Is it really this hard?

[+simell]

Hi,

 

I have been a member since the 12th dec 2009. in that time I have found 10 caches and couldn't find 2. I have placed a cache, which I wrapped in a plastic bag and it was refused, I understand the reasons and removed the bag as instructed. Today I placed a cache in an approved container, in a wood that i have visited since i was a kid, it has at least one other cache in it, however I have been denied publication because i have no permission to place it there. There are other caches in this wood and I have no idea who to ask for permission. I have little time to spend on this and cannot research as much as I'd like. I would feel better if the person denying the publication of my cach had found as many as me, which I know is few. If that was the case, he would know that 3 of the caches I have found have plastic bags, and all of them except one of the two I could not find (which is on private land and I would have trespassed to find it), are on public land in the UK.

 

Is it really this dufficult and am I wasting my time. I'd love to do something fun with the kids and the dog without the politics that affect everthing else in life.

 

Yours dispondently

 

simell

[+GeePa]

I don't mean any disrespect, but I think the reviewer here is just doing his/her job. If people place caches in poor containers then they end up turning into litter so not good for the hobby. If people place caches where permission is required without permission then again it is not good for the hobby. We need to try and be good citizens if we don't want this hobby banned from many locations. Sometimes a cache is placed with a bad container because the reviewer did not know what the container was so it slips through the cracks. You can report this to the local reviewer. If you find that a cache is on private property and the cache description does not mention that there was permission for the hide then, again, I would report this cache to the local reviewer.

 

Overall, I think you should contact the reviewer about the location in the park where you wanted to hide and ask him/her if they know how to get proper permission for the hide. Many parks here in the US have a form you need to fill out to get permission to hide a cache. Maybe the other caches hidden in this park had proper permission?

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

Hi,

 

I have been a member since the 12th dec 2009. in that time I have found 10 caches and couldn't find 2. I have placed a cache, which I wrapped in a plastic bag and it was refused, I understand the reasons and removed the bag as instructed. Today I placed a cache in an approved container, in a wood that i have visited since i was a kid, it has at least one other cache in it, however I have been denied publication because i have no permission to place it there. There are other caches in this wood and I have no idea who to ask for permission. I have little time to spend on this and cannot research as much as I'd like. I would feel better if the person denying the publication of my cach had found as many as me, which I know is few. If that was the case, he would know that 3 of the caches I have found have plastic bags, and all of them except one of the two I could not find (which is on private land and I would have trespassed to find it), are on public land in the UK.

 

Is it really this dufficult and am I wasting my time. I'd love to do something fun with the kids and the dog without the politics that affect everthing else in life.

 

Yours dispondently

 

simell

First of all, you should be aware that your reviewer is also a cacher. He/she most probably caches under a different username.

 

Boning up on the guidelines (not 'rules') is an essential part of starting into a new activity. Whether you truly have the time to do so IMO is irrelevant. It is a matter of playing the 'game' the way that it is intended to play.

 

As far as plastic baggies go, well... in time, cache degradation happens and others, who "don't have the time" it seems, fail to properly maintain their cache placement. Perhaps they have quit geocaching for one reason or another, or simply ignore it. Other cachers occasionally attempt to perform what I call "get by" repairs and let it go as is -- not really a good thing to do.

As far as trespassing is concerned, that is one reason as to why there is a reviewer position, to ward off such placements. They require adequate permission before placement, as you have so noted. Whether or not the Cache Owner so stated on the cache page is another matter. They should have.

 

I'm sorry that you feel that this activity is so difficult that you may be wasting your time. If such is the case, then perhaps it is so and you shouldn't bother with it. Harsh, but quite possibly true! I and many others would prefer it stay as is. Some prefer the guidelines tighter and more strict.

[jholly]

First off if your going by the reviewer profile that only lists a couple of finds remember this is the reviewer account. The actual person also has a player account and probably has possibly 1,000s of finds. Many, most(?) of the reviewers have two accounts. So don't judge the experience by the find count on the reviewer account.

 

Yes a ziplock bag is not a proper container. Of the ones you found that were in plastic bags, there are a couple possibilities. One is the cache was muggled and a fellow cacher when finding this gathered up what he could and put the contents in a bag for the owner to come and fix. Some owners are not very responsive to needed maintenance. Another possibility is that the cache owner simply lied and since the reviewer does not physically check the hid he has no way of knowing. Another is that the listing really did not clearly identify the container and the review assumed it was a proper container when in fact it was just a ziplock bag.

 

As for finding out how to get permission, did you email the other cache owners and find out how they got permission? Or perhaps you could ask your reviewer for some suggestions.

[+Bear and Ragged]

Local laws may also apply...

 

The UK reviewers also take into account the GAGB guidelines here

 

Some areas are SSSI, owned by The Woodland Trust, the National Trust, or others, who ask that specific permission is requested before hiding and listing a cache on the site. The Reviewers in the UK are aware of this and proof may be requested to be shown by you that you do have the requered permission.

 

UK cachers can read Resources for Geocachers in the UK and Ireland written by one of the UK reviwers.

 

The UK reviewers cache under their own name, not their reviewer name. They have many 100's (1,000's!) of caches found under their caching name.

 

All UK reviewers are happy to tell you who they are if asked.

(Most of us that hang around the UK side of these forums know who they are anyway!)

Edited February 7, 2010 by Bear and Ragged

[+sapboiler]

there should be a rule that you cant place until you have found 30plus caches there is alot of things to consider

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

there should be a rule that you cant place until you have found 30plus caches there is alot of things to consider

Doubt that will happen.

 

Besides, we have seen excellent placements from people that have less than 30 finds, along with horrible placements by people that have in excess of 300 finds. IMO, placement integrity has some to do with caching experience, but probably not as much as one may expect. It is more of understanding the concept than anything else.

[+briansnat]

Is it really this dufficult and am I wasting my time. I'd love to do something fun with the kids and the dog without the politics that affect everthing else in life.

 

There are no politics involved. If your cache complies with the guidelines and local laws it will be published. Your reviewer is a geocacher. He wants to publish your cache. Gives him more to find.

 

There are hundreds of caches published every week throughout the world and we're approaching a million active caches. I doubt that would be the case if it was hard to get them published.

 

If you keep running into trouble start a dialogue with your reviewer and get some advice, or perhaps attend a local geocaching event where you can get advice from local geocachers. This is a fun thing to do with a the family and dog and don't let a few setbacks discourage you.

[knowschad]

there should be a rule that you cant place until you have found 30plus caches there is alot of things to consider

Why 30? What do you know at 30 finds that you didn't know at 29?

[knowschad]

I would feel better if the person denying the publication of my cach had found as many as me, which I know is few.

I can promise you without a doubt that your reviewer has found many, many, many more caches than the 7 that show up in the "Bee Keeper" reviewer account.

[+Bear and Ragged]

I would feel better if the person denying the publication of my cach had found as many as me, which I know is few.

I can promise you without a doubt that your reviewer has found many, many, many more caches than the 7 that show up in the "Bee Keeper" reviewer account.

 

1520 caches found under his own account, 13 hidden, member since 2005

[+riviouveur]

Hallo Simell,

 

It can be frustrating to find the perfect spot for a cache, and then discover that you need permission. However, often one of the things which makes a location a nice place to be and to place a cache, is that it's on well-managed land.

 

A quick bit of Googling reveals that the park where you placed your cache is part of Ruislip Woods National Nature Reserve. On that page you will find the name and e-mail address of the contact person at Hillingdon Borough Council. I'm guessing that a quick mail to him asking if the council objects to the placement of geocaches in the park, perhaps reassuring him that it's easy to find and in a location which will not cause disturbance to the surrounding area (it looks from the hint on your cache that you have found a great spot), would be likely to get a positive reply, unless the council has a specific "no-geocaching" policy for the parks which it manages. In that case, of course, a geocache should not be placed there anyway.

 

Based on my reading of the Google Map, which is some considerable way from being definitive, there seems to be just one other cache in that park (GC1AX1A). I can't tell from here what, if any, permission was obtained before it was published. Sometimes the reviewer files this away somewhere (unfortunately, the reviewer who published that cache is no longer active); sometimes, land managers introduce permission requirements but allow existing caches to stand; and sometimes, caches slip through. In any case, part of the deal is that every cache is a separate case.

 

Good luck with your placement!

[Keystone]

I would feel better if the person denying the publication of my cach had found as many as me, which I know is few.

Please don't feel badly about your misunderstanding reviewer accounts. It happens so often that I've included an explanation about it on my profile page. You can click on my name, "Keystone," to the left above my avatar picture to go see a reviewer profile. Many other reviewers include similar explanations on their profile. Well, except for the dogs. Many reviewers are dogs.

[The Bee Keeper]

Hi simell

 

Bear and Ragged has pointed out that I do indeed use another account to geocache with. You can find that under sssss. I was hoping to make it 1521 finds today but the review queue has been a bit busy so I have just been clearing those rather than caching. All of the UK reviewers use two separate accounts and are all well rounded geocachers with a few under their belts.

 

If you have a look at the links that Bear and Ragged has given you. You will find lots of very useful information about getting caches published in the UK. Use those along with the links in the reviewer notes that have been sent to you on both your caches.

 

The caches that you mention that do not follow the guidelines please let me have the details in an email and I will take the appropriate course of action with the relevant cache owners.

 

Steve

The Bee Keeper

Volunteer UK Reviewer for geocaching.com

UK Geocaching Information & Resources website www.follow-the-arrow.co.uk/resources

[+sapboiler]

there should be a rule that you cant place until you have found 30plus caches there is alot of things to consider

Why 30? What do you know at 30 finds that you didn't know at 29?

27 29 30 I was trying to state that I think you should seek for a while before you hide, not trying to start a fight just an opinion guess I shouldnt post anymore

[+StarBrand]

there should be a rule that you cant place until you have found 30plus caches there is alot of things to consider

Why 30? What do you know at 30 finds that you didn't know at 29?

27 29 30 I was trying to state that I think you should seek for a while before you hide, not trying to start a fight just an opinion guess I shouldnt post anymore

No - don't feel that way. The forums can seem a bit harsh at times - many of the regulars just want you be able to defend your position. Your point has been brought up about a thousand times and in every case there is a wide split between those that want a minimum and those that do not. However - reasonable people will always be willing to debate the point with thoughtful well reasoned arguments.

[+sapboiler]

there should be a rule that you cant place until you have found 30plus caches there is alot of things to consider

Why 30? What do you know at 30 finds that you didn't know at 29?

27 29 30 I was trying to state that I think you should seek for a while before you hide, not trying to start a fight just an opinion guess I shouldnt post anymore

No - don't feel that way. The forums can seem a bit harsh at times - many of the regulars just want you be able to defend your position. Your point has been brought up about a thousand times and in every case there is a wide split between those that want a minimum and those that do not. However - reasonable people will always be willing to debate the point with thoughtful well reasoned arguments.

I want to place a cache but personally am going to wait till at least 30 I would rather quality than quantity I want to make sure it is perfect and unique. No I dont care if people place caches before they find any just my opinion.

[+Border Caz]

Just my humble opinion but I think it is up to the individual to decide when they are"ready" to place a cache, be that before they find any or after they've found 1,000, or whatever.

 

Personally I held off placing my first until I had found 100 - but that was purely an arbritary figure that I plucked from mid-air. It may also have been something to do with my not wanting to "waste" good finding time on placing!

[+NeecesandNephews]

there should be a rule that you cant place until you have found 30plus caches there is alot of things to consider

Why 30? What do you know at 30 finds that you didn't know at 29?

 

I have to agree with this particular line of thought. Finding 15 or 1500 does NOT demonstrate an ability to maintain a cache. I think we can all agree its not just about hiding one, per se, its about maintaining it!!!

Having 1500+ finds (just a random number) does demonstrate, to some extent, your dedication to continuing participation in the hobby. But I have encountered a couple caches in my meager count of finds, placed by "veterans" of the hobby, with high find counts, that were in pitiful shape.

[+sTeamTraen]

In a couple of months we're going to celebrate ten years since somebody with no cache finds went out and placed one. Imagine if he'd had to find one first, never mind 30.

 

On the other hand, when placing it he dug a hole, included food as part of the swag, and subsequently failed to maintain it. So maybe there is a point to a minimum find count after all.

[+Renegade Knight]

... I have been denied publication because i have no permission to place it there. ...it really this dufficult and am I wasting my time. ...Yours dispondently

 

simell

 

If you were denied for lack of permission then your friendly neighborhood reviewer could have also let you know who to get that permission from. It sort of goes hand in hand with the denial since they can't know you don't have permission without knowing what they are looking for and from who.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Renegade Knight

[+Mini-Geek]

When I was placing my first cache, the first place I tried to place it on was a SSSI, I spent a long time trying to get permision, and trying to find the right person to contact about placing this cache, in the end I couldn't get permission for it.

 

On my second attempt I found a better location, which was public property, and not a SSSI, and it was reviewed and accepted within 24 hours.

 

The best thing to do is to research the location before you place the cache. As I found out from personal experiance.

 

You can use this resource to determine whether the peice of land in England is a SSSI.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Mini-Geek