INTRO APP users are killing the hobby

[+JBnW]

 

I like this idea. If it's an Intro why use real caches? Have it be an anywhere Wherigo and virtually find some. Why use real CO's caches in the Intro if the newbies are only trying it out? Or unless some CO's want to volunteer some on their caches for the Intro App.

Re: the bolded bit...because the app would have to show the user a sufficient number of caches anywhere in the world to keep them interested enough in the game to continue playing. The only source for those caches right now are existing ones. Any alternative to using existing caches would require a large number of "Intro" caches to be placed all over the world. Remember, new cachers don't just pop-up in the large mega-metropolises, the app would have to cater to anyone everywhere. As for virtual finds, I would think a very new cacher would have a far better first experience finding an actual container, rather than following the app to some random spot, and having it proclaim "Congratulations! You're Here!"

 

And from CR's previous post:

 

Do you want your potential customers hooked from the very first find,

 

Another way to phrase this would be, "do you want your potential customers thinking LPCs, GRCs, and smelly dumpsters are what caching's all about from the very first find,..." As has been often said, how one gets introduced this sport has a large part in how they see and play it into the future. Speaking from recent personal experience, we've had a significant growth in our local caching community in the last several months, and most of their early finds were film cans in road signs. And guess what, there's been an overall proliferation of film cans and bison tubes, even in places where one could safely hide a Buick let alone an ammo can. Why??, because "that's how this game is played...right?"

 

If a new cacher makes it through the Intro app in whatever form the app takes, and gets hooked on the game, they'll get to those caches eventually. I don't think the app has to include only the best of the best....just take a good swipe weeding out those caches which give a less-than-desirable first impression.

[+tozainamboku]

If it's an Intro why use real caches? Have it be an anywhere Wherigo and virtually find some. Why use real CO's caches in the Intro if the newbies are only trying it out? Or unless some CO's want to volunteer some on their caches for the Intro App.

If you want to introduce people to geocaching by simulating a cache hunt, why bother with a Wherigo app. Just put out a video game that can be played on the phone or even through a web browser. Let people sit on the couch at home and "find" that cache. That ought to give a feel on how it's done.

 

Then we can all complain with they sign up an start couch potato logging real caches without going to find them.

 

TPTB and most everyone else want to portray geocaching as an outdoor activity. You use GPS to locate a (usually) physical cache. The Intro App must let people go outside and find real caches close by. It needs to allow people to see the variety of caches that are out there - even those that most people would have little desire to hunt.

 

The question seems more of just how hard is it to convey the "rules" of how the game is played. What happens is that people don't want to read instructions. Maybe a more interactive experience will "guide" someone by introducing "rules" as the hunt proceeds so that people don't realize they are being fed instructions. I still believe that people will ignore even what an interactive first hunt app tells them - especially the first time the hunt a cache without it. But if everyone else thinks that the game is so complicated now that newbies need to be instructed before they can go find any caches, perhaps an interactive guide that incorporates a real cache hunt would be worth developing.

[+Don_J]

 

When I began, I purposely looked for 3+ terrain caches. There were already plenty of urban caches near me - even back then - but I skipped them as there were so many others to find that met my criteria. I believe an app that gives choices will be used by cachers to choose the caches they think they will enjoy more. If they can't figure this out using the intro app, imaging the disappointment of spending $10 to find out all those extra caches they couldn't see on the intro app were either too lame or too difficult.

 

 

A properly designed INTRO app would push them to the web site where they could see how many caches are in their area and look at the cache descriptions, maybe even read some logs to get a feel for the other players in the area, and then make a decision if they want to invest the $10. Maybe the INTRO app can even bring up the caches for research/advertising purposes, just not navigate to them. Instead of hiding the icons, make them visible so the INTRO player can see what is available if they upgrade their app.

 

I know that I keep pushing the web site, but I think of it as the central hub that links everything. I browsed the web site for two days before I even made the decision to go and buy the Blue Legend that was on sale at Walmart. I read all of the help pages, (much fewer back then), and the descriptions and logs on about two dozen local caches. I could sense that they was something greater than, go find cache, write name in book, and I wanted to be part of it. More importantly, I wanted to do it correctly.

[+tozainamboku]

 

When I began, I purposely looked for 3+ terrain caches. There were already plenty of urban caches near me - even back then - but I skipped them as there were so many others to find that met my criteria. I believe an app that gives choices will be used by cachers to choose the caches they think they will enjoy more. If they can't figure this out using the intro app, imaging the disappointment of spending $10 to find out all those extra caches they couldn't see on the intro app were either too lame or too difficult.

 

 

A properly designed INTRO app would push them to the web site where they could see how many caches are in their area and look at the cache descriptions, maybe even read some logs to get a feel for the other players in the area, and then make a decision if they want to invest the $10. Maybe the INTRO app can even bring up the caches for research/advertising purposes, just not navigate to them. Instead of hiding the icons, make them visible so the INTRO player can see what is available if they upgrade their app.

 

I know that I keep pushing the web site, but I think of it as the central hub that links everything. I browsed the web site for two days before I even made the decision to go and buy the Blue Legend that was on sale at Walmart. I read all of the help pages, (much fewer back then), and the descriptions and logs on about two dozen local caches. I could sense that they was something greater than, go find cache, write name in book, and I wanted to be part of it. More importantly, I wanted to do it correctly.

Go talk to your co-worker with no email. Websites are as old fashioned to todays kids as email. If there isn't an app for it, it ain't worth doing. And one reason an app is better is that you can start using it right away without having to spend two days browsing.

 

On the other hand, app developers are pretty good at scraping websites (when there isn't a better API) to show their users just what the want to see.

 

If in fact there is more than: go find cache, write name in book, and log online; then I agree that an Intro app that guides you step by step is a way to present the information to today's impatient youth who find websites too hard to navigate and wouldn't spend the time reading the help center information even if they could find it.

 

But an app that only gives you only a virtual experience or one that picks out the cache you should find based on some 50 year old's idea of what the ideal first cache is ain't gonna cut it.

[+Team Microdot]

Websites are as old fashioned to todays kids as email.

 

Says who?

 

If there isn't an app for it, it ain't worth doing. And one reason an app is better is that you can start using it right away without having to spend two days browsing.

 

You have to spend two days browsing now just to be able to use a website? Really?

 

I've used a bunch of websites today with no training whatsoever...I must be a genius!

[+thebruce0]

Another point about focusing on Groundspeak's app for INTRO caches is that there are numerous geocaching apps out there. There is zero guarantee that the first gc app someone will use will be the "proper" introductory app. IF anything is done to address the issue, it can't be solely on the app experience.

 

IF there was a property of certain caches that separates them from others as beginner-friendly, then at least other app developers would have the option to enable, however they see fit, a beginner mode to find only those caches.

[+Dogmeat*]

The first step is recognizing the issue. The next step is coming up with how to make it better.

 

How do we, as a Geocaching community, get Intro app/app only users to learn more about the game?

 

Great constructive addition to the conversation, NeverSummer. Let's talk about this, guys. As community members, we are all responsible for bringing up the new generation of geocachers. How can we offer our help or a re-direction when we see someone trying to figure out how to play this incredibly nuanced game? Was there someone who helped you figure out the proper caching etiquette when you started?

 

We are asking questions like these at HQ, as well. How can we offer guidance and instruction to the new folks who want to come play? How can we support the current community with helping them educate and spread the word? To start with, we are working on more informative blog/FB posts, updating and reorganizing the Help Center, and thinking of fun new ways to inform newbies of the fine tuned, community created, social etiquette mores. In addition, I will let you know that the default log text in the Intro App was just supposed to be an example log and not something that they could use to post a log to any cache. We will be following up on this to make sure that the text is not introducing new cachers to bland/lazy logging techniques.

 

Many of you are already AMAZINGLY helpful to the new cachers who ask questions in the forums. As a fellow community member - I want to say a big THANK YOU for that. Since we are all stewards of the game I ask the same question to the rest of the community: What are some other ways that we can guide and teach the newest players on a local level?

 

For the text on the app, there's a way to do grey text, correct? As in, it shows up for them to read, but it doesn't show up on the app as actual text for them to post? For example, the search bar here at Groundspeak. It says search, you click on it, search is now gone. For the app, why not grey text "Tell us about your experience!".

 

Second, I strongly agree to having people verify their email. This will weed out one timers for sure.

 

I'm a fairly new user, caching for almost a year now. I use the paid app for the most part, but I have a GPS for non urban caches. I agree that a tip of the day should be added. One of the most helpful things from when I started, was a couple members in the community emailed me asking me where I'm from and everything, and talking to me about caching and giving tips. They also recommended some finds to me and some friends. While I'm fairly new, I would still consider myself experienced to an extent, and I help out new users as well.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Dogmeat*

[+NeverSummer]

Another point about focusing on Groundspeak's app for INTRO caches is that there are numerous geocaching apps out there. There is zero guarantee that the first gc app someone will use will be the "proper" introductory app. IF anything is done to address the issue, it can't be solely on the app experience.

 

IF there was a property of certain caches that separates them from others as beginner-friendly, then at least other app developers would have the option to enable, however they see fit, a beginner mode to find only those caches.

True, and not mentioned enough here due to taboo nature of other apps.

 

But, Groundspeak can control their official apps. Generally, offical apps are going to get more press, better updates, and more users in turn. (Not always true, but you know what I'm saying)

 

So, we can chat about the Intro App to stay on topic, but the other apps are also worth chatting about. (I think the other apps are harder to find in the app store unless you know what you're looking for.)

[+JohnCNA]

One other thought: We are discussing the Official Geocaching Intro App. What about all the other geocaching app demos out there? Does Groundspeak have the ability to control what level of gameplay they provide?

API is the same for non-PM users on all apps.

[+6NoisyHikers]

One other thought: We are discussing the Official Geocaching Intro App. What about all the other geocaching app demos out there? Does Groundspeak have the ability to control what level of gameplay they provide?

API is the same for non-PM users on all apps.

 

I'm not quite computer-savvy enough to understand what that means. I know all the apps pull from the same database of cache information, but can all apps be limited to 5 caches for demo purposes if Groundspeak chose to go that way?

[+JohnCNA]

One other thought: We are discussing the Official Geocaching Intro App. What about all the other geocaching app demos out there? Does Groundspeak have the ability to control what level of gameplay they provide?

API is the same for non-PM users on all apps.

 

I'm not quite computer-savvy enough to understand what that means. I know all the apps pull from the same database of cache information, but can all apps be limited to 5 caches for demo purposes if Groundspeak chose to go that way?

Yes, that's what I meant. A non-PM cacher running any app will have the same limitations.

[I!]

API is the same for non-PM users on all apps.

The API permits anonymous discovery of the published coordinates for any cache. So any PM traditional cache can be considered publicly available. The logbook and gallery are also wide open, potentially giving clues to assist in the discovery of non-traditional cache types.

[+MKFmly]

These hundreds and thousands of INTRO user are killing the hobby....

 

They are stealing caches, hiding caches without ever FINDING one.

They show up for a few days and reek havoc and they are GONE....

 

To add a bit of perspective to this thread: in the past month, there have been 20,239 unarchived find/attended/photo taken logs posted using the default log text present in the intro app. In that same time frame, here have been 7,203,887 unarchived find/attended/photo taken logs posted in total. Those noticeable intro app logs thus account for 0.28% of all logs during the month.

 

Frankly, the proposition in the original post is a logical fallacy and is currently unsupported by any facts or data, in fact limited data suggests otherwise. The noted issues have occurred in the past (prior to the app/smart phone era) and do occur today. However, to attribute those issues primarily to a statistically insignificant portion of cachers is absurd.

 

Notwithstanding, the good ideas suggested to improve the intro app, consider this: Most jurisdictions require young drivers to pass a test. We see them on the roads; some drive great, some drive poorly, and others occasionally make mistakes. We also see many drivers with 5 years’ experience, 10 years’ experience, and much more experience; some drive great, some drive poorly, and others occasionally make mistakes...and the experienced drivers are more representative of the driving population...

[+NeverSummer]

I'll insert an aside for a moment...

 

I'm glad Jayme H and Moun10bike stopped by. I'd love to know if this discussion has made it onto any other radars, or has entered any kind of discussion in the conference room at Groundspeak?

 

That's the kind of helpful feedback that makes for a nice discussion. It's always nice to know your god is there when you start to pray!

[Clan Riffster]

I'm glad Jayme H and Moun10bike stopped by. I'd love to know if this discussion has made it onto any other radars, or has entered any kind of discussion in the conference room at Groundspeak?

Me too!

Inquiring minds want to know?

[+NeverSummer]

And, isn't this threadrather telling?

 

The website is paramount. Geocaching.com is where the real game is played. The Official Apps, authorized Apps, unauthorized apps, GPS units, facebook pages, and twitter accounts are all tools for the game...which is maintained, played and organized on the website.

 

If Intro App folks were directed to the website FIRST for email registration and validation, they would have an opportunity to learn more about the game, including how to upgrade membership and upgrade an app, and why one might want to do either.

 

I don't know what the descriptions can say on the App stores, but they clearly need to include more information. The App really needs to do a better job of introducing people to the game...and it seems obvious that that means either a hand-holding version of the App, or a mandatory trip to the website for some intro and info.

[+tozainamboku]

Websites are as old fashioned to todays kids as email.

 

Says who?

It's just my opinion but based on what I've see the younger guys do and from watching my nephews. The fact is that few will surf the web looking for things because there are apps that do it better. Sure many times an app opens a web page, if it has to. But as I said, the app developers will scrape the website and create their own interface if they can.

If there isn't an app for it, it ain't worth doing. And one reason an app is better is that you can start using it right away without having to spend two days browsing.

 

You have to spend two days browsing now just to be able to use a website? Really?

 

I've used a bunch of websites today with no training whatsoever...I must be a genius!

The two days was a response to Don_J who said he spent two days browsing the website before going to Walmart to by a GPS. Certainly he wanted to feel confident that he would enjoy geocaching before spending that money. You don't really need to spend two days browsing the site before you can use it for geocaching, but someone who downloads an app (even a free one) will expect to use it right away.

 

I know I started playing Angry Birds as soon as I downloaded it and it wasn't till I was getting frustrated at some of the higher levels that I found out tapping the screen gave some birds increased power. I suspect someone downloading a geocaching app expects to be able to immediately go geocaching with it. I think even an old guy like me would be disappointed if I had to take lessons and play Wherigo games before it would let me find a cache that was chosen for me.

Edited November 16, 2013 by tozainamboku

[+JesandTodd]

Geocaching.com is where the real game is played.

 

Do you think? I don't.

 

I'll get on to scope out a map or make a new PQ before I go on a trip.

 

I love reading logs, but I can also do that via the app.

 

If I'm not traveling....I don't need GC.com. Yeah yeah yeah, the *app* needs GC.com...but...me...not so much. I certainly wouldn't say its necessary for my game. And as my official app improves, I use/need GC.com less and less

[+cerberus1]

Geocaching.com is where the real game is played.

 

Do you think? I don't.

 

I'll get on to scope out a map or make a new PQ before I go on a trip.

 

I love reading logs, but I can also do that via the app.

 

If I'm not traveling....I don't need GC.com. Yeah yeah yeah, the *app* needs GC.com...but...me...not so much. I certainly wouldn't say its necessary for my game. And as my official app improves, I use/need GC.com less and less

Please explain and humor this dyslexic old fart for a bit...

I'm having a tough time understanding how Geocaching.com isn't necessary for your game.

I understand you get it's needed for the app to work.

You state that "as my app improves, I use/need GC.com less and less".

- Even if you went to a basic member and never again logged into the site, wouldn't you still have to "use/need" GC.com for everything to run smoothly?

Wouldn't that make it "necessary" for your game?

[+6NoisyHikers]

Would it be possible for the app to push events that are local to the user? If not, this is where those community mentors/liaisons/welcome wagon come in. Someone over in the How Do I forum wants to know how to recognize other cachers. The best answer given is to attend an event. With a validated enail, cachers can reach out to new members and personally invite them.

[+Team Microdot]

It's just my opinion but based on what I've see the younger guys do and from watching my nephews.

 

I think you would be the first to agree that's hardly a representative sample.

 

The fact is that few will surf the web looking for things because there are apps that do it better.

 

Better than Google (for example)?

 

Sure many times an app opens a web page, if it has to. But as I said, the app developers will scrape the website and create their own interface if they can.

 

Sounds a rather inefficient way of doing things to me - prone to breaking every time the website gets rejigged.

 

The two days was a response to Don_J who said he spent two days browsing the website before going to Walmart to by a GPS. Certainly he wanted to feel confident that he would enjoy geocaching before spending that money. You don't really need to spend two days browsing the site before you can use it for geocaching, but someone who downloads an app (even a free one) will expect to use it right away.

 

I know I started playing Angry Birds as soon as I downloaded it and it wasn't till I was getting frustrated at some of the higher levels that I found out tapping the screen gave some birds increased power. I suspect someone downloading a geocaching app expects to be able to immediately go geocaching with it. I think even an old guy like me would be disappointed if I had to take lessons and play Wherigo games before it would let me find a cache that was chosen for me.

 

Yes - I realised the two days comment was a response to Don_J.

 

I think one of the fundamental aims arising from the OP is to address the very fact that people expect to download an app and jump in with both feet - with little to no underlying knowledge about the game - and how the app might be improved to fix that and the problems that arise from that.

 

When you're playing Angry Birds you're not interfering with property belonging to others - or handling it ways which are outside their expectations or the rules of the game - and there's no risk of you spoiling things for others as a result of your lack of experience or willingness to gain some by doing the requisite research. So comparing Angry Birds and the Geocaching app isn't really helpful in that regard.

 

I had half an idea last night that might work well with the given audience - leveraging a mechanism which is frequently seen in video games - and even games which are apps

 

Many video games are comparatively complex and the software houses frequently build sandbox functionality right in, to allow players to get to grips with the control systems and the use of them to interact with the in-game environment and thus to progress effectively. Once the player has undertaken the sandbox exercises they then progress out into the game environment proper.

 

Many video games also incorporate level locking mechanisms such that higher levels can only be unlocked subject to a degree of achievement by the player at lower levels. Thus there's an incentive mechanism which encourages people to develop their skills at lower levels to a point at which they are ready for the upper levels - and get a shiny new toy of some sort as a reward for that effort.

 

Perhaps some of this functionality could be included in the intro geocaching app? Reward the player by unlocking more complex levels once they've achieved a certain level of competence on lower levels. Perhaps something as simple as limiting play to Traditional caches and unlock further levels after a number of finds AND a short quiz about the next level i.e. multi-caches etc. Perhaps ultimately the player could earn themselves a 1 month trial of Premium Membership to the website - and be encouraged to head over to the website to make used of all the enhanced PMO features there?

 

As I say - it's only half an idea.

[+tozainamboku]

It's just my opinion but based on what I've see the younger guys do and from watching my nephews.

 

I think you would be the first to agree that's hardly a representative sample.

Yes but one is allowed to have an opinion. I'm only a little annoyed when I get called out for posting an opinion and not stating it it only an opinion. But when I reply that is an opinion and I give reasons why this is my opinion and I still get snarky responses, then, IMO, someone is just be argumentative.

 

I'll have to agree that my nephews are not a representative example as they are doing exceptionally well compared with some other millennials. The younger guys at work are also well above average. I could remark that because of the work I do, I need to keep up with tech and certainly feel that I read enough articles to give me some idea of the direction the technology is going. I can remember before there was a world wide web, so I've seen technology change a few times already. I may not have a crystal ball, but I think I know enough to have an opinion.

 

The fact is that few will surf the web looking for things because there are apps that do it better.

 

Better than Google (for example)?

Google has some nice apps to search the web, and not only on Android phones. So does Bing. Most of these apps do launch the browser from the results pages. Some specific search apps will present data from third party sites within the app.

 

Already personal assistant apps like Siri will do web search, send text messages, make reservations through travel website, etc. All without the user needing to use the browser or access web sites directly.

 

Sure many times an app opens a web page, if it has to. But as I said, the app developers will scrape the website and create their own interface if they can.

 

Sounds a rather inefficient way of doing things to me - prone to breaking every time the website gets rejigged.

True Which is why app developers will prefer an API if there is one. But even just looking at unofficial geocaching apps, there are many that were developed before the API and still some that don't use the API because the developers don't want to accept Groundspeak's restrictions. These apps may violate the Groundspeak TOUs, but that doesn't stop individuals from developing them or using them.

 

I think one of the fundamental aims arising from the OP is to address the very fact that people expect to download an app and jump in with both feet - with little to no underlying knowledge about the game - and how the app might be improved to fix that and the problems that arise from that.

I understand the concern with newbies not understanding the nuances of the game and mishandling caches and travel bugs. I've been geocaching for over 10 years and these complaints have been around since before I started. I even mentioned earlier in the thread that I remember a conversation with other old timers when the OP started caching over his and other newb of the time placing too many low quality caches in uninteresting locations.

 

There have also been complaints since I began of people using the website to locate caches they could steal or loot.

 

When you place a cache you run the risk of it or it's contents being taken. Sometimes its a muggle who finds the cache accidentally. Sometimes it is cache pirate (or cache maggot) who thinks its fun to look up caches on the site in order to steal them. (It's a lot cheaper than buying an ammo can at the surplus store). Rarely, its a new geocacher who doesn't quite understand that you should replace the cached as found, that you should leave something of greater or equal value to what you take, and that if you find a travel bug and decide to move it you should log that on Geocaching.com.

 

It may be that the Intro app can improve a bit in how that last group is educated. In my opinion, base on my observation from geoaching for over 10 years, is that this addresses only a very small part of the problem. It may be low hanging fruit and still worth doing. But I wouldn't do it if is it a huge project.

 

On the other hand, I believe that a free geocaching app might be attracting some of the cache maggot groups. Often these are teenagers who find the idea of getting some adults ticked off over losing something of little actual value, might start a fad of getting the app to see which caches are worth stealing. Fortunately most caches today are cheep micros with no swag, so these kids ought to get bored quickly. But a rash of cache thefts might also discourage cachers from hiding better container and stocking them with swag. So we all suffer.

[+Team Microdot]

Yes but one is allowed to have an opinion. I'm only a little annoyed when I get called out for posting an opinion and not stating it it only an opinion. But when I reply that is an opinion and I give reasons why this is my opinion and I still get snarky responses, then, IMO, someone is just be argumentative.

 

Absolutely - we're all allowed to have an opinion

 

I'm sorry to hear that you're even a little annoyed, although I am slightly shocked at the idea that questioning a viewpoint on here merits tarring with the snarky and argumentative brushes I'd have to say if that's the case - I'm in very good company

 

Lots of other stuff - see above

 

For what it's worth I'm not convinced that the intro geocaching app is the root of all the issues it's being blamed for here either - but I can see how it could be leveraged to educate and encourage the high standards of practice that can only benefit the game.

 

I certainly don't believe it will ever replace the website - if for no other reason that it's far easier to sit and study the breadth of material already available on the website in the comfort of one's home with the luxuries of quiet time and larger screens than it will ever be to do the same out in the field, trying to learn on the job so to speak.

 

Keeping up with technology is fairly fundamental to the work I do too - although I would never claim to know everything. One thing I have noticed over the years though is that the movement while appearing to be linear is often cyclical - as if the purveyors of technology shift first from one foot and then back to the other in terms of what's in at the moment - although I personally think that's probably just a means to keep extracting currency from our wallets

[+JesandTodd]

Geocaching.com is where the real game is played.

 

Do you think? I don't.

 

I'll get on to scope out a map or make a new PQ before I go on a trip.

 

I love reading logs, but I can also do that via the app.

 

If I'm not traveling....I don't need GC.com. Yeah yeah yeah, the *app* needs GC.com...but...me...not so much. I certainly wouldn't say its necessary for my game. And as my official app improves, I use/need GC.com less and less

Please explain and humor this dyslexic old fart for a bit...

I'm having a tough time understanding how Geocaching.com isn't necessary for your game.

I understand you get it's needed for the app to work.

You state that "as my app improves, I use/need GC.com less and less".

- Even if you went to a basic member and never again logged into the site, wouldn't you still have to "use/need" GC.com for everything to run smoothly?

Wouldn't that make it "necessary" for your game?

 

Sigh...

 

No. What I said was *I* don't need the website. I thought I made that pretty clear but I'll explain further.

 

 

The conversation has been trending towards sending more people to the website.

Then the comment I quoted said the website is where it all happens, and where we all need to go (I'm paraphrasing and using my memories as I use my iPhone when posting)

 

I said, I don't use the website that much.

 

Yes, My app does. Yes, Other apps I use do. Blah blah blah. I'm not an idiot. I realize the website is behind it all. Yes, I am aware of the role of GC.com in my geocaching world.

 

*I*, as a user, need to interact with the website, GC.com, very little

 

the whole point of the thread is users who only use the intro app and not the website are killing the game...

And what my post implied....maybe not directly enough, was...yes., a user can be a successful geocacher AND not use GC.com

[+kittehkat]

Okay, after reading through some of the horror stories on here, it's clear people should have to take a multiple choice/true-false style quiz and get all of the answers right before being allowed to download this INTRO APP. No joke.

 

After they get all of the answers right, they're given a unique code required to download the free app.

 

I've been caching since 2010, as an iphone user from the moment I found out about the app, but I don't consider myself to be a horrible geocacher (although I once kept a travel bug for too long, and I would have learned about that faux paux much earlier had I been quizzed on it). But I started geocaching because a friend got me hooked, so I had someone to teach me many of the rules.

 

BUT I can completely see how someone with no one to teach them wouldn't know a lot of things.

 

I've come up with some questions (I didn't create answers as I'm sure GS is the most qualified to create the actual answers to choose from.)

 

Questions:

 

1.) What is a travel bug?

 

2.) If you find a travel bug, what should you do with it?

 

3.) What is the most accurate geocaching device? (i.e. handheld GPS, iPhone app, or car GPS.)

 

4.) What is the only type of device that should be used to hide geocaches? (i.e. handheld GPS, iPhone app, or car GPS.)

 

5.) Which of the following are characteristics of good hiding spots for caches.

 

6.) It is okay to hide caches on private property? (T/F question.)

 

7.) What should you do with the items you find in a container?

 

8.) Which of the following are characteristics of a good cache container.

 

9.) What should you include in a cache you are hiding?

 

What else could go on the quiz...

 

If GS implemented some sort of quiz it would work better if each question was multiple choice. For example,

 

1. What is a travel bug?

A. a type of insect that is often found in geocaches.

B. an ailment commonly cause by traveling between geocaches

C. a trackable tag that you attach to an item

D. something that is responsible for 10% of groundspeaks revenue.

 

If you answered D, it would respond:

Incorrect. The correct answer is C. For more information see the Travel Bug page.

 

The point of the quiz should be educational, not to test if someone knows all the answers. You can take the quiz several time in a row until you answered, say, 8-10 questions correct. Since you would always be told the correct answer to each question, the quiz itself will educate new users.

 

Good point about not having to retake the quiz until all the answers are right, and I like the idea of linking to the right answer. I still feel like a really broad quiz for learning purposes would be great. We can't really fault newcomers for not knowing all the rules, since there is a LOT of information available, and it can be difficult to know what is the most important information to seek out when you're new to something. The quiz would solve that. Even if you have a friend teaching you, they may not share ALL of the most important info with you.

 

Maybe rather than the extra step of an approval code, just requiring people to take the quiz (and being directed to the right answer if necessary) is enough. An approval code might make geocaching seem a bit elitist, but a quiz on it's own would still get the job done of helping new cachers be good at it.

Edited November 16, 2013 by kittehkat

[+Don_J]

Geocaching.com is where the real game is played.

 

Do you think? I don't.

 

I'll get on to scope out a map or make a new PQ before I go on a trip.

 

I love reading logs, but I can also do that via the app.

 

If I'm not traveling....I don't need GC.com. Yeah yeah yeah, the *app* needs GC.com...but...me...not so much. I certainly wouldn't say its necessary for my game. And as my official app improves, I use/need GC.com less and less

Please explain and humor this dyslexic old fart for a bit...

I'm having a tough time understanding how Geocaching.com isn't necessary for your game.

I understand you get it's needed for the app to work.

You state that "as my app improves, I use/need GC.com less and less".

- Even if you went to a basic member and never again logged into the site, wouldn't you still have to "use/need" GC.com for everything to run smoothly?

Wouldn't that make it "necessary" for your game?

 

Sigh...

 

No. What I said was *I* don't need the website. I thought I made that pretty clear but I'll explain further.

 

 

The conversation has been trending towards sending more people to the website.

Then the comment I quoted said the website is where it all happens, and where we all need to go (I'm paraphrasing and using my memories as I use my iPhone when posting)

 

I said, I don't use the website that much.

 

Yes, My app does. Yes, Other apps I use do. Blah blah blah. I'm not an idiot. I realize the website is behind it all. Yes, I am aware of the role of GC.com in my geocaching world.

 

*I*, as a user, need to interact with the website, GC.com, very little

 

the whole point of the thread is users who only use the intro app and not the website are killing the game...

And what my post implied....maybe not directly enough, was...yes., a user can be a successful geocacher AND not use GC.com

 

Has this always been true for you? (Honest question, not an argument.) Obviously, as an experienced geocacher with a smartphone and the geocaching app, your dependance on the web site is greatly reduced. This topic is not about experienced geocachers however, it's about getting the new intro app user who has no experience or knowledge of the game, the experience and knowledge they need to be an asset to the community instead of a burden. Either that is going to happen by reaching out to them, them browsing the help topics on the web site, or through a more robust and interactive app that teaches them the ropes, so to speak.

 

The opening post could be considered anti-app, but I think the direction that the topic took afterwards has been anything but, and more about solving a problem before it becomes overwhelming. I think that the conversation has been quite positive and I'm not sure why an experienced smartphone user would be offended by it.

[+wmpastor]

Websites are as old fashioned to todays kids as email.

Says who?

It's just my opinion but based on what I've see the younger guys do and from watching my nephews. The fact is that few will surf the web looking for things because there are apps that do it better. Sure many times an app opens a web page, if it has to.

My observation is that it's not universal. They'll use whatever works best for the particular situation.

 

Edit: now that I think of it, that's me with the gc.com vs. app issue. I use both. For me, one is not better than the other. I use each in different times & places.

Edited November 16, 2013 by wmpastor

[+JesandTodd]

Has this always been true for you? (Honest question, not an argument.) Obviously, as an experienced geocacher with a smartphone and the geocaching app, your dependance on the web site is greatly reduced. This topic is not about experienced geocachers however, it's about getting the new intro app user who has no experience or knowledge of the game, the experience and knowledge they need to be an asset to the community instead of a burden. Either that is going to happen by reaching out to them, them browsing the help topics on the web site, or through a more robust and interactive app that teaches them the ropes, so to speak.

 

No, of course not. I spent a considerable about of time trying like heck to figure this game out. Took me forever to figure out what the heck a pocket query was...seriously. Also, and I think I mentioned this, but I came from an anti-newbie community so nobody was willing the help me figure anything out. So learning geocaching in the beginning was very frustrating.

 

But. I bought the official app right away, not the intro one. And I really liked geocaching straight away. Not everyone is as bananas about it as we are. To some people, this is a casual hobby that they can take or leave. (Weird!)

 

If I downloaded the free app, and thought this game was kinda cool...I could see staying on the free app either ever needing to interact with the website. And when my app first started..it wasn't anywhere as sophisticated as it is now.

 

You can even ugrade to the full app, and still never interact with the website.

 

 

I think that the conversation has been quite positive and I'm not sure why an experienced smartphone user would be offended by it.

 

Tone is something difficult to express online, also, I usually post via my iphone or iPad, so I tend to keep my responses terse. In no way was I offended by any of the previous comments.

 

I was only responding to the line saying that the 'website is where the real game is played' and explaining why it isn't necessarily so.

 

FTR, I think we have come we with some great ideas for the app (and newbies in general), and only hope that GS incorporates them.

[+NeverSummer]

Has this always been true for you? (Honest question, not an argument.) Obviously, as an experienced geocacher with a smartphone and the geocaching app, your dependance on the web site is greatly reduced. This topic is not about experienced geocachers however, it's about getting the new intro app user who has no experience or knowledge of the game, the experience and knowledge they need to be an asset to the community instead of a burden. Either that is going to happen by reaching out to them, them browsing the help topics on the web site, or through a more robust and interactive app that teaches them the ropes, so to speak.

 

No, of course not. I spent a considerable about of time trying like heck to figure this game out. Took me forever to figure out what the heck a pocket query was...seriously. Also, and I think I mentioned this, but I came from an anti-newbie community so nobody was willing the help me figure anything out. So learning geocaching in the beginning was very frustrating.

 

But. I bought the official app right away, not the intro one. And I really liked geocaching straight away. Not everyone is as bananas about it as we are. To some people, this is a casual hobby that they can take or leave. (Weird!)

 

If I downloaded the free app, and thought this game was kinda cool...I could see staying on the free app either ever needing to interact with the website. And when my app first started..it wasn't anywhere as sophisticated as it is now.

 

You can even ugrade to the full app, and still never interact with the website.

 

 

I think that the conversation has been quite positive and I'm not sure why an experienced smartphone user would be offended by it.

 

Tone is something difficult to express online, also, I usually post via my iphone or iPad, so I tend to keep my responses terse. In no way was I offended by any of the previous comments.

 

I was only responding to the line saying that the 'website is where the real game is played' and explaining why it isn't necessarily so.

 

FTR, I think we have come we with some great ideas for the app (and newbies in general), and only hope that GS incorporates them.

You see, I can look at your join date, and your signature, and figure that you're a tad more familiar with the game after 4 years and use of a GPS to cache. The fact that you did, at one time, use the site to learn more about the game is important. Very important.

 

I don't go to the site that much when talking about just seeking a cache. I can load a query on my GPS, or save one to my app on my iPhone and head out without needing to check back in.

 

But, I've been stash hunting for 14 year, and on this site for 8. Up until I got a smartphone, I had to use the site every time to log my finds. Even still, I go back and edit and update logs when I get home to tell more of the story after I log a find in the field from my phone. I still use the map function to find areas to explore and load on my GPS. I still use the site to search and bookmark caches. I still use the site for the knowledge books and guidelines. I still use the site for the forums. I still use the site every time I create an event or new cache.

 

But, I can abide by the idea that an experienced cacher might not "need" the site as much anymore. Just like a teenager, we can all head out and try our own thing. But, there's still the site to support us while we experiment with other things. We need it. It is necessary. And the whole point of this thread is, as has been noted, all about NEW cachers and how the Intro App needs to address the need to get used to the game via the website. It's a very integral part of the game, and new cachers might not understand that fact.

Edited November 17, 2013 by NeverSummer

[+JesandTodd]

 

But, I can abide by the idea that an experienced cacher might not "need" the site as much anymore. Just like a teenager, we can all head out and try our own thing. But, there's still the site to support us while we experiment with other things. We need it. It is necessary. And the whole point of this thread is, as has been noted, all about NEW cachers and how the Intro App needs to address the need to get used to the game via the website. It's a very integral part of the game, and new cachers might not understand that fact.

 

Not only might they not understand it, but they might not *want* to.

 

Websites can be tedious when compared to the simplicity of apps. I find many websites of my most popular apps frustrating and annoying. And I'm far from 'young' or 'technology forward'.

 

For those interested in this as a casual hobby, you'd have to convince them to stop using this easy and free app, and enter the overwhelming and tedious GC.com. Jesus, even I have a hard time finding stuff out on there.

 

I've been following the whole thread. I know it's about newbies. I remember being new.

 

I just got this Garmin last 2 yrs ago and still don't understand how to use it completely. I don't dare update my NWTrails because I'm sure I'll delete everything, it took FOREVER for me to figure the whole darn thing out. And I've probably used it for about 150 caches.

 

To go from the simplicity and ease of the smartphone, to pocket queries, PMO caches, map sets....gpx files.....it's too much sor some.

 

If we make the game too hard to get into....they won't stay.

 

GS isn't going to want to do too much to prevent the stream (flood?) of new cachers coming in.

 

 

Btw...I think I found most of my answers to geocaching in the beginning from the forums...which I found via google. Not necessarily by GC.com.

[+JesandTodd]

 

I just got this Garmin last 2 yrs ago and still don't understand how to use it completely. I don't dare update my NWTrails because I'm sure I'll delete everything, it took FOREVER for me to figure the whole darn thing out. And I've probably used it for about 150 caches.

 

To go from the simplicity and ease of the smartphone, to pocket queries, PMO caches, map sets....gpx files.....it's too much sor some.

 

 

Just wanted to point this out. I was only able to figure out what I know about my Garmin, submitting tracks, GSAK, map sets, etc *because* of my community in which I live now. They are great! I had lot and lots and lots of help, which is why I was an early supporter of the community liaison suggestion

 

If we want these people to become long term members of our geocommunity, we can't just send them to the site and hope for the best.

[+NeverSummer]

Btw...I think I found most of my answers to geocaching in the beginning from the forums...which I found via google. Not necessarily by GC.com.

*facepalm*

 

So your answers were on the website...

 

And, I'm very glad that your community helped with how-tos. Not every community is like that, unfortunately. And, some people don't want to get involved in the community anyway.

 

Another place to look for help with how to load your NW trails would be here on the forums. Have no fear, answers can be found here.

 

"How Do I..." threads are just for that. Folks can help you learn more about your GPS and loading maps, and Garmin has a great customer service line to help you too.

 

Anyhow, back to the App and new cachers, I think that the site has improved immensely since I started lurking years and years ago. The leaps it has taken to be userfriendly since I joined the site have been amazing. I don't think this site is that scary for anyone...and the information held here is of the utmost importance for the playing of this game. The App does nothing to tell you about the rules and related processes. It just sends you out to find caches. That needs to change.

[Clan Riffster]

I think that the site has improved immensely since I started lurking years and years ago. The leaps it has taken to be userfriendly since I joined the site have been amazing. I don't think this site is that scary for anyone...and the information held here is of the utmost importance for the playing of this game. The App does nothing to tell you about the rules and related processes. It just sends you out to find caches. That needs to change.

There is so much to agree with here. You and I started playing here about the same time. Back then, there were some great local players, however, I was too introverted to reach out to them. So, my trip down the learning curve was solo. I made some blunders, and perused the forums and guidelines to avoid future flubs. The improvements over the years have been quite impressive. I still see room for improvement with creating pocket queries, as the process could be more intuitive, and the guidelines, which used to take me all of five minutes to read, have ballooned almost to the point of being intimidating.

 

JesandTod does make one good point. For a casual player, (is there really such a critter?), who only wants to hunt an occasional cache, the app may be enough, for them. If they are not interested in learning the various nuances, they probably have no need to visit the formal website. That's why I was so much in favor of tutorial pop ups in the beginner app. Those would offer at least some of the finer points, without bogging them down.

[+tozainamboku]

The App does nothing to tell you about the rules and related processes. It just sends you out to find caches. That needs to change.

I agree. How hard is it for the app to include the Geocaching 101 content. Invite the app user to view this information just as a first time user of the website is encouraged to do so. But I don't want to see the Intro App be changed into a Learn Geocaching app that forces this down your throat and prevents you from actually using the app to find geocaches.

[+JesandTodd]

 

*facepalm*

 

So your answers were on the website...

 

 

No. My answers were on forums.Groundspeak.com via google search.

Not on geocaching.com

 

Big difference.

 

Many people (esp new people) loathe forums and avoid them like the plague. It wasn't easy to find them then and it's not easy to find them now.

 

Like I said, merely directing someone to GC.com may not be enough. Especially for the newer user who doesn't want to interact off app and within a website.

 

But I don't want to see the Intro App be changed into a Learn Geocaching app that forces this down your throat and prevents you from actually using the app to find geocaches.

 

Challenges had its own app. Wherigo has it's own app. Maybe GC.com needs its own app. Not a navigation based one, just an app for the actual website, like other major websites do (FB, eBay, Amazon)

Still a watered down version of the actual website, but enough to teach the game, and get users used to the real website.

[+NeverSummer]

 

*facepalm*

 

So your answers were on the website...

 

 

No. My answers were on forums.Groundspeak.com via google search.

Not on geocaching.com

 

Big difference.

 

Many people (esp new people) loathe forums and avoid them like the plague. It wasn't easy to find them then and it's not easy to find them now.

 

Like I said, merely directing someone to GC.com may not be enough. Especially for the newer user who doesn't want to interact off app and within a website.

 

But I don't want to see the Intro App be changed into a Learn Geocaching app that forces this down your throat and prevents you from actually using the app to find geocaches.

 

Challenges had its own app. Wherigo has it's own app. Maybe GC.com needs its own app. Not a navigation based one, just an app for the actual website, like other major websites do (FB, eBay, Amazon)

Still a watered down version of the actual website, but enough to teach the game, and get users used to the real website.

Certainly we don't need to pick nits about geocaching.com forums versus the geocaching.com site. If you knew why the forums are hosted the way that they are...or why there happens to be a giant banner that says geocaching.com at the top. Ah, nevermind...

 

The website isn't optimized for viewing on a smartphone, that's for sure. Demand for a paperless caching experience led to other apps and the addition of Groundspeak's own apps. I had posted about a possible paperless option for iPod Touch before the iPhone even existed. There was a Trimble app and another that I can't recall, but "smartphones" of today weren't yet on the market. There was a boom of apps, and Groundspeak jumped on it with the iPhone, Android, and now Windows phones. I don't think there was sufficient thought about how apps would bring people to the game on its own.

 

A process that used to focus on the website suddenly had apps which could bypass the "need" to bother with the website. I don't think Groundspeak (or anyone else for that matter) thought that people would come to the game only from the app. Then it happened. The app drew in new cachers. Lots of them, possibly. Great opportunity to build the business, no?

 

The main problem is that the app doesn't provide ANY background about the game. Without background knowledge, guideline knowledge, or general use of the website, we see uninformed users and a possible problem on the horizon for the game. Without required interface with the website, new users will never get exposed to the required knowledge found on the website. One has to visit the site to learn about anything.

 

People used to have to come to the site to get their cache info, load it on their GPS unit (and/or PDA! Woah, throwback!), and then log everything back on the site at the end of the day. Streamlining came in the form of GSAK and similar programs. Some wireless networks opened the door for GPS-enabled phones to be able to find geocaches. Now smartphones are the GPS units, and they have more computing power in the palm of your hand than the entire moon landing setup at NASA in 1969. But the app still doesn't give anyone any information like what we "old timers" had to work with--which provides immense important background information for playing that game.

 

Until Groundspeak addresses that looming issue in their apps, we will keep hashing it out in the forums. But to deny that the website is the vital heart of the game is foolish.

[+Team Microdot]

But I don't want to see the Intro App be changed into a Learn Geocaching app that forces this down your throat and prevents you from actually using the app to find geocaches.

 

Why not? It's intended as an introduction after all. I'd expect some spoon-feeding if I had chosen to embark on an introduction to anything.

[+NeverSummer]

But I don't want to see the Intro App be changed into a Learn Geocaching app that forces this down your throat and prevents you from actually using the app to find geocaches.

 

Why not? It's intended as an introduction after all. I'd expect some spoon-feeding if I had chosen to embark on an introduction to anything.

And, if the app doesn't do any "training", then it will eventually fall on the shoulders of the group of volunteers to correct, inform, and generally deal with issues that arise from poor cache placements, guideline infractions, bad cache re-hiding efforts leading to muggled or damaged caches, etc etc.

 

Proactive is better than reactive, IMO.

 

If not training within the app itself, every app (official and non) should require email and account validation. And the first email the user gets should be a 101 lesson and links to the knowledge books, guidelines, and forums. (Perhaps the facebook too...but there is a much more comprehensive list of q&a here that can be searched, versus the non-searchable content on the fb page)

[+Don_J]

The App does nothing to tell you about the rules and related processes. It just sends you out to find caches. That needs to change.

 

Kind of funny how we can bounce through roughly 230 posts to come up with three sentences that explains the entire issue.

 

I think that the original idea of the smartphone app was that it would help established geocachers find geocaches. At least, that's the way that I remember it when the original Trimble app was introduced.

[+NeverSummer]

The App does nothing to tell you about the rules and related processes. It just sends you out to find caches. That needs to change.

 

Kind of funny how we can bounce through roughly 230 posts to come up with three sentences that explains the entire issue.

 

I think that the original idea of the smartphone app was that it would help established geocachers find geocaches. At least, that's the way that I remember it when the original Trimble app was introduced.

Yet, to be fair, the Intro App features list goes like this:

Features:

・ App picks three of the best nearby geocaches for beginners

・Tips and instructions guide you through finding a geocache and what to do when you do find it

・ Displays the number of geocaches within five miles

・ Easy-to-use design and interface

・ You can upgrade to Geocaching Premium from within the app to find even more geocaches

・ “Live Search” continuously updates nearby geocaches as you move

 

So there are some of our suggestions that are already part of the app:

-picks the best nearby beginner caches

-gives tips and instructions

 

But, we have touched on how the beginner caches chosen in the app should be improved upon. And, I think we can all agree that the app should have more than just simple tips for finding the cache they are seeking and talking about "what to do when you do find it".

 

Really, as those three sentences say it, the key would be to make the app (and even the full app) give you a 101 lesson.

 

To solve the "I already know what I'm doing" issue, the app can launch in the setup mode asking the user if they want to be in "beginner mode" or "standard mode". Links to knowledge books and guidelines should be built in as well.

 

I really do think a simple appetite-whetting free intro app, a 99cent skill building beginner app, and the full $9.99 app should be looked at. All of the apps should default to learning mode so that even a drop-in user who throws down 99 cents or $10 on a whim will get a lesson on how to play. Once you know what you are doing, it can be turned to "standard" mode, or users in the know can just go to settings and select standard mode.

 

The app stores are inherently "drop in" purchase locations. GPS users who happen on the game face the same learning curve, but at least they are going to have to go to the site to make an account, verify it, and then print cache pages or load them on their GPS unit. App users just get to download and run out the door without any real interaction with the written and unwritten rules of the game.

[+Team Microdot]

Can't remember if I've seen one before but this morning on a cache from my watchlist I got a I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!

 

The log is by the CO - on their own cache.

 

Looking at their previous finds they've logged finds on other caches multiple times - my guess being that they've logged from the phone and, lacking confidence that it had completed, logged again.

 

The hide is a film pot stuffed in a hedge full of thorns and the coords are well out.

 

QED?

[+Ike 13]

A thought just came to me. I've seen a lot of discussion how the young crowd would never use the site, have email, etc. and just rely upon the App. I won't disagree with that. BUT I do think that that is a very small section of the long time growth. I'm 29 I have rarely met an active cacher younger than me (I know that is skewed since smartphone apps just took off in the past 2 years). Most of my friends and younger colleagues seem interested in what I do but if they try it it's only for a short time. As I said in a past post I feel Groundspeak makes most their money from people who stick with the hobby for more tha a year actively caching, attending events, buying trackables, and paying PM for PQs. From traveling to events and megas and browsing these forums it seems the largest demographic that actively caches are middle age and retired. So I guess Groundspeak has to think about if that 18-25 demo is what they want to focus on.

 

I think improving the App should be done and there are lots of great suggestions. Educating new cachers in an easy way is something I think everyone can get behind. Many of us have expressed the wish that we had learning about this hobby easier. It's good that the LilyPad is paying attention and hopefully adds some of these features.

[+L0ne.R]

I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!

 

Is this the default message on the GC Intro app? I keep seeing it in the logs verbatim.

 

 

[+Team Microdot]

I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!

 

Is this the default message on the GC Intro app? I keep seeing it in the logs verbatim.

 

I'm assuming that it is.

 

Another thing that worries me about the idea of people jumping into the game with both feet with little to no appreciation for even the most basic rules of geocaching - and little to no traceability - the thought that leave no trace searching might well escape them and the environment suffer more as a result

[+Semper Questio]

I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!

 

Is this the default message on the GC Intro app? I keep seeing it in the logs verbatim.

 

I assume so. I see it a lot on caches in this area these days.

[+wmpastor]

I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!

 

Is this the default message on the GC Intro app? I keep seeing it in the logs verbatim.

They can change it, though. I looked at a cache listing with over 40 favorites, & the n00b finder said, "dumb-azz cache, worst I've ever seen."

 

Maybe this should be like a country club with references required....

[+wmpastor]

Can't remember if I've seen one before but this morning on a cache from my watchlist I got a I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!

 

The log is by the CO - on their own cache.

 

Looking at their previous finds they've logged finds on other caches multiple times - my guess being that they've logged from the phone and, lacking confidence that it had completed, logged again.

 

The hide is a film pot stuffed in a hedge full of thorns and the coords are well out.

 

QED?

I've seen it too - a n00b posts a find, and immediately follows up with a note or two - except that the note is a second find. So a "veteran" with 10 "finds" may only have found three caches.

[+L0ne.R]

I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!

 

Is this the default message on the GC Intro app? I keep seeing it in the logs verbatim.

 

I assume so. I see it a lot on caches in this area these days.

 

As a CO I'm a little insulted that Groundspeak yet again (they did it when the introduced the original app) diminishes the feedback aspect of the pastime. Basically, they're telling new cachers that feedback isn't important and a cut-n-paste-type of default log, one that they provide, is all that's necessary. I'm torn though...this makes me want to set all of our caches to PMO, but that will help line the pockets of a company that doesn't apparently care enough about the caches I contribute to the game. Anyone know if the intro app says anything about how important feedback is to cache owners?

 

[+BigChiefS4]

I found this geocache using the Geocaching Intro App. TFTC!

 

Is this the default message on the GC Intro app? I keep seeing it in the logs verbatim.

 

I assume so. I see it a lot on caches in this area these days.

 

Yes, it certainly appears so: linky

 

The best part is that the newbie never actually found it.

[+tozainamboku]

A process that used to focus on the website suddenly had apps which could bypass the "need" to bother with the website. I don't think Groundspeak (or anyone else for that matter) thought that people would come to the game only from the app. Then it happened. The app drew in new cachers. Lots of them, possibly. Great opportunity to build the business, no?

If Groundspeak, or anyone else for that matter, didn't think people would find the app without ever coming to the website then they didn't do their homework.

 

I believe they actually foresaw the that they could introduce Geocaching a whole new slew of people with the app; particularly with the free intro app.

 

The main problem is that the app doesn't provide ANY background about the game. Without background knowledge, guideline knowledge, or general use of the website, we see uninformed users and a possible problem on the horizon for the game. Without required interface with the website, new users will never get exposed to the required knowledge found on the website. One has to visit the site to learn about anything.

 

People used to have to come to the site to get their cache info, load it on their GPS unit (and/or PDA! Woah, throwback!), and then log everything back on the site at the end of the day. Streamlining came in the form of GSAK and similar programs. Some wireless networks opened the door for GPS-enabled phones to be able to find geocaches. Now smartphones are the GPS units, and they have more computing power in the palm of your hand than the entire moon landing setup at NASA in 1969. But the app still doesn't give anyone any information like what we "old timers" had to work with--which provides immense important background information for playing that game.

 

Until Groundspeak addresses that looming issue in their apps, we will keep hashing it out in the forums. But to deny that the website is the vital heart of the game is foolish.

While Groundspeak may have not foresaw the problems that some existing geocachers would like to blame on the intro app, I don't believe they created it to leave newbies in a vacuum. Instead they provided an app that:

・picks three of the best nearby geocaches for beginners

・provides tips and instructions to guide you through finding a geocache and what to do when you do find it

・displays the number of geocaches within five miles (to encourage users to persue geocaching further)

・Has an easy-to-use design and interface

・Allows an upgrade to Geocaching Premium from within the app to find even more geocaches

 

Certainly sounds like the idea is to get newbies geocaching quickly and have fun. Will newbies make mistakes? Sure, as most of us did when we started with the website. Can more be done? Probably. I haven't used the app, but is does seems that more information can be given out in the tips and instructions, and that the Geocaching 101 content, including videos, could be part of the app. Links to the forum and the help center might also encourage use of these resources.