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Labadee Beach cache - CO won't let me log DNF


Jaybeee
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Hey, we'll take what we can get.

 

Cool, we managed to get 3 pages out of this. Not too shabby!

I know! Who knew my silly situation could attract so much interest? Not only did we get 3 pages, but I got my DNF. This is the best day ever!

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Hey, we'll take what we can get.

 

Cool, we managed to get 3 pages out of this. Not too shabby!

I know! Who knew my silly situation could attract so much interest? Not only did we get 3 pages, but I got my DNF. This is the best day ever!

If Erick will just archive the cache you'll the trifecta!

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Sorry, Jaybee. 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

Huh? What didn't I get? My DNF was reinstated and the CO has finally taken responsibility for the cache and updated the coordinates. That's all I wanted.

 

I thought karinagw was the one pushing for the coordinates to be updated.

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And I guess we get to carry on WITH you. Thanks for sticking it out. This thread is so much more interesting with you in it.

Well, that's certainly true. Sadly though, I just don't have as much time to spend here as the rest of you. I'll check in now and then to see if anything interesting is happening.

 

He was right about the name calling thing, by the way. You were in the wrong there, from what I saw. You could be better than that.

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I thought karinagw was the one pushing for the coordinates to be updated.

Here's a brief history of my involvement with this cache. When I was in Labadee, the path had just been paved, and the cache was obviously gone. I posted a DNF and notified the CO that the area had been reconstructed and the cache could not possibly be where it used to be. I said he should either update the coordinates (if the cache was moved) or archive the cache (if the cache was gone). He got pissy and just deleted my DNF and my notes. And so it began...

 

I'm glad the coordinates have been updated, and I hope there really is a cache there. I suspect this cache will continue to be a problem, not just because of the CO, but because of the location. Hopefully future cache seekers will read the history and be prepared to be disappointed. My advice would be not to spend a whole lot of time on it. If they find it, great. If not, enjoy the other activities in Labadee. As I've said before, this experience changed the way I geocache on vacation. Vacation time is much too precious to waste on non-existent caches with outdated coordinates. Fortunately, I have a better GPS now than I did then - this one downloads all the logs. If I had all that history with me in Labadee, I wouldn't have spent the amount of time I did looking for the cache.

 

But I still don't understand why the CO kept deleting my DNF... That remains a mystery!

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He was right about the name calling thing, by the way. You were in the wrong there, from what I saw. You could be better than that.

I'm sure he was right, but I didn't call anybody a name.

 

Yes you did. But I've been called worse and I've called others worse. Just figured you would like to be updated on the rules so you didn't get yourself banned calling someone with thinner skin an idiot.

 

Although I'm flattered by your interest in my thread, you'll have to carry on without me. I appreciate the real advice I got, but now that the idiots are crawling out of the woodwork, it's time to get back to my real life. Happy caching!

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Sorry, Jaybee. 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
Huh? What didn't I get? My DNF was reinstated and the CO has finally taken responsibility for the cache and updated the coordinates. That's all I wanted.
  1. ...we managed to get 3 pages out of this...
  2. ...I got my DNF...
  3. If Erick will just archive the cache you'll the trifecta!

He was saying that you only got two of the three in the "trifecta" and in doing so, implying that one of your goals was to get the cache archived.

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Sorry, Jaybee. 2 out of 3 ain't bad.
Huh? What didn't I get? My DNF was reinstated and the CO has finally taken responsibility for the cache and updated the coordinates. That's all I wanted.
  1. ...we managed to get 3 pages out of this...
  2. ...I got my DNF...
  3. If Erick will just archive the cache you'll the trifecta!

He was saying that you only got two of the three in the "trifecta" and in doing so, implying that one of your goals was to get the cache archived.

Avenois may have thought that one of my goals was to get the cache archived, but it wasn't. As I have stated repeatedly, I just wanted to log my DNF.

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I'm sure he was right, but I didn't call anybody a name.

 

Yes you did. But I've been called worse and I've called others worse. Just figured you would like to be updated on the rules so you didn't get yourself banned calling someone with thinner skin an idiot.

 

Although I'm flattered by your interest in my thread, you'll have to carry on without me. I appreciate the real advice I got, but now that the idiots are crawling out of the woodwork, it's time to get back to my real life. Happy caching!

This is name-calling: "Avenois, you are a stupid-head!" Saying that "idiots are crawling out of the woodwork" is simply stating an opinion.

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I'm sure he was right, but I didn't call anybody a name.

 

Yes you did. But I've been called worse and I've called others worse. Just figured you would like to be updated on the rules so you didn't get yourself banned calling someone with thinner skin an idiot.

 

Although I'm flattered by your interest in my thread, you'll have to carry on without me. I appreciate the real advice I got, but now that the idiots are crawling out of the woodwork, it's time to get back to my real life. Happy caching!

This is name-calling: "Avenois, you are a stupid-head!" Saying that "idiots are crawling out of the woodwork" is simply stating an opinion.

The mods would likely disagree with you on that.

 

BTW, I was kind of looking forward to seeing that cache archived too. I think it is a prime example of why vacation caches should not be allowed. I doubt the CO could keep an active cache there even if he lived there due to the locals constantly holding it hostage. He definitely can't maintain it when he rarely travels there.

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This is name-calling: "Avenois, you are a stupid-head!" Saying that "idiots are crawling out of the woodwork" is simply stating an opinion.

I think in general, if we find we're relying too much on very, very fine semantic debates, it's probably worth the effort to find another way to say what we're trying to say. "It's only my opinion that these people are idiots" is a bit of an eyebrow-archer.

 

When it's a close call, taking the high road is never a bad idea.

 

I'm glad your DNF got reinstated though. And I've found another interesting cache to add to my watchlist. The logs have been kind of a hoot lately - from lots of different folks. The one from an East Coast cacher calling the reviewer a coward and daring people to delete the log really elevated the discussion, I thought.

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I'm sure he was right, but I didn't call anybody a name.

 

Yes you did. But I've been called worse and I've called others worse. Just figured you would like to be updated on the rules so you didn't get yourself banned calling someone with thinner skin an idiot.

 

Although I'm flattered by your interest in my thread, you'll have to carry on without me. I appreciate the real advice I got, but now that the idiots are crawling out of the woodwork, it's time to get back to my real life. Happy caching!

This is name-calling: "Avenois, you are a stupid-head!" Saying that "idiots are crawling out of the woodwork" is simply stating an opinion.

The mods would likely disagree with you on that.

 

BTW, I was kind of looking forward to seeing that cache archived too. I think it is a prime example of why vacation caches should not be allowed. I doubt the CO could keep an active cache there even if he lived there due to the locals constantly holding it hostage. He definitely can't maintain it when he rarely travels there.

 

As I see it, this is a vacation cache placed prior to the "vacation cache" guideline, thus gets grandfathered status. The problem, to me, is not that it's a vacation cache, but that it doesn't have a solid maintenance plan even though the CO is active. As a result, the cache has not always been adequately maintained. I'm happy to see that the cache is active again, but if it was archived it should be done not because it's a vacation cache, but because it's not adequately maintained.

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I think in general, if we find we're relying too much on very, very fine semantic debates, it's probably worth the effort to find another way to say what we're trying to say. "It's only my opinion that these people are idiots" is a bit of an eyebrow-archer.

 

When it's a close call, taking the high road is never a bad idea.

 

I'm glad your DNF got reinstated though. And I've found another interesting cache to add to my watchlist. The logs have been kind of a hoot lately - from lots of different folks. The one from an East Coast cacher calling the reviewer a coward and daring people to delete the log really elevated the discussion, I thought.

Okay, I take back "idiots." Replace it with "people who have no interest in contributing anything meaningful to the original discussion and post inflammatory comments with the sole purpose of starting a flame war."

 

This is an interesting cache to watch. I doubt that I will ever get another chance to find it, but I wish future cachers the best of luck.

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As I see it, this is a vacation cache placed prior to the "vacation cache" guideline, thus gets grandfathered status. The problem, to me, is not that it's a vacation cache, but that it doesn't have a solid maintenance plan even though the CO is active. As a result, the cache has not always been adequately maintained. I'm happy to see that the cache is active again, but if it was archived it should be done not because it's a vacation cache, but because it's not adequately maintained.

I hope people are able to find it. Their time in Labadee is short, and it's frustrating to spend valuable vacation time looking for a non-existent cache or in the wrong location. From reading all the logs on this cache, it looks like there have been several caches over the years, sometimes two caches, sometimes no caches. The "new" coordinates seem to be for a cache that has gone missing. It's not clear whether any cache exists at this point. The CO exists, but is not "active," and all but two of his caches have been archived. I think this cache will continue to be a problem.

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I see that the coordinates have finally been updated and the cache has been re-enabled. The cache owner must have had problems with another cacher as well. I'm sure he isn't referring to Jaybeee, because Jaybeee only wanted his DNF log. This cacher apparently logged a Found It on a DNF:

 

All this drama stemmed from one particular cacher that insisted on logging this cache as 'found' when they did not find it last year, then started up the same attack here recently.
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I see that the coordinates have finally been updated and the cache has been re-enabled. The cache owner must have had problems with another cacher as well. I'm sure he isn't referring to Jaybeee, because Jaybeee only wanted his DNF log. This cacher apparently logged a Found It on a DNF:

 

All this drama stemmed from one particular cacher that insisted on logging this cache as 'found' when they did not find it last year, then started up the same attack here recently.

I think the CO is still talking about me. I tried to log it as a DNF in May 2010, because I did not find it. The CO deleted my several attempts to log the DNF, so I tried logging it as a find, just to see what would happen. He deleted that too, which was fine because I didn't find it. When some more DNFs were logged recently, I decided to try again with my DNF. Again the CO kept deleting my DNF logs. Now that my DNF has been reinstated, it appears that my "find" was reinstated too. The CO seems to have forgotten that the real issue was that he wouldn't let me log my DNF.

Edited by Jaybeee
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I see that the coordinates have finally been updated and the cache has been re-enabled. The cache owner must have had problems with another cacher as well. I'm sure he isn't referring to Jaybeee, because Jaybeee only wanted his DNF log. This cacher apparently logged a Found It on a DNF:

 

All this drama stemmed from one particular cacher that insisted on logging this cache as 'found' when they did not find it last year, then started up the same attack here recently.

I think the CO is still talking about me. I tried to log it as a DNF in May 2010, because I did not find it. The CO deleted my several attempts to log the DNF, so I tried logging it as a find, just to see what would happen. He deleted that too, which was fine because I didn't find it. When some more DNFs were logged recently, I decided to try again with my DNF. Again the CO kept deleting my DNF logs. Now that my DNF has been reinstated, it appears that my "find" was reinstated too. The CO seems to have forgotten that the real issue was that he wouldn't let me log my DNF.

 

 

I honestly think that many of the "found it" logs on this cache are placed without finding a container or log, or perhaps via a throwdown. Of course there is no way to know since, a) the container is so often muggled and B) there is no-one to audit the logs.

 

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But if the logger admits to not finding ...

 

Then they are opening a can of worms. But at least they are honest and I applaud them for them.

 

I didn't find one last week. No one had looked for it in over a year. I could have said I found it but I didn't. In fact, from my description of it, the CO archived it. Sometimes I wonder if I should have "finded" it, but am glad I didn't.

 

 

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I honestly think that many of the "found it" logs on this cache are placed without finding a container or log, or perhaps via a throwdown. Of course there is no way to know since, a) the container is so often muggled and B) there is no-one to audit the logs.

I can totally understand people logging this one as a find when the cache is missing. They did all the work required to find it (including taking a 7-day Caribbean cruise), but the cache wasn't there. Given the location, it's unlikely that many people will get a second chance to really find it. It's the only reasonable opportunity people have to find a cache in Haiti, and it's nice to have Haiti show up in the list of countries where they have geocached.

 

In my area, there have been a couple of caches I didn't find because the containers were muggled (if you consider bears to be muggles). When I logged my DNF, the cache owners replaced the caches. Then they gave me permission to log them as finds if I wanted to. I chose not to, because I could go back and truly find the caches once they were replaced. That's not the case with this one in Haiti. I suggested to the CO that as a courtesy, he could let people log the find when the container isn't there, but he just deleted my message.

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Bonus Find! Perhaps you've accidentally stumbled upon a new numbers pumping scheme.

 

It's probably too time consuming for most but carries the added benefit of being impervious to deletion.

I don't care about my numbers. It's just nice to have a record of geocaching in Haiti. Some people keep a journal to remember their travels - I just look at my geocaching stats.

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I hope people are able to find it. Their time in Labadee is short, and it's frustrating to spend valuable vacation time looking for a non-existent cache or in the wrong location.

 

Although Labadee is a private resort (which makes me wonder how the entrepreneurial young kids muggling the cache are doing it) , not everyone visiting Haiti is coming in on a cruise ship. In fact, I would probably more likely visit the country on business than via a cruise ship as I do quite a bit work in international agriculture information system with an increasing amount of work in Latin American/Caribbean. If I did get the chance to visit Haiti I might get a chance to grab one of the three available FTF opportunities (out of 8 caches in the country).

 

From reading all the logs on this cache, it looks like there have been several caches over the years, sometimes two caches, sometimes no caches. The "new" coordinates seem to be for a cache that has gone missing. It's not clear whether any cache exists at this point. The CO exists, but is not "active," and all but two of his caches have been archived. I think this cache will continue to be a problem.

 

I was thinking of "active" as in "is currently still logging into the site" and not whether they're still actively finding or hiding caches.

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I honestly think that many of the "found it" logs on this cache are placed without finding a container or log, or perhaps via a throwdown. Of course there is no way to know since, a) the container is so often muggled and B) there is no-one to audit the logs.

I can totally understand people logging this one as a find when the cache is missing. They did all the work required to find it (including taking a 7-day Caribbean cruise), but the cache wasn't there. Given the location, it's unlikely that many people will get a second chance to really find it. It's the only reasonable opportunity people have to find a cache in Haiti, and it's nice to have Haiti show up in the list of countries where they have geocached.

 

In my area, there have been a couple of caches I didn't find because the containers were muggled (if you consider bears to be muggles). When I logged my DNF, the cache owners replaced the caches. Then they gave me permission to log them as finds if I wanted to. I chose not to, because I could go back and truly find the caches once they were replaced. That's not the case with this one in Haiti. I suggested to the CO that as a courtesy, he could let people log the find when the container isn't there, but he just deleted my message.

That's what is so great about this thread. The longer it goes on the more insight we get into this quarrel.

 

So as far as you're concerned this could really just be treated as a defacto virtual. I'd delete your message too if you suggested that I just let people log finds when the container wasn't there. But then again, I wouldn't have a cache where the container was continually missing either.

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Although Labadee is a private resort (which makes me wonder how the entrepreneurial young kids muggling the cache are doing it) , not everyone visiting Haiti is coming in on a cruise ship. In fact, I would probably more likely visit the country on business than via a cruise ship as I do quite a bit work in international agriculture information system with an increasing amount of work in Latin American/Caribbean. If I did get the chance to visit Haiti I might get a chance to grab one of the three available FTF opportunities (out of 8 caches in the country).

Labadee is a private resort that is leased to Royal Caribbean International. I could be wrong, but I think the only tourists permitted to visit Labadee are arriving by cruise ship. Most of the locals are employed by Royal Caribbean. The resort area is fenced off from the surrounding area, and passengers are not permitted to leave the property. I believe this is the only cache in Haiti that cruise passengers can access. You would have to visit Haiti some other way to do the rest of the caches in the country, but then you wouldn't be able to go to Labadee.

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Bonus Find! Perhaps you've accidentally stumbled upon a new numbers pumping scheme.

 

It's probably too time consuming for most but carries the added benefit of being impervious to deletion.

I don't care about my numbers. It's just nice to have a record of geocaching in Haiti. Some people keep a journal to remember their travels - I just look at my geocaching stats.

 

In that case, I'm sure you have contacted Groundspeak to have them remove this bogus find since they also reinstated your real DNF.

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So as far as you're concerned this could really just be treated as a defacto virtual. I'd delete your message too if you suggested that I just let people log finds when the container wasn't there. But then again, I wouldn't have a cache where the container was continually missing either.

As I tried to explain, this is a courtesy that has been extended by local COs when containers have gone missing. I see now that I am very fortunate to live where I do.

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In that case, I'm sure you have contacted Groundspeak to have them remove this bogus find since they also reinstated your real DNF.

No, I haven't.

 

Why not. Isn't it a bit dishonest considering that this CO definitely does NOT condone the logging of bogus finds?

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So you're ok with logging a dishonest find so long as it bothers me and the CO?

Dishonest? To whom? How does a false find (mine or anyone else's) impact your life or the CO's life in a negative way? How about a dishonest geocache that a CO claims is at a specific point, but really isn't? How about a CO who knows his cache is missing and/or his coordinates are wrong, yet refuses to do anything about it?

 

As an aside, I did not know that my false find would be reinstated. I may or may not delete it. Either way, I don't see why it should bother you.

Edited by Jaybeee
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So you're ok with logging a dishonest find so long as it bothers me and the CO?

Dishonest? To whom? How does a false find (mine or anyone else's) impact your life or the CO's life in a negative way? How about a dishonest geocache that a CO claims is at a specific point, but really isn't? How about a CO who knows his cache is missing and/or his coordinates are wrong, yet refuses to do anything about it?

 

As an aside, I did not know that my false find would be reinstated. I may or may not delete it. Either way, I don't see why it should bother you.

 

It just speaks to your character.

 

I've been back and forth on this issue in my mind. On one hand I am glad you got your real DNF reinstated. On the other hand, the more you write, the more I understand why the CO responded to you the way he did. I didn't see the original DNF, but I can only imagine based on what you have posted in this thread that the CO probably had good reason to delete it. I'm beginning to think that you really don't deserve to have it reinstated. But since I haven't seen all the logs, it's not a judgment call I am qualified to make. (not that I have that authority anyway)

 

As far as a dishonest geocache that a CO claims is to be one place when it really isn't, post an NA log. Let the reviewer deal with it as Erick did. Disabling the cache seems to have been a pretty good motivator for the CO to update the coordinates.

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Yep. Likely the most pointless post in the thread thus far.

But you just can't keep yourself from responding.

I'm not sure I get your point.

 

I've stated a number of times that I am enjoying this thread. Why wouldn't I respond?

 

You, on the other hand, have stated you were done but can't seem to keep from responding.

Edited by Avenois
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It just speaks to your character.

 

I've been back and forth on this issue in my mind. On one hand I am glad you got your real DNF reinstated. On the other hand, the more you write, the more I understand why the CO responded to you the way he did. I didn't see the original DNF, but I can only imagine based on what you have posted in this thread that the CO probably had good reason to delete it. I'm beginning to think that you really don't deserve to have it reinstated. But since I haven't seen all the logs, it's not a judgment call I am qualified to make. (not that I have that authority anyway)

 

As far as a dishonest geocache that a CO claims is to be one place when it really isn't, post an NA log. Let the reviewer deal with it as Erick did. Disabling the cache seems to have been a pretty good motivator for the CO to update the coordinates.

Well, I have an opinion of your character as well, and it's no better than your opinion of mine. However, the impact of your character on my life is minimal.

 

You do realize that the reason this cache got reviewed is because I brought it to Groundspeak's attention, don't you? That is why the reviewer dealt with it, and that is why the CO has updated the coordinates. I got my DNF reinstated, and others might be able to find the cache. That's all I wanted.

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