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Labadee Beach cache - CO won't let me log DNF


Jaybeee
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There is a vacation cache on Labadee Beach (GC8D0). I tried to find it in May 2010 while on a cruise, but had no luck because it was missing. A subsequent visitor to the beach has since replaced it. The CO (Todd & Tracy) will not allow me to post my DNF. The CO doesn't "like" me because I was critical of the cache when I initially posted my DNF. It was frustrating to spend valuable vacation time searching for a non-existent cache. Anyway, to make a long story short, the CO and I despise each other, which is fine because we don't actually know each other. I just want to log my DNF and be done with it, but the CO keeps deleting my DNF log. As everyone knows, posting finds and DNFs provides us with our own record of where we've been and what we've done. This was my only chance (so far) to geocache in Haiti, and even though I wasn't successful, I want a record of having been there. In the big scheme of things, I know that this is a relatively minor and extremely childish issue. Has anyone run into a CO like this one? If you look at the CO's history, you will see that they are not active geocachers and all but two of their caches have been archived for lack of maintenance or violation of geocaching.com regulations. They aren't even the owners of the current geocache at Labadee Beach, but they still hold the "power."

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Hmm. That's a new one for me. I would first try entering a DNF that contains little or no text (perhaps just "DNF"). If the CO continues to insist on deleting the log, you can try one last time, and contact contact@geocaching.com to see if they will reinstate your log and lock it from further deletion. They will sometimes do that for Found It logs; I'm not sure if they have a policy for DNFs.

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Just because you can't find a cache doesn't mean it IS missing.

Just because someone posts a DNF, it doesn't mean the cache is missing.

 

Have you tried just posting "DNF"?

 

If you really want to have a DNF on the cache, you may have to take it to Groundspeak. Cache owners are not supposed to delete 'legitimate' logs for caches.

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Just because you can't find a cache doesn't mean it IS missing.

Just because someone posts a DNF, it doesn't mean the cache is missing.

 

Have you tried just posting "DNF"?

 

If you really want to have a DNF on the cache, you may have to take it to Groundspeak. Cache owners are not supposed to delete 'legitimate' logs for caches.

 

The cache was missing at that time - that's why someone else replaced it. My DNF log says, "No luck this time, but a great excuse to take another cruise." Nothing rude, controversial, or critical. Simply my own record of having tried and failed to find it - that's all.

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Just because you can't find a cache doesn't mean it IS missing.

Just because someone posts a DNF, it doesn't mean the cache is missing.

 

Have you tried just posting "DNF"?

 

If you really want to have a DNF on the cache, you may have to take it to Groundspeak. Cache owners are not supposed to delete 'legitimate' logs for caches.

 

The cache was missing at that time - that's why someone else replaced it. My DNF log says, "No luck this time, but a great excuse to take another cruise." Nothing rude, controversial, or critical. Simply my own record of having tried and failed to find it - that's all.

 

I've been looking through previous logs.

Lots of 'updated' coordinates, that never seem to be made in to an Edit to correct them at the top of the page...

It's a 'Grandfathered' Vacation Cache...

Owner can't/won't carry out Maintenance...

 

:ph34r:

"Needs Maintenance"

"Needs Archived"

 

However.

If you do it, it will look like 'sour grapes' on your part.

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I've been looking through previous logs.

Lots of 'updated' coordinates, that never seem to be made in to an Edit to correct them at the top of the page...

It's a 'Grandfathered' Vacation Cache...

Owner can't/won't carry out Maintenance...

 

:ph34r:

"Needs Maintenance"

"Needs Archived"

 

However.

If you do it, it will look like 'sour grapes' on your part.

It is definitely a controversial cache. Labadee is a private area owned by Royal Caribbean, so all visitors are cruise ship passengers. I was disappointed when I couldn't find it because I'm not likely to get another chance. It was actually a valuable learning experience, and I now have my own personal set of rule regarding geocaching while on vacation. I tend to go for virtual caches instead of traditional caches, and I promised my family I will not spend more than 15 minutes searching for a cache!

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Close your eyes for a minute. Feel the warm tropical sun on your skin, the ocean breeze, the sound of the surf, the sea birds crying... so peaceful and beautiful.

Now, change your mind to this futile attempt to log the fact that you were unable to find this cache. Feel the teeth clenching, the blood pressure rising, the muscles tightening up?

 

Is this giving you a nice, warm comfy feeling and adding to the wonderful memories of your trip? Somehow, I doubt it. Simply dropping the issue would be better for every aspect of your mental health and well-being.

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Close your eyes for a minute. Feel the warm tropical sun on your skin, the ocean breeze, the sound of the surf, the sea birds crying... so peaceful and beautiful.

Now, change your mind to this futile attempt to log the fact that you were unable to find this cache. Feel the teeth clenching, the blood pressure rising, the muscles tightening up?

 

Is this giving you a nice, warm comfy feeling and adding to the wonderful memories of your trip? Somehow, I doubt it. Simply dropping the issue would be better for every aspect of your mental health and well-being.

Well said! Thank you for putting this into perspective. You are right.

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Close your eyes for a minute. Feel the warm tropical sun on your skin, the ocean breeze, the sound of the surf, the sea birds crying... so peaceful and beautiful.

Now, change your mind to this futile attempt to log the fact that you were unable to find this cache. Feel the teeth clenching, the blood pressure rising, the muscles tightening up?

 

Is this giving you a nice, warm comfy feeling and adding to the wonderful memories of your trip? Somehow, I doubt it. Simply dropping the issue would be better for every aspect of your mental health and well-being.

 

And the CO would win.

 

I'd appeal it, myself.

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Close your eyes for a minute. Feel the warm tropical sun on your skin, the ocean breeze, the sound of the surf, the sea birds crying... so peaceful and beautiful.

Now, change your mind to this futile attempt to log the fact that you were unable to find this cache. Feel the teeth clenching, the blood pressure rising, the muscles tightening up?

 

Is this giving you a nice, warm comfy feeling and adding to the wonderful memories of your trip? Somehow, I doubt it. Simply dropping the issue would be better for every aspect of your mental health and well-being.

 

And the CO would win.

 

I'd appeal it, myself.

 

Win what? Is there a prize involved that I don't know about? We're talking about a DNF log here, folks.

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Close your eyes for a minute. Feel the warm tropical sun on your skin, the ocean breeze, the sound of the surf, the sea birds crying... so peaceful and beautiful.

Now, change your mind to this futile attempt to log the fact that you were unable to find this cache. Feel the teeth clenching, the blood pressure rising, the muscles tightening up?

 

Is this giving you a nice, warm comfy feeling and adding to the wonderful memories of your trip? Somehow, I doubt it. Simply dropping the issue would be better for every aspect of your mental health and well-being.

 

And the CO would win.

 

I'd appeal it, myself.

 

Precisely my thought. It's pretty obvious where this is headed by the tone of their log entry:

 

Cache Owner Log Entry

 

They appear to be willing to bump this up to a Terms of Use violation, and with the number of times you've apparently logged this Listing, it would appear they have plenty of fodder to make their case to Groundspeak.

 

I'd suggest letting it go also.

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Precisely my thought. It's pretty obvious where this is headed by the tone of their log entry:

 

Cache Owner Log Entry

 

They appear to be willing to bump this up to a Terms of Use violation, and with the number of times you've apparently logged this Listing, it would appear they have plenty of fodder to make their case to Groundspeak.

 

I'd suggest letting it go also.

How am I harrassing the CO by logging a DNF?

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I've run into an owner like this. He deleted all DNF logs if he checked the cache and found that it was still there.

 

After several rounds of back and forth, I wrote to Groundspeak and my log was reinstated. I am happy to see that the OP has done that, too.

 

The "harrassment" was the result of the improper deletion, IMHO.

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Precisely my thought. It's pretty obvious where this is headed by the tone of their log entry:

 

Cache Owner Log Entry

 

They appear to be willing to bump this up to a Terms of Use violation, and with the number of times you've apparently logged this Listing, it would appear they have plenty of fodder to make their case to Groundspeak.

 

I'd suggest letting it go also.

How am I harrassing the CO by logging a DNF?

 

I know that no matter what the outcome, you are at least about to get your knuckles rapped for using the cache page as a forum with all those notes. You've reported it, now drop it. That is my suggestion, at least. Remember, too, that even "deleted" logs and edited logs are viewable by Groundspeak. Anything you say, or anything you have said (such as, "this will continue until one of us dies", I believe the wording on an earlier log was) are still there to be read.

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Precisely my thought. It's pretty obvious where this is headed by the tone of their log entry:

 

Cache Owner Log Entry

 

They appear to be willing to bump this up to a Terms of Use violation, and with the number of times you've apparently logged this Listing, it would appear they have plenty of fodder to make their case to Groundspeak.

 

I'd suggest letting it go also.

How am I harrassing the CO by logging a DNF?

 

I never said you were.

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Precisely my thought. It's pretty obvious where this is headed by the tone of their log entry:

 

Cache Owner Log Entry

 

They appear to be willing to bump this up to a Terms of Use violation, and with the number of times you've apparently logged this Listing, it would appear they have plenty of fodder to make their case to Groundspeak.

 

I'd suggest letting it go also.

How am I harrassing the CO by logging a DNF?

 

I never said you were.

I know - the CO said it in the log for which you provided a link. I'm asking how logging a DNF is harrassment.

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Precisely my thought. It's pretty obvious where this is headed by the tone of their log entry:

 

Cache Owner Log Entry

 

They appear to be willing to bump this up to a Terms of Use violation, and with the number of times you've apparently logged this Listing, it would appear they have plenty of fodder to make their case to Groundspeak.

 

I'd suggest letting it go also.

How am I harrassing the CO by logging a DNF?

 

I never said you were.

I know - the CO said it in the log for which you provided a link. I'm asking how logging a DNF is harrassment.

 

Its not. Sending several rude emails is.

 

I think there is more to this story. There are 57 DNFs on that cache, so the CO doesnt just delete DNF's willy nilly.

 

Id say you should just let it go. But its seems you are in fight mode and wont back down.

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Its not. Sending several rude emails is.

 

I think there is more to this story. There are 57 DNFs on that cache, so the CO doesnt just delete DNF's willy nilly.

 

Id say you should just let it go. But its seems you are in fight mode and wont back down.

As I already said, the CO and I despise each other. The CO got mad because I suggested it was irresponsible to place a cache a million miles away that could not be maintained. I did not know about the "old" vacation cache rules. CO deleted my DNF, I reposted it, and on and on it went. Childish, rude, nasty emails have been exchanged. CO has posted false finds to my caches, accompanied by logs that say, "This cache was stupid and I hated it." Obviously, I deleted those. I am just trying to post a real DNF, not a false find. Other than our mutual hatred of each other, I cannot understand why the CO won't allow a simple DNF.

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I wondered how long it would take for this to hit the forums.

 

I do not know if I have a copy of your original DNF log from June 2010. I might, in my old emails. I think I started "Watching" this cache before then in preparation for my own trip there. I do recall reading it and I don't think it was any more rude or angry than a lot of logs left by folks around the same time. I really do not understand why yours are deleted. I can only assume that the level of animosity between you and the CO has grown to the breaking point.

 

I feel a special connection to this cache as I am one of those that have perpetuated this grandfathered vacation cache. Before my cruise there, I researched the spot, spoke to other non-finders, as well as the CO. The cache had been lost and was scheduled for archiving, but I asked the local reviewer for a few weeks to fix it. I prepared a lock-n-lock with some goodies and a write-in-rain log book and a TB. I placed the new container in the same spot that has been re-used over and over since beach construction destroyed the original hiding spot (which was about 5 feet away).

 

Despite my pleas, the CO never updated the coordinates on the page nor updated the description, which led to later seekers being unable to find it, the coordinates were off and the description was pre-construction (they paved a dirt path). My container was muggled by the locals, who I have read would take the container and wait for tourists to look for it, offering to help them find the plastic thing for a fee (meh, after all it is Haiti). Luckily though, my TB had already moved on.

 

I still have the cache on my watchlist as it is one of my all time favorites. I fear it will soon be archived though.

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I wondered how long it would take for this to hit the forums.

 

I do not know if I have a copy of your original DNF log from June 2010. I might, in my old emails. I think I started "Watching" this cache before then in preparation for my own trip there. I do recall reading it and I don't think it was any more rude or angry than a lot of logs left by folks around the same time. I really do not understand why yours are deleted. I can only assume that the level of animosity between you and the CO has grown to the breaking point.

 

I feel a special connection to this cache as I am one of those that have perpetuated this grandfathered vacation cache. Before my cruise there, I researched the spot, spoke to other non-finders, as well as the CO. The cache had been lost and was scheduled for archiving, but I asked the local reviewer for a few weeks to fix it. I prepared a lock-n-lock with some goodies and a write-in-rain log book and a TB. I placed the new container in the same spot that has been re-used over and over since beach construction destroyed the original hiding spot (which was about 5 feet away).

 

Despite my pleas, the CO never updated the coordinates on the page nor updated the description, which led to later seekers being unable to find it, the coordinates were off and the description was pre-construction (they paved a dirt path). My container was muggled by the locals, who I have read would take the container and wait for tourists to look for it, offering to help them find the plastic thing for a fee (meh, after all it is Haiti). Luckily though, my TB had already moved on.

 

I still have the cache on my watchlist as it is one of my all time favorites. I fear it will soon be archived though.

You replaced the missing cache shortly after I was in Labadee. When I was there, the path had just been paved, and I assume the original cache was dug up or covered over. A Royal Caribbean employee saw us looking, and gave us a bit of history on the cache, the frustration of those before us, and warned us about the locals moving the cache and then offering to "help" people find it for a fee. I tried to tell the CO (and future geocachers) all of this, but my logs were always deleted. I tried emailing the CO, and got abusive responses. That pissed me off, and so began our dance of hatred. I am the first to admit it was all very childish and unnecessary, and you know from my most recent note on the cache (which will no doubt be deleted by T&T shortly) that I have decided to stop trying to log my DNF and will leave it up to the higher powers to decide whether I am allowed to or not. I am thankful for the support I received from several of the "watchers" (including you) of the cache, but since they get notification of every log, I am not going to subject them to this ongoing dispute any longer. I love geocaching, and I am not going to let a bad experience with one CO ruin it for me. As I said to you privately, even without a permanent record of my DNF, I will always remember this particular geocache, just not for the right reasons.

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I've run into an owner like this. He deleted all DNF logs if he checked the cache and found that it was still there.

 

After several rounds of back and forth, I wrote to Groundspeak and my log was reinstated. I am happy to see that the OP has done that, too.

 

The "harrassment" was the result of the improper deletion, IMHO.

 

+1

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It's a 'Grandfathered' Vacation Cache...

 

I think this is the first time I've seen this phrase used.

 

Looking at the guideline (3.9) on Grandfathered cache it talks about specific cache types (Virtual, Locationless, Webcam) but doesn't say anything about vacation caches. The guideline *does* describe Grandfathed as follows:

 

"The word "grandfathered" means to grant a special exception. More clearly, to "grandfather" something is to allow certain situations to exist based on an older rule (this is the "grandfather clause") even though a new rule is in place now."

 

I guess technically, a traditional cache placed while on vacation before the vacation guideline went into place would meet the definition, but that doesn't absolve a CO from maintaining their cache or having a maintenance plan. I'm really not suggesting that this cache or other traditional caches that were placed while traveling before the vacation guideline went into place but it might be nice to see a clarification in the guidelines.

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Its not. Sending several rude emails is.

 

I think there is more to this story. There are 57 DNFs on that cache, so the CO doesnt just delete DNF's willy nilly.

 

Id say you should just let it go. But its seems you are in fight mode and wont back down.

As I already said, the CO and I despise each other. The CO got mad because I suggested it was irresponsible to place a cache a million miles away that could not be maintained. I did not know about the "old" vacation cache rules. CO deleted my DNF, I reposted it, and on and on it went. Childish, rude, nasty emails have been exchanged. CO has posted false finds to my caches, accompanied by logs that say, "This cache was stupid and I hated it." Obviously, I deleted those. I am just trying to post a real DNF, not a false find. Other than our mutual hatred of each other, I cannot understand why the CO won't allow a simple DNF.

 

Why despise someone you don't even know based on one cache. Like knowschad said before--it's kind of making you remember your vacation in a not so pleasant way--I'm pretty sure caching is supposed to be fun--not stressful. Instead of doing what you feel is necessary by posting the DNF, let it go like others have said. You aren't losing or gaining anything by doing this (and neither is the CO). Neither party is really "right" here. Let it go and remember Haiti for the good times you had rather than not being able to log a DNF :/

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Precisely my thought. It's pretty obvious where this is headed by the tone of their log entry:

 

Cache Owner Log Entry

 

They appear to be willing to bump this up to a Terms of Use violation, and with the number of times you've apparently logged this Listing, it would appear they have plenty of fodder to make their case to Groundspeak.

 

I'd suggest letting it go also.

How am I harrassing the CO by logging a DNF?

 

I never said you were.

I know - the CO said it in the log for which you provided a link. I'm asking how logging a DNF is harrassment.

In general, I don't believe posting a DNF is harassment. However....

 

That pissed me off, and so began our dance of hatred.

 

...that's not likely to strengthen your case.

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I wonder why anyone would bring this to the forums AFTER all the childish behavior.

 

Had you come here in the beginning, we could have advised you to contact Groundspeak and ask them to reinstate your log and lock it. Then you would have clean hands and this nonsense would never have occurred.

 

But waiting until after a lot of animosity has built up and nasty emails have been exchanged doesn't make much sense. If I were Groundspeak I would slap both your hands and refuse to reinstate your log.

 

Reminds me of people who come on Judge Judy and air their grievances and it turns out both parties were acting like jerks. Normally people keep that kind of behavior to themselves; not air their dirty laundry in public.

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My big lesson of the day yesterday was, "Any response to someone upset is escalation"

 

(that was an "off forums" lesson)

 

Of course there are exceptions, and that is when the reply is only to calm that person down, but even then it may backfire.

 

You're in a heated battle now. The best response is to let it go. You can only dig yourself in deeper.

They're upset so any response is escalation.

You've got this in your teeth like a mad dog and won't let go.

 

If I were you I'd spend some serious time thinking about why this is so important to you. What is really going on here?

This isn't even a find for heaven's sake.

 

Look at the rest of your life, past and present and see if there is some other situation where you feel the same way, like someone is taking something from you can you can't let go, or whatever it is you're feeling. I think there's not only more to the story between you two, but also more to your personal story.

You don't need to share it with us. Just think about this. Why do you need to hang onto this so badly? Why are you turning this into a life and death struggle when those you've asked for advice have advised you to let go?

Maybe spend some time alone with yourself. Feel your feelings for a while and see what's going on.

 

This happens to all of us from time to time.

It certainly happened to me yesterday. Why I had to reply to that guy I'll never know. I even broke my own rule of waiting to return an email when I was upset about something someone said. I needed to let go. It's provided me with some more insight into my own human condition. Maybe this can provide some insight into yours.He indirectly called me a liar in front of a lot of people. I escalated by responding. Sometimes no response is the best response. Other times it is the only response. Responding is never good when upset. "Upset" short-circuits the brain.

Sometimes being the more mature one in a conflict is the only solution to the conflict.

I'll try to remember that one next time myself.

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Close your eyes for a minute. Feel the warm tropical sun on your skin, the ocean breeze, the sound of the surf, the sea birds crying... so peaceful and beautiful.

Now, change your mind to this futile attempt to log the fact that you were unable to find this cache. Feel the teeth clenching, the blood pressure rising, the muscles tightening up?

 

Is this giving you a nice, warm comfy feeling and adding to the wonderful memories of your trip? Somehow, I doubt it. Simply dropping the issue would be better for every aspect of your mental health and well-being.

 

And the CO would win.

 

I'd appeal it, myself.

 

Win what? Is there a prize involved that I don't know about? We're talking about a DNF log here, folks.

 

The prize is the ability to violate gc.com rules with impunity.

 

 

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You replaced the missing cache shortly after I was in Labadee. When I was there, the path had just been paved, and I assume the original cache was dug up or covered over. A Royal Caribbean employee saw us looking, and gave us a bit of history on the cache, the frustration of those before us, and warned us about the locals moving the cache and then offering to "help" people find it for a fee. I tried to tell the CO (and future geocachers) all of this, but my logs were always deleted. I tried emailing the CO, and got abusive responses. That pissed me off, and so began our dance of hatred. I am the first to admit it was all very childish and unnecessary, and you know from my most recent note on the cache (which will no doubt be deleted by T&T shortly) that I have decided to stop trying to log my DNF and will leave it up to the higher powers to decide whether I am allowed to or not. I am thankful for the support I received from several of the "watchers" (including you) of the cache, but since they get notification of every log, I am not going to subject them to this ongoing dispute any longer. I love geocaching, and I am not going to let a bad experience with one CO ruin it for me. As I said to you privately, even without a permanent record of my DNF, I will always remember this particular geocache, just not for the right reasons.

 

Let it go. You and the cache owner have buried yourselves so deep in this ridiculous dispute, there's no backing down from either of you, there's no "win" to be had by either of you, so why is this worth being consumed by such negativity?

 

Geocaching is the last thing I think of when I hear "Haiti". To read about a "vacation cache" that only cruise ship visitors can even attempt to locate and to read all this energy spent over a stupid box is disheartening. Honestly, did any of the participants in this temper tantrum give one thought to the citizens of the country? Try to imagine yourself in their place?

 

ugh. It's a throw-down cache that you didn't find. Get over it and move on, please.

 

IBTL

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Close your eyes for a minute. Feel the warm tropical sun on your skin, the ocean breeze, the sound of the surf, the sea birds crying... so peaceful and beautiful.

Now, change your mind to this futile attempt to log the fact that you were unable to find this cache. Feel the teeth clenching, the blood pressure rising, the muscles tightening up?

 

Is this giving you a nice, warm comfy feeling and adding to the wonderful memories of your trip? Somehow, I doubt it. Simply dropping the issue would be better for every aspect of your mental health and well-being.

 

And the CO would win.

 

I'd appeal it, myself.

 

Win what? Is there a prize involved that I don't know about? We're talking about a DNF log here, folks.

 

The prize is the ability to violate gc.com rules with impunity.

 

Meh.

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Geocaching is the last thing I think of when I hear "Haiti". To read about a "vacation cache" that only cruise ship visitors can even attempt to locate and to read all this energy spent over a stupid box is disheartening. Honestly, did any of the participants in this temper tantrum give one thought to the citizens of the country? Try to imagine yourself in their place?

 

ugh. It's a throw-down cache that you didn't find. Get over it and move on, please.

 

IBTL

 

Ummm, actually I did think of the local residents. I placed significant amounts of US currency into the hands of many of them there.

Not to make this a political thread about Haiti, but the Royal Caribean facility there brings in a lot of money, jobs for those in the surrounding area and in the immediate aftermath of the earthquake, humanitarian aid through a shipping port that was still operating after Port au Prince was damaged.

 

Oh, and at least one local turned geocaching into a business venture, hijacking the cache and offering the help tourists find it for a small fee.

 

 

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It's a 'Grandfathered' Vacation Cache...

 

I think this is the first time I've seen this phrase used.

 

Looking at the guideline (3.9) on Grandfathered cache it talks about specific cache types (Virtual, Locationless, Webcam) but doesn't say anything about vacation caches. The guideline *does* describe Grandfathed as follows:

 

"The word "grandfathered" means to grant a special exception. More clearly, to "grandfather" something is to allow certain situations to exist based on an older rule (this is the "grandfather clause") even though a new rule is in place now."

 

I guess technically, a traditional cache placed while on vacation before the vacation guideline went into place would meet the definition, but that doesn't absolve a CO from maintaining their cache or having a maintenance plan. I'm really not suggesting that this cache or other traditional caches that were placed while traveling before the vacation guideline went into place but it might be nice to see a clarification in the guidelines.

 

 

Grandfathered is how the local reviewer referred to it.

It was indeed placed prior to the rules specifically against "vacation" caches (caches placed by people on vacation). I guess a lot of vacation caches just became geo-litter after a while. This one has lived on due to the efforts of cruise passengers.

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It's a 'Grandfathered' Vacation Cache...

 

I think this is the first time I've seen this phrase used.

 

Looking at the guideline (3.9) on Grandfathered cache it talks about specific cache types (Virtual, Locationless, Webcam) but doesn't say anything about vacation caches. The guideline *does* describe Grandfathed as follows:

 

"The word "grandfathered" means to grant a special exception. More clearly, to "grandfather" something is to allow certain situations to exist based on an older rule (this is the "grandfather clause") even though a new rule is in place now."

 

I guess technically, a traditional cache placed while on vacation before the vacation guideline went into place would meet the definition, but that doesn't absolve a CO from maintaining their cache or having a maintenance plan. I'm really not suggesting that this cache or other traditional caches that were placed while traveling before the vacation guideline went into place but it might be nice to see a clarification in the guidelines.

 

 

Grandfathered is how the local reviewer referred to it.

It was indeed placed prior to the rules specifically against "vacation" caches (caches placed by people on vacation). I guess a lot of vacation caches just became geo-litter after a while. This one has lived on due to the efforts of cruise passengers.

 

You mean cruise passengers that are also geocachers...

 

I have found quite a few grandfathered caches myself, as well as caches that essentially maintained by the community. I'm thinking of one particular CO that placed quite a few caches in 2002/2003 all over the world. 40 of them are traditionals. I've only found one of them (and one of his virtuals) but most of them appear to be in some pretty spectacular, but occasionally remote locations.

 

We've seen a precedent for the archiving of grandfathered caches when they're not maintained (the guidelines indicate that maintaining the cache page and logs is part of maintenance). The most infamous example is the Four Windows cache which allowed people to armchair log it without impunity. I guess, technically, there are a lot of caches that are grandfathered simply because they were placed before there was a specific guideline in place that would prevent it from being published today. However, in the case of a vacation cache, if the CO is still active, but doesn't live in the area, shouldn't they at least come up with a maintenance plan a bit more solid than "It's doubtful that we'll ever be able to maintain this one, so please bring some spare baggies & a pencil to leave just in case."

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I wonder why anyone would bring this to the forums AFTER all the childish behavior.

 

Had you come here in the beginning, we could have advised you to contact Groundspeak and ask them to reinstate your log and lock it. Then you would have clean hands and this nonsense would never have occurred.

 

But waiting until after a lot of animosity has built up and nasty emails have been exchanged doesn't make much sense. If I were Groundspeak I would slap both your hands and refuse to reinstate your log.

 

Reminds me of people who come on Judge Judy and air their grievances and it turns out both parties were acting like jerks. Normally people keep that kind of behavior to themselves; not air their dirty laundry in public.

If I could turn back time, I would do things differently. Until I figure out how to do that, I am stuck with the consequences of my admittedly childish behaviour. I stated several posts back that I have turned it over to Groundspeak and they can deal with it as they see fit. If they reinstate my DNF, great. If not, I'm sure I will still have a full and happy life, and I will continue to go geocaching every chance I get.

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I wonder why anyone would bring this to the forums AFTER all the childish behavior.

 

Had you come here in the beginning, we could have advised you to contact Groundspeak and ask them to reinstate your log and lock it. Then you would have clean hands and this nonsense would never have occurred.

 

But waiting until after a lot of animosity has built up and nasty emails have been exchanged doesn't make much sense. If I were Groundspeak I would slap both your hands and refuse to reinstate your log.

 

Reminds me of people who come on Judge Judy and air their grievances and it turns out both parties were acting like jerks. Normally people keep that kind of behavior to themselves; not air their dirty laundry in public.

If I could turn back time, I would do things differently. Until I figure out how to do that, I am stuck with the consequences of my admittedly childish behaviour. I stated several posts back that I have turned it over to Groundspeak and they can deal with it as they see fit. If they reinstate my DNF, great. If not, I'm sure I will still have a full and happy life, and I will continue to go geocaching every chance I get.

 

For what its worth, I appreciate you admitting publically to the part that you played in this.

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It's a 'Grandfathered' Vacation Cache...

 

I think this is the first time I've seen this phrase used.

 

Looking at the guideline (3.9) on Grandfathered cache it talks about specific cache types (Virtual, Locationless, Webcam) but doesn't say anything about vacation caches. The guideline *does* describe Grandfathed as follows:

 

"The word "grandfathered" means to grant a special exception. More clearly, to "grandfather" something is to allow certain situations to exist based on an older rule (this is the "grandfather clause") even though a new rule is in place now."

 

I guess technically, a traditional cache placed while on vacation before the vacation guideline went into place would meet the definition, but that doesn't absolve a CO from maintaining their cache or having a maintenance plan. I'm really not suggesting that this cache or other traditional caches that were placed while traveling before the vacation guideline went into place but it might be nice to see a clarification in the guidelines.

 

 

Grandfathered is how the local reviewer referred to it.

It was indeed placed prior to the rules specifically against "vacation" caches (caches placed by people on vacation). I guess a lot of vacation caches just became geo-litter after a while. This one has lived on due to the efforts of cruise passengers.

 

You mean cruise passengers that are also geocachers...

 

I have found quite a few grandfathered caches myself, as well as caches that essentially maintained by the community. I'm thinking of one particular CO that placed quite a few caches in 2002/2003 all over the world. 40 of them are traditionals. I've only found one of them (and one of his virtuals) but most of them appear to be in some pretty spectacular, but occasionally remote locations.

 

We've seen a precedent for the archiving of grandfathered caches when they're not maintained (the guidelines indicate that maintaining the cache page and logs is part of maintenance). The most infamous example is the Four Windows cache which allowed people to armchair log it without impunity. I guess, technically, there are a lot of caches that are grandfathered simply because they were placed before there was a specific guideline in place that would prevent it from being published today. However, in the case of a vacation cache, if the CO is still active, but doesn't live in the area, shouldn't they at least come up with a maintenance plan a bit more solid than "It's doubtful that we'll ever be able to maintain this one, so please bring some spare baggies & a pencil to leave just in case."

 

Yes, I mean visitors who happen to passengers on a particular cruise line and also happen to be cachers. Looking at the logs, there are plenty of them. There were a few on the ship I was on, although I never seemed to catch up with them (5,000 people on board).

 

Honestly, the fact that there was such an old cache located on Labadee beach was one of my deciding factors in choosing this cruise line over another. The rest of the stops on the cruise were standard places, Jamaica, Cayman, Mexico.

 

The CO in this instance seems to have no maintenance plan, but the cache seems to be self sustaining.

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The most infamous example is the Four Windows cache which allowed people to armchair log it without impunity.

I got the sense that it was less that they were allowing armchair logs, and more that the cache itself didn't really fit the guidelines in a fundamental sense (unless there was actually an expectation that people visit N 90°).

 

In other words, I don't think it was that the cache page wasn't being maintained. It's just that it was a riddle, not a cache, and Groundspeak decided to archive it before it got to 10,000 Found It logs.

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I wonder why anyone would bring this to the forums AFTER all the childish behavior.

 

Had you come here in the beginning, we could have advised you to contact Groundspeak and ask them to reinstate your log and lock it. Then you would have clean hands and this nonsense would never have occurred.

 

But waiting until after a lot of animosity has built up and nasty emails have been exchanged doesn't make much sense. If I were Groundspeak I would slap both your hands and refuse to reinstate your log.

 

Reminds me of people who come on Judge Judy and air their grievances and it turns out both parties were acting like jerks. Normally people keep that kind of behavior to themselves; not air their dirty laundry in public.

If I could turn back time, I would do things differently. Until I figure out how to do that, I am stuck with the consequences of my admittedly childish behaviour. I stated several posts back that I have turned it over to Groundspeak and they can deal with it as they see fit. If they reinstate my DNF, great. If not, I'm sure I will still have a full and happy life, and I will continue to go geocaching every chance I get.

 

For what its worth, I appreciate you admitting publically to the part that you played in this.

 

That's great and all. But by the time he brought it here there wasn't much any of us could do to help. All he accomplished was to make a lot more people privy to the whole sordid affair.

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For what its worth, I appreciate you admitting publically to the part that you played in this.

 

+1

 

I sincerely wish you the best of luck with Groundspeak. Sometime pulling the "mea culpa" is best, particularly with a difficult Cache Owner. I suspect that due to the lack of a viable maintenance plan, the cache will eventually get Archived....then again, there is the Entrepreneurial Locals trying to make a buck off the unfortunate cachers who stumble across this one....that is just too funny in my book ( against the Guidelines I'm sure, but still pretty funny) :laughing:

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the cache will eventually get Archived....then again, there is the Entrepreneurial Locals trying to make a buck off the unfortunate cachers who stumble across this one....that is just too funny in my book ( against the Guidelines I'm sure, but still pretty funny) :laughing:

 

The fact that they all carry machetes and seem to just appear out of now where as you walk down a wooded path can be disconcerting to say the least.

 

 

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If I were you I'd spend some serious time thinking about why this is so important to you. What is really going on here?

Nothing really deep or mysterious. I'm just an anal-retentive perfectionist who works in law enforcement :)

 

Just wondering what working in law enforcement has to do w anything?

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If I were you I'd spend some serious time thinking about why this is so important to you. What is really going on here?

Nothing really deep or mysterious. I'm just an anal-retentive perfectionist who works in law enforcement :)

Better not go 61 in a 60mph zone while you're on duty, huh? :lol:

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