D3 vs D4

[+JL_HSTRE]

Can you put into words your opinion of the difference between a Traditional cache of Difficulty 3 vs Difficulty 4?

 

Links to relevant cache page examples appreciated.

[+dfx]

Sure: D4 is harder than D3

[+wildchld97]

Sure: D4 is harder than D3

 

 

A D5 will definitely be harder than a D4, D3, D2, and D1.

 

Seriously though.

 

A D1 is generally a no brainer. A toddler could find it.

 

A D2 is maybe hidden just a little better, but is still a piece of cake to an experienced cacher.

 

A D3 is a cache that we find ourselves running in circles and looking in and under every tree stump.

 

A D4 means that you might have to solve some type of puzzle, it might be a multi-cache or it just might mean that you have to prepare a lot for it.

 

A D5 means that you'll more than likely be using special equipment or knowledge to find it. A boat, climbing gear, skis, whatever.

[+CanadianRockies]

According to Groundspeak's Knowledge Books:

 

D3: Challenging

 

An experienced cache hunter will find this challenging, and it could take up a good portion of an afternoon.

 

D4: Difficult

 

A real challenge for the experienced cache hunter - may require special skills or knowledge, or in-depth preparation to find. May require multiple days / trips to complete.

In practice, a significant number of people tend to overrate the difficulty of their caches. Many D3s are closer to D2, and many D4s are closer to D2.5.

[+Ambient_Skater]

The more challenging the cache is to find, the more stars it'll have.

[+Isonzo Karst]

D3 If I'm comfortable in the location, patient, and the cache has been out a while so there's some info lurking in the logs, I'm probably gonna find it.

D4 If I'm by myself, and I don't find it in some time frame dictated by dumb luck, location, temp, bugs, hunger etc, I'll log a DNF and move on. If I'm with other cachers, and somebody in the group is a hard-core hunter, someone will probably find it, and I'll sign the log too....;-) Alternately, I'll be the whiny one in the group declaring NHF* and going on to something else.

 

*Not Having Fun

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Sure: D4 is harder than D3

 

 

A D5 will definitely be harder than a D4, D3, D2, and D1.

 

Seriously though.

 

A D1 is generally a no brainer. A toddler could find it.

 

A D2 is maybe hidden just a little better, but is still a piece of cake to an experienced cacher.

 

A D3 is a cache that we find ourselves running in circles and looking in and under every tree stump.

 

A D4 means that you might have to solve some type of puzzle, it might be a multi-cache or it just might mean that you have to prepare a lot for it.

 

A D5 means that you'll more than likely be using special equipment or knowledge to find it. A boat, climbing gear, skis, whatever.

 

A D4 might be a puzzle or multi-cache, but so could a D1, D2, D3, or D5. Difficulty is not related to the cache type. That said, many of the D4 or D5 caches that you'll see will use a puzzle to achieve that rating. In that case, the difficulty is a combination of the puzzle must solve to obtain the coordinates and how difficult that contain is to find once you've arrived at the location.

 

In general, the difference between a D3 and D4 cache essentially boils down to how long it will take, on average, for a geocacher to find the container once they've arrived at the coordinates. For a D3 cache that could be an hour or so. For a D4 cache it might take several hours, which often means it might require several attempts to search for it before it's finally found. There's a D4 cache near me that took me four different visits and over three hours of searching before I finally found it. I've been watching and multiple visits to find it is the norm rather than the exception. That, to me, is a D4. I've also seen cache listings that have over 100 DNFs and before someone finds it (and the CO frequently verifies it's still there) that are rated a D5.

 

The use of special equipment like a boat or climbing gear has nothing to do with the Difficulty rating. If special equipment is required, that effects the Terrain rating.

[+DanOCan]

The use of special equipment like a boat or climbing gear has nothing to do with the Difficulty rating. If special equipment is required, that effects the Terrain rating.

 

The Knowledge Books do say for Difficulty 5:

 

A serious mental or physical challenge. Requires specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment to find cache."

 

So, officially, specialized equipment can affect the Difficulty rating. The examples you gave are Terrain based since a boat or climbing gear are clearly used for getting to the cache site (Terrain), but to say special equipment ONLY affects the Terrain is not necessarily true.

[+briansnat]

I would expect a difficulty 3 to take me at least an hour or two to find unless I get lucky.

 

A difficulty 4 would probably take several trips find.

[knowschad]

The use of special equipment like a boat or climbing gear has nothing to do with the Difficulty rating. If special equipment is required, that effects the Terrain rating.

 

The Knowledge Books do say for Difficulty 5:

 

A serious mental or physical challenge. Requires specialized knowledge, skills, or equipment to find cache."

 

So, officially, specialized equipment can affect the Difficulty rating. The examples you gave are Terrain based since a boat or climbing gear are clearly used for getting to the cache site (Terrain), but to say special equipment ONLY affects the Terrain is not necessarily true.

 

I would think that special equipment like climbing or scuba gear would pertain to the terrain rating, whereas special equipment like a UV light or, I dunno...geiger counter?... would pertain to the difficulty rating.

[+Avernar]

I would think that special equipment like climbing or scuba gear would pertain to the terrain rating, whereas special equipment like a UV light or, I dunno...geiger counter?... would pertain to the difficulty rating.

Yup. However the question for the special equipment for terrain (boat, scuba, etc) has been removed from the rating tool. The results page still mentions them though.

 

Because of the special equipment thing I find T4.5 to be harder than a T5. Even some D5 caches were easier than D4.5 caches because the special equipment was trivial to obtain.

[+Coldgears]

I think I might have overrate this cache. Because it is not a multi or a puzzle as mentioned above.

[Pup Patrol]

Here's the Clayjar cache rating system:

 

http://www.clayjar.com/gcrs/

 

I could have sworn that the cache submission form used to link to that site.

[+dfx]

Here's the Clayjar cache rating system:

 

http://www.clayjar.com/gcrs/

 

I could have sworn that the cache submission form used to link to that site.

 

It used to, but they annexed it, and now it links here.

[+luvvinbird]

Here's the Clayjar cache rating system:

 

http://www.clayjar.com/gcrs/

 

I could have sworn that the cache submission form used to link to that site.

 

It used to, but they annexed it, and now it links here.

I never knew that existed! Thank you. Other than your link, I can find no way to get to that page. I clicked "Hide and Seek a Geocache" but can't find "Edit a Geocache Listing" which leads to "Rate a Geocache". I'm about to hide another cache and I'd like to try their system. Oh boy, me bad...I've been rating mine using similar caches as a guideline. No complaints, though.

[+dfx]

I never knew that existed! Thank you. Other than your link, I can find no way to get to that page. I clicked "Hide and Seek a Geocache" but can't find "Edit a Geocache Listing" which leads to "Rate a Geocache". I'm about to hide another cache and I'd like to try their system. Oh boy, me bad...I've been rating mine using similar caches as a guideline. No complaints, though.

 

It's right there:

 

 

But it's only supposed to be a rough guideline anyway, nothing definitive. Always use your own judgment as last call.

 

PS: And the "edit" link is on the right-hand side of your owned listings, among "disable", "log" and all that.

Edited August 25, 2011 by dfx

[+luvvinbird]

I never knew that existed! Thank you. Other than your link, I can find no way to get to that page. I clicked "Hide and Seek a Geocache" but can't find "Edit a Geocache Listing" which leads to "Rate a Geocache". I'm about to hide another cache and I'd like to try their system. Oh boy, me bad...I've been rating mine using similar caches as a guideline. No complaints, though.

 

It's right there:

 

 

But it's only supposed to be a rough guideline anyway, nothing definitive. Always use your own judgment as last call.

 

PS: And the "edit" link is on the right-hand side of your owned listings, among "disable", "log" and all that.

I truly hope other geocachers using this forum realize how not alone they are when it comes to advice and support given by folks like you and others. Amazing!

[+Avernar]

Here's the Clayjar cache rating system:

 

http://www.clayjar.com/gcrs/

 

I could have sworn that the cache submission form used to link to that site.

 

It used to, but they annexed it, and now it links here.

Notice that the terrain special equipment question is on the clayjar version but not on the Groundspeak version.

[+niraD]

Notice that the terrain special equipment question is on the clayjar version but not on the Groundspeak version.

You aren't the first to notice that. It's under review:

http://feedback.geocaching.com/forums/75775-geocaching-com/suggestions/1444731-cache-rating-form

[Tahosa and Sons]

Its interesting to see that the Clayjar system is out of service. And they have a new one. Both give about the same D's & T's.

[+wildchld97]

Sure: D4 is harder than D3

 

 

A D5 will definitely be harder than a D4, D3, D2, and D1.

 

Seriously though.

 

A D1 is generally a no brainer. A toddler could find it.

 

A D2 is maybe hidden just a little better, but is still a piece of cake to an experienced cacher.

 

A D3 is a cache that we find ourselves running in circles and looking in and under every tree stump.

 

A D4 means that you might have to solve some type of puzzle, it might be a multi-cache or it just might mean that you have to prepare a lot for it.

 

A D5 means that you'll more than likely be using special equipment or knowledge to find it. A boat, climbing gear, skis, whatever.

 

A D4 might be a puzzle or multi-cache, but so could a D1, D2, D3, or D5. Difficulty is not related to the cache type. That said, many of the D4 or D5 caches that you'll see will use a puzzle to achieve that rating. In that case, the difficulty is a combination of the puzzle must solve to obtain the coordinates and how difficult that contain is to find once you've arrived at the location.

 

In general, the difference between a D3 and D4 cache essentially boils down to how long it will take, on average, for a geocacher to find the container once they've arrived at the coordinates. For a D3 cache that could be an hour or so. For a D4 cache it might take several hours, which often means it might require several attempts to search for it before it's finally found. There's a D4 cache near me that took me four different visits and over three hours of searching before I finally found it. I've been watching and multiple visits to find it is the norm rather than the exception. That, to me, is a D4. I've also seen cache listings that have over 100 DNFs and before someone finds it (and the CO frequently verifies it's still there) that are rated a D5.

 

The use of special equipment like a boat or climbing gear has nothing to do with the Difficulty rating. If special equipment is required, that effects the Terrain rating.

 

You are absolutely right about the puzzle reference and the special equipment reference. I was tired and my hands were typing faster than my brain. The rum didn't help either I guess...LOL. Carry on.

[+Chokecherry]

Sure: D4 is harder than D3

 

 

A D5 will definitely be harder than a D4, D3, D2, and D1.

 

Seriously though.

 

A D1 is generally a no brainer. A toddler could find it.

 

A D2 is maybe hidden just a little better, but is still a piece of cake to an experienced cacher.

 

A D3 is a cache that we find ourselves running in circles and looking in and under every tree stump.

 

A D4 means that you might have to solve some type of puzzle, it might be a multi-cache or it just might mean that you have to prepare a lot for it.

 

A D5 means that you'll more than likely be using special equipment or knowledge to find it. A boat, climbing gear, skis, whatever.

 

A D4 might be a puzzle or multi-cache, but so could a D1, D2, D3, or D5. Difficulty is not related to the cache type. That said, many of the D4 or D5 caches that you'll see will use a puzzle to achieve that rating. In that case, the difficulty is a combination of the puzzle must solve to obtain the coordinates and how difficult that contain is to find once you've arrived at the location.

 

In general, the difference between a D3 and D4 cache essentially boils down to how long it will take, on average, for a geocacher to find the container once they've arrived at the coordinates. For a D3 cache that could be an hour or so. For a D4 cache it might take several hours, which often means it might require several attempts to search for it before it's finally found. There's a D4 cache near me that took me four different visits and over three hours of searching before I finally found it. I've been watching and multiple visits to find it is the norm rather than the exception. That, to me, is a D4. I've also seen cache listings that have over 100 DNFs and before someone finds it (and the CO frequently verifies it's still there) that are rated a D5.

 

The use of special equipment like a boat or climbing gear has nothing to do with the Difficulty rating. If special equipment is required, that effects the Terrain rating.

 

Special equipment to get to the cache would affect terrain. Special equipment required to find the cache would affect difficulty. I may need to use climbing ropes to get to a cache. That would obviously affect terrain. But if I had to use a UV light once I got there to locate the cache location or a special tool to open the container to sign the log that would affect the difficulty of the cache. I would be walking on flat ground and have 1.5 terrain the whole way in but need to have a specific tool to get to the cache/log book. Then it would be a 5 difficulty and 1.5 terrain. I've found when people rate caches they seem to get difficulty and terrain mixed up.

 

Anyhow some caches that are D3 have taking me many trips and hours to find and a D4 hasn't taken me long at all to find. I don't see huge amounts of difference between the two in the wild (not counting puzzle caches). To me it doesn't matter if it's 3 or 4 for difficulty. I kind of take the D ratings other than 5 with a grain of salt because it's very subjective and sometimes dependent on caching experience. I've seen a variety of cache hiding techniques in the ones I've done which impacts how I look for caches now. So for me the difference between a 3 and 4 is negligible.