Wheelchair Accessible

[+kmartcachier]

My first four hides are currently in my reviewer's cue and as I set about tagging attributes I realized that I'm not sure whether "wheelchair access" refers to the cache area or the cache itself. All of my caches are in areas where someone in a wheelchair could travel and even find the cache but all but one are impossible to retrieve from one.

 

For now I've tagged only the one that can be located, grabbed, logged, and replaced from a chair as accessible, but I don't want to limit the number of caches someone enjoys when the only wheeling cacher I've ever known always went with friends and she never had a problem with hidey holes she couldn't reach, just the ones she couldnt traverse.

 

So which ones should have the attribute?

 

I've looked without success in the guidelines, FAQ, and google for a DEFINATIVE answer. But if I've overlooked anything, a simple link would be very helpful!

Edited June 26, 2010 by kmartcachier

[+ngrrfan]

My first four hides are currently in my reviewer's cue and as I set about tagging attributes I realized that I'm not sure whether "wheelchair access" refers to the cache area or the cache itself. All of my caches are in areas where someone in a wheelchair could travel and even find the cache but all but one are impossible to retrieve from one.

 

For now I've tagged only the one that can be located, grabbed, logged, and replaced from a chair as accessible, but I don't want to limit the number of caches someone enjoys when the only wheeling cacher I've ever known always went with friends and she never had a problem with hidey holes she couldn't reach, just the ones she couldnt traverse.

 

So which ones should have the attribute?

 

I've looked without success in the guidelines, FAQ, and google for a DEFINATIVE answer. But if I've overlooked anything, a simple link would be very helpful!

IMHO.... Wheelchair accessable means that a person in a wheelchair has full access to it, not just getting to GZ.

[savant9]

I only have 2 that I have listed as wheelchair accessible, one is an earth cache and the other I have this note in the cache description "The hide is wheelchair accessible, but a person in a chair may need help to retrieve the cache."

 

I guess I follow the same line of thinking that it is better to add the attribute if the site truly is accessible even if the hide may not be. I would suspect that a person who is bound to a chair would take a bit more time carefully selecting the caches they visit, so a note in the description should suffice. Of course there are many different types of people that are in wheelchairs with varying degrees of mobility so its tough to say what is or isn't possible by the individual. Rating it based on GZ seems to be an accurate way of doing it (because thats the way I do it so it must be right ).

[+power69]

My first four hides are currently in my reviewer's cue and as I set about tagging attributes I realized that I'm not sure whether "wheelchair access" refers to the cache area or the cache itself. All of my caches are in areas where someone in a wheelchair could travel and even find the cache but all but one are impossible to retrieve from one.

 

For now I've tagged only the one that can be located, grabbed, logged, and replaced from a chair as accessible, but I don't want to limit the number of caches someone enjoys when the only wheeling cacher I've ever known always went with friends and she never had a problem with hidey holes she couldn't reach, just the ones she couldnt traverse.

 

So which ones should have the attribute?

 

I've looked without success in the guidelines, FAQ, and google for a DEFINATIVE answer. But if I've overlooked anything, a simple link would be very helpful!

think of it as if you were alone in a wheelchair. can you GET to gz in a chair? if yes, can you RETRIEVE the cache from a sitting position? answer yes to both then its wheelchair accessable else no.

wheelchair accessable = 1 star terrain

not wheelchair accessable 1.5 or more stars on terrain.

[+succotash]

Our interpretation is that the wheelchair accessible attribute should mean a person in a wheel chair can get to GZ and retrieve the cache. We recently found a cache with the wheelchair attribute. It was hidden in the top rafters of a building that sheltered a spring. There is no way that someone in a wheelchair could get that cache and we saw that many people had put in their log that the attribute was not correct. It seems a bit unfair to add the attribute if the person in the wheelchair cannot access the container on their own, even if there is additional explanation in the text. Perhaps some wheelchair-bound cachers will let us know their perspective.

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

What would be the point of telling someone it's wheelchair accessible if they can't reach it? Just doesn't make sense.

[+Chokecherry]

My mom is not in a wheelchair but has some mobility issues so we look for 1 or 1.5 for terrain ratings for her. I carefully go through and select them before we go out so that she can actually get to ground zero and the cache.

 

There is absolutely nothing worse than to go to a 1 or 1.5 terrain only to find that yes she can walk to the general area but then it's a climb up a huge rock and over some blown over trees to get to the cache. Or that it's down the edge of a steep bank that she would have to lay down on a path to reach. I hate having to explain that sorry mom these folks didn't rate their cache correctly and you really can't get it but I sure hope you had fun walking all the way out here anyways.

 

I, for one, really appreciate when people rate their terrain appropriately when using 1 or 1.5 star ratings.

[GOF's Sock Puppet]

My mom is not in a wheelchair but has some mobility issues so we look for 1 or 1.5 for terrain ratings for her. I carefully go through and select them before we go out so that she can actually get to ground zero and the cache.

 

There is absolutely nothing worse than to go to a 1 or 1.5 terrain only to find that yes she can walk to the general area but then it's a climb up a huge rock and over some blown over trees to get to the cache. Or that it's down the edge of a steep bank that she would have to lay down on a path to reach. I hate having to explain that sorry mom these folks didn't rate their cache correctly and you really can't get it but I sure hope you had fun walking all the way out here anyways.

 

I, for one, really appreciate when people rate their terrain appropriately when using 1 or 1.5 star ratings.

 

Part of the problem here is that the last few feet are often considered a part of the difficulty rating. The terrain up to a lamp post is a flat one star. If the cache is ten feet up the pole it is a higher difficulty rating. It can be a hard thing to balance the use of the two.

 

Have a local forum in your area? Perhaps you can start a thread asking for recommendations. Explain your moms limitations and ask folks to add to the list when they come by a cache that fits the bill.

[+Team Cotati]

My mom is not in a wheelchair but has some mobility issues so we look for 1 or 1.5 for terrain ratings for her. I carefully go through and select them before we go out so that she can actually get to ground zero and the cache.

 

There is absolutely nothing worse than to go to a 1 or 1.5 terrain only to find that yes she can walk to the general area but then it's a climb up a huge rock and over some blown over trees to get to the cache. Or that it's down the edge of a steep bank that she would have to lay down on a path to reach. I hate having to explain that sorry mom these folks didn't rate their cache correctly and you really can't get it but I sure hope you had fun walking all the way out here anyways.

 

I, for one, really appreciate when people rate their terrain appropriately when using 1 or 1.5 star ratings.

 

From my personal observations, in the majority of cases, there is absolutely no relationship between the terrain rating on a given cache and whether or not it can be found and retrieved by someone who is wheelchair bound.

 

Perhaps the guideline has changed for a 1.5 but I don't recall that it was intended to encompass accessibility by geocachers who are wheelchair bound.

 

In my opinion, a geocache ought to both carry the terrain rating of 1 and have the wheelchair accessible attribute if a person can get to GZ and retrieve the container, unassisted, while remaining seated in the chair.

 

Unfortunately all indications are, that that is unlikely to ever be the case.

[+thedeadpirate]

Try http://www.handicaching.com for some idea of proper rating. I would definitely reserve the wheelchair attribute for a cache that can be approached and retrieved from a wheelchair.

[+Mosaic55]

 

In my opinion, a geocache ought to both carry the terrain rating of 1 and have the wheelchair accessible attribute if a person can get to GZ and retrieve the container, unassisted, while remaining seated in the chair.

 

 

Is it OK to assume some upper body dexterity? Like being able to lean forward or to a side and reach up or under something?

[+Cache O'Plenty]

I presume that if a wheelchair can get to the same point that a walking person can, then it's wheelchair accessible. Now, the question becomes "can they reach it from a sitting position?".

 

I assume the limit of their reach is not just "arm's length" but can be augmented by one of those "grabbers" that most wheelchair bound folks already have. Same for a standing person that is 5'6" can reach well just over 9 feet using one. I know, because I have one. At 5'6" I can reach a cache hidden at the top of a street sign without stretching. But if they have to "lift a lamp post skirt" from a distance of 3 feet (curb problem), then I take that into consideration.

 

If you aren't sure, next time you place a cache, take a stool with you. Sit down and then retrieve the cache without falling off the stool. If you can, it's a 1.0. if not, then it's 1.5.

[+Team Cotati]

 

In my opinion, a geocache ought to both carry the terrain rating of 1 and have the wheelchair accessible attribute if a person can get to GZ and retrieve the container, unassisted, while remaining seated in the chair.

 

 

Is it OK to assume some upper body dexterity? Like being able to lean forward or to a side and reach up or under something?

 

No, that would not be ok.

[+thedeadpirate]

I assume the limit of their reach is not just "arm's length" but can be augmented by one of those "grabbers" that most wheelchair bound folks already have. Same for a standing person that is 5'6" can reach well just over 9 feet using one. I know, because I have one.

 

Don't assume that. Just because you carry one does not mean everyone does. I don't.

[+Cache O'Plenty]

I consider that grabber to be a TOTT, just like a pair of tweezers, or an extendable magnet or a flashlight or, even, a trekking pole. Now, I don't carry them all the time but, knowing my own limitations causes me to carry some of them. I would think that it would be standard practice for someone that is "vertically challenged" (and sitting in a wheelchair qualifies!) to carry such aids.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Cache O'Plenty

[+thedeadpirate]

I would think that it would be standard practice for someone that is "vertically challenged" (and sitting in a wheelchair qualifies!) to carry such aids.

 

You would be wrong.

[Chumpo]

My first four hides are currently in my reviewer's cue and as I set about tagging attributes I realized that I'm not sure whether "wheelchair access" refers to the cache area or the cache itself. All of my caches are in areas where someone in a wheelchair could travel and even find the cache but all but one are impossible to retrieve from one.

 

For now I've tagged only the one that can be located, grabbed, logged, and replaced from a chair as accessible, but I don't want to limit the number of caches someone enjoys when the only wheeling cacher I've ever known always went with friends and she never had a problem with hidey holes she couldn't reach, just the ones she couldnt traverse.

 

So which ones should have the attribute?

 

I've looked without success in the guidelines, FAQ, and google for a DEFINATIVE answer. But if I've overlooked anything, a simple link would be very helpful!

 

Please read this article. It is the most "DEFINATIVE" answer you'll find.

I have hidden a few handicaches over the years for my disabled daughter- ones that I thought were surely disabled friendly, but it wasn't until I read that well written essay that I finally got a clue.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

My buddy Ric (RIP) was a high-level quad for 23 years after rolling over a US Army tank in Germany. Essentially his face worked, but that's it. He loved geocaching! He had a power wheelchair that he could operate with a mouth stick. His wheelchair would get him through some amazingly rough terrain, but once he got to GZ he couldn't do anything except use his eyes to look. If he thought he saw it or where it should be he would tell me where it was so I could bring it to him and show him what was in it, then he'd sign it with a check-mark using a mouth stick pen holder. We found 40-something caches that way before pneumonia got him.

 

Ric could get to maybe 1 in 1000 caches (we ignored LPCs). He was perfectly happy with that and did not expect the local caching community to hide caches with him in mind. Basically when I was caching and found a cache that I thought Ric could get to I would tell him about it and he would look it up on a laptop we'd prop up in front of his face. He'd read every word of the listing, read every log, look at the maps... just get all excited about a cache that would make most of us yawn. Getting him dressed, out of bed into his wheelchair and into his van took hours, but he was like a kid on his first field trip. We'd get to the cache site, get him unloaded and tape the GPS to a bar on his wheelchair and he would use that mouth stick-driven chair to follow it and drive to GZ. When he found the cache you would think he'd won the lottery. Discovering geocaching after 23 years lying paralyzed in bed will do that to you.

 

Should cachers consider someone so profoundly disabled when they hide and rate accessible caches? Of course not. I know other cachers who are just about as limited, but there are very few, and all of them accept without resentment that it will be the rare cache that they can get to. I can't see that it makes any sense to require that an 'accessible' cache be accessible to someone like Ric. There just aren't enough quadriplegics cachers to make it sensible.

 

I lost a leg in '99 and broke my neck in '02. Can't wear a prosthetic leg, so sometimes I cache in a wheelchair, sometimes on crutches. Because I am determined to get to every possible cache (except long hikes) I find most all I hunt... but despite minor limitations I can reach, stand, walk on crutches, crawl, whatever.

 

Should cachers consider someone as capable as I when hiding and rating caches? Of course not. My capabilities do not reflect those of most disabled cachers. I can do far more than the average wheelchair-bound person, so assuming that wheelchair cachers have my level of capability would be wrong.

 

So - you have two extremes. Ric needed every possible accommodation, I need hardly any.

 

How then, given the wide range of disabilities and capabilities, does a CO decide what is accessible?

 

I tell able-bodied folks to use an office chair for practice. Could you get over the terrain using an office chair without standing up? If yes then most folks in a wheelchair can get to it.

 

Could you reach the cache while sitting in your office chair without standing up? Then so can most disabled cachers.

 

My advice is to go for the middle ground. You can't accommodate everyone and you are not expected to. It's okay to hide a handicap-accessible cache that someone like Ric couldn't get to because cachers like him are far and few between.

 

At the same time don't assume that disabled cachers can get to caches because I can. I can do more from a wheelchair than most can.

 

The middle ground is to assume that wheelchair cachers will have full use of their arms but not their legs.

 

Hide the caches that you intend to be accessible with that middle ground in mind and you'll be fine.

[+dorqie]

What would be the point of telling someone it's wheelchair accessible if they can't reach it? Just doesn't make sense.

+1

 

also, handicaching.com is pretty cool.

[+brslk]

What would be the point of telling someone it's wheelchair accessible if they can't reach it? Just doesn't make sense.

+1

 

also, handicaching.com is pretty cool.

 

+2

[+TeamCaribou]

My wife was handicapped and used and wheelchair or scooter. If a cache, or any event/location, was labeled as "wheelchair accessible," then we would have interpreted that to mean that a person in a wheelchair could go there and participate, which in this case means being able to retrieve the cache unassisted. You cannot assume that someone in a wheelchair is going to have someone with them to assist them at all times. If I used a chair, and saw a cache labeled “"wheelchair accessible,"” I would justifiably assume that I can go there, on my own, and get the cache.

 

If someone intends to mean that the general location was accessible, but not the cache, then I'd suggest labeling it "not wheelchair accessible,"” but them putting something in the description like “"wheelchairs can get with 10 feet the cache, but the last part must be ambulated."”

 

One more point of clarification. The attribute is “wheelchair accessible” not “accessible to the physically challenged” or something similar. A cache may be accessible to someone in a chair, but not to someone that is a quadriplegic, blind or has other challenges besides not being unable to walk. To me that means that the there are no obstructions, rocky ground, etc that would prevent a wheelchair from rolling there and that someone in a chair could bend over, or reach up, and get it.

Edited June 27, 2010 by TeamCaribou