Groundcache?

[BlueGoblin]

According to the rules on how to hide a cache it clearly says that its not allowed to dig down a cache as a whole or even partially and that it has to be visible from ground level.

I have found a perfect cache hide, its a concrete pipe sticking up from the ground (from a old not in use military bunker from World war 2 that is located on my property).

The pipe is sticking up aproximatly 10 cm out of the ground and is pretty deep and it has a attached easy to open lid on it, I want to attach a wire to the lid and lower the cach into the pipe and thereby into the ground for safe hiding.

Now if the lid to the pipe is clearly marked with a geocaching logo and it is sticking up 10cm from the ground so it is clearly visible from ground level.

Would that be considered a dug down cache and thereby not a allowed placement according to the guidelines, or would it be considered a cach dangling from a wire inside a pipe where the pipe is dug down into the ground and not the cache, as the cash is hanging in free air within the pipe?

And since the pipe is already there, then I will not preform any digging in order to place the cache inside the pipe that is dug down already, nor will any cache finder have to do any digging in order to get hold of the cache, all they need to do is open the lid and pull on the wire in order to get hold of the cache.

 

So in short: can a cache be hidden under the ground, aslong as no digging is involved in its placing there or to get hold of it, as in, if its placed within a pipe or simular space.

[+The Jester]

According to the rules on how to hide a cache it clearly says that its not allowed to dig down a cache as a whole or even partially and that it has to be visible from ground level.

I have found a perfect cache hide, its a concrete pipe sticking up from the ground (from a old not in use military bunker from World war 2 that is located on my property).

The pipe is sticking up aproximatly 10 cm out of the ground and is pretty deep and it has a attached easy to open lid on it, I want to attach a wire to the lid and lower the cach into the pipe and thereby into the ground for safe hiding.

Now if the lid to the pipe is clearly marked with a geocaching logo and it is sticking up 10cm from the ground so it is clearly visible from ground level.

Would that be considered a dug down cache and thereby not a allowed placement according to the guidelines, or would it be considered a cach dangling from a wire inside a pipe where the pipe is dug down into the ground and not the cache, as the cash is hanging in free air within the pipe?

And since the pipe is already there, then I will not preform any digging in order to place the cache inside the pipe that is dug down already, nor will any cache finder have to do any digging in order to get hold of the cache, all they need to do is open the lid and pull on the wire in order to get hold of the cache.

 

So in short: can a cache be hidden under the ground, aslong as no digging is involved in its placing there or to get hold of it, as in, if its placed within a pipe or simular space.

You can hide a cache like you described without 'breaking' any guidlines because you didn't dig to create the hide.

[+captnemo]

You didn't dig nor do the finders have to dig so your OK.

 

I have found many such hides but without the Geocaching logo on the cap, which isn't the cache so the cap doesn't need a label just the cache itself on the end of the wire.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

It is perfectly acceptable to hide in a pre-existing hole. Be prepared to prove it was a pre-existing hole, though.

 

As a side note -- I have not seen anything in the guidelines stating:

...that it has to be visible from ground level.

[BlueGoblin]

It is perfectly acceptable to hide in a pre-existing hole. Be prepared to prove it was a pre-existing hole, though.

 

As a side note -- I have not seen anything in the guidelines stating:

...that it has to be visible from ground level.

 

Well if its not visible from groundlevel then that means the pipe is under the ground and you will have to start digging, I was reffering to the fact that the opening is not "under" groundlevel as in that its covered with dirt. of course you can cover it up a bit with some twigs or what not, but not dirt, as then digging is involved.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Actually, that statement rules out overhead caches, laying atop a rail, shelf, in a tree crotch or some other thing and not in view. There is more context to it than underground applications.

 

There are hundreds, if not thousands of "feel only" geocaches; above, atop and within the ground, all being perfectly acceptable.

 

Just sayin'... be careful how you interpret or rephrase things.

Edited September 4, 2013 by Gitchee-Gummee

[+T.D.M.22]

Actually, that statement rules out overhead caches, laying atop a rail, shelf, in a tree crotch or some other thing and not in view. There is more context to it than underground applications.

 

There are hundreds, if not thousands of "feel only" geocaches; above, atop and within the ground, all being perfectly acceptable.

 

Just sayin'... be careful how you interpret or rephrase things.

 

Wouldn't that also rule out really well camo'd caches? Since you can't see if the cache is there...

[BlueGoblin]

Actually, that statement rules out overhead caches, laying atop a rail, shelf, in a tree crotch or some other thing and not in view. There is more context to it than underground applications.

 

There are hundreds, if not thousands of "feel only" geocaches; above, atop and within the ground, all being perfectly acceptable.

 

Just sayin'... be careful how you interpret or rephrase things.

And where did that come into the discussion as the question was about a "under ground" cache (read the top post again), where the statement "has to be visible from ground level" as in Not "below" ground level as if it was "below" ground level you would have to dig up the opening of the pipe, and then it would be a violation of the guidelines.. right?

[+cheech gang]

The guidelines state:

 

3.Geocaches are never buried, neither partially nor completely.

If one has to dig or create a hole in the ground when placing or finding a geocache, it is not allowed.

 

Please direct me to the statement that says "the cache has to be visible from ground level". I don't remember that one.

Edited September 4, 2013 by cheech gang

[Clan Riffster]

To answer your question, it is perfectly okay.

To toss in my own opinion, I think it would be way kewl to bring folks all the way into the bunker.

[+K13]

I like the idea of the hide you are proposing. Just don't be too alarmed if someone comes looking for it on your property one night.

 

I found a cache within the last couple of weeks that was not visible from above ground level. It was not buried. It required no digging to find. It fits well within the hiding guidelines.

Maybe after you get out and find more (than three) caches, you will experience how others hide caches and get some ideas of how to accomplish your hide.

[+fbingha]

(from a old not in use military bunker from World war 2 that is located on my property)

Wait .. your property. All this discussion about not creating holes should not apply. You can create all the holes and put in pipes that you want. IT IS YOUR PROPERTY.

You wouldn't ever want to bury a cache, even on your own property, but no one can tell you that you can't dig a hole to create a hide.

The regulations are there to stop people from creating holes on property that is not their own.

[+K13]

The regulations apply regardless of whose property on (in) which the cache is located. Geocaches are never buried (holes dug, etc.), even with explicit permission of the land owner..

[+fbingha]

The regulations apply regardless of whose property on (in) which the cache is located. Geocaches are never buried (holes dug, etc.), even with explicit permission of the land owner..

 

Sorry, but if I want to dig a hole to secure a post that is to hold a cache in my front yard then I can do that. It is pointless to point out the buried rule when I said one would never want to bury a cache.

Edited September 4, 2013 by fbingha

[+fbingha]

The rule states:

 

Geocaches are never buried, neither partially nor completely.If one has to dig or create a hole in the ground when placing or finding a geocache, it is not allowed.

 

The problem here is there are really two guidelines wrapped up in here.

 

1. You never bury a cache anywhere, your property or not. Of course, you could do this on your own property and not be arrested. Since it might train cachers to consider digging for other caches they can't find, it isn't allowed.

2. If one has to dig or create a hole in the ground when placing or finding a geocache, it is not allowed.

 

#1 can be verified. If finders are reporting that they are having to move dirt around or the listing says that it is under the dirt then there you go, archive it.

 

#2 can only, ever, in any way, pertain to property that is not owned by the hider. Groundspeak is completely unable to enforce this rule for the hider's own property as they have no way to know when or why a "hole" was created. How can any reviewer ever be able to differentiate the mailbox that I installed to hold a cache from the mailbox that I installed two years ago for decoration but now am repurposing for a hide. It is a wee bit silly to allude to someone that they can't break the soil on their own property to secure the structure of a cache. Digging a hole on your own property is not the same as burying a cache and so don't lump the two together.

 

All over the world are many old pipes hosting caches that are hanging from rope and chains. I have never seen a rule stating that a cache must be above ground. Being below ground is not the same as buried.

 

Again, if I want to dig a hole, put a pipe sticking out of the ground, and lower a cache into it, on my own property, then I can do that.

Edited September 4, 2013 by fbingha

[+T.D.M.22]

The regulations are there to stop people from creating holes on property that is not their own.[/font][/color]

 

Actually, that is not true. If it was only a permission issue, then this would all be covered on "Geocaches must have permission"

 

It is a viewpoint rule. You bury a cache on your property, and some newb finds it, they think it's OK to bury caches anywhere. They will copy what they see-and not always on their own proerty. Or from the view of a landowner, if I saw caches could be buried, I wouldn't allow them in the city park(for example) because I don't want people digging around the park. Also with the view that geocaches are buried, a landowner would also refuse to allow caches even if they aren't buried, because other cachers might dig to look for the cache, but not find it. So they dig another hole. And another. All the while, the cache is hanging from a tree. Then eventually, a city, or nation park, or whatever, would refuse to allow ANY geocaching, and demand current caches be removed.

[+Walts Hunting]

So if I don't dig the hole it is ok. Very Interesting. Opens up a whole new world.

[+fbingha]

The regulations are there to stop people from creating holes on property that is not their own.[/font][/color]

 

Actually, that is not true. If it was only a permission issue, then this would all be covered on "Geocaches must have permission"

 

It is a viewpoint rule. You bury a cache on your property, and some newb finds it, they think it's OK to bury caches anywhere. They will copy what they see-and not always on their own proerty. Or from the view of a landowner, if I saw caches could be buried, I wouldn't allow them in the city park(for example) because I don't want people digging around the park. Also with the view that geocaches are buried, a landowner would also refuse to allow caches even if they aren't buried, because other cachers might dig to look for the cache, but not find it. So they dig another hole. And another. All the while, the cache is hanging from a tree. Then eventually, a city, or nation park, or whatever, would refuse to allow ANY geocaching, and demand current caches be removed.

 

Sigh. That sounds a lot like what I said above about burying. Again, I am not referring to burying caches.

 

You never bury a cache anywhere, your property or not. Of course, you could do this on your own property and not be arrested. Since it might train cachers to consider digging for other caches they can't find, it isn't allowed.

 

There are millions of reasons I would dig a hole to hide a cache that doesn't involve burying it. Some are telling this person that they can't break ground on their own property, which is patently false.

 

I'm going to pour a foundation and put a fake port a potty cache on it. That's been done.

I'm going to install a fake mailbox on a post for a cache. That's been done.

.. and on and on and on ..

Edited September 4, 2013 by fbingha

[+T.D.M.22]

 

There are millions of reasons I would dig a hole to hide a cache that doesn't involve burying it. Some are telling this person that they can't break ground on their own property, which is patently false.

 

I'm going to pour a foundation and put a fake port a potty cache on it. That's been done.

I'm going to install a fake mailbox on a post for a cache. That's been done.

.. and on and on and on ..

 

Geocaches are never buried, neither partially nor completely.If one has to dig or create a hole in the ground when placing or finding a geocache, it is not allowed.

 

OK, maybe you won't bury it, but you'll still dig. Same reasons I already mentioned, just replace the word buried, with the word dig, make a hole, or whatever you feel like. By your definition, I could dig a 30 foot hole, and stick a 55 gallon drum in the ground. It's OK because there's no dirt on top. And a port-a-potty cache? Number one-I'd love to find that. Number two-how's that burying or digging? And three things-If a reviewer is unaware of a cache that breaks the guidelines, that doesn't make it OK. Groundspeak says, just because a cache has been allowed in the past doesn't mean it will be allowed in the future. And-Some caches may have been allowed, and now they wouldn't be. They remain, because they are grandfathered.

 

The bottom line is, if you have to find away around the rule, you're still breaking the rule.

Edited September 4, 2013 by T.D.M.22

[BlueGoblin]

The guidelines state:

 

3.Geocaches are never buried, neither partially nor completely.

If one has to dig or create a hole in the ground when placing or finding a geocache, it is not allowed.

 

Please direct me to the statement that says "the cache has to be visible from ground level". I don't remember that one.

..I dont think ppl are even reading the initial post before they comment here... "has to be visible from groundlevel" is NOT a guideline.. I said that because "the pipe in question" IS "visible from groundlevel" and thereby woun't encourage Anyone.. pro or noob to even consider digging for it because it IS infact fully visible from groundlevel, it is sticking up 10cm from groundlevel, and since it IS then NO digging is involved either from MY part or THE CACHE FINDER.. so NO digging will take place.. because IT IS VISIBLE FROM GROUNDLEVEL!!

No digging has even been in question on this post, this post is ALL about NOT doing any digging, and using a old concrete pipe that has been in the ground since world war 2.

[+Mn-treker]

What was that pipe for? Is it an abandoned well? You say it is pretty deep.

It sounds like a well pipe to me. If it is it was to be capped and plugged with concrette

and left capped. You need to find out. If it is a well you need to finish closing to prevent

contamination of the ground water.

[BlueGoblin]

Actually.. to spice up this thread a little bit more since everyone likes to talk about digging..

imagine this scenario.. if I would place a big container ONTOP of the ground.. and then put sand or gravel all around it so it makes a hill and that way end up "in the ground".. then I havent been doing any digging at all.. just loaded off a bunch of landfill around the cashe.. would that be allowed? as no digging as such has taken place, the ground it stands on is still untouched and its still above the original groundlevel.. on my own property of course, so got full permission from the landowner (me) to do so.

now this is a tricky one lol

[BlueGoblin]

What was that pipe for? Is it an abandoned well? You say it is pretty deep.

It sounds like a well pipe to me. If it is it was to be capped and plugged with concrette

and left capped. You need to find out. If it is a well you need to finish closing to prevent

contamination of the ground water.

its an old airshaft to second level down in the bunker and pipe is only about 20cm in diameter so cant even be mistaken for a old well

[+fbingha]

It is your property and you can do what you want on it as long as you don't bury caches. It is really that simple because it is your property.

 

By your definition, I could dig a 30 foot hole, and stick a 55 gallon drum in the ground. It's OK because there's no dirt on top.

Sure you can, on your property. Groundspeak can not forbid you from doing so and has no way to back it up if they tried to block it. There is no chain of custody to prove a new dig versus an existing dig when it applies to the hider's own property. The guideline would have to be amended to forbid all pre existing holes such that no cache could rest in or be contained within a structure that is buried in anyway. This would be a cache in a depression under a rock, a cache in an irrigation box that is buried, and so forth. I am not going to belabor the point any more. May hiders keep on doing what they have been doing for the past 13 years on their own property.

And a port-a-potty cache? Number one-I'd love to find that. Number two-how's that burying or digging?

A proper foundation often involves starting it below ground level which will require a shovel.

Edited September 4, 2013 by fbingha

[team tisri]

Actually, that statement rules out overhead caches, laying atop a rail, shelf, in a tree crotch or some other thing and not in view. There is more context to it than underground applications.

 

There are hundreds, if not thousands of "feel only" geocaches; above, atop and within the ground, all being perfectly acceptable.

 

Just sayin'... be careful how you interpret or rephrase things.

And where did that come into the discussion as the question was about a "under ground" cache (read the top post again), where the statement "has to be visible from ground level" as in Not "below" ground level as if it was "below" ground level you would have to dig up the opening of the pipe, and then it would be a violation of the guidelines.. right?

 

Underground caches exist, some of them are in caves, I found one that was hidden beside a river that ran under the road. None of them are visible from ground level - the whole point is you have to figure where they are and how to get at them.

 

Likewise if a cache is 200' up a tree you won't see it from ground level.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

The guidelines state:

 

3.Geocaches are never buried, neither partially nor completely.

If one has to dig or create a hole in the ground when placing or finding a geocache, it is not allowed.

 

Please direct me to the statement that says "the cache has to be visible from ground level". I don't remember that one.

..I dont think ppl are even reading the initial post before they comment here... "has to be visible from groundlevel" is NOT a guideline.. I said that because "the pipe in question" IS "visible from groundlevel" and thereby woun't encourage Anyone.. pro or noob to even consider digging for it because it IS infact fully visible from groundlevel, it is sticking up 10cm from groundlevel, and since it IS then NO digging is involved either from MY part or THE CACHE FINDER.. so NO digging will take place.. because IT IS VISIBLE FROM GROUNDLEVEL!!

No digging has even been in question on this post, this post is ALL about NOT doing any digging, and using a old concrete pipe that has been in the ground since world war 2.

Where did you get the notion that cachers think that some caches need to be dug up to be found? I don't care how you hide it...cachers are not going to be showing up with shovels, thinking there is a possibility that the cache is buried. The "no buried/no digging" guideline has been pretty well hammered home to geocaching.com members.

With that said, I applaude you for taking the time to ask before placing your cache.

[Luckless]

Let me see if I get this right. You want to hide a cache in a pipe which has a lid on it. The pipe goes down to an underground bunker.

I'll assume the bunker area is solid so people won't fall through or in anyway get hurt.

 

You can put a geocaching sign on the underside of the lid so people see it when they raise the lid, but not when it is closed. Be sure your cache is securely attached by something non-breakable to the pipe so it won't disappear down the pipe. Caches such as this do get broken.

[+fbingha]

You can go so far as to put a huge cache in the bunker if it is safe to visit. Do that and you will rack in the favorites.

 

This won't count as your cache being buried.

[+T.D.M.22]

It is your property and you can do what you want on it as long as you don't bury caches. It is really that simple because it is your property.

 

 

Read my posts again. It's not a property or permission issue. It's the fact that it will lead to the (mistaken)opinion that geocaches are buried, and people looking for them will come by with shovels. Read my posts again. It's not the definitions, the wording, or anything else. It all comes down to Muggles' perception of what we do. Take paintball for example-many, many paintball games are played safely and properly, in proper locations. But one person, say shooting at a friends face who doesn't have a mask on(and ends up losing an eye), or one person shooting at a passing car(breaking a window or headlight, or damaginf a paintjob) makes the sport and paintballers in general look bad. No-one cares if it happened on the street, in the mall, or in my back yard.

 

By not allowing buried geocaches, they are preventing negative opinions from forming in the first place. Groundspeak won't have to do damage control if there is no damage to control in the first place.

Edited September 4, 2013 by T.D.M.22

[+fbingha]

I really think there is a disconnect between what I post and what you see.

 

You continue on about burying and shovels when I am talking about installing in ground boxes and securing posts with concrete on one's own property.

[+T.D.M.22]

 

Where did you get the notion that cachers think that some caches need to be dug up to be found?

With that said, I applaude you for taking the time to ask before placing your cache.

 

Probably from fbingha saying you can do what you want on your property. This is why this rule extends to your own property. People will get this idea somehow...

[+fbingha]

Dude, read the part you quoted last from me. Specifically the part about not burying caches. Then read the other posts I made, excluding the burying of caches.

 

My first five posts say DON'T BURY CACHES.

Edited September 5, 2013 by fbingha

[BlueGoblin]

Let me see if I get this right. You want to hide a cache in a pipe which has a lid on it. The pipe goes down to an underground bunker.

I'll assume the bunker area is solid so people won't fall through or in anyway get hurt.

 

You can put a geocaching sign on the underside of the lid so people see it when they raise the lid, but not when it is closed. Be sure your cache is securely attached by something non-breakable to the pipe so it won't disappear down the pipe. Caches such as this do get broken.

this is a 2 story commandpost bunker.. I would assume you can blast off a nuclear charge next to it without it even getting a scratch, walls are like more than a yard thick armored concrete, and since its on my property then I now own it and use it as a storage facility, so if the cache would in some way brake I can easely go down to second floor and retrive it and get it repaired since I got the keys to enter the bunker, and it got a 2,5 inch thick steelplate door so you would need a very large blowtorch and a lot of time to penetrate that door, so only way anyone could get hurt in the area is if they cant find the cache and smack their head against the bunker wall or sommint lol

[+T.D.M.22]

I really think there is a disconnect between what I post and what you see.

 

You continue on about burying and shovels when I am talking about installing in ground boxes and securing posts with concrete on one's own property.

 

And you have to dig to do that. The guidelines say no digging. Not, you're allowed to dig on your own property. You seem to think because it's your property you can do as you want-which you can. But you could also rig up a booby trap to get any cachers-but by your view it's OK because its on your property. It comes down to how you see the rules. I see the specific words, and the reason behind the rule. There's nothing stopping you from, say putting up some bollards on your property and making one of them hollow in the top so you can put a cache in it(since they serve as more than a geocache), but to put one bollard up just for a geocache would be against the guidelines.

 

Dude, read the part you quoted last from me. Specifically the part about not burying caches. Then read the other posts I made, excluding the burying of caches.

 

My first five posts say DON'T BURY CACHES. I really do bow out of this now.

 

Yet you talk about things that require digging. Which is part of the dame guideline. It's not that its buried, or you had to dig. It's public perception that they are buried.

Edited September 5, 2013 by T.D.M.22

[+fbingha]

Booby traps and hurting people would be illegal now wouldn't they? Digging in your yard isn't.

 

Someone needs to report this cache since the property owner did just what I said, they dug a hole in their yard to place a post. I don't know if that post was there previous to the cache hide or not. That exactly illustrates why there is no teeth to digging in one's yard.

 

http://forums.Ground...0

Edited September 5, 2013 by fbingha

[+cheech gang]

Mr Goblin, You came here asking if it was within the guidelines to do what you proposed. Now that it has become clearer as to what you proposed, the answer is a definite yes. You weren't proposing digging so go for it.

 

You were given this answer in post #2.

Edited September 5, 2013 by cheech gang

[+Mn-treker]

As far as the rules go if you have to dig to hide you can not hide.

If the hole already exists then the hide is good.

You hide is in a pipe in the ground, good to go. Do it!

[+SirDonB]

So then let me ask this... I purchase a tract of land, I decide to build some building and other structures on my property. Now to properly build, I have to break ground to do so. Now if in the process of building on my property I decide to modify the plans of one or more of the structures to allow me to hide a cache container of any size in or on that structure, this would become a violation of the rules because I broke ground to build the structure that's primary purpose was for something other than geocaching?

 

If I am understanding this thread correctly then any hiding spot that originally required that structure, say like a guardrail, to exist would not be a legal hiding spot as per the rules? For that matter, some parks have to break ground to plant that tree you are hiding your cache in, so it should be illegal per the rules to hide a cache in the tree?

 

I understand the heart of the rule, you are not permitted to hide a cache if you have to dig to hide it or for any part of the cache to be buried. There are some reasonable exceptions to this for example, the root you want to hide your container under is a hair to shallow for it, so you scrape out just enough to make room for the container. You have technically broke ground, but you did not dig a hole nor did you bury the cache, so should it be allowed?? I say yes, but if someone interprets the rule differently than the answer could be no.

 

As to BlueGoblin, I think that your particular situation you have asked about would be allowed as you are not breaking the rules since the pipe already exists, it is on your property, and the finder will not be required to dig or move any amount of earth to find it.

 

As to everyone who reads my post, yes I know that my view may be on the extreme side to some, but I had to go there to make a point... That point is that unless you are digging or covering with earth to hide the cache container itself it should not be considered against the rules if someone with permission wants to make an over the top camouflage for the container, as long as the container itself follows the rules.

[4wheelin_fool]

Previously they allowed some leeway with explicit permission and partially buried caches. Lately it has been tightened up, as even fake sprinkler heads are frowned upon. If it is your own property, it still may be acceptable. There was a cache of the month recently featured which used a partially buried post...

 

At first it was defined as being under ground, then it was changed to using a pointy object such as a shovel or trowel, now it is buried, period. If it is on your own property, you might say it was preexisting before the idea came to you.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

It is your property and you can do what you want on it as long as you don't bury caches. It is really that simple because it is your property.

 

Of course you can. That does not mean, however, that reviewer will publish a listing for it. The guideline states "caches are never buried" and if the reviewer chooses not to publish a cache that is buried, even if it's on the cache owners property, the only thing you could do is try to appeal the decision with Groundspeak and I suspect that they'll support the reviewers decision.

 

 

[+T.D.M.22]

So then let me ask this... I purchase a tract of land, I decide to build some building and other structures on my property. Now to properly build, I have to break ground to do so. Now if in the process of building on my property I decide to modify the plans of one or more of the structures to allow me to hide a cache container of any size in or on that structure, this would become a violation of the rules because I broke ground to build the structure that's primary purpose was for something other than geocaching?

 

If I am understanding this thread correctly then any hiding spot that originally required that structure, say like a guardrail, to exist would not be a legal hiding spot as per the rules? For that matter, some parks have to break ground to plant that tree you are hiding your cache in, so it should be illegal per the rules to hide a cache in the tree?

 

The rules say

...to hide or find a geocache

 

Since you would be putting up a house, or guardrail anyway, it would be allowed. As for the tree in a park, or guardrail, you didn't break the ground-the city did. You cannot do this for the sole purpose of placing a geocache.

 

If you dig a hole, and put a wood post in it, and put a cache on top of the post(say a fake birdhouse) then it was placed just for a geocache. If you put in a new mailbox, and say, drilled a small amount of wood out and stuck a bison tube in it, and put a plus in to camo it, then it would be allowed.

 

If you decide to remove the cache, your house, mailbox, guardrail is still there and still functional. If you remove the fake birdhouse, there is still a wood post there, or a hole where it used to be. Sure, you could fill it back in, but you removed everything to remove the cache.

[+T.D.M.22]

Previously they allowed some leeway with explicit permission and partially buried caches. Lately it has been tightened up, as even fake sprinkler heads are frowned upon. If it is your own property, it still may be acceptable. There was a cache of the month recently featured which used a partially buried post...

 

At first it was defined as being under ground, then it was changed to using a pointy object such as a shovel or trowel, now it is buried, period. If it is on your own property, you might say it was preexisting before the idea came to you.

 

Nope. It also include

having to dig

 

Which I believe take away a lot of the loopholes(such as "It's not completely covered up by the earth, so it's not buried") So all these questions asking "Is this buried?" can be answered that they aren't, and still be against the guideline.

[+Don_J]

I really think there is a disconnect between what I post and what you see.

 

You continue on about burying and shovels when I am talking about installing in ground boxes and securing posts with concrete on one's own property.

 

I think you're both arguing the same point and neither of you realize it.

[+Don_J]

So then let me ask this... I purchase a tract of land, I decide to build some building and other structures on my property. Now to properly build, I have to break ground to do so. Now if in the process of building on my property I decide to modify the plans of one or more of the structures to allow me to hide a cache container of any size in or on that structure, this would become a violation of the rules because I broke ground to build the structure that's primary purpose was for something other than geocaching?

 

 

I think that T.D.M.22's contention is that if your sole purpose of building a house on your land was to hide a geocache in it, it would be against the guidelines because other people would copy it and try to build a house in the middle of their neighborhood park, and that would reflect badly on geocaching.

[+T.D.M.22]

So then let me ask this... I purchase a tract of land, I decide to build some building and other structures on my property. Now to properly build, I have to break ground to do so. Now if in the process of building on my property I decide to modify the plans of one or more of the structures to allow me to hide a cache container of any size in or on that structure, this would become a violation of the rules because I broke ground to build the structure that's primary purpose was for something other than geocaching?

 

 

I think that T.D.M.22's contention is that if your sole purpose of building a house on your land was to hide a geocache in it, it would be against the guidelines because other people would copy it and try to build a house in the middle of their neighborhood park, and that would reflect badly on geocaching.

 

Yup. Although if you can build a whole house in a public park before it gets noticed, all the power to you.

[+kunarion]

if you can build a whole house in a public park before it gets noticed, all the power to you.

 

Here's mine. The container's a lock-n-lock stuck to the utility box on the wall to the right. Don't tell the park rangers I built a house on that tent pad.