FTF Hound Disregard Cache Listing

[+Don_J]

Would we even be having this discussion if FTF wasn't involved? What would you think about the 14th finder parking illegally for this one?

 

If there was a trend that those looking for the cache parked illegally, I'd probably archive the cache. If I felt that others in the local community had no qualms about breaking laws in order to be FTF I'd stop placing any caches. The way I see it, every time a LEO encounters someone breaking the law (even if it's as simple as illegal parking) it has the potential to put the game of geocaching in jeopardy. I'm not going to risk that happening just so someone can do a happy dance.

 

This is what i think about when i hear about or see people breaking the rules and/or the law (no matter how small) when geocaching. Of course the park superintendent or LEO may not even know that the person is geocaching but if they do, then it can, and has, caused repercussions for our hobby.

 

If the FTF parked illegally because it was easier to get to the cache you can bet many others will too so he should be regarded as a hero for exposing the bad placement of the cache and saving Geocaching and the cache should be archived.

 

Why does the location necessarily have to be bad? I have a cache that is 600' away from a busy interstate. To reach it, you need to hike four miles up an abandoned forest road. Or you can be lazy, risk your life and that of others, arrest and impounding of your vehicle and simply park on the interstate. The warnings and the proper route to the cache are clearly detailed in my cache description.

 

What bothers me is that we have a local that constantly places caches right next to "No Parking" signs, says on the cache page that parking is okay and uses the "Park and Grab" attribute. I stopped looking for them, but when I did, I simply parked a half block away on the nearest side street and used my legs to get me there.

 

In this case, the CO clearly warned about the parking situation and had the courtesy to explain where legal parking was. They did their part.

[+Roman!]

Would we even be having this discussion if FTF wasn't involved? What would you think about the 14th finder parking illegally for this one?

 

If there was a trend that those looking for the cache parked illegally, I'd probably archive the cache. If I felt that others in the local community had no qualms about breaking laws in order to be FTF I'd stop placing any caches. The way I see it, every time a LEO encounters someone breaking the law (even if it's as simple as illegal parking) it has the potential to put the game of geocaching in jeopardy. I'm not going to risk that happening just so someone can do a happy dance.

 

This is what i think about when i hear about or see people breaking the rules and/or the law (no matter how small) when geocaching. Of course the park superintendent or LEO may not even know that the person is geocaching but if they do, then it can, and has, caused repercussions for our hobby.

 

If the FTF parked illegally because it was easier to get to the cache you can bet many others will too so he should be regarded as a hero for exposing the bad placement of the cache and saving Geocaching and the cache should be archived.

 

Why does the location necessarily have to be bad? I have a cache that is 600' away from a busy interstate. To reach it, you need to hike four miles up an abandoned forest road. Or you can be lazy, risk your life and that of others, arrest and impounding of your vehicle and simply park on the interstate. The warnings and the proper route to the cache are clearly detailed in my cache description.

 

What bothers me is that we have a local that constantly places caches right next to "No Parking" signs, says on the cache page that parking is okay and uses the "Park and Grab" attribute. I stopped looking for them, but when I did, I simply parked a half block away on the nearest side street and used my legs to get me there.

 

In this case, the CO clearly warned about the parking situation and had the courtesy to explain where legal parking was. They did their part.

 

My post was a tongue-in-cheek response to a thread with a title I disagree with. I guarantee others will park illegally to grab the cache but the CO/OP wants to punish the FTF.

[+Don_J]

Thanks for the advice.

It does bother me a little...

 

Here is another question about this FTF hound...

 

He has over 1000 finds, hidden 1, adopted 2 and has over 240 FTF's...

 

The thing that bothers us in the Community on the Trail is that out of the Trail he has gotten 40+ FTF's on it and not a decent log on any of them, nor has he placed any that others can claim FTF on him.

 

We have a trail here that is called the Chuck Co NYTPT Trail.. There is a total of 99.. Out of the last ones since the last challenge he was first on traidtionals and skips over the others.

 

One time he walked past a cache that was already taken FTF on at the PARKING LOT(He already filled his calendar days) and walked the .10 of mile for the other one..

 

I guess its his gas..

Oh well thanks for the vent.

 

A couple of things. Some people will only look for certain types of caches, unless they have the opportunity to get a FTF. If the cache doesn't appeal to them otherwise, they may just walk past it to get to one that does. Not everyone feels that the have to find every cache.

 

As far as placing caches to pay back for the ones that you have found. It is a really bad idea. Looking at your profile, you have been a cache owner long enough and hidden enough to know that while being a cache owner can be very rewarding, it can also be a major pain in the butt. Asking someone to hide a cache when they know that they are really not up to the task of following through with all that it takes to own a cache, isn't fair to anyone. In fact, it is why Groundspeak discourages caches that ask the finders to place caches after finding them.

[+Don_J]

Would we even be having this discussion if FTF wasn't involved? What would you think about the 14th finder parking illegally for this one?

 

If there was a trend that those looking for the cache parked illegally, I'd probably archive the cache. If I felt that others in the local community had no qualms about breaking laws in order to be FTF I'd stop placing any caches. The way I see it, every time a LEO encounters someone breaking the law (even if it's as simple as illegal parking) it has the potential to put the game of geocaching in jeopardy. I'm not going to risk that happening just so someone can do a happy dance.

 

This is what i think about when i hear about or see people breaking the rules and/or the law (no matter how small) when geocaching. Of course the park superintendent or LEO may not even know that the person is geocaching but if they do, then it can, and has, caused repercussions for our hobby.

 

If the FTF parked illegally because it was easier to get to the cache you can bet many others will too so he should be regarded as a hero for exposing the bad placement of the cache and saving Geocaching and the cache should be archived.

 

Why does the location necessarily have to be bad? I have a cache that is 600' away from a busy interstate. To reach it, you need to hike four miles up an abandoned forest road. Or you can be lazy, risk your life and that of others, arrest and impounding of your vehicle and simply park on the interstate. The warnings and the proper route to the cache are clearly detailed in my cache description.

 

What bothers me is that we have a local that constantly places caches right next to "No Parking" signs, says on the cache page that parking is okay and uses the "Park and Grab" attribute. I stopped looking for them, but when I did, I simply parked a half block away on the nearest side street and used my legs to get me there.

 

In this case, the CO clearly warned about the parking situation and had the courtesy to explain where legal parking was. They did their part.

 

My post was a tongue-in-cheek response to a thread with a title I disagree with. I guarantee others will park illegally to grab the cache but the CO/OP wants to punish the FTF.

 

Disagree with the title? It seems that the FTF did just that. Note that it does not say "hounds" with a plural, which would indicate all hounds do this. Personally, if I'm going after a FTF, I read everything the CO has to offer. It may give me an advantage.

[+The_Incredibles_]

 

The thing that bothers us in the Community on the Trail is that out of the Trail he has gotten 40+ FTF's on it and not a decent log on any of them, nor has he placed any that others can claim FTF on him.

 

Some people are too self-centered and lazy to give back to their community. Not much you can do about it. There are people like this everywhere, not just in geocaching.

[+Mudfrog]

Thanks for the advice.

It does bother me a little...

 

Here is another question about this FTF hound...

 

He has over 1000 finds, hidden 1, adopted 2 and has over 240 FTF's...

 

The thing that bothers us in the Community on the Trail is that out of the Trail he has gotten 40+ FTF's on it and not a decent log on any of them, nor has he placed any that others can claim FTF on him.

 

We have a trail here that is called the Chuck Co NYTPT Trail.. There is a total of 99.. Out of the last ones since the last challenge he was first on traidtionals and skips over the others.

 

One time he walked past a cache that was already taken FTF on at the PARKING LOT(He already filled his calendar days) and walked the .10 of mile for the other one..

 

I guess its his gas..

Oh well thanks for the vent.

 

I agree with you that i do like to see decent logs. Otherwise, and on everything else you mentioned, i don't see anything wrong with how that cacher is caching. He knows what he wants and goes for it...

[+WarNinjas]

I agree he was FTF and that's how he plays the game. No big deal at all. We placed a cache and many take the chance to park illegally to grab it. That is there deal. You are the CO and if the other cacher feels he was really the FTF it legally then let him log the find as FTF legally. We are layed back CO's. Two FTFs on it. Probably will make the other cacher mad if he notices but who really cares the FTF game is not really a part of the real geocaching game just something members can put on there page if they want to. So he was the actual FTF and the other guy/girl was the FTF following the directions of how the cache should be found. Just a thought to make all involved happy and not get into a argument with a cacher who actually signed the log first. You are the only one who can delete a log or say if someone claims a FTF wrong on your cache. In this situation I would just let them both have it and I'm sure all will be happy and you can go on to find more caches and make more cool hides. Nothing to stress over this is supposed to be fun!

-WarNinjas

[+Roman!]

I agree he was FTF and that's how he plays the game. No big deal at all. We placed a cache and many take the chance to park illegally to grab it. That is there deal. You are the CO and if the other cacher feels he was really the FTF it legally then let him log the find as FTF legally. We are layed back CO's. Two FTFs on it. Probably will make the other cacher mad if he notices but who really cares the FTF game is not really a part of the real geocaching game just something members can put on there page if they want to. So he was the actual FTF and the other guy/girl was the FTF following the directions of how the cache should be found. Just a thought to make all involved happy and not get into a argument with a cacher who actually signed the log first. You are the only one who can delete a log or say if someone claims a FTF wrong on your cache. In this situation I would just let them both have it and I'm sure all will be happy and you can go on to find more caches and make more cool hides. Nothing to stress over this is supposed to be fun!

-WarNinjas

 

What's so hard about understanding first to find? It's not ftfwplonbaolorwgttc. (first to find while parking legally or not breaking any other laws or rules while getting to the cache)

 

I'd bet everything I own that the 2TF on their way to the cache at some point exceeded the speed limit, did not competely stop at a sign and probably broke a bunch of other rules or laws.

 

There is no question who was FTF.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Roman!

[+bflentje]

 

If you exit your car, you are parked. It's really that simple.

 

Probably the Parking/No Parking regulations differ by state and municipality.

 

Or maybe I have just been lucky.

 

Or perhaps driving an obvious service vehicle made the police not stop and ticket me? (Yep, seen them just go around without a glance my way.)

Around here, the landscapers can block entire lanes with impunity anytime they need/want to.

 

We're not parking it. We're abandoning it.

[+CanadianRockies]

I agree he was FTF and that's how he plays the game. No big deal at all. We placed a cache and many take the chance to park illegally to grab it. That is there deal. You are the CO and if the other cacher feels he was really the FTF it legally then let him log the find as FTF legally. We are layed back CO's. Two FTFs on it. Probably will make the other cacher mad if he notices but who really cares the FTF game is not really a part of the real geocaching game just something members can put on there page if they want to. So he was the actual FTF and the other guy/girl was the FTF following the directions of how the cache should be found. Just a thought to make all involved happy and not get into a argument with a cacher who actually signed the log first. You are the only one who can delete a log or say if someone claims a FTF wrong on your cache. In this situation I would just let them both have it and I'm sure all will be happy and you can go on to find more caches and make more cool hides. Nothing to stress over this is supposed to be fun!

-WarNinjas

What's so hard about understanding first to find? It's not ftfwplonbaolorwgttc. (first to find while parking legally or not breaking any other laws or rules while getting to the cache)

 

I'd bet everything I own that the 2TF on their way to the cache at some point exceeded the speed limit, did not competely stop at a sign and probably broke a bunch of other rules or laws.

 

There is no question who was FTF.

Read WarNinjas' post again. They're not disagreeing with you. They're not equating ftfwplonbaolorwgttc with FTF. They're just saying there can be lots of different ways to be the first person to find something in a particular fashion. First to find while hopping on one leg. First 12-year-old to find the cache. First to find between 2:17 a.m. and 2:18 a.m. Etc.

[+bflentje]

Thanks for the advice.

It does bother me a little...

 

Here is another question about this FTF hound...

 

He has over 1000 finds, hidden 1, adopted 2 and has over 240 FTF's...

 

The thing that bothers us in the Community on the Trail is that out of the Trail he has gotten 40+ FTF's on it and not a decent log on any of them, nor has he placed any that others can claim FTF on him.

 

We have a trail here that is called the Chuck Co NYTPT Trail.. There is a total of 99.. Out of the last ones since the last challenge he was first on traidtionals and skips over the others.

 

One time he walked past a cache that was already taken FTF on at the PARKING LOT(He already filled his calendar days) and walked the .10 of mile for the other one..

 

I guess its his gas..

Oh well thanks for the vent.

 

Holy moly..

[+Great Scott!]

I "claim" this one a lot: FTSTLWRI! (First To Sign The Log With Red Ink!) I have 4287 FTSTLWRIs.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Great Scott!

[+coupleocachers]

This guy is so warped in the FTF that he complained once because the FTF on cache didn't log they found it nonlinear and he couldn't read the handwriting and cussed out the owner even when the owner was present when the FTF found it....

[+coupleocachers]

It was the same cache and same type of container...

 

Thanks for the advice.

It does bother me a little...

 

Here is another question about this FTF hound...

 

He has over 1000 finds, hidden 1, adopted 2 and has over 240 FTF's...

 

The thing that bothers us in the Community on the Trail is that out of the Trail he has gotten 40+ FTF's on it and not a decent log on any of them, nor has he placed any that others can claim FTF on him.

 

We have a trail here that is called the Chuck Co NYTPT Trail.. There is a total of 99.. Out of the last ones since the last challenge he was first on traidtionals and skips over the others.

 

One time he walked past a cache that was already taken FTF on at the PARKING LOT(He already filled his calendar days) and walked the .10 of mile for the other one..

 

I guess its his gas..

Oh well thanks for the vent.

 

A couple of things. Some people will only look for certain types of caches, unless they have the opportunity to get a FTF. If the cache doesn't appeal to them otherwise, they may just walk past it to get to one that does. Not everyone feels that the have to find every cache.

 

As far as placing caches to pay back for the ones that you have found. It is a really bad idea. Looking at your profile, you have been a cache owner long enough and hidden enough to know that while being a cache owner can be very rewarding, it can also be a major pain in the butt. Asking someone to hide a cache when they know that they are really not up to the task of following through with all that it takes to own a cache, isn't fair to anyone. In fact, it is why Groundspeak discourages caches that ask the finders to place caches after finding them.

[+the4dirtydogs]

This guy is so warped in the FTF that he complained once because the FTF on cache didn't log they found it nonlinear and he couldn't read the handwriting and cussed out the owner even when the owner was present when the FTF found it....

The only person thats warped around here is you . I can't believe the big deal you are making about this poor cacher. You can't control the way a cacher is going to grab your caches. I think it's more that you don't like this cacher. I let him know about this thread so lets see if he chimes in.

[4wheelin_fool]

Perhaps the FTFer could be disqualified if they are found to be taking steroids?

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Perhaps the FTFer could be disqualified if they are found to be taking steroids?

 

Or at the very least, banned from the FTF hall of fame.

[+NeverSummer]

Thanks for the advice.

It does bother me a little...

 

Here is another question about this FTF hound...

 

He has over 1000 finds, hidden 1, adopted 2 and has over 240 FTF's...

 

The thing that bothers us in the Community on the Trail is that out of the Trail he has gotten 40+ FTF's on it and not a decent log on any of them, nor has he placed any that others can claim FTF on him.

 

We have a trail here that is called the Chuck Co NYTPT Trail.. There is a total of 99.. Out of the last ones since the last challenge he was first on traidtionals and skips over the others.

 

Holy moly..

This just tells me that there are too many people in the "community" that put far too much weight on the activity of racing for a first-to-find. Sounds to me that the "bother" you all apparently feel is only fueling your bother, and the "hound's" actions.

 

Take a few weeks and let it go. If you're not having fun, you're not playing the game right.

[+Redfist]

There is altogether too much drama around FTF which isn't even an official part of the game.

 

Drama drama drama...

[+Don_J]

It was the same cache and same type of container...

But one of them had a FTF opportunity, so he found it. My point was that he may just walk past an identical cache because he doesn't prefer to find them, unless he can be FTF.

 

Thanks for the advice.

It does bother me a little...

 

Here is another question about this FTF hound...

 

He has over 1000 finds, hidden 1, adopted 2 and has over 240 FTF's...

 

The thing that bothers us in the Community on the Trail is that out of the Trail he has gotten 40+ FTF's on it and not a decent log on any of them, nor has he placed any that others can claim FTF on him.

 

We have a trail here that is called the Chuck Co NYTPT Trail.. There is a total of 99.. Out of the last ones since the last challenge he was first on traidtionals and skips over the others.

 

One time he walked past a cache that was already taken FTF on at the PARKING LOT(He already filled his calendar days) and walked the .10 of mile for the other one..

 

I guess its his gas..

Oh well thanks for the vent.

 

A couple of things. Some people will only look for certain types of caches, unless they have the opportunity to get a FTF. If the cache doesn't appeal to them otherwise, they may just walk past it to get to one that does. Not everyone feels that the have to find every cache.

 

As far as placing caches to pay back for the ones that you have found. It is a really bad idea. Looking at your profile, you have been a cache owner long enough and hidden enough to know that while being a cache owner can be very rewarding, it can also be a major pain in the butt. Asking someone to hide a cache when they know that they are really not up to the task of following through with all that it takes to own a cache, isn't fair to anyone. In fact, it is why Groundspeak discourages caches that ask the finders to place caches after finding them.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Don_J

[+StarBrand]

This guy is so warped in the FTF that he complained once because the FTF on cache didn't log they found it nonlinear and he couldn't read the handwriting and cussed out the owner even when the owner was present when the FTF found it....

I may get shot for once again saying this but....

 

FTF and 2 quarters will buy you a can of soda from the machine over on Main Street. Come to think of it, just the 2 quarters work equally well.

 

Getting upset at somebody getting upset over FTF is just putting too much value on the FTF side game.

[+the4dirtydogs]

Well after I emailed the cacher in question he sent me his phone number to give him a call. We chatted for about 25 mins or so and laughed at the thread. So I doubt he will chime in because he really doesn't care. Kinda glad this came up because when he comes out to So Cal we might go see the Lakers play and do a little caching. Seems like a really nice guy to me. I think the OP is taking the FTF game WAY to serious.

 

Time to lock this thread and call it a day.

[+Ambrosia]

<snip>

 

I'd bet everything I own that the 2TF on their way to the cache at some point exceeded the speed limit, did not competely stop at a sign and probably broke a bunch of other rules or laws.

 

<snip>

Well, you have a pretty low opinion of humanity to make that kind of bet. Maybe I'm just naive. But I wouldn't break traffic laws just to get a ftf.

[+Roman!]

<snip>

 

I'd bet everything I own that the 2TF on their way to the cache at some point exceeded the speed limit, did not competely stop at a sign and probably broke a bunch of other rules or laws.

 

<snip>

Well, you have a pretty low opinion of humanity to make that kind of bet. Maybe I'm just naive. But I wouldn't break traffic laws just to get a ftf.

 

Not at all, I'd bet you break traffic laws every time you drive be it 1 MPH over the speed limit, not completely stopping at a stop sign, there's so many opportunities and if you don't then you are one in a billion.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Roman!

[+Ambrosia]

<snip>

 

I'd bet everything I own that the 2TF on their way to the cache at some point exceeded the speed limit, did not competely stop at a sign and probably broke a bunch of other rules or laws.

 

<snip>

Well, you have a pretty low opinion of humanity to make that kind of bet. Maybe I'm just naive. But I wouldn't break traffic laws just to get a ftf.

 

Not at all, I'd bet you break traffic laws every time you drive be it 1 MPH over the speed limit, not completely stopping at a stop sign, there's so many opportunities and if you don't then you are one in a billion.

I AM one in a billion. It's called OCD. It drives my family nuts, but probably not more nuts than I am.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Ambrosia

[+Don_J]

<snip>

 

I'd bet everything I own that the 2TF on their way to the cache at some point exceeded the speed limit, did not competely stop at a sign and probably broke a bunch of other rules or laws.

 

<snip>

Well, you have a pretty low opinion of humanity to make that kind of bet. Maybe I'm just naive. But I wouldn't break traffic laws just to get a ftf.

 

Not at all, I'd bet you break traffic laws every time you drive be it 1 MPH over the speed limit, not completely stopping at a stop sign, there's so many opportunities and if you don't then you are one in a billion.

 

I drive at a reasonable speed which at times may be a bit over the limit, however, I always come to a complete stop when it is required. 32 Years and over 3 million miles without a ticket. I'm certainly not going to break that streak for a FTF.

[+bflentje]

I've got three speeding tickets. But not a single one on the way to one of my 150+ First To Finds.

[+Crow-T-Robot]

I may get shot for once again saying this but....

 

FTF and 2 quarters will buy you a can of soda from the machine over on Main Street. Come to think of it, just the 2 quarters work equally well.

 

 

I'm trying to be FTF on that machine that sells sody pop for $.50!

[AZcachemeister]

 

I AM one in a billion. It's called OCD. It drives my family nuts, but probably not more nuts than I am.

 

Even so, I'd bet Officer Friendly could point out ten or twelve things you did wrong on your drive to work this morning.

 

I'm no angel either.

[+Off Grid]

Would we even be having this discussion if FTF wasn't involved? What would you think about the 14th finder parking illegally for this one?

 

If there was a trend that those looking for the cache parked illegally, I'd probably archive the cache. If I felt that others in the local community had no qualms about breaking laws in order to be FTF I'd stop placing any caches. The way I see it, every time a LEO encounters someone breaking the law (even if it's as simple as illegal parking) it has the potential to put the game of geocaching in jeopardy. I'm not going to risk that happening just so someone can do a happy dance.

 

This is what i think about when i hear about or see people breaking the rules and/or the law (no matter how small) when geocaching. Of course the park superintendent or LEO may not even know that the person is geocaching but if they do, then it can, and has, caused repercussions for our hobby.

 

If the FTF parked illegally because it was easier to get to the cache you can bet many others will too so he should be regarded as a hero for exposing the bad placement of the cache and saving Geocaching and the cache should be archived.

 

Troll alert!

 

Bad placement? Are you kidding me. It's not the cache owners fault that there are some that seek their caches that think getting that FTF or an easy find is more important that obeying the law.

[4wheelin_fool]

Would we even be having this discussion if FTF wasn't involved? What would you think about the 14th finder parking illegally for this one?

 

If there was a trend that those looking for the cache parked illegally, I'd probably archive the cache. If I felt that others in the local community had no qualms about breaking laws in order to be FTF I'd stop placing any caches. The way I see it, every time a LEO encounters someone breaking the law (even if it's as simple as illegal parking) it has the potential to put the game of geocaching in jeopardy. I'm not going to risk that happening just so someone can do a happy dance.

 

This is what i think about when i hear about or see people breaking the rules and/or the law (no matter how small) when geocaching. Of course the park superintendent or LEO may not even know that the person is geocaching but if they do, then it can, and has, caused repercussions for our hobby.

 

If the FTF parked illegally because it was easier to get to the cache you can bet many others will too so he should be regarded as a hero for exposing the bad placement of the cache and saving Geocaching and the cache should be archived.

 

Troll alert!

 

Bad placement? Are you kidding me. It's not the cache owners fault that there are some that seek their caches that think getting that FTF or an easy find is more important that obeying the law.

 

Putting words in someone else's mouth?

 

That's not what was written originally.

[+TerraViators]

Perhaps the FTFer could be disqualified if they are found to be taking steroids?

7 Tours de France and 2 quarters will buy you a soda pop.

[Zerpersande]

In one of our caches that was published a few days ago.

Well in the listing it says DO NOT PARK NEAR GZ or WILL BE TICKETED.. There is listed coords on the cache page on where to park. A second cache parked at the listed coords and started walking towards the cache, then noticed that the FTF hound was parked on the side of the road and was signing the cache and then left before the second cacher arrived at ground zero.

So who is actually hte First to Find on this cache?

The persno who disregarded the rules or the person who actually walked to the cache?

We've been debating about emailing the FTFer and telling him he doesn't get FTF because he parked ILLEGALLY for the cache. He has done this for the past few caches on the trail. Its a bike trail only. and parked on the side of the road.

What do you think should be done?

This kind of question is one of those that make me wonder why people ask. Why does it matter? If it does, who signed it first? Your note said a car would be ticketed, not that ad CO you wouldn't allow the find.. And can you even say that.

 

Its a game guys. Quit being so anal about such stuff.