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I think the point was that as GPS units have moved out of the woods and into the urban environment, so have all the multitude of uses for GPS units. Urban environment = generally assumed that micros are the better fit, in most situations.

 

Do I get a gold star for the day?

I'm not sure about a gold star, but I think I can provide a paper triangle. Will that do?

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When I returned from my little, "hissy fit" I got no warm welcoming! :ph34r: :ph34r:

I'm not sure equating pinehurst coming back with the rapture is exactly warm welcome.

 

Now, Vinny, that's a whole different enchilada.

 

:o Vinny's an enchilada??? That explains a lot!!! :o

micro threads are for ice analogies, not enchilada analogies.

 

Now an ice cream echilada ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chocolate-Tortilla-Ice-Cream-Enchilada.jpg

 

What flavor is it? :unsure:

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I always thought the GPS was supposed to show me where I am, not where to go.

I bought my first GPS after getting lost hiking. I had a topo map and compass, but the terrain was hard to read and it took me a while to find my way back to the trail. I wasn't even sure where I had left the trail.

 

With a GPS I can see where I am on a map and see where the trail is and find a way to get back to the trail so I'm not lost. I agree that the early adopters of Geocaching used GPS units to tell them where they were.

 

However many people now buy a GPS to navigate on unknown streets. When in a unfamiliar area they can look up an address or a point of interest and the GPS unit will show then the route to drive. This also true of smart phones with GPS location. People use them to get instructions how to get somewhere.

 

Geocaching seems to be more related to navigation. You see where a cache is located and use the GPS to get to that spot. The idea behind Geocaching is that the GPS knows where you are to about 10 meters. Once you get to within about 10 meters of the cache, you're on your own. You have used the GPS to navigate to the cache location and now you must find where it is hidden. Whether you navigate to a corner of a parking lot or to some spot in the woods 100 feet off the trail, you used the GPS to navigate there.

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And another thing; why is it that micros and nanos are hidden where there are perfectly good spots for a larger cache? I know, it's about the numbers. Oh well.

Just curious,how is putting a micro where there is a spot for a larger cache all about the numbers? It's one find whether it's a micro or an ammo can. Dont see how you run your numbers up there.

 

Well, you probably got them there. What they're more likely talking about is hiding say a micro on a guardrail 25 feet from the parking coordinates, when they could have gone 500 feet down the trail and hidden a lock-n-lock or ammo can. Seen that more than a few times. :o

 

I've also seen many o' micros hidden in spots where a larger trading cache could have easily been hidden. That, in most cases I've seen, appears to be simply because it cost next to nothing to put out a micro, as opposed to a trading and/or Travel Bug friendly cache. I couldn't care less about the swag and trading, but we do have these Travel Bug things floating around. A few million of them, I would imagine. :P

But just because there's a spot big/good enough for a larger cache, why should one be hidden there? You could also say the same of the opposite...maybe there's a spot with an ammo can and some may think, This would have been a great spot for a micro. You may prefer walking 500 feet down the trail to find an ammo can, but others will prefer to find that micro. Personally I enjoy both types. There's been plenty of times when a fairly easy P&G micro was a welcome relief after bushwacking through dense overgrowth. And think of it this way, those micros on the guardrail 25 feet from parking give many people the opportunity to play who otherwise couldn't if it were hidden out in the woods or other areas inaccessible to them.

 

It makes the find more rewarding if it takes some time to work out and the hide is clever. I have never found a lock and lock and thought, 'Wow! That was a really nicely hidden' because they aren't.

It's all a matter of perception. Maybe it was just a plain ole lock n lock under a fallen tree (very common) but it was in a location with a great scenic view. Many times it's the location that makes it worthwhile. Or a dime a dozen tupperware container, but concealed with some great, creative camo. So it's possible for even the most common larger containers to make it a great experience.

 

I'd like to see less micro & nanos. I cache with my 8yr old son and while he likes the hunt, he LOVES the swag! I think part of the reason that we're seeing more small caches is that it is a bigger challenge for the old-time cachers.

It's funny you say that because many of the "old timers" (in the forums at least) say the proliferation of micros is because of newcomers.

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And another thing; why is it that micros and nanos are hidden where there are perfectly good spots for a larger cache? I know, it's about the numbers. Oh well.

Just curious,how is putting a micro where there is a spot for a larger cache all about the numbers? It's one find whether it's a micro or an ammo can. Dont see how you run your numbers up there.

 

Well, you probably got them there. What they're more likely talking about is hiding say a micro on a guardrail 25 feet from the parking coordinates, when they could have gone 500 feet down the trail and hidden a lock-n-lock or ammo can. Seen that more than a few times. :o

 

I've also seen many o' micros hidden in spots where a larger trading cache could have easily been hidden. That, in most cases I've seen, appears to be simply because it cost next to nothing to put out a micro, as opposed to a trading and/or Travel Bug friendly cache. I couldn't care less about the swag and trading, but we do have these Travel Bug things floating around. A few million of them, I would imagine. :P

But just because there's a spot big/good enough for a larger cache, why should one be hidden there? You could also say the same of the opposite...maybe there's a spot with an ammo can and some may think, This would have been a great spot for a micro. You may prefer walking 500 feet down the trail to find an ammo can, but others will prefer to find that micro. Personally I enjoy both types. There's been plenty of times when a fairly easy P&G micro was a welcome relief after bushwacking through dense overgrowth. And think of it this way, those micros on the guardrail 25 feet from parking give many people the opportunity to play who otherwise couldn't if it were hidden out in the woods or other areas inaccessible to them.

 

Micros at a trailhead sounds good for the extremely small minority of mobility impaired cachers and all, I agree. But how do you explain the accounts with 1,000+ hides of rural roadside micros in your state (Illinois)? You think those things were placed with mobility impaired cachers in mind? Puh-lease. :D

Edited by Mr.Yuck
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When I returned from my little, "hissy fit" I got no warm welcoming! :ph34r: :ph34r:

I'm not sure equating pinehurst coming back with the rapture is exactly warm welcome.

 

Now, Vinny, that's a whole different enchilada.

 

:o Vinny's an enchilada??? That explains a lot!!! :o

micro threads are for ice analogies, not enchilada analogies.

 

Now an ice cream echilada ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chocolate-Tortilla-Ice-Cream-Enchilada.jpg

 

If you leave out the strawberries I will eat it! :mmraspberry:

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I did my micro, because I found a neat little spot and a micro seemed like the best way to hide it without drawing the eye of a muggle. I'll admit, it's not an interesting hide really. No gimmicks or anything (although I did improve the way it's secured thanks to a post on these forums) but those caches aren't really why do it. I doubt I'll ever make a crazy cache container at this point. I'll just continue putting modest caches in spots that people maybe don't know about. Those are my favorite caches. The ones that take me somewhere new. I cache for locations first. Containers and swag mean little to me at this point.

 

I sort of roll my eyes every single time I see someone on these forums pretend that an ammo can somehow requires more creativity to hide. Heck if it requires too much cratvuty, you might ask yourself if you should maybe use something a little less scary to muggles! I would wager 95% of the ammo cans I've found were under a pile of rocks. With Micros, I've seen far more diversity. That said, I purposely avoid caching in parking lots and stuff unless I'm bored and just happen to check. I feel like the onus is partially on us to not find caches we don't like.

 

All that said, I DO think that a small can usually be use in place of a micro with very little threat of it being found. Since I like trackables, that's the ideal size IMO.

 

EDIt: All that said, the first caches I made were regular sized lock n' locks. They are camoed, stocked with swag, contain logs and everything. I had to use my judgement and make all my caches smaller, because of various reasons... it was definitely NOT laziness. :D

Edited by d+n.s
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We have a local cacher that has hidden dozens of urban micros. It's the only kind of cache she hides. You would think that after 90 years on this Earth, she would at least hike five miles into the mountains to hide a cache that I like.

:ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

 

BTW, this a very special lady and I enjoy all of her hides. She's a hoot and wears bison tube earrings to all of the events she attends

 

My point is that not everyone hides micros because they are lazy.

 

I met another cacher that hides clever caches that are close to parking. He's dragging an oxygen container behind him.

 

This sport, activity, or what ever you want to call it, is available to all. When I started, a 16 mile hike with elevation was easy. Five years later, I'm struggling at 10 Miles.

 

Urban caching, for some, is the only caching that they can do. If it doesn't float your boat, go hike and find some caches. I can foresee the day that my back and my knees prohibit me from finding that great cache high on the ridge.

 

Should I just quit geocaching?

 

No way!

Edited by Don_J
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Every film processing shop in the world had billions of old 35mm canisters that were no longer of any use to the world. The costs for having them removed for recycling were astronomical. The owner of one shop discoverer that a brand new GPSr was the much much cheaper option... And so pushed one in every nook and cranny in town... Carefully taking co-ordinates so as not to be accused of littering by the muggles. And then he told his collegues.

 

Of course most urban micros or nanos near here don't need a GPSr. If it's marked nano or other I check the street furnature, if it's micro there's usually only one or two places it can be. Here in semi rural England, we get great GPS accuracy in town, as the tallest buildings round here are 3 story... So using a GPSr to find most of the micro/nano hides takes what little fun remains out of it too.

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While all this talk of laziness is probably partly correct, I believe that there is another cause for the glut of urban micros. It's the attitude toward cache maintenance that we so often see exemplified in this forum.

 

Put bluntly, hiding a full-sized cache out in the woods is just asking for harassment and hassle.

 

Let's say you hide a cache in a nice spot that requires a reasonably long hike to get to. You leave a Tupperware or lock-n-lock container with nice stuff in it.

 

Well, within a year it is likely that something will happen that requires maintenance. Rather than helping you out, your fellow geocachers will self-righteously proclaim that maintenance is the owner's job and they will put a Needs Maintenance log on your cache.

 

Within 3 years it is pretty much guaranteed that your Tupperware or lock-n-lock will be wet inside and starting to fall apart. You'll get numerous Needs Maintenance logs and probably some busybody will start emailing you taking you to task for not performing enough maintenance. If anything in your life comes up that makes it difficult for you to go out and do maintenance, you may well be branded as not caring and maybe you'll even get a Needs Archived log, in which case you have to deal with a reviewer.

 

All during this time, people will email you upset because they didn't find a TB in your cache that was supposed to be there, or asking you to check on their TB that is supposed to be in your cache.

 

Now compare that to owning an urban micro. Which one will you pick?

 

I am exaggerating, of course. But the effect is real. Next time you complain to somebody about the state of their backwoods full-sized cache, think about what behavior you are encouraging.

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We have a local cacher that has hidden dozens of urban micros. It's the only kind of cache she hides. You would think that after 90 years on this Earth, she would at least hike five miles into the mountains to hide a cache that I like.

:ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

 

BTW, this a very special lady and I enjoy all of her hides. She's a hoot and wears bison tube earrings to all of the events she attends

 

My point is that not everyone hides micros because they are lazy.

 

I met another cacher that hides clever caches that are close to parking. He's dragging an oxygen container behind him.

 

This sport, activity, or what ever you want to call it, is available to all. When I started, a 16 mile hike with elevation was easy. Five years later, I'm struggling at 10 Miles.

 

Urban caching, for some, is the only caching that they can do. If it doesn't float your boat, go hike and find some caches. I can foresee the day that my back and my knees prohibit me from finding that great cache high on the ridge.

 

Should I just quit geocaching?

 

No way!

 

I like your post (sort of). It is true, according to my personal observations (Western NY and Southern Ontario) that a good number of easy micros are hidden by Senior Citizens. But there's also been a gang of 13 yr. old middle schoolers, and plenty of young-middle aged people whom I know to be perfectly capable of taking a 15 mile hike. Pretty much anyone can hide cheap easy micros. Except me of course. :lol:

 

So yeah, like I said in my last post prior to this one, there are mobility impaired cachers out there, but statistically very few. And C'mon, they need 50% of the caches in the average American urban area/suburbs allegedly placed on their behalf?

 

I also dislike lumping all "urban caching" caching together, especially when referencing it's all some people can do. A bison tube in a small park with a war memorial? I'm there. A film can in a store parking lot on private property without permission? Ignored as fast as I can click my mouse. :)

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While all this talk of laziness is probably partly correct, I believe that there is another cause for the glut of urban micros. It's the attitude toward cache maintenance that we so often see exemplified in this forum.

 

Put bluntly, hiding a full-sized cache out in the woods is just asking for harassment and hassle.

 

Let's say you hide a cache in a nice spot that requires a reasonably long hike to get to. You leave a Tupperware or lock-n-lock container with nice stuff in it.

 

Well, within a year it is likely that something will happen that requires maintenance. Rather than helping you out, your fellow geocachers will self-righteously proclaim that maintenance is the owner's job and they will put a Needs Maintenance log on your cache.

 

Within 3 years it is pretty much guaranteed that your Tupperware or lock-n-lock will be wet inside and starting to fall apart. You'll get numerous Needs Maintenance logs and probably some busybody will start emailing you taking you to task for not performing enough maintenance. If anything in your life comes up that makes it difficult for you to go out and do maintenance, you may well be branded as not caring and maybe you'll even get a Needs Archived log, in which case you have to deal with a reviewer.

 

All during this time, people will email you upset because they didn't find a TB in your cache that was supposed to be there, or asking you to check on their TB that is supposed to be in your cache.

 

Now compare that to owning an urban micro. Which one will you pick?

 

I am exaggerating, of course. But the effect is real. Next time you complain to somebody about the state of their backwoods full-sized cache, think about what behavior you are encouraging.

 

Most of my cache hides have been of the small/regular sized caches in the backwoods and I haven't experienced the harassment and hassle that you speak of.

 

It could be argued that if someone has a cache that has been falling apart and in need of maintenance for 3 years and hasn't responded to needs maintenance requests he would be deservedly branded as uncaring (barring any mitigating circumstances such as illness).

 

Surely you aren't suggesting that we refrain from notifying COs of backcountry caches of maintenance issues.

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But just because there's a spot big/good enough for a larger cache, why should one be hidden there? You could also say the same of the opposite...maybe there's a spot with an ammo can and some may think, This would have been a great spot for a micro. You may prefer walking 500 feet down the trail to find an ammo can, but others will prefer to find that micro.

 

I have yet to read someone say that they'd prefer to find a micro in the woods instead of something larger. Even in your post you don't say that you would prefer a micro in the woods over something larger. I've yet to read a complaint about too many swag-size caches in forests. A swag-size cache pleases a larger percentage of your caching audience. An ordinary micro (e.g. film canister hanging in a tree) pleases mainly the 'all-caches-are-great-caches' minority.

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Wow, this thread got lots of replys.

 

Pinehurst, one thing these folks haven't told you is, the proliferation of micros, (AKA: The END of Geocaching as we know it), is the end result of the plan of one evil, evil man from Texas. Yup. You guessed it. It's all Snoogans' fault! Fetch the torches and pitchforks!

 

What about him?

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When I returned from my little, "hissy fit" I got no warm welcoming! :ph34r: :ph34r:

I'm not sure equating pinehurst coming back with the rapture is exactly warm welcome.

 

Now, Vinny, that's a whole different enchilada.

 

:o Vinny's an enchilada??? That explains a lot!!! :o

micro threads are for ice analogies, not enchilada analogies.

 

Now an ice cream echilada ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Chocolate-Tortilla-Ice-Cream-Enchilada.jpg

 

What flavor is it? :unsure:

 

I think a map would be much better to wrap the enchilada in than a compass would.

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We have a local cacher that has hidden dozens of urban micros. It's the only kind of cache she hides. You would think that after 90 years on this Earth, she would at least hike five miles into the mountains to hide a cache that I like.

:ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

 

BTW, this a very special lady and I enjoy all of her hides. She's a hoot and wears bison tube earrings to all of the events she attends

 

My point is that not everyone hides micros because they are lazy.

 

I met another cacher that hides clever caches that are close to parking. He's dragging an oxygen container behind him.

 

This sport, activity, or what ever you want to call it, is available to all. When I started, a 16 mile hike with elevation was easy. Five years later, I'm struggling at 10 Miles.

 

Urban caching, for some, is the only caching that they can do. If it doesn't float your boat, go hike and find some caches. I can foresee the day that my back and my knees prohibit me from finding that great cache high on the ridge.

 

Should I just quit geocaching?

 

No way!

Nice story. Only this lady you talk of was FTF on one of my hiking caches! Granted it was a short hike - less than 1 mile round trip, but it was up a steep hill on a not very well maintained trail. She and the guy she caches with (almost as old as she is) just took their time and made it to my cache. I also remember the time she won an ammo can in a raffle at an event and hid it up a very steep slope near the Odyssey restaurant. So I'm not sure the point you were making.

 

What is true is that some people prefer finding urban micros and others like both urban micros and nice big ammo cans in the woods. Some even like a nicely hidden micro in the woods. Almost everyone likes a big cache in an urban setting (probably because these are so rare). This is making me think of ice cream :mmraspberry:

 

(I won't mention why talking about the cacher you mentioned makes me want to avoid enchiladas :ph34r: )

Edited by tozainamboku
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Wow, this thread got lots of replys.

 

Pinehurst, one thing these folks haven't told you is, the proliferation of micros, (AKA: The END of Geocaching as we know it), is the end result of the plan of one evil, evil man from Texas. Yup. You guessed it. It's all Snoogans' fault! Fetch the torches and pitchforks!

 

What about him?

 

Oh he gave away like 13,000 film canisters at Geowoodstock once. Or something like that. :lol: He is an evil man. An evil, evil man.

Edited by Mr.Yuck
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first I should note that I live in the center of Manchester (UK)

 

Most of my hides are Smalls (normally lock n locks) but i do own 1 urban nanno.

 

I would love to be able to put a much larger cache there but given that the IRA exploded a massive bomb there not that long ago i doubt that anything bigger than the current nano would be welcome!

 

In short I think that micros and nanos should only be used in worthy locations where there isnt room for anything bigger or where there is a real bomb threat

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I read the whole thread and am surprised no one has mentioned some ideas.

 

1. There are more geocachers now then there ever was in the past. More geocachers mean more hiders, meaning less spaces to hide them. People are moving into city caching more and more.

More cachers also means more variety of cachers, therefore, more people who don't hike want to cache, thus more city caches

 

It is hard to hide an ammo box in the city.

 

There seems to be a lot more competition in caching now.

More competition, means higher numbers, means people want higher numbers, means more caches in the city, means more micros because it's hard to fit an ammo box under a light skirt.

 

Cachers who have found more are more likely to get bored with ammo boxes all the time. Let's face it, I for one, might have quit caching if all there were was ammo boxes, because I really need a good challenge sometimes.

 

The local "evil ammo" series not withstanding, I need some good tough hides sometimes. I otherwise will get bored.

 

My favorite are ammo boxes, but I'm really glad there are tougher caches out there too. (and most of these are micros)

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My favorite are ammo boxes, but I'm really glad there are tougher caches out there too. (and most of these are micros)

 

But how many of the new urban micros are challenging hides, vice hide-a-keys on guardrails or film cans under lamp skirts? I suspect the latter far out number the former.

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My favorite are ammo boxes, but I'm really glad there are tougher caches out there too. (and most of these are micros)

 

But how many of the new urban micros are challenging hides, vice hide-a-keys on guardrails or film cans under lamp skirts? I suspect the latter far out number the former.

Agreed. It's been quite a long time since a micro offered me a challenge. If the challenge aspect is negated, i search for other aspects to gain some measure of satisfaction. That's often when my highly biased caching aesthetics engages. Am I someplace I enjoy? For most urban settings, especially those seemingly favored by the local micro hiders, (dumpsters/lamp posts/newspaper boxes/etc), the answer is "No". With an ammo can, the answer is almost always "Yes", as the local ammo box hiders seem to prefer natural settings. Everything else being equal, I'll take nature over suburbia every time.

 

I think many hiders place caches within their comfort zones. As the game gets more and more mainstream, it attracts those who are more comfortable in an urban environment. Maybe they prefer urban settings because they are too lazy to walk more than 10' from the air conditioning in their SUV. Maybe they prefer urban environments because poor health keeps them from making long hikes. Maybe they grew up in suburbia and that's all they know. Maybe they are cheap buggers who are unwilling to invest either the time, the energy or the money hiding an ammo can deep in the woods, so they spit out film cans at every McDonalds they come across.

 

Who knows?

 

In the end, they are hiding what they want to hide.

 

If they are enjoying themselves, nothing else matters.

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Who cares if there are a lot of micros. People enjoy geocaching in many different ways which is what makes it great. Some dont like hiking or cant physically hike far. Some dont care about swag. Some enjoy the extra challenge a micro can add. If you dont like micros then dont go after them. Simple as that.

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Wow, I'm suprized my thread got so many replys.

 

We love you, Pinehurst. Really.

 

Thanks

 

 

Wow, I'm suprized my thread got so many replys.

 

Just make sure you don't get too obsessed that you will start hiding ammo cans on the doorstep of burger king or mcdonalds. :anibad:

 

Why not?

 

 

Wow, I'm suprized my thread got so many replys.

You shouldn't be. Statistically speaking, your topic stood a good chance of seeing an above-average number of responses.

 

topic_reply_count_by_theme_.gif

 

How did you make that chart?

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How did you make that chart?

I did a careful analytical study using a combination of techniques and a fairly sophisticated software application made available to me by a friend who works at MIT. Data mining was the hard part - since screen scraping is against the Groundspeak TOU, I first had to read every post in every topic in the main forum. I limited the study to topics started in 2007 or later.

 

For each topic, I assigned a numerical value corresponding to one of the six-thousand unique topic themes called out in the 2009 Marston Report (as you might have guessed, the assignments to the Marston themes were made using word-group density modeling). I also recorded additional information on topic titles and genre, number of total characters in the opening post, time of day the topic was started, and of course, number of responses as of the time I processed the topic. I fed all the information into the data analysis system, and applied various processing techniques (data "smoothing", Sine-on-Random, predictive modeling, etc.) so I was able to discard data that was determined to be statistically irrelevant or otherwise tangential to the study.

 

That was it! The software application then generated the pie chart I posted here based on the results of the analysis.

 

I'm kidding, of course. I just Googled "pie chart generator", picked one of the web sites that showed up in the results, entered some text and numbers that I made up, and posted the image here.

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Some dont like hiking or cant physically hike far.

 

My right leg is in a cast. I broke my ankle while looking for a cache on a slippery hill, 7 days ago. Does it make me hanker for a micro in a parking lot? Not at all.

 

I'm not going to get someone to give me a ride to the nearest lamp post so I can reach out the passenger side window to get my smiley. I'm going to concentrate on taking care of my leg so I can heal up quickly and get back out to the hiking trails and in the parks. If I was so disabled that I could not go hiking again I'd stop geocaching. Geocaching is not about another notch on my smiley belt. I bet that's true for most disabled people. Wouldn't most people prefer a full caching experience which includes a swag size cache in a nice (accessible) location. Even people who don't trade swag or trackables aren't going to be upset to find a well-cared-for, well-stocked cache.

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How did you make that chart?

I did a careful analytical study using a combination of techniques and a fairly sophisticated software application made available to me by a friend who works at MIT. Data mining was the hard part - since screen scraping is against the Groundspeak TOU, I first had to read every post in every topic in the main forum. I limited the study to topics started in 2007 or later.

 

For each topic, I assigned a numerical value corresponding to one of the six-thousand unique topic themes called out in the 2009 Marston Report (as you might have guessed, the assignments to the Marston themes were made using word-group density modeling). I also recorded additional information on topic titles and genre, number of total characters in the opening post, time of day the topic was started, and of course, number of responses as of the time I processed the topic. I fed all the information into the data analysis system, and applied various processing techniques (data "smoothing", Sine-on-Random, predictive modeling, etc.) so I was able to discard data that was determined to be statistically irrelevant or otherwise tangential to the study.

 

That was it! The software application then generated the pie chart I posted here based on the results of the analysis.

 

I'm kidding, of course. I just Googled "pie chart generator", picked one of the web sites that showed up in the results, entered some text and numbers that I made up, and posted the image here.

 

Oh, I was about to ask how long it took, but I saw it said you were kidding.

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