cache down a pipe: OK or not?

[+Otter Folly]

Greetings all, I am looking for feedback on an idea for a cache hiding spot:

 

I was walking around the area where I am considering putting my first cache and found something interesting; a large rusty pipe imbedded vertically in the ground. It is about 8 inches in diameter and goes down about six feet before ending in sand. About two feet of it is sticking up from ground level. It is not part of anything; this is on an isolated beach and the nearest building is several hundred yards away. It seemed that it might be a fun place to hide a geocache, but the only way to get a cache out from the bottom of it would be if the cache was on a string. Or, I thought, if the cache container was metal, or had metal plates glued to it, a magnet on a string could be used to fish it out! Maybe the hide could be in two parts, one to find the pipe and one to find the magnet-on-string which would be hidden nearby? Does this sound like a cool idea or does this violate some taboo of cache construction? I await your wisdom eagerly!!

[+Mcpat12]

As long as this cache has some kind of permission if this is not on your own property. Also a cache can't be buried I say if you need to use a sharp tool to move dirt to remove the cache. Your idea sopunds like it would be fine. I would contact your local reviewer. You could ask cachers to bring a AA battery to the cache to retrieve it. You would have a motor on the top. That motor could pull a bison tube or a small lock n lock out of the pipe. Hope this helps- Mcpat12

[+wmpastor]

The idea probably avoids the no-buried-caches rule & no-piercing-the-ground-rule because the pipe is pre-existing. The heavyweights will weigh in on that point.

 

Technical points: (1) is pipe steel? (magnet will need to be on a stick, not a string) (2) does pipe fill up with water when it rains?

[+Otter Folly]

Thanks! It's a public beach, but one of those ones which only can really be accessed by water

[+Mcpat12]

Is this beach subject to flooding?

[+Otter Folly]

This beach isn't subject to flooding unless there's a tsunami. It's just the edges of a large shallow bay which does fill with water (about 2-5 feet deep) when the tide comes in. Pipe is probably steel, I thought maybe the magnet would be OK if dropped straight down since the pipe is wide. It would be a little challenging (and I'll certainly make sure I can do it repeatedly before I go with this) Pipe has sand at bottom so it shouldn't fill with water, but I'll take a couple of jugs back out there and check.

 

I certainly don't -have- to go with the pipe, there's tons of driftwood and wonderful old weathered stumps to use for a traditional ULP or something, but I saw this pipe and was intrigued...

[+wmpastor]

Thanks! It's a public beach, but one of those ones which only can really be accessed by water

Has potential - but d/t is going to be high.

 

Also, will people be tempted to take a shortcut over private property? This could create bad "PR" for caching.

[+Mcpat12]

I would find some more caches at least 20 until you place one but if you think you know what you are doing go right ahead. I would try to put the magnet down before you bring the container there. I have checked places that I think would be good for a cache before the container is made up. So I can build the container around that area.

[+briansnat]

As long as the cache complies with the other guidelines there is no taboo regarding a cache in an existing pipe. Some people here brought up possible stumbling blocks, but if they are not an issue then go for it. I think the most problematic one might be the magnet on a string in a steel pipe. A magnet strong enough to lift a cache will probably get stuck on the sides. How about a cache in a mesh bag and hide a container with fishing line and a large treble hook (with the sharp ends clipped off or filed down)?

[+BAMBOOZLE]

The pipe sounds good and there are a number of ways to hide one....magnets, hangers, etc.

You could also do a " hydro cache".....using a cordless drill, drill a 1/4" hole about an inch or two from the bottom of the pipe and drop a watertight float-able container down in to the pipe. Finders will need to hold their finger on the hole and pour water into the pipe until the cache floats up. Putting a cap or something to cover the top of the pipe will keep trash from getting in. I've retrieved these also with a long stick and chewing gum.

[+Harry Dolphin]

The pipe sounds good and there are a number of ways to hide one....magnets, hangers, etc.

You could also do a " hydro cache".....using a cordless drill, drill a 1/4" hole about an inch or two from the bottom of the pipe and drop a watertight float-able container down in to the pipe. Finders will need to hold their finger on the hole and pour water into the pipe until the cache floats up. Putting a cap or something to cover the top of the pipe will keep trash from getting in. I've retrieved these also with a long stick and chewing gum.

 

Drilling a hole in a pipe violates the guidelines.

[+niraD]

As others have pointed out, there is no guideline against below-grade caches, or against caches in pipes. There is a guideline against digging or creating a hole, either to hide the cache or to find the cache. And of course, there are all the other guidelines (permission, maintenance, no solicitation, no defacement, etc.).

 

I think the most problematic one might be the magnet on a string in a steel pipe. A magnet strong enough to lift a cache will probably get stuck on the sides.

FWIW, an approach I've seen used to avoid this problem is to use a non-magnetic spacer to keep the magnet away from the steel pipe. This can either be a spacer attached to the magnet, or it can be a thick non-magnetic liner inside the pipe.

[+kunarion]

I saw this pipe and was intrigued...

Drop a small object on a string, and test it. Make it kinda like what you'll do with a Geocache. See if you get garbage or water or sand or a dead crab or something. If the cache is to last 10 years, a test object should endure for at least a couple of months.

[+TeamRabbitRun]

Great idea for a cache - the 'field puzzle' would be how to get it the heck out of there.

 

But, consider the fact that if you hide your 'retrieval tool' in another location as you discussed in your original post, it won't be long before somebody neglects to return it to its hiding spot in this multi's first stage.

 

Regarding the 'hydro-cache' idea, the pipe is buried to a depth of about six feet. Even if you use a nifty eight-foot-long right-angle bit, it'd be hard to hold your finger over the hole whilst filling it with water.

 

Put a hook on an eight-foot cable (not a rope), attached to the inside-top of the pipe and left dangling inside? The trick would be to snag it, like a carnival game!

[+Anansi Joy]

Great idea for a cache - the 'field puzzle' would be how to get it the heck out of there.

 

But, consider the fact that if you hide your 'retrieval tool' in another location as you discussed in your original post, it won't be long before somebody neglects to return it to its hiding spot in this multi's first stage.

 

Regarding the 'hydro-cache' idea, the pipe is buried to a depth of about six feet. Even if you use a nifty eight-foot-long right-angle bit, it'd be hard to hold your finger over the hole whilst filling it with water.

 

Put a hook on an eight-foot cable (not a rope), attached to the inside-top of the pipe and left dangling inside? The trick would be to snag it, like a carnival game!

 

Maybe part 1 of the hide could contain a note letting you know what kind of tool you might need to grab the cache at part 2?

[+TeamRabbitRun]

Great idea for a cache - the 'field puzzle' would be how to get it the heck out of there.

 

But, consider the fact that if you hide your 'retrieval tool' in another location as you discussed in your original post, it won't be long before somebody neglects to return it to its hiding spot in this multi's first stage.

 

Regarding the 'hydro-cache' idea, the pipe is buried to a depth of about six feet. Even if you use a nifty eight-foot-long right-angle bit, it'd be hard to hold your finger over the hole whilst filling it with water.

 

Put a hook on an eight-foot cable (not a rope), attached to the inside-top of the pipe and left dangling inside? The trick would be to snag it, like a carnival game!

 

Maybe part 1 of the hide could contain a note letting you know what kind of tool you might need to grab the cache at part 2?

 

Well, I'd hate to get to the first stage of a multicache that tells me to go away and get more tools. I might not come back!

[+kunarion]

I'd hate to get to the first stage of a multicache that tells me to go away and get more tools. I might not come back!

You should hang around for a few minutes. Some of us may already be coming back with the tools.

[+coman123]

Put the magnet on the cache, and a chunk of metal on the string , this way the magnet will not stick to the side while fishing

[+Mcpat12]

I say motorized fishing line with a magnet that can be mounted to the pipe and be used to pull the cache back up. Motor with fishing line and magnet could be in a ammo can in an area near the pipe. This ammo can would have a lock combo with the combination on the cache page.

[+TriciaG]

Spam post reported.

 

In our area there's a series of 5 caches. The "main" cache needs a specialized tool to retrieve the cache. 3 other caches give you instructions on WHAT you need for the specialized tool; the 5th gives you instructions on how to assemble the tool. You could try something like that, perhaps.

 

http://coord.info/GC2ZJJY

 

EDIT TO ADD: The nice thing about this is you can log each find (except the last one) separately, as it's not a multicache.

Edited July 24, 2013 by TriciaG

[7rxc]

Returning to the OP for a sec. One thing to consider is WHERE on the beach this pipe is. You say it goes down about 4 feet (based on 6 - 2 above roughly). You might want to visit there on a high, high tide, as water might come in if it is close to the water table, where it might not normally. Sand in the bottom is no guarantee about being water tight, since water passes through sand quite easily and dries out just as quickly. If that is a piece of wreckage, it might be closed or open, and you won't have anyway to tell. Add that seawater is in play, and you can have issues with corrosion if metal is used for the container. If there is ever water in there, there is the possibility of lateral flow (sideways) as well, depending on what and how the pipe is connected, that is it could move out of sight to the side. Always think about how you might recover it regardless of how you execute the plan.

 

Hope this is useful thinking, good luck with the project.

 

Doug 7rxc

[7rxc]

Dang double!

 

Doug 7rxc

Edited July 24, 2013 by 7rxc

[+kunarion]

Returning to the OP for a sec. One thing to consider is WHERE on the beach this pipe is. You say it goes down about 4 feet (based on 6 - 2 above roughly). You might want to visit there on a high, high tide, as water might come in if it is close to the water table, where it might not normally. Sand in the bottom is no guarantee about being water tight, since water passes through sand quite easily and dries out just as quickly. If that is a piece of wreckage, it might be closed or open, and you won't have anyway to tell. Add that seawater is in play, and you can have issues with corrosion if metal is used for the container. If there is ever water in there, there is the possibility of lateral flow (sideways) as well, depending on what and how the pipe is connected, that is it could move out of sight to the side. Always think about how you might recover it regardless of how you execute the plan.

 

Hope this is useful thinking, good luck with the project.

 

Doug 7rxc

It may be some authority's test well. They drop by on a schedule and check for gasses or chemical seeps. So next time they visit, they'll clean it out and put a better cap on it. I like my idea of dropping a cache-sized test item in there, and checking on it, just to see if it endures for a couple of months, but nobody seems to like my idea .

 

If I place a cache where there's a low pipe with an open top, I'd place some kind of cap on it that appears secure. Or make it look like it's full of sand or whatever. So it doesn't accumulate trash and crabs.

Edited July 24, 2013 by kunarion

[+Otter Folly]

I do think the idea of putting something as a 'test' down there for a month or so is a good idea, and I'll do that. That'll also give me time to find more caches of my own and up my 'street cred'

 

Thanks for all the help guys!

[7rxc]

 

It may be some authority's test well. They drop by on a schedule and check for gasses or chemical seeps. So next time they visit, they'll clean it out and put a better cap on it. I like my idea of dropping a cache-sized test item in there, and checking on it, just to see if it endures for a couple of months, but nobody seems to like my idea .

 

If I place a cache where there's a low pipe with an open top, I'd place some kind of cap on it that appears secure. Or make it look like it's full of sand or whatever. So it doesn't accumulate trash and crabs.

 

I do like that Idea... just offered a few other possibilities to check out. That pipe could be just about anything, from a piece of wreckage debris to your test well. Those aren't so common on beachs in my experience, but I can see that possibility. Wreckage on beaches is quite common from old wrecks, even whole ships, not to mention floating docks from Japan recently. It simply demands some due diligence, which I see the OP acknowledges positively.

 

Doug 7rxc

[Ranger Fox]

I came across a cache in a pipe like that. The first stage had a Lock'N'Lock with a bunch of Macgyver stuff in there. The pipe was metal, so dropping a magnet on a string wouldn't work. What you had to figure out was to remove the plug inserted on the underside of the Lock'N'Lock container and use it as sort of a diving bell for your magnet on a string so the magnet wouldn't catch on the pipe. The container's bottom fit snugly over the cache, which had a metal plate attached to its top.

 

I've only seen that setup one time. I mention it just to give you another idea.

[+kunarion]

Wreckage on beaches is quite common from old wrecks, even whole ships, not to mention floating docks from Japan recently. It simply demands some due diligence, which I see the OP acknowledges positively.

The object might be part of a larger thing, shipwreck or something. That would be worth some research. It adds a cool story to the cache.

[+Otter Folly]

Well it's on... dropped a container with a couple rocks and a note saying 'reward if found' and my #. That's a weird feeling, isn't it? buying something and prepping it and then... throwing it down a hole and walking away. I'll check it again in a couple of week and then again after a few more weeks if it's ok so far, and then consider submitting it if all goes well (once adding proper contents of course)

 

I looked around a bit more and I think the pipe is part of a retaining wall; I found several others in a line with that one, with the remains of big logs 'behind' them. Most of the others were not as deep; one had a hornet nest down it, and one did end in water, and a couple were blocked with pieces of driftwood or rocks.

 

I dropped a small lock n lock wrapped in a tangled scarf thing that was easy to catch with a hook.... but first I dropped a foam float I found, figured if it does start to fill with water, that will float and push the cache container up With float in place and container down, I can just reach the top of the container with my arm all the way down the pipe and a 2.5 foot stick in my hand so that could be another way to get at it.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

This beach isn't subject to flooding unless there's a tsunami. It's just the edges of a large shallow bay which does fill with water (about 2-5 feet deep) when the tide comes in. Pipe is probably steel, I thought maybe the magnet would be OK if dropped straight down since the pipe is wide. It would be a little challenging (and I'll certainly make sure I can do it repeatedly before I go with this) Pipe has sand at bottom so it shouldn't fill with water, but I'll take a couple of jugs back out there and check.

 

I certainly don't -have- to go with the pipe, there's tons of driftwood and wonderful old weathered stumps to use for a traditional ULP or something, but I saw this pipe and was intrigued...

 

I'd consider using the pipe instead of driftwood. Driftwood got there because it drifted there on a high tide, and will just as easily drift away the next time there is a tide that high.

 

It sounds like a good location for a cache and finders will appreciate that you took the time to assess the viability of the hide location to ensure that it can stay active. My first cache was in a pipe and I soon found the my first attempt at a container wasn't robust enough. I replaced it with something better and it lasted 5 years before reconstruction of the area eliminated the hide location.

 

 

[+Otter Folly]

Here is a picture of the pipe and the container. As you can see the container just barely fits down the pipe; not sure if that's a bug or a feature. To the top right of the picture you can see the float I found. Not shown is the thing I wrapped it in which is one of those shaggy stretchy scarves. The container ... meh. I am looking for something more narrow and sturdy and tubular... maybe some kind of converted bottle? I'll keep looking.

 

I tried to take a picture of the cache down in the pipe but it was too dark and I didn't want to risk dropping my smartphone down there

[+kunarion]

Here is a picture of the pipe and the container. As you can see the container just barely fits down the pipe; not sure if that's a bug or a feature. To the top right of the picture you can see the float I found. Not shown is the thing I wrapped it in which is one of those shaggy stretchy scarves. The container ... meh. I am looking for something more narrow and sturdy and tubular... maybe some kind of converted bottle? I'll keep looking.

 

I tried to take a picture of the cache down in the pipe but it was too dark and I didn't want to risk dropping my smartphone down there

A piece of driftwood specially cut as a cap for that pipe would be quite evil.

 

Or a "tree trunk" (plug that stands vertical). Or a live "beach plant"...

Edited July 25, 2013 by kunarion

[7rxc]

If you haven't, this might be a good time to create a Cache Page, and or check the coordinates with your reviewer.

Would hate to LOSE the site to someone else, or find out that there is a 'final' somewhere in the area. I assume that you checked for 'visible' caches nearby already.

 

Even an unpublished Cache can 'claim' a spot, the reviewer can see those even before submitting for review.

 

After you have done your personal local checks you can request a proximity check one of several ways, email, PM or by submitting for review, but making it clear that that is what you want information wise in a Reviewer Note.

 

Would be a shame to lose a good site or waste time on one that is blocked without knowing.

 

Doug 7rxc