Is Geocaching anti-conservation?

[+bflentje]

Well, perhaps when your powers of argument have evolved beyond trolling you would be kind enough to contribute something useful to the discussion.

 

My post was exactly as stated, sarcasm. Perhaps you might consider returning to talkorigins.org to refine your subtle (in)ability to know the difference between sarcasm and trolling.

[+SmallsKC]

It's a very short sighted attitude on the part of the preserve. Geocaching is decidedly pro-conservation. For most of human history there was no conservation movement. The earth was a resource to be used. Nature was something to be tamed. It wasn't until people who felt a connection to our natural areas realized that they were threatened and fought back.

 

Without people who are connected to these areas there is nobody to speak up for them. Unfortunately with each generation we're losing our connection with nature. Kids today on the whole do not grow up hunting, fishing, and wandering the woods. They grow up in front of a television set, get their entertainment from a Playstation and go from one adult supervised activity to another.

 

If things continue on their present course we will have a society that has no connection with, or appreciation of the natural world.

 

It's only through exposure to natural areas that people will come to appreciate them. Geocaching gets kids (and their parents) outdoors and into nature and can help create a new generation of advocates for our natural areas.

 

 

I couldn't agree more. I grew up in the middle of the Croatan National Forest in North Carolina. Now I live in Kansas. Times were different back then (70s). We would go play in the woods with no supervision all day. We came home when we could hear my mom yell for us to eat. We weren't allowed to play inside all day. We didn't have cable, xbox, playstation, wii, computers, cell phones, etc. Times are different now. There are so many electronics that all of us are attached to. Not just the kids. I know I don't go anywhere without my iPhone so I am just as guilty. Also, we don't live in the country where the kids can't just run off and play in nature like I did as a kid. We have to watch them at all times for fear of something terrible happening to them. Now I am not one of those paranoid mothers but I do keep an eye on my kids (3 girls ages 10, 8 and almost 3). There are too many crazy people out there that target children. I also grew up with black widow spiders outside our house and copperhead snakes EVERYWHERE. They lived in our woodpile in the back yard. Not to mention all the other snakes and snapping turtles. Not only that we had poison ivy/oak growing up the back of our house and ticks everywhere. My mom was always pulling ticks off of us as kids. I even got Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. Now days people are so paranoid of EVERYTHING. I will tell you I am living proof that none of those things are going to kill you. :-) I loved playing with turtles, frogs, lizards and snakes as a kid. I even climbed every tree I possibly could. I remember watching baby birds hatch one year while I sat in the tree. I had been checking on the eggs everyday and was lucky enough to see them hatch. Now I am not a big fan of snakes and spiders now days (terrified of them actually).

 

I am sad that my kids don't get to have the same experiences I had as a kid. The world is so different now. This is one thing I LOVE about geocaching. I love that it gets us out of the house. I hate that my kids just want to watch TV all day. I actually recently cancelled cable all together because I was so tired of the kids sitting inside all the time. Now they actually want to play outside since there is no TV to watch. Do we miss TV? NOPE!!! None of us miss it at all. We have so much fun going outside together. My husband has taken the kids camping every Memorial Day and Labor Day weekend for the last several years. He always says it is so much work but it is very important to him to make those memories with the girls and to get them away from technology. We have a very strict rule that they (and us) are not allowed to bring ANY electronics including phones. It is awesome. Even though we have only been geocaching for a few months it has been such a wonderful experience for our family. (Plus it is helping me face my fears of snakes and spiders....ok....I'll admit....I HATE that part). LOL

 

Ok....maybe I have digressed too much from the original post.

[+Sharks-N-Beans]

To the OP: What was it about the area that prompted you to want to place the cache?

 

Well, this is not a cache I placed. I adopted it because it was needing some attention. The CO was a little out of town and maybe doesn't have as much time for caching as before, it was a nice ammo can cache (not many of those about these days) which needed some repair and a new log book. I adopted it, and as the new CO contacted the land manager to check about permission and asking for who to contact about geocaching.

This particular cache is archived now (which it might have been anyway, as the cache had been there for 7 years and the slope around the tree was getting pretty worn down from geocachers scrabbling around on it). My heart isn't in trying to push for placing another cache there now, I'll take the local advice and leave it at that with this one. There are other good caches not too far away.

 

However there's a lot of good advice in this thread overall which might come in useful for other caches (not just mine, but I am waiting for permission to place some in a different reserve, with different management).

 

While it's encouraging that a lot of people here do care about conservation and understand the issue, it's actions of the few who demonstrably don't care or understand that get geocaching a bad name and can then lead to a ban. Finding ways to minimise the damage around the cache site is probably the most important part of cache placement and essential to our lasting enjoyment of the game.

 

My apologies for not acknowledging your reply. Where I was going with my question is that the land manager needed to hear that other than possibly research, your goal of placing (or maintaining) a cache at the reserve was to share what the reserve has to offer with other outdoor enthusiasts. I think mentioning the attributes of an area shows land managers that their efforts are appreciated. Geocaching is an excellent was for them to achieve their overarching objectives of conservation, education, research and quiet enjoyment of the countryside.

[+Fianccetto]

 

My apologies for not acknowledging your reply. Where I was going with my question is that the land manager needed to hear that other than possibly research, your goal of placing (or maintaining) a cache at the reserve was to share what the reserve has to offer with other outdoor enthusiasts. I think mentioning the attributes of an area shows land managers that their efforts are appreciated. Geocaching is an excellent was for them to achieve their overarching objectives of conservation, education, research and quiet enjoyment of the countryside.

 

No need to apologies, it is the nature of forum communication to have delayed responses, or none at all!

 

It is sad that the Trust involved appears to disagree with us on the point of geocaching helping with their (our) objectives. Since I am a paid up member of the Trust myself (as were my parents) I might as well add they are my aims as well. I have 2 young children and I find it's a great way to get them out and about, and on the way we point out various species of plant, take photos of insects to identify later, or perhaps pick out bird calls and follow the countryside code, all things that are best absorbed rather than formally taught. They become second nature that way.

 

However, geocaching doesn't teach those things, it is being around wildlife enthusiasts that does that (I think) and the trust does run an excellent range of education projects, activities and courses. My children are not as keen to attend them though, so I fear I have failed to pass on the enthusiasm of my parents to my children.

[knowschad]

I have seen woods really trashed by cachers.

 

I have actually seen CACHERS in the act of trashing the woods. 2 teenagers were looking for a cache and rather than just reading the cache page which gave implicit instructions on exactly how to find the cache, they were beating all the plants in the area with sticks, leaving an area void of vegetation.

 

Most often when an area is trashed it's when there are bad coordinates and or bad clues when it's a cache in the woods.

In the woods reception is always sketchy, so it's good to have good clues. Not all caches do.

 

Many sites of caches need to be moved to give the area a while to "rest" and heal up from the traffic.

 

 

Overall, if you look at the damage we do, say compared to what off-road vehicles do, it's not bad.

 

It's all relative.

 

We are getting people out into the woods and getting more people to appreciate nature, which leads to more conservation efforts.

 

I'm awake now. You just generalized two groups. So are we to take it all teenagers are wood trashing cachers. And all offroad vehicle operators cause damage.

What you should have said is that some cachers were trashing the woods. By pointing out that they were teenagers you tend to imply that all teenage cachers might be bad.

As far as the offroad crowd, like any other group there are bad apples. If an off road vehichle stays on the legal and established trails then they do no damage to the forest. It would be the, let's be nice and call them "uneducated" offroaders that cause damage. Don't forget that many geocachers are also offroaders and that is their method of transportation to get to some of the cache areas.

You could have just generalized and said "Geocachers trash the forest and cause damage".

By the way the offroad remark is the one that "woke me up" I'm not quite a teenager any more.

 

I don't think you are quite awake just yet.

 

She didn't say, or even imply that it is always teenagers that trash an area. She said, " have actually seen CACHERS in the act of trashing the woods.". And then she went on to give one specific example that she had seen that happened to have involved teenage geocachers. I read nothing more into it than that.

 

She also did not say that off-road vehicles always cause damage. She said that when they do cause damage, that it is generally much worse than the damage caused by geocachers.

[+Presence]

Hi, I didn't read everyone else post but heres my two cents. While I don't know everyone that caches, everyone I have meet has been very into the environment and protecting it. Caching has taken my family to places we never would have seen without it. I think for the most part is very earth friendly and great way to teach children about nature and ways to preserve it. I do understand there are some places that aren't cache friendly but in a preserve you would think they would want people to come visit. Helps with funding. maybe in the future if you want to hide a cache give the park a few options and let them know hey this will help your park become more popular. Many times after finding a place we never knew exsisted we continue to go back for picnic or walks. Anyways thats my view

[+Frank Broughton]

There is absolutely no debate, geocaching does damage to nature, but big deal nature grows back fast from most of it! Tearing up sensitive growth areas which contain rare plants - it does not though. No one can say that geocaching does not hurt nature to a degree.

[+bflentje]

There is absolutely no debate, geocaching does damage to nature, but big deal nature grows back fast from most of it! Tearing up sensitive growth areas which contain rare plants - it does not though. No one can say that geocaching does not hurt nature to a degree.

 

HUGE EYE ROLL. Humans didn't just arrive here on alien spaceships, we're part of nature as well. As for tearing up sensitive growth, have you ever seen a moose run through the bogs and swamplands? Do you know just how many pitcher plants and lady slippers get destroyed in the process? Did you know that bears really DO crap in the woods? And deer trails are named deer trails for a reason?

[+dfx]

There is absolutely no debate, geocaching does damage to nature, but big deal nature grows back fast from most of it! Tearing up sensitive growth areas which contain rare plants - it does not though. No one can say that geocaching does not hurt nature to a degree.

 

HUGE EYE ROLL. Humans didn't just arrive here on alien spaceships, we're part of nature as well. As for tearing up sensitive growth, have you ever seen a moose run through the bogs and swamplands? Do you know just how many pitcher plants and lady slippers get destroyed in the process? Did you know that bears really DO crap in the woods? And deer trails are named deer trails for a reason?

 

And all this is exactly what a conservation area wants to conserve.

[+Frank Broughton]

There is absolutely no debate, geocaching does damage to nature, but big deal nature grows back fast from most of it! Tearing up sensitive growth areas which contain rare plants - it does not though. No one can say that geocaching does not hurt nature to a degree.

 

HUGE EYE ROLL. Humans didn't just arrive here on alien spaceships, we're part of nature as well. As for tearing up sensitive growth, have you ever seen a moose run through the bogs and swamplands? Do you know just how many pitcher plants and lady slippers get destroyed in the process? Did you know that bears really DO crap in the woods? And deer trails are named deer trails for a reason?

 

And all this is exactly what a conservation area wants to conserve.

 

Exactly, he can roll the eyes all he wants. That does not change the facts presented one iota. Your post is right on. I know a currator (25 plus years he has done it) at an awesome local preserve, He took me on a personal tour of some of the sensitive areas some time ago. There is a real nice cascade water falls there. During a heavy storm a TON of fallen trees were deposited at the bottom of the area (IMO wrecking the appearance) when I mentioned cleaning it up he said: "Frank you still do not get it - it is natural, that is what we want." Then he showed me a real cool site not far away - a huge amazing beaver dam (over 100' long) - using wood from the storm damage. That was a sight to behold.

[+bflentje]

There is absolutely no debate, geocaching does damage to nature, but big deal nature grows back fast from most of it! Tearing up sensitive growth areas which contain rare plants - it does not though. No one can say that geocaching does not hurt nature to a degree.

 

HUGE EYE ROLL. Humans didn't just arrive here on alien spaceships, we're part of nature as well. As for tearing up sensitive growth, have you ever seen a moose run through the bogs and swamplands? Do you know just how many pitcher plants and lady slippers get destroyed in the process? Did you know that bears really DO crap in the woods? And deer trails are named deer trails for a reason?

 

And all this is exactly what a conservation area wants to conserve.

 

Exactly, he can roll the eyes all he wants. That does not change the facts presented one iota. Your post is right on. I know a currator (25 plus years he has done it) at an awesome local preserve, He took me on a personal tour of some of the sensitive areas some time ago. There is a real nice cascade water falls there. During a heavy storm a TON of fallen trees were deposited at the bottom of the area (IMO wrecking the appearance) when I mentioned cleaning it up he said: "Frank you still do not get it - it is natural, that is what we want." Then he showed me a real cool site not far away - a huge amazing beaver dam (over 100' long) - using wood from the storm damage. That was a sight to behold.

 

What about the trail you took out to the waterfall and beaver dam? Because I am not sure how many geocachers are ruining cascade waterfalls or the area at their landing. And I can't remember the last time I messed with a beaver dam. The sarcasm of my response is to point out the folly of your examples. I don't think anyone would dispute the important of a conservation area. But to suggest (not you, but the thread) geocaching may violate that idea is ludicrous.

[4wheelin_fool]

There is absolutely no debate, geocaching does damage to nature, but big deal nature grows back fast from most of it! Tearing up sensitive growth areas which contain rare plants - it does not though. No one can say that geocaching does not hurt nature to a degree.

 

HUGE EYE ROLL. Humans didn't just arrive here on alien spaceships, we're part of nature as well. As for tearing up sensitive growth, have you ever seen a moose run through the bogs and swamplands? Do you know just how many pitcher plants and lady slippers get destroyed in the process? Did you know that bears really DO crap in the woods? And deer trails are named deer trails for a reason?

MASSIVE EYE ROLL. Humans DID arrive here on alien spaceship, along with 71 alien species of animals that Noah brought with him. We are not a part of the natural forming of this planet, and are slowly destroying it. Pretty soon we will eventually repeat ourselves, and the planet will resemble the previous one - the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. There is not anything that can be done to stop it, only actions to delay the inevitable as long as possible.

[+bflentje]

There is absolutely no debate, geocaching does damage to nature, but big deal nature grows back fast from most of it! Tearing up sensitive growth areas which contain rare plants - it does not though. No one can say that geocaching does not hurt nature to a degree.

 

HUGE EYE ROLL. Humans didn't just arrive here on alien spaceships, we're part of nature as well. As for tearing up sensitive growth, have you ever seen a moose run through the bogs and swamplands? Do you know just how many pitcher plants and lady slippers get destroyed in the process? Did you know that bears really DO crap in the woods? And deer trails are named deer trails for a reason?

MASSIVE EYE ROLL. Humans DID arrive here on alien spaceship, along with 71 alien species of animals that Noah brought with him. We are not a part of the natural forming of this planet, and are slowly destroying it. Pretty soon we will eventually repeat ourselves, and the planet will resemble the previous one - the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. There is not anything that can be done to stop it, only actions to delay the inevitable as long as possible.

 

Well nutz, let's get Admiral Adama to fly us out of here on the Galactica to find a new home. Just be sure to reserve #6 or #8 for me.

[+Frank Broughton]

There is absolutely no debate, geocaching does damage to nature, but big deal nature grows back fast from most of it! Tearing up sensitive growth areas which contain rare plants - it does not though. No one can say that geocaching does not hurt nature to a degree.

 

HUGE EYE ROLL. Humans didn't just arrive here on alien spaceships, we're part of nature as well. As for tearing up sensitive growth, have you ever seen a moose run through the bogs and swamplands? Do you know just how many pitcher plants and lady slippers get destroyed in the process? Did you know that bears really DO crap in the woods? And deer trails are named deer trails for a reason?

 

And all this is exactly what a conservation area wants to conserve.

 

Exactly, he can roll the eyes all he wants. That does not change the facts presented one iota. Your post is right on. I know a currator (25 plus years he has done it) at an awesome local preserve, He took me on a personal tour of some of the sensitive areas some time ago. There is a real nice cascade water falls there. During a heavy storm a TON of fallen trees were deposited at the bottom of the area (IMO wrecking the appearance) when I mentioned cleaning it up he said: "Frank you still do not get it - it is natural, that is what we want." Then he showed me a real cool site not far away - a huge amazing beaver dam (over 100' long) - using wood from the storm damage. That was a sight to behold.

 

What about the trail you took out to the waterfall and beaver dam? Because I am not sure how many geocachers are ruining cascade waterfalls or the area at their landing. And I can't remember the last time I messed with a beaver dam. The sarcasm of my response is to point out the folly of your examples. I don't think anyone would dispute the important of a conservation area. But to suggest (not you, but the thread) geocaching may violate that idea is ludicrous.

 

Okay I will play your silly game (I know you like to argue) my example idi not have anything to do with geocaching - you are a big boy and plenty smart enough to see that. It was an example as what preserves want preserved.

 

I stand on my original statement geocaching hurts nature and it is not debatable by any reasonable person. (yes calling you unreasonable )

[+bflentje]

I stand on my original statement geocaching hurts nature and it is not debatable by any reasonable person. (yes calling you unreasonable )

 

THEN HOW IN GOOD CONSCIENCE CAN YOU GEOCACHE? Oh, it's because you're too busy here lamblasting the rest of us for walking on the grass (I can't think of ANYONE that would not want to preserve those things that you mention).

[+Frank Broughton]

I stand on my original statement geocaching hurts nature and it is not debatable by any reasonable person. (yes calling you unreasonable )

 

THEN HOW IN GOOD CONSCIENCE CAN YOU GEOCACHE? Oh, it's because you're too busy here lamblasting the rest of us for walking on the grass (I can't think of ANYONE that would not want to preserve those things that you mention).

 

Continuing on with your silly game, I ask you this: where did I lamblast anyone for walking on grass? I did not even come close to "severely scolding" anyone. I simply stated a fact that no one can deny. I made no suggestion of my thoughts on the fact either way, now did I Mr Argumentative Man?

 

You sir are not reading what I am saying and trying to get your fix!

[+briansnat]

There is absolutely no debate, geocaching does damage to nature, but big deal nature grows back fast from most of it! Tearing up sensitive growth areas which contain rare plants - it does not though. No one can say that geocaching does not hurt nature to a degree.

 

No activity in nature is impact free. Hunting, birdwatching, hiking, camping, mountain biking, anything you do outdoors will have an impact. The impact of geocaching is generally quite a bit less than that of many popular outdoor activities.

 

Just this weekend I was caching and camping in the Adirondacks. I stayed at a designated campsite, one of nearly 40 along a wilderness lake and river system. The campsite itself was flat and compacted with no vegetation for about a 500 square ft area other than a few trees. For about .2 mile in each direction from the site the ground was devoid of any undergrowth or dead wood, as campers frequented the area to pick up and cut firewood. Half a dozen or more social trails starting at the site snaked their way into the woods. Nearly every nearby tree had limbs that were sawed off and there were close to a hundred small tree stumps where campers cut down small trees. Trees around the site were full of axe marks. I had to walk about a quarter mile from the campsite before the evidence of human impact dissipated.

 

On the other side of the river about .13 mile away was a geocache. It took me a while to find it. Why? Because there was no visible evidence that the cache was there.

 

This isn't an isolated example. Two years ago I was camping in another Adirondack wilderness area. I went to find a cache that hidden near a designated wilderness campsite. The damage around the site was similar to what I described above, though the damage was no quite as spread out due to the rugged terrain around the site. The previous campers also decided to leave a case of empty beer cans and several empty vodka bottles and users of the site decided that the provided pit toilet was not to their taste, so the ground around the site was laced with feces and toilet paper in various stages of disintegration.

 

The cache was about 400 feet behind the designated campsite. Took me quite a while to find. Again it was because there was no visible evidence of the cache's presence.

 

Which activity has more of an impact?

Edited September 30, 2011 by briansnat

[+Frank Broughton]

Yes, Brian I agree with what you are saying. I am not saying geocaching is bad, I only answered the question the OP presented in this thread. The answer on a whole is yes, and no one can deny that. I did not give an opinion as to what I think about the damage at all. I think in most cases is is allowable/normal (better word?) and heals fast. I just answered the question and am now helping b man with his fix... haha

 

I have several caches in areas that you will see zero evidence of a human being at it, no not in the city on concrete - in the woods.

 

Again, I only stated the obvious and gave no opinion 'cept now in this post.

[+briansnat]

Yes, Brian I agree with what you are saying. I am not saying geocaching is bad, I only answered the question the OP presented in this thread. The answer on a whole is yes, and no one can deny that. I did not give an opinion as to what I think about the damage at all. I think in most cases is is allowable/normal (better word?) and heals fast. I just answered the question and am now helping b man with his fix... haha

 

I have several caches in areas that you will see zero evidence of a human being at it, no not in the city on concrete - in the woods.

 

Again, I only stated the obvious and gave no opinion 'cept now in this post.

 

The impact of geocaching is for the most part negligible and barely worth bringing up.

[GOF and Bacall]

Face it, geocaching hates nature. We are out to destroy it. We won't be happy until every last tree is dead and cut into lumber. Every last baby seal hide is adorning some socialites person.

 

Now if you'll excuse me I am gonna go change the oil in my car and dump the old stuff in the river.

[+Fianccetto]

Face it, geocaching hates nature. We are out to destroy it. We won't be happy until every last tree is dead and cut into lumber. Every last baby seal hide is adorning some socialites person.

 

Now if you'll excuse me I am gonna go change the oil in my car and dump the old stuff in the river.

 

At last, an honest answer we can all believe. Thanks GOF, knew I could depend on you.

 

 

briansnat, you might think it's not worth bringing this topic up, but I've seen a lot of impact from geocaching in various places. A lot of it is to do with how big an area of 'wilderness' there is and how close to a town, which is going to be vastly smaller areas, nearer towns here in UK compared to preserves and wilderness areas in USA. I've never seen the kind of damage you describe around those camp sites though. It's good to get some perspective. That is part of the point of asking questions, isn't it?

[+bflentje]

Yes, Brian I agree with what you are saying. I am not saying geocaching is bad, I only answered the question the OP presented in this thread. The answer on a whole is yes, and no one can deny that. I did not give an opinion as to what I think about the damage at all. I think in most cases is is allowable/normal (better word?) and heals fast. I just answered the question and am now helping b man with his fix... haha

 

I have several caches in areas that you will see zero evidence of a human being at it, no not in the city on concrete - in the woods.

 

Again, I only stated the obvious and gave no opinion 'cept now in this post.

 

The impact of geocaching is for the most part negligible and barely worth bringing up.

 

What do you guys say?? Ding ding??

 

That was MY point.

[+Frank Broughton]

Face it, geocaching hates nature. We are out to destroy it. We won't be happy until every last tree is dead and cut into lumber. Every last baby seal hide is adorning some socialites person.

 

Now if you'll excuse me I am gonna go change the oil in my car and dump the old stuff in the river.

 

haha - naw, just the sewer in your case.....

 

oh boy - how do I get out of this thread?

[GOF and Bacall]

This way to the great egress. -------->

[+popokiiti]

If the park/nature preserve doesn't want a physical geocache there, possibly because of cachers' trails and the like, how about a challenge? Is there a viewpoint/waterfall/interesting sign/really large tree that folks could be photographed at? Just a thought...

[TorgtheViking]

There is absolutely no debate, geocaching does damage to nature, but big deal nature grows back fast from most of it! Tearing up sensitive growth areas which contain rare plants - it does not though. No one can say that geocaching does not hurt nature to a degree.

 

HUGE EYE ROLL. Humans didn't just arrive here on alien spaceships, we're part of nature as well. As for tearing up sensitive growth, have you ever seen a moose run through the bogs and swamplands? Do you know just how many pitcher plants and lady slippers get destroyed in the process? Did you know that bears really DO crap in the woods? And deer trails are named deer trails for a reason?

MASSIVE EYE ROLL. Humans DID arrive here on alien spaceship, along with 71 alien species of animals that Noah brought with him. We are not a part of the natural forming of this planet, and are slowly destroying it. Pretty soon we will eventually repeat ourselves, and the planet will resemble the previous one - the asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter. There is not anything that can be done to stop it, only actions to delay the inevitable as long as possible.

 

Well nutz, let's get Admiral Adama to fly us out of here on the Galactica to find a new home. Just be sure to reserve #6 or #8 for me.

 

BYE YOUR COMMAND!

Edited October 1, 2011 by TorgtheViking

[+The_Incredibles_]

What an odd thread this is becoming, will it ever die?

Edited October 1, 2011 by The_Incredibles_

[+Fianccetto]

Thanks for all the contributions, for those of us that Admiral Adama left behind, please make your way quietly through the exit via the gift shop.

[Keystone]

Closing thread at OP's request.