cached before. Now, with Groundspeak promoting a geocaching atmosphere within the company, lackeys are regularly getting out and caching. They may not be up to some people's caching standards yet, but they're getting there over time.

 

I personally am happy to see this happening, and I think that it's more productive to encourage this trend rather than get on lackey's cases because they still haven't met some arbitrary standard. I've been around plenty lackeys while caching or just standing around talking about caching, and they are infectious. A lot of them are like little kids with their enthusiasm towards the sport.

 

Now I know that a lot of this push from Groundspeak to have their lackeys out caching is to show the caching public that the employees of Groundspeak are more involved, and for the employees to understand geocaching more as a whole so they can do a better job. I know that the owners of Groundspeak love geocaching, and are happy to have their employees love the sport as well.

 

Thanks for posting that. It is refreshing to hear it, and nice to know that a change has been made to reverse the pattern which should result in an overall improvement.

 

 

But some of the comments in threads lately, disparaging lackey cache logs and find counts have disappointed me. I'd hate to know that lackeys may be seeing these comments, after all this work and fun that they've been going through, and feel like nothing they do will ever be good enough for some.

 

We should be uplifting, not putting down each other.

 

If you could point out these disparaging comments it would be helpful. The only one I see is what I posted which is only meant to show inexperience, nothine else. A regular user's logs indicates only what they did. A Lackey is the leader of the pack and a company representative. It is disappointing when there is not much interest or experience shown, knowing there will be a trickle down effect. Being uplifting would be a good thing, but actions are more important than words. Even so, silence about the issue does not help at all. I'd like to see an upgrade which would render the app useless unless there was an email verification. This would be a step in the right direction.

 

That's all I have to say about that, and perhaps all that is needed to be said.

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This shouldn't even be about the Lackeys. The only way it relates is to talk about who is developing and maintaining/updating the app.

 

I think if Groundspeak gets back to the crowdsourced options for their products, they will see renewed interest from the veteran cachers, improved interactions within the game for new cachers, and a better overall product.

 

Rather than caring about find counts for their App developer(s), I'd like to know that they are engaged in the forums and other suggestion-rich discussions of this game and gameplay.

 

It gets to feel a bit like an echo chamber, and the brief drop-ins from Jayme and Moun10bike have been nice. Now, it would be nice if the developers stopped in to say hello, or if they took up the discussion in the Website and App boards, etc.

 

It's clear to me that there are some really, really good ideas here for the Apps, and I hope that they are listening.

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I'm glad my 1st experiance GEOcaching has been good. I've been lucky enuf to meet up with some really great folk's and their teaching me the rights and wrongs of caching. Since starting the week b4 Christmas I've found 16 and have my 1st cache out.

Welcome to the game...6 years ago! :blink:

 

Glad to hear that some fellow geocachers have been helpful in learning the ways of the game.

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Even so, silence about the issue does not help at all. I'd like to see an upgrade which would render the app useless unless there was an email verification. This would be a step in the right direction.

 

That's all I have to say about that, and perhaps all that is needed to be said.

 

Guys, this is getting ridiculous. It is unrealistic to expect an overhaul - or even update - to this app already. It has only been 2 months since this thread was started, and that period includes the entirety of the holiday season. On top of that, we are a very small company - 70 total people, of which maybe a tenth are on the mobile team, less than half of that being developers.

 

And there has not been "silence" from Groundspeak in this thread. I mentioned early on that we have been pushing for a change in the apps to require email validation, and Jayme has chimed in to say we are listening. The decision to not require validation was made long ago by management for a variety of reasons. Some of us would like that to change, but it is not a matter of anyone just snapping their fingers and declaring "it shall be done."

 

Please exercise some patience and understanding. We are not a software megahouse and are not able to throw massive coding efforts onto something overnight, certainly not without some planning and vetting.

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I do know for a fact that Groundspeak is working for change in this area.

 

Guys, this is getting ridiculous. It is unrealistic to expect an overhaul - or even update - to this app already. It has only been 2 months since this thread was started, and that period includes the entirety of the holiday season. On top of that, we are a very small company - 70 total people, of which maybe a tenth are on the mobile team, less than half of that being developers.

 

And there has not been "silence" from Groundspeak in this thread. I mentioned early on that we have been pushing for a change in the apps to require email validation, and Jayme has chimed in to say we are listening. The decision to not require validation was made long ago by management for a variety of reasons. Some of us would like that to change, but it is not a matter of anyone just snapping their fingers and declaring "it shall be done."

 

Please exercise some patience and understanding. We are not a software megahouse and are not able to throw massive coding efforts onto something overnight, certainly not without some planning and vetting.

 

I think this is what people tend to forget...unsure.gif

Edited by ADKer
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I understand people's frustration. I get frustrated too, sometimes. But there was a time not too far in the past where there were a surprising (at least to me) amount of lackeys who had never cached before. Now, with Groundspeak promoting a geocaching atmosphere within the company, lackeys are regularly getting out and caching. They may not be up to some people's caching standards yet, but they're getting there over time.

 

I personally am happy to see this happening, and I think that it's more productive to encourage this trend rather than get on lackey's cases because they still haven't met some arbitrary standard. I've been around plenty lackeys while caching or just standing around talking about caching, and they are infectious. A lot of them are like little kids with their enthusiasm towards the sport.

 

Now I know that a lot of this push from Groundspeak to have their lackeys out caching is to show the caching public that the employees of Groundspeak are more involved, and for the employees to understand geocaching more as a whole so they can do a better job. I know that the owners of Groundspeak love geocaching, and are happy to have their employees love the sport as well.

 

Thanks for posting that. It is refreshing to hear it, and nice to know that a change has been made to reverse the pattern which should result in an overall improvement.

 

 

But some of the comments in threads lately, disparaging lackey cache logs and find counts have disappointed me. I'd hate to know that lackeys may be seeing these comments, after all this work and fun that they've been going through, and feel like nothing they do will ever be good enough for some.

 

We should be uplifting, not putting down each other.

 

If you could point out these disparaging comments it would be helpful. The only one I see is what I posted which is only meant to show inexperience, nothine else. A regular user's logs indicates only what they did. A Lackey is the leader of the pack and a company representative. It is disappointing when there is not much interest or experience shown, knowing there will be a trickle down effect. Being uplifting would be a good thing, but actions are more important than words. Even so, silence about the issue does not help at all. I'd like to see an upgrade which would render the app useless unless there was an email verification. This would be a step in the right direction.

 

That's all I have to say about that, and perhaps all that is needed to be said.

 

There have been some posts in other threads in the past couple of months, sorry that I don't have any specific examples.

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Please exercise some patience and understanding. We are not a software megahouse and are not able to throw massive coding efforts onto something overnight, certainly not without some planning and vetting.

 

I think this is what people tend to forget...unsure.gif

I don't think people forget this. I think they just have some unrealistic view of Groundspeak. That is why we see some people calling for crowd sourcing.

The are probably imaging that Groundspeak is still the the little company that Jeremy, Brian, and Elias ran more like a hobby. Back then various people from the geocaching community volunteered their services, mostly creating offline tools that geocachers could use to prepare for the hunt but probably also a few providing code or artwork that could be used on the site.

 

Groundspeak has long since changed from a hobby into a real business. The reasons may be the experience with some people scraping the Geocaching.com website to provide features like maps or alerts of new caches. Not only did this impact the speed of the website but also interfered with work Groundspeak was already doing to provide similar functionality. They became much more silent on what they were planning and much less friendly to people "crowd sourcing" new functionality.

 

There is certainly more than enough evidence that Groundspeak is interested in what geocachers think and in looking at suggestions they make. But they are not likely to ask the community for "help" to implement a bunch of features that may or may not be warranted. Instead they will assess the ideas provided in threads like this and make a determination as to what changes if any are needed, then they will prioritize these changes and determine when to implement them.

 

Frankly, I'm happy that this results in a slow and thoughtful approach. This thread is nothing but a perception by a few cachers, some of whom may have had a problem with one of their caches, that newbies using the Intro App are killing the hobby.

 

According to this forum, newbies have been killing this hobby since 2002. Whenever I see a thread make this claim I have to laugh. If Groundspeak reacted to thread blaming newbies for destroying the hobby the way some people want them to react now, I suspect that most of the people posting here would never have started geocaching.

 

There may be (and I say may be, because I'm not convinced) an issue with the Intro App not giving newbies the same kind of information they get if they come to website, ask questions in the forums, and respond to emails. There may be an issue with younger kids having mobile devices and a free Intro App making it too easy for them to start geocaching without some adult guidance to protect them (at least in Albuquerque.) Groundspeak can evaluate if these are real problems and make changes to the App if they see fit.

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I do know for a fact that Groundspeak is working for change in this area.

 

Guys, this is getting ridiculous. It is unrealistic to expect an overhaul - or even update - to this app already. It has only been 2 months since this thread was started, and that period includes the entirety of the holiday season. On top of that, we are a very small company - 70 total people, of which maybe a tenth are on the mobile team, less than half of that being developers.

 

And there has not been "silence" from Groundspeak in this thread. I mentioned early on that we have been pushing for a change in the apps to require email validation, and Jayme has chimed in to say we are listening. The decision to not require validation was made long ago by management for a variety of reasons. Some of us would like that to change, but it is not a matter of anyone just snapping their fingers and declaring "it shall be done."

 

Please exercise some patience and understanding. We are not a software megahouse and are not able to throw massive coding efforts onto something overnight, certainly not without some planning and vetting.

 

I think this is what people tend to forget...unsure.gif

 

 

Nobody on this thread (I assume) expected the app to be "fixed" already

 

A simple..." Yes, these are all good ideas that we will pass onto the developing team" would be more like it.

 

Yes..,we heard the email validation is a possibility. But few to no comments on the other stuff

 

 

We know these changes won't be easy, or fast.,,,or even possible. We just want to be heard.

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I'd just like to say that I wish we could change the title of this post.

 

And I'd like to add that I know changes won't happen overnight. I'm glad to hear that suggestions are being listened to.

 

But, you have piqued my interest with this part:

The decision to not require validation was made long ago by management for a variety of reasons.

 

Lastly, at what point is this list of suggestions better discussed in the App board of the forums?

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The goal of the thread is to improve the Intro App. That is done far more easily with Groundspeak's continuing involvement. The thread is not about the Lackeys' find counts. That side conversation is disrespectful and counterproductive.

Regrettably, I need to repeat myself. STOP POSTING OFF TOPIC about the find counts of Groundspeak's employees.

 

Some of us are having a productive discussion; a discussion to which Groundspeak is listening. I now return you to that discussion.

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According to this forum, newbies have been killing this hobby since 2002. Whenever I see a thread make this claim I have to laugh. If Groundspeak reacted to thread blaming newbies for destroying the hobby the way some people want them to react now, I suspect that most of the people posting here would never have started geocaching.
...and that would have been soooo awesome! So many great people back then, and not as many now. There are some, but I suspect those great ones now would have still found their way. But too far along now, and trying to get things to go back to the past is just silly at this point. That is why the Intro App is fine, with or without the adding of email address. Will be interesting to see if Ground Speak changes anything.
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There are always going to be those that wreck things, either by accident or intentionally. I see that as part of the game, even if it's annoying part of it.

 

If we didn't have to worry about muggles, caches would be VERY boring to find, laying out in the open.

 

If we didn't have geocoins stolen or lost, eventually every cache in the world would be overrun with many many trackables... the humanity!

 

If the occasional cache didn't go missing, no one would ever DNF. Some of the more persistent of us would fumble around in the dark, looking for those caches that MUST be there!

 

Shaun

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I don't think this thread is about new cachers--it's about how the Intro App could be improved to help improve/maintain gameplay.

 

It's one thing to complain about "newbies", but another to think of ways to make the transition from "newbie" to "knowledgeable member" a bit smoother.

The point of the Intro app is to attract new cachers. The conversation goes hand-in-hand.
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I don't think this thread is about new cachers--it's about how the Intro App could be improved to help improve/maintain gameplay.

 

It's one thing to complain about "newbies", but another to think of ways to make the transition from "newbie" to "knowledgeable member" a bit smoother.

Certainly. But there has always been a problem with newbies learning about the subtleties of geocaching. I don't believe at all that simply because one started on the website that they know where the forums are, or the help center, or that they even bother reading the Geocaching 101 section or watching the videos.

 

Nor do I believe that people will respond to email just because their email address is validated. And event if they get email, I don't believe that they are all willing to view the suggestions from more experienced geocachera as helpful.

 

The Intro App is a wonderful opportunity to guide one through the first cache hunt or perhaps the first few hunts and provide instructions and tips. But if it becomes too pedantic it will turn some people off. I believe that it can be improved, but I don't believe that it can be made into something that weeds out the "bad" geocachers and trains others to follow only "good" practice.

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I don't think this thread is about new cachers--it's about how the Intro App could be improved to help improve/maintain gameplay.

 

It's one thing to complain about "newbies", but another to think of ways to make the transition from "newbie" to "knowledgeable member" a bit smoother.

Certainly. But there has always been a problem with newbies learning about the subtleties of geocaching. I don't believe at all that simply because one started on the website that they know where the forums are, or the help center, or that they even bother reading the Geocaching 101 section or watching the videos.

 

Nor do I believe that people will respond to email just because their email address is validated. And event if they get email, I don't believe that they are all willing to view the suggestions from more experienced geocachera as helpful.

 

The Intro App is a wonderful opportunity to guide one through the first cache hunt or perhaps the first few hunts and provide instructions and tips. But if it becomes too pedantic it will turn some people off. I believe that it can be improved, but I don't believe that it can be made into something that weeds out the "bad" geocachers and trains others to follow only "good" practice.

Certainly not.

 

But the right tool for the right job, and the best designed tool for the job. Why settle for mediocrity, amiright?

 

And this isn't about the website, no matter how much you want to steer it that way. :anibad:

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If the occasional cache didn't go missing, no one would ever DNF. Some of the more persistent of us would fumble around in the dark, looking for those caches that MUST be there!

 

Shaun

 

Haha, I dnf caches that are still there, all the time. :rolleyes:

Really?? Better get some tips from Shaun! :laughing:

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If the occasional cache didn't go missing, no one would ever DNF. Some of the more persistent of us would fumble around in the dark, looking for those caches that MUST be there!

 

Shaun

 

Haha, I dnf caches that are still there, all the time. :rolleyes:

Really?? Better get some tips from Shaun! :laughing:

I'm such a bad cacher. I need some mentoring.

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Hi everyone. Just got done reading each and every reply to this particular thread. I'm very new to the hobby and have so much to learn still. I know I'll probably hear it for this but after reading all the posts it seems to me that some have forgotten what the definition of "hobby" is. If your not having fun doing it maybe you should look into another hobby. Anyways back to the subject of the intro app users killing the hobby...I was just curious as to if you actually had proof that its because of the app or are you speaking just from one's personal opinion? Also where is this free app? The only one I see on this website is not free...it's $9.99. I await your reply.

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Certainly. But there has always been a problem with newbies learning about the subtleties of geocaching. I don't believe at all that simply because one started on the website that they know where the forums are, or the help center, or that they even bother reading the Geocaching 101 section or watching the videos.

 

I agree. However, the information is there and if they look around even a little they will find these things. Does the intro app make the users aware that there is a website, and a Geocaching 101 section, and forums, and other geocachers willing to help them if they need it?

 

To me it seems that people who are using the intro app are being isolated from everyone else. I don't think that is a good thing.

 

Nor do I believe that people will respond to email just because their email address is validated. And event if they get email, I don't believe that they are all willing to view the suggestions from more experienced geocachera as helpful.

 

I don't understand the argument that just because someone might not respond to an email that we shouldn't be able to contact anyone via email. Sure some people don't check or respond to email but if you don't ask anyone for their email address then NO ONE is able to be contacted via email.

 

The Intro App is a wonderful opportunity to guide one through the first cache hunt or perhaps the first few hunts and provide instructions and tips. But if it becomes too pedantic it will turn some people off. I believe that it can be improved, but I don't believe that it can be made into something that weeds out the "bad" geocachers and trains others to follow only "good" practice.

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Hi everyone. Just got done reading each and every reply to this particular thread. I'm very new to the hobby and have so much to learn still. I know I'll probably hear it for this but after reading all the posts it seems to me that some have forgotten what the definition of "hobby" is. If your not having fun doing it maybe you should look into another hobby. Anyways back to the subject of the intro app users killing the hobby...I was just curious as to if you actually had proof that its because of the app or are you speaking just from one's personal opinion? Also where is this free app? The only one I see on this website is not free...it's $9.99. I await your reply.

 

If you have a smartphone, just go to whatever app store you normally get your apps from and search for "Geocaching"....both the paid and the intro app should be available for download there.

 

I know I'll probably hear it for this but after reading all the posts it seems to me that some have forgotten what the definition of "hobby" is. If your not having fun doing it maybe you should look into another hobby.

 

Yes, you have a point. It's just supposed to be a fun hobby, and it does seem like we get our knickers in a twist about certain aspects of the game. But the point is, the hobby, ANY hobby really, becomes a little less fun when someone inexperienced shows up and mucks things up for the others.

 

I guess that sounds like I don't want to see any new players in the game. Far from it. I welcome anyone who wants to learn. That part is key. If one is willing to admit that there is a lot to learn about this game, any game, and is willing to take the time and patience to learn it, I'm sure that person would find that this is a very friendly community who are willing to help.

 

The problem arises because the Intro app makes it SO easy...you don't have to learn anything...what sort of container am I even looking for, don't tear up the landscape while searching, hide the container exactly how you found it, that sort of thing. In this respect it is very easy for a newbie to mess up the fun for others.

 

And don't forget there are those who will maliciouslymess with other people's caches, just for kicks. The free app makes that easy...they're less likely to pay $10 for the priviledge. Likewise PMO caches.

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... it seems to me that some have forgotten what the definition of "hobby" is. If your not having fun doing it maybe you should look into another hobby. Anyways back to the subject of the intro app users killing the hobby...I was just curious as to if you actually had proof that its because of the app or are you speaking just from one's personal opinion?

GO back and reread some of the posts in this thread. It is from personal experience.

 

I totally agree, if cache owners aren't having fun anymore then they will pack up there caches and leave. How fun would geocaching be without geocaches to find? I know this is an extreme view of the situation and I highly doubt that cache owner will even leave en mass. However, a lot of cache owners in this very thread have said that they have made all their existing caches PMO and will make all future caches PMO too because of inability to contact intro app users.

 

Also where is this free app? The only one I see on this website is not free...it's $9.99. I await your reply.

It's on iTunes here https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/geocaching-intro/id329541503

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There are always going to be those that wreck things, either by accident or intentionally. I see that as part of the game, even if it's annoying part of it.

 

Because something "always is" or "always was" then we are supposed to just roll over and accept it? I don't think that is a good opinion to have especially when where have been many great ideas floated here on how thing could be changed for the better.

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My apologies in advance if I don't post this reply right..still learning how to use the forum too. Just responding to the two that replied back. I guess I took it a bit personal being a newbie and all. Reading what people were saying about new users just left me feeling unwelcomed. We are not all bad!! I didn't just stumble across this site, I actually was looking for it- well not looking for the actual name but I was searching for local scavenger hunts/groups. I am here because I want to be. I'm not rich so I don't have a $600 gps device. I have a $150 smartphone with access to gps apps.I have read geocaching 101 and watched the videos but you know what- I'll still mistakes. It would be nice to have a place where us newbies could actually get the support and guidance from some of the more experienced members instead of getting the feeling that we aren't good enough.

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But the right tool for the right job, and the best designed tool for the job. Why settle for mediocrity, amiright?

The problems is that the Intro App is just that. It's a tool. It is designed to introduce new people to geocaching. But what does that mean?

 

Groundspeak's perspective is probably that it should make it free and easy for smartphone users to try out geocaching. They should be able to get an idea of how many caches there are to find in their are area and should be able to go out and look for a few of these. The features should be limited to encourage new users to want to upgrade to a paid app and a premium membership.

 

From the perspective some cache owners it appears that introduce has a entirely different connotation. They want the app to train the newbies is some other aspects geocaching. I think it is admirable to want Intro App users to understand how to move trackables or that they should leave the site of a cache as they found it. But we could debate all day on which aspects of geocaching the app should train, which should be obvious to anyone starting a new hobby, or which are advanced and best learned over time with experience. The point I'm making is that have always been "bad" geocachers who seem to not understand the simplest etiquette in dealing with caches. I agree that the Intro App can do more to point out these "rules of cache etiquette", but it can't enforce it.

 

If some cache owner is, IMO, overly concerned about newbies finding his cache, perhaps you can let them opt out of being findable using the Intro App. But I'm not sure that the current PMO option isn't already sufficient.

And this isn't about the website, no matter how much you want to steer it that way. :anibad:

Forum threads rarely stay on the same topic. This one has certainly been all over the place - even discussing the geocaching of Groundspeak lackeys. I know that good number of post have been suggestions for changes in the Intro App. I believe the lackeys who have said that they are following this thread and these suggestions, and I expect there will be changes in the Intro App.

 

When suggestions are made, one legitimate response is always "what problem are you trying to solve". In this thread there is a assumption by some that Intro App users are somehow more of a problem than users who came via the website. If I make arguments that the problems attributed to Intro App users have always been attributed to newbies - even when the only option is the website - it is to argue that change the Intro App will not fix the problems that it is trying to solve. That said, I'm not opposed to change the Intro App per se. IMO it can do a better job than the website in educating new cachers. But is it going to be up to Groundspeak to balance education with recruitment of new geocachers.

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If the occasional cache didn't go missing, no one would ever DNF. Some of the more persistent of us would fumble around in the dark, looking for those caches that MUST be there!

 

Shaun

 

Haha, I dnf caches that are still there, all the time. :rolleyes:

Really?? Better get some tips from Shaun! :laughing:

I'm such a bad cacher. I need some mentoring.

The really odd thing is how I can find one cache almost instantly and take ages to find a cache of the same objective difficulty level. :huh:

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And one more thing.....I really don't think you should blame an app for how things are.Seriously, if you think, with caches practically in all the cities all over the world,and even more being created each day, that none will ever be discovered by anyone other than a GC, your crazy. The hobby has grown since first introduced. There are more people out everyday everywhere searching for something that is suppose to be hard to find. Nobody is invisible and we can't freeze time so no muggles( I just had to say that, makes me feel part of something) will ever see us discovering or hiding a cache. Caches get stolen by people and they get ruined by mother nature.... If these things didn't happen and at the rate it keeps going, how long til there isn't anymore hiding places? Yes I'm a newbie but you don't have to be an expert to figure it out. Its common sense. That's why we don't hide valuable items right? Cuz they might get stolen or ruined.its all part of the game ...dates all the way back to the very first geocache.Stop being uptight about it, brush it off, and have fun cause that's why you do it- FUN!

Edited by Keystone
potty language removed by moderator. Don't use potty language.
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But the right tool for the right job, and the best designed tool for the job. Why settle for mediocrity, amiright?

The problems is that the Intro App is just that.

No. It's not. You missed the part where NeverSummer said the right tool for the job. As it stands, the intro app is not the right tool. As many have mentioned, repeatedly, there are numerous improvements which could be made, which would make the into app a more effective tool for introducing new players to this hobby.

 

If something can be improved, without reducing its effectiveness, shouldn't it be?

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And one more thing.....

Deep breaths, dude. B)

 

I really don't think you should blame an app for how things are.

Other than the OP, who was proven wrong before the pixels dried on his post, I don't think anyone is blaming new players for all the woes inherent in this hobby. Rather, I think this thread has evolved, with the gentle guidance of a few Reviewers and Lackeys, into a medium to voice suggestions on how one particular tool, provided by Groundspeak, can be improved.

 

Caches get stolen by people and they get ruined by mother nature....sh*t happens!

Careful. Even with the asterix, this could be a TOU violation.

Treat folks with the respect you expect to receive. Profanity does not improve your argument.

 

Stop being uptight about it.

Suggesting improvements is not "being uptight".

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If the occasional cache didn't go missing, no one would ever DNF. Some of the more persistent of us would fumble around in the dark, looking for those caches that MUST be there!

 

Shaun

 

Haha, I dnf caches that are still there, all the time. :rolleyes:

 

Me too. And usually a newbie comes along and finds it just after me!

 

 

If the occasional cache didn't go missing, no one would ever DNF. Some of the more persistent of us would fumble around in the dark, looking for those caches that MUST be there!

 

Shaun

 

Haha, I dnf caches that are still there, all the time. :rolleyes:

Really?? Better get some tips from Shaun! :laughing:

I'm such a bad cacher. I need some mentoring.

 

Indeed. I am a terrible cacher!!

 

... but you know what- I'll still mistakes....

 

Don't we all....

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Look at the monster jshults (Rally Dude) has created...lol. Has he even posted a reply once?

 

No, he hasn't. He came here to blow off steam about a specific incident. Obviously, he struck a cord, or this thread would not have grown into a monster. It's not the end of the world, but I can recall four local incidents, (including the one that I think prompted the original post), that lead back to an invalidated user who's log is the default of the Intro App. In the grand scheme of things, that is really nothing.

 

Personally, I'd prefer that no one could see the coordinates on my caches unless they are willing to at least offer an email address, even if they have no intention of reading any email.

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But the right tool for the right job, and the best designed tool for the job. Why settle for mediocrity, amiright?

The problems is that the Intro App is just that.

No. It's not. You missed the part where NeverSummer said the right tool for the job. As it stands, the intro app is not the right tool. As many have mentioned, repeatedly, there are numerous improvements which could be made, which would make the into app a more effective tool for introducing new players to this hobby.

 

If something can be improved, without reducing its effectiveness, shouldn't it be?

You missed the part where I pointed out that there are differing views of the purpose of this tool.

 

For some it is to provide a free and easy way for people to experience geocaching. Download the app, turn it on, and go find your first geocache.

 

For others it appears that they want a tool that takes you through a 12 hour training course to familiarize you with various nuances of geocaching. OK, so nobody has asked for a 12 hour course, but making someone sit through a 10 minute video and read a FAQ before they can find a cache may be just as burdensome for someone who found this as spur of moment thing to try.

 

You also missed where I said that I didn't object to changes to the Intro App. I actually believe that because it can be interactive, it can present information to the users without seeming pedantic.

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Look at the monster jshults (Rally Dude) has created...lol. Has he even posted a reply once?

 

No, he hasn't. He came here to blow off steam about a specific incident. Obviously, he struck a cord, or this thread would not have grown into a monster. It's not the end of the world, but I can recall four local incidents, (including the one that I think prompted the original post), that lead back to an invalidated user who's log is the default of the Intro App. In the grand scheme of things, that is really nothing.

 

Personally, I'd prefer that no one could see the coordinates on my caches unless they are willing to at least offer an email address, even if they have no intention of reading any email.

 

I understand. But I am curious as to which exact app doesn't require an email address?

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]

 

I understand. But I am curious as to which exact app doesn't require an email address?

 

Not trying to be rude here...but if you read this thread, or even the title of this thread, then you'd know what app we have been talking about for several weeks now...

 

I know it's a long winded thread...but please don't ask us to rehash a lot of it because you don't want to read it...

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Personally, I'd prefer that no one could see the coordinates on my caches unless they are willing to at least offer an email address, even if they have no intention of reading any email.

Of course if they are like your co-worker they may not even have email. Perhaps a choice of email, Facebook, Twitter, Google+, IM, etc. One could even enable the app to receive notifications from Geocaching.com.

 

There have been request to update the ways one can contact other cachers through Geocaching.com for a while. Mostly these are met in the forums with protest that the Geocaching.com is not a social networking site. Modern websites and smartphone application tend to support some kind of social networking feature - either native to the site/app or in cooperation with an established social networking site. Rather than shutting out people who don't use email, open things up to allow more ways to communicate.

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]

 

I understand. But I am curious as to which exact app doesn't require an email address?

 

Not trying to be rude here...but if you read this thread, or even the title of this thread, then you'd know what app we have been talking about for several weeks now...

 

I know it's a long winded thread...but please don't ask us to rehash a lot of it because you don't want to read it...

 

Wow! Sweetie IF YOU are following the thread then you would know that I read every post/reply. And I don't know where you got that I asked you to rehash a lot of it. I asked one question which would've required a one/two word answer. Talk about blowing it WAY out of proportion.Gee Whiz! Anyways I take it that its the IPhone app that your specifically talking about. I use the Android app and there is no intro for it.

Oops... I forgot to say not trying to be rude at the beginning but better late then never.

Edited by bumpkins35
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*you're*

 

 

So, asking you to read up isn't 'friendly', huh?

 

You've got to toughen up to survive these forums. What I said to you was nothing but frank and polite

 

Read. We've given a lot to this thread. Read. Then post. If you don't even know or understand the app, why did you even ever reply here? What could you have to offer as far as improvements to the intro app, when you don't even know what it is? Or it's shortcomings? How can you up offer up any improvements?

 

Before your panties get twisted JUST BECAUSE I asked you to read, think about that.

 

And don't call me sweetie. It makes you look passive aggressive. Man up, and call me out, if you will. But no sweeties here...

Edited by JesandTodd
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Why would we really need more geocachers?

 

Certainly we don't need more people running around causing issues with existing caches and grief for existing members.

 

The 'Introduction to Geocaching' app should have been an app that explains the basics of geocaching, not an app that provides NO information about the activity but allows 'crippleware' access to the database.

 

Groundspeak is a for-profit company, and as such they are mostly interested in making money by selling memberships and fully-functioning apps.

 

If 'a few' caches get wrecked in the process, it's not their concern...since they are 'only a listing service'.

 

They are gambling that the income from converted intro app users will exceed the loss from cheesed-off oldtimers who quit.

 

I would have made the same bet.

 

Much like the European price hike, not many are going to quit paying because of this issue.

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Groundspeak is a for-profit company, and as such they are mostly interested in making money by selling memberships and fully-functioning apps.

 

If 'a few' caches get wrecked in the process, it's not their concern...since they are 'only a listing service'.

 

They are gambling that the income from converted intro app users will exceed the loss from cheesed-off oldtimers who quit.

 

I would have made the same bet.

 

Much like the European price hike, not many are going to quit paying because of this issue.

I don't believe anyone will quit over this.

- But as more COs have problems, they may either rate their D/T higher or make 'em pmo, making the "intro" plan a dud.

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*you're*

 

 

So, asking you to read up isn't 'friendly', huh?

 

You've got to toughen up to survive these forums. What I said to you was nothing but frank and polite

 

Read. We've given a lot to this thread. Read. Then post. If you don't even know or understand the app, why did you even ever reply here? What could you have to offer as far as improvements to the intro app, when you don't even know what it is? Or it's shortcomings? How can you up offer up any improvements?

 

Before your panties get twisted JUST BECAUSE I asked you to read, think about that.

 

And don't call me sweetie. It makes you look passive aggressive. Man up, and call me out, if you will. But no sweeties here...

 

LMAO!! Quite it your too funny! "Man Up" and " Call You Out" are you serious? Your getting mad because I did not react like a crazy person. I hate to disappoint you but I was raised better than that. I don't know how old you are but I'm 35 and I act 35 not 14 or 15 like back in high school. Besides I don't even know you, so there is NOTHING you could say to me that would matter that much. Looks like you'll have to try to pick a fight with someone else...I'm grown!

 

Just for GP....how would one go about "calling you out?" Do we exchange coordinates and I try to find you with the GPS app? LMAO!!! Quit it your making me laugh my stomach hurts.

Edited by bumpkins35
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