It was all about the numbers after all...

[+NevaP]

I get home from traveling, all ready to upload new stats and the site is gone! Now i have to figure out a way to keep track of Iowa counties without INATN.

 

Thanks so much, Dave . this has been my favorite caching related site.

[+Fab4Leader]

Really sorry to just discover that INATN has fallen by the wayside. Thanks for all your efforts in keeping this going.

 

I don't believe there is a comparable service that provides an automatically generating UK county map. If someone finds one can they let me know?

 

Would be great if Groundspeak would take this on.

[+Thystle]

Thank you for your hard work. I loved the feature where you could compare your finds by state. It was the first one you closed, but nobody else has anything like it. Very well done, and your site will be missed by many of us!

[+NinjaCacher!]

Very sad to see this site go!! I also want to add my thanks for all the work on it, great job The Cheeseheads!

 

At the same time I have to say it would be a shame to let this simply die after all the work you've done... if it's really just an issue of not having time, would you consider opening your code to someone who is able to continue the project? It seems that there are plenty of people in the Geocaching community willing to help - techies who could work on the code, people offering help with the hosting, others offering financial support etc.

 

My suggestion would be to make the source code open (eg as a sourceforge project) so that several people can work on it (it's always easier as a group, as most people have another occupation..), and transfering the domain to someone who takes

 

Myself, I also have experience with coding and hosting PHP sites, so I could offer to work on the code... I also have web space (with PHP etc.), but would have to figure out if it's able to handle the bandwidth, server load, etc..

[+esim]

Thank you for all your work, I'll miss it.

[+Kewaneh & Shark]

Let me jump in with the multitudes and say Thanks for the work you've put in. Our caching adventures have slowed down a bit in the past year or two, when we have gone out, we've always looked forward to seeing the maps update to show our progress. We hit a milestone yesterday, and a few more Counties, so we were looking forward to those updates too.

 

All that said, Thanks again for what you've provided - it's been great - and Good Luck to what you have planned with your family!

 

Keep on Caching! - Kewaneh & Shark

[The Stoned Wookie]

I vote to have the program open-sourced, integrated into GC.com or supported by the user too. It is one of, if not the easiest and most detailed cache stat programs out there. I like how each state/country changed colors as you found more caches.

 

Thank for all the work you put into it. I hope to see it continued.

[ygo2slow]

...as in the number of hours in a day I have for stuff. Unfortunately, not very many of those hours go towards website development.

 

I was laid off from my job in 2005, and eventually got a temp job at a local company. Unfortunately, there wasn't a lot to do, but with virtually unfettered internet access and plenty of extra time, I decided to hone my PHP skills and developed a way that would let me take in a GPX file and verify what pages were completed for the Wisconsin DeLorme Challenge cache. after that was up and running, someone made a post in the Groundspeak forums about stats and the game not being about the numbers, and as a joke, registered itsnotaboutthenumbers.com and posted a link proving the point.

 

Soon after, I had the idea to reuse my DeLorme code to take the GPX file I read and derive some simple stats. The I added more stats. And more stats. The site got the blessing from Groundspeak. More people started using INATN. The servers went down. The site was moved to a dedicated server host, funded by Groundspeak. Things were good.

 

Then I got my old job back, and between that and a third child, I didn't have time to develop the site any further, but I did what I could to keep it going. Eventually, new cache types were added. Attributes were added to the GPX format. I patched things up here and there, but someone always managed to come up with a strange case that resisted all attempts to make it work.

 

I finally made a difficult decision: With no time to give INATN the attention it deserves, and new (and better) stat solutions out there, I've decided to close down the site. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who helped support this effort over the past several years, especially the wonderful folks at Groundspeak and everybody who either donated via Paypal or clicked on one of the links. It's been fun working on this and seeing the varied reactions from stat-hounds and stat-haters alike.

 

Thanks again, and see you on the trail!

 

-Dave Krug (aka The Cheeseheads)

 

****What are all the MAC (Apple) users going to do now?****

 

Does anyone know of a stat site that works on a Mac? Also, If there is anything Team Low Tech can do to help, Please let us know. Thanks. ygo2slow@mac.com

[+andrewceturner]

No! Someone please bring it back. It was great while it lasted though, thanks.

[+indymonk]

Hate to see this one go. Really enjoyed the state maps. Thanks for all the work you did. Lots of luck in the future.

[+gwapogreg]

Thanks for all you did to keep it going while you could. Did you ever consider charging a nominal annual fee? Youd clean up.

[+5inCalif4Geo]

Also wanted to say thank you for this site. We aren't technically sophisticated and this was the one statistics website that we figured out how to use.

 

Sure wish our Premium Groundspeak membership included such a fun site.

We would've paid a small annual fee to keep this site going.

[+fanugler]

...as in the number of hours in a day I have for stuff. Unfortunately, not very many of those hours go towards website development.

 

I was laid off from my job in 2005, and eventually got a temp job at a local company. Unfortunately, there wasn't a lot to do, but with virtually unfettered internet access and plenty of extra time, I decided to hone my PHP skills and developed a way that would let me take in a GPX file and verify what pages were completed for the Wisconsin DeLorme Challenge cache. after that was up and running, someone made a post in the Groundspeak forums about stats and the game not being about the numbers, and as a joke, registered itsnotaboutthenumbers.com and posted a link proving the point.

 

Soon after, I had the idea to reuse my DeLorme code to take the GPX file I read and derive some simple stats. The I added more stats. And more stats. The site got the blessing from Groundspeak. More people started using INATN. The servers went down. The site was moved to a dedicated server host, funded by Groundspeak. Things were good.

 

Then I got my old job back, and between that and a third child, I didn't have time to develop the site any further, but I did what I could to keep it going. Eventually, new cache types were added. Attributes were added to the GPX format. I patched things up here and there, but someone always managed to come up with a strange case that resisted all attempts to make it work.

 

I finally made a difficult decision: With no time to give INATN the attention it deserves, and new (and better) stat solutions out there, I've decided to close down the site. I'd like to take this opportunity to thank everyone who helped support this effort over the past several years, especially the wonderful folks at Groundspeak and everybody who either donated via Paypal or clicked on one of the links. It's been fun working on this and seeing the varied reactions from stat-hounds and stat-haters alike.

 

Thanks again, and see you on the trail!

 

-Dave Krug (aka The Cheeseheads)

 

 

sad thank you for all your hard work and godspeed

[+meandmydogs]

THank you so much for all you did with this.. I will miss this one.. i was just telling someone how cool the county map was as you could watch your travels through the country.. Good luck with you job and new child..

Edited July 7, 2010 by meandmydogs

[+imtomcat]

Dave,

 

Your efforts added a whole new demention to the sport of geocaching. I truely appreciated all you have done over the years but can certainly understand why you are surrendering and moving on. One thing I have learned in this life, you don't get time back, so enjoy it while you can. Enjoy the kids and your wife and maybe some day, we'll see ya again. From wifey and I, God Bless you and the family. And as previously stated so eleoquently

 

Thanks For All The Fish!

 

Imtomcat

Orlando, Fl

[+Aix sponsa]

I will miss the site, also. I haven't used it for very long but like the detailed county maps since I don't make it out of my state much. It was great to see advances in the number of caches found by the county color changes. I was quite content with the site remaining as it was. I would be willing to pay a nominal fee to use it.

 

I do understand life changes and what one dedicates their time to also has to change at times. Thanks for all the hard work and enjoyment produced from your website.

[+Vicente23]

Sorry to hear that as I will miss the service. Big thanks to you for all the effort!

Edited July 8, 2010 by Vicente23

[Moonraker Team]

I would like to add my thanks for the hard work put in, it was an interesting and informative site and as can be seen from all the comments it will be missed, thanks alot and Happy Caching

[+findingbill]

There are other sites but this one was the BEST for the maps! I'm really sorry to see you go for selfish reasons but I send you my best wishes and hope for the future!

[+Turbolover]

NOOOOOO! I had a standing agreement with my wife that we could stop and get at least one cache per county on roadtrips, two if it was a county we wouldn't likely pass through again. It might not be about the numbers, but making those colors change motivated me!

 

Best of luck to you in your new endeavors, and to anyone with the skill to keep this outstanding project run.

[+City Slicker]

I just had to add my thanks for a well done site. I used it a lot. Every week I would add my stats and see how I was progressing. I'm going to miss it a lot. But thanks for making it available for the time you did. It would be nice if someone else could/would take it over as I can see by the many responses that it was indeed used well. I wish Dave all the luck in future. And thanks for the past.

[+lipster]

A small team of people to 'inherit' the site would be a cool a idea.

 

I've done some small sites - domain purchases are usually cheap (assuming no marketing/auctioning type of numbers games).

 

The LAMP server is really all you need - that includes a MySQL DB server. The hosting service I use has Apache/PHP/MySQL/SQL Server/Java, etc. So, there are hosting services out there that provide the technology.

 

The biggest $$$$ pit is the bandwidth used. For instance, some places may offer 50gb of bandwitch for $50 a month.

 

Hence, a small team of people to 'inherit' the site would be a cool a idea to share out costs (in addition to any support that people may offer) and share time in maintaining/developing the site.

[+loutilly]

My Favorite Map site ... It will be sorely missed. I hope Groundspeak takes it over.

Edited July 9, 2010 by loutilly

[+Michaelcycle]

Oh!!

I haven't uploaded my PQ in a couple months and was eagerly looking forward to the wonderful visual displays of my geotravels this morning when I got the "site not found" whack in the head!

 

OK, I've regained my composure...

 

I want to add my voice to those that have expressed their appreciation for your efforts, Dave, and add how much fun your site added to our sport. I wish you and yours a bright and happy future, at least we know you have your priorities straight!

[+GeoCharmer81]

Greetings Dave and Family,

Another expression of thanks and regret in seeing the demise of INATN!!! I loved the maps and colors and stats!!!

So easy for a non-techie like me to use.

All the best for you and your family in the future.

Here's hoping that somehow, some way the site will continue!!!

 

GeoCharmer81 (AKA Kelly)

[+MetsFanInNJ]

I went to upload my stats today and what the h....?

 

Thanks for your hard work over the years. Good luck in the future

 

Joe

[+debaere]

I haven't used the site so I cannot honestly say thanks, however I was just looking into a stats generator when I stumbled across this thread. I am about to write one for my own purposes.

 

Please consider open sourcing your code so others can take advantage of all the hard work that so many folks seem to appreciate so much.

 

Cheers!

[+MsJules]

 

Just chiming in with the rest to say "thanks" and I will truly miss the site. I loved it when a county changed colors. Your time and efforts are greatly appreciated.

[+cphug184]

I would like to add my thanks for your selfless contribution to our little society! I really enjoyed the site.

 

Good luck to you!

[+smstext]

been thinking (whoooo i know lol), surely within the community we have a lot of computer coding type people who could get together and run the INATN's and keep it running? as i know nothing about coding apart from printing my name across the screen on a bbc basic's computer from the 80's i cant really offer to help. but im sure a few of you out there could help?

#

just my thought...

[robertlipe]

FWIW, A message to Dave from a programmer with experience in the very tools and languages used to create the site and with excess hosting capacity asking what it'd take to transfer the site went unanswered. So it does look like it may indeed be dead.

[+DE_Cryptoman]

So sorry to see this site go. You performed a marvelous service for all of us. I don't think I could have completed the Texas County Challenge if it had not been for your efforts. Thanks, so long, God Bless, and Keep on Caching. May all of your endeavors be successful and enjoyable.

 

Harry "Doug" Eyre

DE_Cryptoman

Hewitt, TX TXCC 254/11

[+WebChimp]

I finally made a difficult decision: With no time to give INATN the attention it deserves, and new (and better) stat solutions out there, I've decided to close down the site

 

Dave, thanks for the contributions INATN made over the years. I used the site, and thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks for everything, INATN will be missed.

[+bwilliamson]

I've personally never used INATN but Dave why not just hand it down to another developer rather than close it? You could still wash your hands of it but allow the users to continue using the product. Just a thought.

[+Sagefox]

Everyone has pretty much said it all. I, too, miss this site. We recently got back from a trip to California where we were out coloring counties at the exact moment this site closed.

 

The county color maps were my favorite feature and a long time ago I posted the map updates to our profile page each time a county color changed. Coloring counties changed the way we geocache. I included a link to INATN site hoping that others would join in and, ideally, contribute some cash.

 

Hopefully, some tech savy folks will get together and negotiate a deal to reactivate INATN. We will gladly continue to contribute money to this site.

 

Thanks CHs for contributing some much of your time, energy and money to developing and improving your great web site. Good luck to you and your growing family.

[+tmschmitt]

I'm very sad to see it go. I've been using it for years. I'd like to add my vote for INATN to be released as Open Source or taken up by GC.com. I always felt that it had the best looking statistical display and the state maps with counties were awesome.

 

From a fellow Badger, thank you for all of work on it!

 

Terry aka tmschmitt

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

FWIW, A message to Dave from a programmer with experience in the very tools and languages used to create the site and with excess hosting capacity asking what it'd take to transfer the site went unanswered. So it does look like it may indeed be dead.

I've been quite surprised by that. I really thought he'd turn it over to a qualified programmer.

 

Oh well, http://www.mygeocachingprofile.com gives me county maps and slices and dices stats most any way I want them.

[+cal25]

I really liked the county maps tool in INATN and as yet have not found anything quite as good for that yet.

 

I am amazed that so many people expect something like this program would just be "turned over" to someone else. Dave spent untold hours shapeing and refineing this tool and let us use it for free without compensation.

 

Perhaps people that are running and developing the newer stat sites can read this thread and see some of the common need of better county map tracking.

 

THANK YOU CHEESEHEADS!! FOR INATN

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

I really liked the county maps tool in INATN and as yet have not found anything quite as good for that yet.

 

I am amazed that so many people expect something like this program would just be "turned over" to someone else. Dave spent untold hours shapeing and refineing this tool and let us use it for free without compensation.

 

Perhaps people that are running and developing the newer stat sites can read this thread and see some of the common need of better county map tracking.

 

THANK YOU CHEESEHEADS!! FOR INATN

Don't get me wrong, I am incredibly appreciative of anyone who contributes in any way to our game, especially in such a big way as Dave has!

 

However, once things changed and he needed to move on, even for a little while, it would have been a nice touch to let someone carry on his work... perhaps with an agreement that he could take it back over if and when he got ready to.

 

This interweb thing we use is mostly built and maintained for free by folks like Dave who have a passion for creating something that they will never make a dime off of - it's usually a net (pardon the pun) expense done for the sheer enjoyment of it. If what they created has value they will almost always make it available as open-source or under a General Purpose License so that it can live as long as users value it.

 

The Linux operating system and the millions of little pieces of code and applications which run on it, for example, is almost completely free, the product of literally hundreds of thousands of generous folks who found that something which they had created was useful to others and contributed it to the cause.

 

Also, most folks realize that their creation will benefit from outside ideas. Making code open-source allows the whole community to use, customize, further develop and maintain it, sometimes improving it in ways the author never even considered.

 

As an example I started The Online Geocacher magazine as a gift to the geocaching community, not only providing it for free but not accepting ad revenue so that geocachers telling geocaching stories without distraction would be it's sole modus operandi. It isn't cheap to host something with big enough pipes to serve fast graphics to lots of readers, and it was somewhat time consuming to learn to publish an online magazine. When I got to a point where I had to back away a bit due to other financial commitments I found someone who would take it over (thanks catsnfish!), commit to keeping it free, and who would turn it back over to me if he ever got to where he could no longer run it rather than let it die. He's doing a wonderful job carrying the magazine forward, the analytics show that he's getting lots of readers, and I am proud to see something that I started live on. Neither I nor catsnfish will ever see a dime in return for operating The Online Geocacher, but that wasn't the point of creating it. We just want it to exist for the community's enjoyment.

 

I don't see why the same could not be done with this site.

[+chaosmanor]

We were on vacation when you took down the site, so this is rather belated, but I just wanted to add our thanks for all of your work and time. I really enjoyed using your site. Glad to read that your career has taken a turn for the better, and that Life is being a little kinder to you

[+two bison]

Thank you.

[+drfred]

FWIW, A message to Dave from a programmer with experience in the very tools and languages used to create the site and with excess hosting capacity asking what it'd take to transfer the site went unanswered. So it does look like it may indeed be dead.

 

Another such message also went unanswered.

[+Wooly]

As so many have said, Thanks for all your hard work on the site and good luck.......I will miss it too.....

 

'Rubicon' Wooly.....................

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

FWIW, A message to Dave from a programmer with experience in the very tools and languages used to create the site and with excess hosting capacity asking what it'd take to transfer the site went unanswered. So it does look like it may indeed be dead.

 

Another such message also went unanswered.

He last visited this site July 7 so he hasn't seen most of these posts.

 

Abruptly taking the site down and then not paying much attention to this thread indicates to me that something happened and he's got a mad on.

[No H]

After a caching run, I went to send my finds up to see the easiest D/T grid I've found.

Unfortunately, I now see this is gone.

I wanted to chime in and thank you for a great site that I will miss...

[uperdooper]

the cheesemeister has been on vacation.

[+The Cheeseheads]

Back from a couple of camping trips and not looking at my emails for awhile...

 

To answer one of the main questions I've been getting: No, I'm not interested in giving away the code for INATN, mostly because a lot of it is poorly-documented spaghetti code that I'd be embarrassed to have to try to explain to someone. It does what it's supposed to do, but it's not my finest work...

 

Another question related to how I actually did the math to figure out the counties. If you search around the Internets, you can find a database which contains coordinates that make up the outlines of every county in the US.

 

{Dave scratches his head to try to remember the voodoo he did...}

• If I recall correctly, I had a county table that contained a state code, a county code, and some fields where I had pre-calculated the maximum and minimum lats and lons for each county, essentially defining the largest rectangle that each county would fit inside.
  
• Using that, if I was lucky, there would be only a single county that could contain the cache, so I would be done.
  
• But because most counties are irregularly shaped, sometimes that query would return multiple overlapping rectangles, so I would need to figure out which one of counties those rectangles represent was the one that completely encircled the cache.
  
• Here's where it gets goofy: Imagine a line segment starting from the cache location and heading straight north. Start testing consecutive pairs of points from the county outline database for a particular county. If you eventually find a pair of points which intersect the imaginary line heading north, then you may possible have a match. Test all the points again to see if they intersect lines heading east, south, and west as well. If all four pass, then you've found your county! If any fail, the start the testing over using the next county that was returned from your rectangle pre-search. (You can see how the math can really bog down the site...)
  
• Once a county is determined, record that in the saved caches database so it will be known for the future in case someone else uploads the same cache with their My Finds query.
  
• Of course, it's possible that no county may be determined. The county outline database I used did a good job of excluding bodies of water, rivers, etc. So if there was a wide river separating two counties and a cache was placed there, even though the actual border may split the river down the middle, per the outline database, the caches looks as if it's not contained in any county, so it would have to be manually corrected, a tedious job. I had created a tool for people to do this themselves, but it wasn't used often.
  
• I also used this process to figure out counties in the UK as well, using another outline database I found.
  

Clear as mud, right?

[+andrewceturner]

I really need to know how I can get another colored map of my finds like INATN had... I just recently finished the Michigan County Challenge and my map is not complete with it. Tried to use GSAK and it's just not as clear cut.

[robertlipe]

It seems it's a non-issue now, but if I understand the description of the county determination correctly, it would fail on county boundaries featuring higlhy concave or convex edges. (Think "jigsaw puzzle pieces".) GPSBabel's polygon feature gets it right, though it is computationally expensive.

 

This really is where a geospatially aware database shines.

[+Tikibirds]

Adding our voice to the many thanks - your site is deeply missed!