Vandalism?

[+insx]

Hi Folks

 

Do you see it as an act of vandalism if someone has to modify a screw and remove the end cap from a sign post or handrail to make a hide?

 

What is worst case of vandalism you have come across in a hide?

 

Cheers

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Hi Folks

 

Do you see it as an act of vandalism if someone has to modify a screw and remove the end cap from a sign post or handrail to make a hide?

That is situational. If it is done without damaging the infrastructure I would say that it is fine. Fake bolts replacing real ones where structural integrity is not compromised can make for a fun tough-to-find cache.

 

What is worst case of vandalism you have come across in a hide?

 

Cheers

Interestingly the overall players of this game are quite conscientious and of the thousands of caches that I have found I do not recall but a couple that I would classify as vandalism. I believe that any cache which would rise to that level would be reported and shut down.

 

Geocachers tend to police the game themselves and damage gets reported pretty quickly.

 

Someone locally once used an engraving tool to scratch coordinates for one stage of a multi into the paint of a hand rail at a soccer field. It was reported and soon archived.

 

We did have a newbie a few years ago who insisted on using a 1" paddle bit to drill holes in trees and wooden fence posts into which he stuck film cans. They were reported and archived as soon as they were found and he was hounded out of the game by local cachers within a few weeks.

Edited July 27, 2010 by TheAlabamaRambler

[+DragonsWest]

I have encountered a number of hides where steel plates or patches of velcro have been stapled to surfaces to secure hides. I consider that altering/defacing public or private property.

[+atmospherium]

Do you see it as an act of vandalism if someone has to modify a screw and remove the end cap from a sign post or handrail to make a hide?

 

I think the key word in this case is "modify". Unless the sign post belongs to you, you shouldn't alter it in that way. I don't believe I would label it vandalism, but it is tampering with public property.

 

Having said that, I've found a few caches where a fence post or something similar has been altered a bit by the hider, and I didn't make any fuss about it. Just signed the log and moved on.

[+roziecakes]

The worst case of vandalism we've seen is that a chainlink fence was actually PULLED apart so that the cache could be placed inside one of the poles, and I'm not just talking a pole cap, I'm talking about a structural piece of the fence that was attached to another piece of the fence.

[+briansnat]

I haven't seen anything very serious. The worst has been a few a screw eyes or hooks screwed into trees or boards. A guideline violation but not exactly a horrible thing.

 

I found one where the CO purchased his own fence post end cap and modified it so he can conceal a large cache inside the pole. He has the original cap and will replace it once he archives his cache. I'm not even sure if I'd call that vandalism. At least I doubt the police would bother arresting him for it.

[knowschad]

I found a multi during my first year of caching, where one of the stages had the coordinates written in Sharpie pen on the rock base of a plaque along a trail. They weren't written in a conspicious spot, but it was still vandalism and I didn't like it.

[+Castle Mischief]

I found one where the CO purchased his own fence post end cap and modified it so he can conceal a large cache inside the pole. He has the original cap and will replace it once he archives his cache. I'm not even sure if I'd call that vandalism. At least I doubt the police would bother arresting him for it.

 

Two of my adopted hides are like this. If I ever archive them, I'll just remove the container and leave the cap that's currently in place.

 

To the OP: if you're concerned about a particular hide then contact your reviewer privately and then let it go. If there's an issue with the hide they will handle it. It's not worth the drama to try and deal with it and the cache owner on your own.

[+insx]

Castle Mischief: No, I'm not concerned. I thought it was a good hide. Just wondering about the ethics.

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I found one where the CO purchased his own fence post end cap and modified it so he can conceal a large cache inside the pole. He has the original cap and will replace it once he archives his cache. I'm not even sure if I'd call that vandalism. At least I doubt the police would bother arresting him for it.

 

Two of my adopted hides are like this. If I ever archive them, I'll just remove the container and leave the cap that's currently in place.

 

One of my hides is like this, except that the original cap was missing (but exists on other posts in the same fence) when I hid the cache so if I ever archive it all I need to do is clip off a wire I epoxied into the cap and leave the cap that I got on the post. It was my first hide and typically gets nice logs. It's actually one of my favorite hides because, although not certainly unique, it's something that most newbie cachers may not have encountered. Since there really aren't a lot of other hidey spots close to GZ and has a fairly blatant hint, I think it provides a good learning experience for newbie cachers to "think outside the box" when searching for caches.

[+DragonsWest]

The only time I'd consider a fencepost end-cap hide of my own is where one did not previously exist. No shortage of those, though the often contain about 5 feet of water.

 

My interpretation of the 'Leave no trace' guideline extends to the cache hide itself. If I archive the cache and take it home, there will be no indication it had been there at all - no holes, no hardware, no paint - nothing.

[+narcissa]

There's a cacher in my area who bores large holes into trees, pries off large pieces of bark, etc. I think the local reviewer is on to him though.

[+narcissa]

There's a cacher in my area who bores large holes into trees, pries off large pieces of bark, etc. I think the local reviewer is on to him though.

[+Prime Suspect]

Do you see it as an act of vandalism if someone has to modify a screw and remove the end cap from a sign post or handrail to make a hide?

That's both vandalism and theft.

[knowschad]

Do you see it as an act of vandalism if someone has to modify a screw and remove the end cap from a sign post or handrail to make a hide?

That's both vandalism and theft.

Only if he takes the end cap home with him. I'm assuming that it is replaced, else the hide would be a giveaway.

[+Dragery]

Worst I've seen in my area, there is a spot sign in a parking lot, and you have to almost fully unscrew the bottom bolt in order to get a nano that is just above it. (the bolt is preventing you from being able to get the nano out). But that's debatable considering each time you replace the cache, you replace the bolt. I just felt bad doing it, if a LEO saw me doing it, I'd probably get asked a few questions.

 

I've seen my share of property damaged due to cache retrieval tho, some people have no regard for property when they are determined to find a cache.

[+Chrysalides]

I've not seen it myself, but someone here (sorry, can't remember who) recounted the story of a cacher who discovered what he could do with a 1 inch spade bit, a portable power drill, and film canisters...

[+TABjuggler]

Worst I've seen in my area, there is a spot sign in a parking lot, and you have to almost fully unscrew the bottom bolt in order to get a nano that is just above it. (the bolt is preventing you from being able to get the nano out). But that's debatable considering each time you replace the cache, you replace the bolt. I just felt bad doing it, if a LEO saw me doing it, I'd probably get asked a few questions.

 

I've seen my share of property damaged due to cache retrieval tho, some people have no regard for property when they are determined to find a cache.

 

I think I found one of those in NY, but it didn't dawn on me that I might have to unscrew the bolt. I could feel the cache, but I couldn't get it out. I tried to hand loosen the bolt, but it seemed a bit tight and I wasn't going to draw anymore attention to myself with about 100 people around me.

 

I messaged the CO and asked him how I was supposed to retrieve it but they never messaged me back.

 

I mean how hard is it to use a magnetic micro on those BELOW that bolt. I'm still mad at not getting a smiley on that cache because I could FEEL it.

[+pamlicojack]

I've had to unscrew a bolt form the bottom of a stop sign to free a cache, but there was already a bolt above it. I'm sure the CO simply added another bolt to hold it in place. However it is nearly impossible to remove the cache without using a ratchet or wrench to loosen the nut. Not so inconspicuous at a 4-way intersection and I'm sure someone would report it as suspicious...

[+Cache O'Plenty]

This scenario brings up one cache near here that was placed in one of those square signposts with the holes in it. It was hung from the top with a section of hanger wire about six inches down, behind the existing sign. Worked fine until the local parks department added a new sign to the post. Now there are two signs with the cache located directly behind the top one. The Parks/Rec folks must chuckle because they used those one-way bolts to attach the new sign. There is no way to remove the bolts (top or bottom) to get to the cache. But you can see it through the holes!!!