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Tides and Cache Placement


PeakFault
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I guess I am after fellow cachers thoughts and advice on something.

 

I know of a great location to place a cache. The only concern I have is that it's a location that isn't accessible all day as the tides cut the area off at certain times of the day.

 

Also, if you were to get cut off by the tide there is no "escape route" up a cliff or suchlike. If the tide cut you off you would be in trouble.

 

I'm in two minds as to whether to place it or not. Personally I would always be very careful around tides, I am well educated about the dangers of the sea. However I also know that some people aren't so careful or simply are unaware of how fast the sea moves in.

 

Is the fact I have doubts a good sign not to place this cache? Or should I place it and make it clear on the cache description you must check the tides?

 

What are people's thoughts on the matter?

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I've done several tidal caches (Scilly, Jersey, Guernsey, Shetland, Orkney, etc) and even set one and would personally say, go for it. Add a link to your cache page giving tide info, make the warnings clear and include a 'not 24/7' 'may require wading' 'may require swimming'(!) attribute and you've given potential finders all the info they need to make an informed choice.

 

Edit: Doing The Pelistry Toll with Bambography, we were cut off before we started, but took our boots off and went for it! On and off in less than ten mins but it was pocket-deep for the wade back :rolleyes:

 

b02c8701-abf5-40f0-b924-1035505b58f5.jpg

Edited by Simply Paul
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Up to you!

 

High D rating, say why in the cache description.

 

 

Not necessarily saying I disagree with you..... but why would you put a high difficulty rating on it? Because it's tidal?

If the situation's explained, it's not by itself any more difficult than a cache in a park with restricted opening hours, is it?

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Up to you!

 

High D rating, say why in the cache description.

 

 

Not necessarily saying I disagree with you..... but why would you put a high difficulty rating on it? Because it's tidal?

If the situation's explained, it's not by itself any more difficult than a cache in a park with restricted opening hours, is it?

 

Higher rather than High.

Could take longer to find/more than one visit... IF you pick the wrong time to visit!

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Thanks for the comments.

 

I must admit I really want to place it as I feel it will be a worthwhile cache to go to.

 

I guess I was just after a second opinion on the matter.

 

I'll make it blatantly obvious on the cache description about the tides etc and add the attributes too as suggested above.

 

Cheers.

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Thanks for the comments.

 

I must admit I really want to place it as I feel it will be a worthwhile cache to go to.

 

I guess I was just after a second opinion on the matter.

 

I'll make it blatantly obvious on the cache description about the tides etc and add the attributes too as suggested above.

 

Cheers.

 

I would suggest putting the word TIDAL in the name of the cache as a flag to those paperless cachers who do not always read the cache pages

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Would misjudging the tides mean certain DEATH or would it just mean being stranded for a few hours until the sea goes out again?

 

If the latter, then it's not a problem

 

If then former then you would want to make it VERY clear about the risks

 

 

Mark

 

Yeah its definitely the former.

 

If the tide cuts you off you'd be in big big trouble.

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Would misjudging the tides mean certain DEATH or would it just mean being stranded for a few hours until the sea goes out again?

 

If the latter, then it's not a problem

 

If then former then you would want to make it VERY clear about the risks

 

 

Mark

 

Yeah its definitely the former.

 

If the tide cuts you off you'd be in big big trouble.

 

When the tide is out, it there any danger of getting stuck in silt/mud or quicksand, and warnings not to go on the beach? Is there time to get off the beach once you see the tide coming in, or do you need to know the time to allow yourself to get to safety, and be able to calculate that in relation to the tide times? Some beaches are so flat or funnel shaped that if you were out at the water line when the tide turns, you can't outrun the tide coming in and could drown. (I'd rule out Morecambe Bay, for this reason).

 

I know of a few coastal areas like this, and to me it would be too great a risk to place a cache in any of these locations, but I am of a cautious nature when it comes to risking people's lives for a game like this. That said, I regard 5/5 caches as generally out of my league unless it's an area I know something about, or have access to the relevant experts and equipment in the area. I do think it would make geocaching boring if there were no caving/diving/rock climbing/boating caches, and for many people that's what geocaching is mostly about, and what makes it most interesting. It comes down to your local knowledge and accepting there will be some people who will try to do the cache by picking up a phone and heading for the coordinates if they can. Your cache might be the first one they attempt. What can you do to keep them safe?

 

If you were to go ahead with it, I'd hope you would make it a 4/4 - 5/5 puzzle cache with the puzzle involving research into the local tides - number of deaths in certain years/newspaper reports of fatalities/rescues/ etc. to get the coords! Cachers who know the lay of the land would rattle through any puzzle you set but for the uninitiated, it could be enough for them to arrive properly prepared. Also, a way to get people to look up the tide times and the coastguard's number to call in case something goes wrong. Check with the the local coastguard and RNLI, as they might have some good advice too. You would also need to be prepared to keep an eye on the changes in tides and weather and disable the cache if it's going to be too dangerous to attempt a find. what are you going to do about people who have downloaded the cache page onto their GPS already?

 

There was a cache off somewhere near St Ives, Cornwall (can't find it now, maybe it got archived...) which warns of being cut off by the tide - would be worth taking a look at how similar caches are set up and discussing with the COs (and any others with similar caches) about the best wording and layout. Maybe suggest cachers have to collect some specialist equipment from somewhere first, or call you to let you know they're attempting the cache?

Edited by Fianccetto
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Yes I would set the cache but as someone else has suggested, I would make it a Puzzle. Even if it's a very simple puzzle, at least you have mitigated the risk of someone just clicking "find next" without reading the cache description and all its warnings. I'm a believer of Caveat Finder, and found a really good tidal Traditional the other day after quite a bit of preparation, but a Puzzle may ease your concerns a little (since Finders will have to at least read the cache page).

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Certainly include the min time required before the tide causes a problem. I nearly got caught out with a tidal cache series. Walking along a beach 4 hours before high tide we came across a fallen tree that prevented us continuing, so turned back and had to wade around other trees we had passed only minutes before. So even with some basic knowledge of high tide times we could have been cut off some 4 hours before the high tide in that spot.

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Would misjudging the tides mean certain DEATH or would it just mean being stranded for a few hours until the sea goes out again?

 

If the latter, then it's not a problem

 

If then former then you would want to make it VERY clear about the risks

 

 

Mark

 

Yeah its definitely the former.

 

If the tide cuts you off you'd be in big big trouble.

 

When the tide is out, it there any danger of getting stuck in silt/mud or quicksand, and warnings not to go on the beach? Is there time to get off the beach once you see the tide coming in, or do you need to know the time to allow yourself to get to safety, and be able to calculate that in relation to the tide times? Some beaches are so flat or funnel shaped that if you were out at the water line when the tide turns, you can't outrun the tide coming in and could drown. (I'd rule out Morecambe Bay, for this reason).

 

I know of a few coastal areas like this, and to me it would be too great a risk to place a cache in any of these locations, but I am of a cautious nature when it comes to risking people's lives for a game like this. If you were to go ahead with it, I'd hope you would make it a 4/4 - 5/5 puzzle cache with the puzzle involving research into the local tides

 

No there is no danger of getting stuck in silt/mud etc. The walk to the cache when the tide is out is in front of a sheer cliff face hence if you were caught out you'd have nowhere to escape to. It's not a Morecambe Bay type situation though.

 

It's hard to explain really, but as you walk out you're following the tide out, so for part of the walk and near potential GZ even at low tide you're relatively close to the sea. The window of opportunity is quite small.

 

The part in bold is why I started this thread. I'm quite cautious too and wanted to gauge whether other and more experienced cachers would think it's okay. From the replies it looks like it'll be worth doing. And as you say making it part of a puzzle is a really good idea.

 

This thread has definitely been worthwhile as some of the suggestions have been things I would never have thought about on my own and this cache will be all the better for it.

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Here is one I did recently.

 

GC15J1D Flotsam & Jetsam

 

It includes a lot of information on tides and safely - and that you can only do it safely during certain "spring" tides.

 

Great fun by the way.

 

I like that a lot. Think I'll go for something similar on the cache description.

 

Ironically my cache will use the same name!!

 

That looks like the one I was thinking of...No wonder I couldn't find it near St Ives! :laughing:

 

From the 'extreme caches' bookmarked list, here are a few more which might be of interest. (I think I read that cache listings are copyrighted, so copying too closely without COs permissions isn't allowed, but it would probably be a good idea to see how cachers have fared with finding them, and if they have any suggestions anyway.)

 

Monkey Island

 

Pirate's treasure Trove

 

Red Sand's Fort

 

Somewhere over the...? (Not a Tidal cache, but another interesting cache page, good to see the wording in various extreme caches.)

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It's hard to explain really, but as you walk out you're following the tide out, so for part of the walk and near potential GZ even at low tide you're relatively close to the sea. The window of opportunity is quite small.

 

 

Judging by your current hides, we were around there for our honeymoon, Mr F and I! :D

 

All the best with your cache.

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...Ironically my cache will use the same name!!

Find your own cache name! :mad:

 

If there are any potential dangers I would suggest making it a Premium Members Only cache - let me explain. As geocachers we are used to finding our caches from the GC website in the usual way. Don't forget however that web searches can easily turn them up when non-cachers are doing other totally unrelated searches. They could be found this way by young children under the age of consent who then see them as fun and have a go. If they get into difficulties then, IMHO, you could end up being liable. By making it a Premium cache, only paid up geocachers can read the listing.

 

Just an opinion.

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...Ironically my cache will use the same name!!

Find your own cache name! :mad:

 

If there are any potential dangers I would suggest making it a Premium Members Only cache - let me explain. As geocachers we are used to finding our caches from the GC website in the usual way. Don't forget however that web searches can easily turn them up when non-cachers are doing other totally unrelated searches. They could be found this way by young children under the age of consent who then see them as fun and have a go. If they get into difficulties then, IMHO, you could end up being liable. By making it a Premium cache, only paid up geocachers can read the listing.

 

Just an opinion.

 

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

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...Ironically my cache will use the same name!!

Find your own cache name! :mad:

 

Yes, please don't use the same name as an existing iconic cache.

 

Although there is nothing to stop you from doing so it would overshadow it so to speak. If your cache is going to be a unique 'must do' cache it ought to have a unique name. ;)

 

 

Mark

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...Ironically my cache will use the same name!!

Find your own cache name! :mad:

 

Yes, please don't use the same name as an existing iconic cache.

 

Although there is nothing to stop you from doing so it would overshadow it so to speak. If your cache is going to be a unique 'must do' cache it ought to have a unique name. ;)

 

 

Mark

 

Well my cache will be prefixed with something else followed by Flotsam & Jetsam!!

 

I doubt it'll compete with FollowMeChaps' cache so I don't think the name will be too much of an issue anyway!!

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From the 'extreme caches' bookmarked list, here are a few more which might be of interest. (I think I read that cache listings are copyrighted, so copying too closely without COs permissions isn't allowed, but it would probably be a good idea to see how cachers have fared with finding them, and if they have any suggestions anyway.)

 

Monkey Island

 

Pirate's treasure Trove

 

Red Sand's Fort

 

Somewhere over the...? (Not a Tidal cache, but another interesting cache page, good to see the wording in various extreme caches.)

 

Copyright listing ?

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As mentioned earlier, for me the key difference is that with an island at least you've got somewhere to wait. From what you say about small windows of time and cliffs, it's a much more serious proposition. So, yes, I'd make it at least a simple off-set multi, forcing people to actually look at the web page to go beyond the initial co-ords.

 

Just for interest, if anyone is over in France, a great walk round a few island caches can be found here: http://coord.info/GC26X6Y

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It's hard to explain really, but as you walk out you're following the tide out, so for part of the walk and near potential GZ even at low tide you're relatively close to the sea. The window of opportunity is quite small.

 

 

Judging by your current hides, we were around there for our honeymoon, Mr F and I! :D

 

All the best with your cache.

 

Ah cool, where abouts were you?

 

As mentioned earlier, for me the key difference is that with an island at least you've got somewhere to wait. From what you say about small windows of time and cliffs, it's a much more serious proposition. So, yes, I'd make it at least a simple off-set multi, forcing people to actually look at the web page to go beyond the initial co-ords.

 

Just for interest, if anyone is over in France, a great walk round a few island caches can be found here: http://coord.info/GC26X6Y

 

Yeah I will definitely be making it a multi/mystery cache.

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