Religious tolerance cache- your thoughts?

[DannyCaffeine]

I want to make a puzzle cache that you have to solve the puzzle by learning about different world religions. I wanted to do this to teach tolerance and respect for other people's personal beliefs. In no way would this cache promote any particular faith.

 

Would this be with the rules of geocaching? Also how do you feel about seeking a cache like this?

[+wimseyguy]

If it's carefully worded and is using lessons about different religions as a purely educational exercise, it should be OK.

If you are trying to teach tolerance and respect, it would fail the agenda guideline.

 

Cache listings perceived to be posted for religious, political, charitable or social agendas are not permitted. Geocaching is intended to be an enjoyable, family-friendly hobby, not a platform for an agenda.

Edited June 10, 2013 by wimseyguy

[+macatac1961]

It may not promote any particular religion but it is still an agenda.

[AZcachemeister]

I would probably enjoy a cache where I could learn more about world mythologies...both existent and ancient.

 

If you are going to 'instruct' or 'encourage' cachers to be more tolerant of other's mythologies then you will fail the agenda test.

[nonaeroterraqueous]

It's way too serious a subject for geocaching. Can we just keep it fun?

[+BlueDeuce]

I want to make a puzzle cache that you have to solve the puzzle by learning about different world religions.

 

Just leave it at that. Offer no opinion and your cache should meet the guidelines.

[+JL_HSTRE]

I want to make a puzzle cache that you have to solve the puzzle by learning about different world religions.

 

This is fine. You might even turn it into a series, with each puzzle about a different religion.

 

I wanted to do this to teach tolerance and respect for other people's personal beliefs.

 

Better not mention that on the cache page because it is an agenda. You may require a cacher to educate themselves (i.e. learn new information) as part of solving a puzzle that may educate the cacher, but agendas are not allowed regardless of how good you think the agenda is.

 

Also how do you feel about seeking a cache like this?

 

I'm fine with it. I've done puzzle caches on all sorts of subjects and solving methods, some of which I didn't really care much about but which I enjoyed the learning experience.

 

Some might say it is too serious a subject, but given the variety of puzzle solving methods needed out there I'd say cachers who solve puzzles are already more inclined toward serious subjects.

[+The_Incredibles_]

I would be interested in such a cache. It's a fascinating subject.

 

I think it would be OK, depending on how you worded things. You definitely wouldn't want to put anything on the cache page about how you hope this puzzle cache will make people more tolerant. That would look like an agenda.

[+ByronForestPreserve]

I would be wary of what someone's Google Search might turn up in the course of solving the puzzle. I'd suggest having someone beta test it and see how the search goes. It's unfortunate, but some of the links they explore while looking for answers might take them to sites that are anything but tolerant.

[+larryc43230]

I would be wary of what someone's Google Search might turn up in the course of solving the puzzle. I'd suggest having someone beta test it and see how the search goes. It's unfortunate, but some of the links they explore while looking for answers might take them to sites that are anything but tolerant.

Whenever anyone does a Google search on any subject, you are likely to get a crazy mix of useful and useless, and biased and unbiased, results. I can't imagine how that could be the responsibility of the cache owner. This is true whether you're trying to solve a puzzle on a cache page or trying to find a recipe for Mexican latkes.

 

I'm not at all religious, but I'm fascinated by religion and spirituality. I wouldn't be offended by a puzzle cache dealing with this subject, and I would probably enjoy tackling such a puzzle. As others have pointed out, you'll need to be careful not to even hint at an agenda or bias for or against any subject you cover.

 

--Larry

[+va griz]

My best guess, and it's just a guess, is that you can do it if you lay it out so the finder needs to look up information to get the coordinates. The fact that they learn by doing that is coincidental, and whether or not they conclude that tolerance is good is up to them. If you say on the cache page that you are trying to teach tolerance then you are spelling out your agenda.

 

By the way, I found a cache that required you to look up facts in bible verses to get the coordinates. I thought it was well done.

[+larryc43230]

By the way, I found a cache that required you to look up facts in bible verses to get the coordinates. I thought it was well done.

There are several caches of this type, that require looking up bible verses, in my area, too. I see no problem with that approach, any more than requiring someone to find information about characters in Jane Eyre.

 

--Larry

[+ras_oscar]

If I were attempting such a Puzzle, I'd probably focus on the fact based issues of the religion, rather than the philosophy. For instance, I'd say "what year was Mohammad born", not "what was Mohammad's opinion on the rights of women"

[+ByronForestPreserve]

I would be wary of what someone's Google Search might turn up in the course of solving the puzzle. I'd suggest having someone beta test it and see how the search goes. It's unfortunate, but some of the links they explore while looking for answers might take them to sites that are anything but tolerant.

Whenever anyone does a Google search on any subject, you are likely to get a crazy mix of useful and useless, and biased and unbiased, results. I can't imagine how that could be the responsibility of the cache owner. This is true whether you're trying to solve a puzzle on a cache page or trying to find a recipe for Mexican latkes.

 

I'm not at all religious, but I'm fascinated by religion and spirituality. I wouldn't be offended by a puzzle cache dealing with this subject, and I would probably enjoy tackling such a puzzle. As others have pointed out, you'll need to be careful not to even hint at an agenda or bias for or against any subject you cover.

 

--Larry

 

Absolutely not the responsibility of the owner. But if his goal is to promote tolerance, and folks who search for answers to the puzzle commonly end up at intolerant or even hateful sites, the whole point is lost. The CO will know the answers to the puzzle; I was suggesting he see what someone else finds when they search.

[+K13]

Look at this .... Coexist Series It is a bookmark list of a geo-art in Florida.

Each of the cache pages start like this....

Welcome to the Coexist Series Power Trail. This series is for educational and historical purposes only, to teach you about various mythological Deities and symbology across the globe.

[+Roman!]

Geocaching and god do not mix, by geocaching you are getting exercise thus delaying your trip to the pearly gates and a meeting with god. Puzzle caches, however, promote sitting on your butt in front of a computer for hours on end assuring an early trip to the grave so they may be religion friendly.

Edited June 11, 2013 by Roman!

[+redsox_mark]

As others have said you can do it, just need to be especially careful not to appear as having an agenda. With a "sensitive" topic like religion (or politics), I believe the agenda part will get a closer look then with a less controversial topic.

 

There are lots of caches where people "promote" something they like; e.g. their favourite rock band. They can say how great they think that band is and why... and probably it will pass the agenda test (I've seen many like this). Though if they start encouraging readers to buy their albums that probably crosses the line.

 

With religion, if you start saying your favourite religion is X and why it's great then it will likely NOT pass the agenda test.

 

I.e. I believe the agenda test is a combination of the topic itself and the words used to describe it.

[+larryc43230]

I was suggesting he see what someone else finds when they search.

There's nothing wrong with trying out this sort of search in advance, but everybody knows (or should know) what the cache owner will find: a mix of unbiased, helpful sites and biased, not-so-helpful sites. This applies to religion, politics, and, these days, even the Boy Scouts.

 

I'm just wondering what exactly the cache owner can do about it. Place a large-print, black-label warning on the cache page about the dangers of the InterWebs? Point the cacher to specific Web sites that have been vetted to be safe (good luck with that)? Give up on the idea and create a puzzle based on species of butterflies?

 

--Larry

[+emmett]

.

 

There is a difference between tolerance of another's right to a particular religion and tolerance towards all religions. The former is fine, the later is more like politically correct foolishness. For example, Christians believe Jesus is God, Islamists do not. They cannot both be right. At least one is wrong or, perhaps, both are wrong. In fact, most beliefs are mutually exclusive - if one is true, the others must be false. So if I have examined the claims and have strong conviction in my faith, why would I be tolerant of a faith perspective that is leading people astray, or consider the other religions to be equally valid? In as much as the fate of our souls is at stake here, scrutiny trumps tolerance when it comes to religion. With this in mind, I don't see the value of a cache that basically says one belief is just as good as the other.

 

.

[+Colonial Cats]

No matter how careful and considerate you are, you will end up P_____g someone off. Good intensions but I would stay away from it.

[+thetoxiczone]

Religions are best avoided, just like politics, and a puzzle on religions is not likely to change anybodies view although it might teach them some thing they did not know but you would need to be sure on your facts. For example my understanding is in Christianity Jesus was the son of God, in Islam he was just a messenger of God, and Jewish he was not either, and atheists think they are all deluded, a different view than another poster so who is right. None of them will see eye to eye, and that is with three religions the have the same root and technically the same God, Christianity has a number of versions with different views. If you add Buddhism, Hindu to name a few others there is even Scientology, and then do you start to include religions that are considered cults.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Not sure that I see the difference between religious tolerance and religious intolerance. I am glad that you glory in 'this', but prohibit 'that' which many other religions permit. If it makes you happy, go for it.

I would put the series on 'Ignore'. For example: The Shakers banned sex. That gave them some extra time for many creative inventions. But, ah, a religion that only survives on adoption and conversion will not last long. I'm surprised that it lasted over a hundred years.

How does one glorify the tolerances, whilst ignoring the intolerances?

[+funkymunkyzone]

Whenever anyone does a Google search on any subject, you are likely to get a crazy mix of useful and useless, and biased and unbiased, results, and porn.

 

There, I fixed that for ya :)

Edited June 12, 2013 by funkymunkyzone

[+funkymunkyzone]

As a staunch atheist myself, I can't see why a puzzle cache/series based on facts about religions is any different than a puzzle cache/series based on facts about history, geography, maths or any sciences. It's just subject matter from which one is somehow supposed to glean some coordinates in order to find a plastic box under a bush.

[+Don_J]

Geocaching and god do not mix, by geocaching you are getting exercise thus delaying your trip to the pearly gates and a meeting with god. Puzzle caches, however, promote sitting on your butt in front of a computer for hours on end assuring an early trip to the grave so they may be religion friendly.

 

Come on now. This is already being being discussed in at least two threads.

 

The question was if this would be an acceptable puzzle cache, not if puzzle caches themselves are acceptable as a whole. Try to be constructive for a change.

[+Don_J]

I was suggesting he see what someone else finds when they search.

There's nothing wrong with trying out this sort of search in advance, but everybody knows (or should know) what the cache owner will find: a mix of unbiased, helpful sites and biased, not-so-helpful sites. This applies to religion, politics, and, these days, even the Boy Scouts.

 

I'm just wondering what exactly the cache owner can do about it. Place a large-print, black-label warning on the cache page about the dangers of the InterWebs? Point the cacher to specific Web sites that have been vetted to be safe (good luck with that)? Give up on the idea and create a puzzle based on species of butterflies?

 

--Larry

 

You can't win with this one. I typed "I hate butterflies" into Google and got 9.8 million hits. Who knew that butterflies were that controversial.

[+ByronForestPreserve]

I was suggesting he see what someone else finds when they search.

There's nothing wrong with trying out this sort of search in advance, but everybody knows (or should know) what the cache owner will find: a mix of unbiased, helpful sites and biased, not-so-helpful sites. This applies to religion, politics, and, these days, even the Boy Scouts.

 

I'm just wondering what exactly the cache owner can do about it. Place a large-print, black-label warning on the cache page about the dangers of the InterWebs? Point the cacher to specific Web sites that have been vetted to be safe (good luck with that)? Give up on the idea and create a puzzle based on species of butterflies?

 

--Larry

 

You can't win with this one. I typed "I hate butterflies" into Google and got 9.8 million hits. Who knew that butterflies were that controversial.

 

Huh. Who knew?

 

I dunno, it might be that certain topics tend to create search results that are scholarly, while others produce a list with views that are very intolerant. I think the puzzle creator would have to be careful to nudge it one way or the other, or at least check what kinds of things a likely search will bring up. Like I said, it would spoil the purpose to end up sending folks to a bunch of anti-this-and-that sites by asking questions about a bit of info that turns out to be a hot button for some groups.

[+funkymunkyzone]

I've found plenty of puzzle caches that required one to reverse look up passages from the bible. I'd have no problem with doing a puzzle involving the Quran, teachings of Buddha, whatever.

[+Roman!]

Hide a cache in heaven and the puzzle will be out of the thousands of religion options you'd have to choose the right one, it could be a 5/5.

 

You can then hide one in he11 and the puzzle would be choosing any of the wrong ones, you can rate his one a 1/1.

[+The_Incredibles_]

Geocaching in Hell: Nano in the forest with bad coords and lots of mosquitoes

[+larryc43230]

Whenever anyone does a Google search on any subject, you are likely to get a crazy mix of useful and useless, and biased and unbiased, results, and porn.

There, I fixed that for ya :)

As the young Dr. Frankenstein stated, that goes without saying.

 

--Larry