Hiding it better?

[+kissguy&frannyfru]

I haven't been caching all that long compared to a lot of you but there is something that bugs me and was hoping someone can put some logic on it. I have seen in several logs and i think it has been done to one of mine where someone logs "i hid it back better than i found it" Why would someone do this? Don't you think if the owner had wanted it hid in a different way he/she would have done it? It seems to me like when you hide a cache back different than how it was placed by the owner then the cache is not hid as intended. When i find a cache i put it back exactly as i found it because i figure thats how the owner intended it to be. Guess i just can't figure out why someone would do this and thought someone may shed some light on this and share your thoughts on this practice.

[knowschad]

For the most part, you are right. Those logs have been around for at least as long as I have been geocaching (+5 years) If the cache is already hidden, then it should be put back as close to the way that you found it as possible. But there will be times that you find a cache right out in the open... possibly not matching the difficulty rating, but also perhaps simply in plain sight of anybody walking by. In those cases, you would want to hide it better than you found it, hoping to preserve the cache's integrity, right?

[+bittsen]

I haven't been caching all that long compared to a lot of you but there is something that bugs me and was hoping someone can put some logic on it. I have seen in several logs and i think it has been done to one of mine where someone logs "i hid it back better than i found it" Why would someone do this? Don't you think if the owner had wanted it hid in a different way he/she would have done it? It seems to me like when you hide a cache back different than how it was placed by the owner then the cache is not hid as intended. When i find a cache i put it back exactly as i found it because i figure thats how the owner intended it to be. Guess i just can't figure out why someone would do this and thought someone may shed some light on this and share your thoughts on this practice.

 

It's a tough call.

Sometimes a cacher will leave a cache more open than the CO intended it to be. Sometimes a cacher will hide it better.

Its a catch 22.

 

When i come on a cache, I try to imagine how the cache owner intended it to be hidden based on the difficulty rating. Sometimes I might hide a it a little better, sometimes not.

 

I sometimes tell my caching buddy to not hide a cache quite so good. We go back and forth about it sometimes but it always comes back to the diff rating.

[+kissguy&frannyfru]

For the most part, you are right. Those logs have been around for at least as long as I have been geocaching (+5 years) If the cache is already hidden, then it should be put back as close to the way that you found it as possible. But there will be times that you find a cache right out in the open... possibly not matching the difficulty rating, but also perhaps simply in plain sight of anybody walking by. In those cases, you would want to hide it better than you found it, hoping to preserve the cache's integrity, right?

You are right about if it is out in the open and not in its intended spot. I personally know of 2 that were hidden and were hidden back in a different manner (more difficult) than found. I just had one of mine that was actually on a pole,the pole was in the ground,i went to check on it and it had been moved about 10 feet from where i had placed it. Which means someone had to wrestle the pole out of the ground,move it 10 ft to right out in the open and drive it back into the ground and i just don't understand this.

[+brslk]

For the most part, you are right. Those logs have been around for at least as long as I have been geocaching (+5 years) If the cache is already hidden, then it should be put back as close to the way that you found it as possible. But there will be times that you find a cache right out in the open... possibly not matching the difficulty rating, but also perhaps simply in plain sight of anybody walking by. In those cases, you would want to hide it better than you found it, hoping to preserve the cache's integrity, right?

 

I'll have to agree with Cliff here.

 

For the most part I hide em where I find em. But if I find a Tupperware box and some toys scattered around it in the open... I will try to put it in a good place within feet of where I found it.

 

Norm.

[+JesandTodd]

Gees, there have been plenty, and I mean plenty, of caches where I've hidden it better than I've found it.

 

Cammo can be a big clue. It's obvious how some are supposed to be hidden.

 

Some I find sprawled about on the ground.

 

Some I find nowhere near the coords and they do not match their title/rating.

 

Some are obviously exposed.

 

A little common sense goes a long way. If someone says they are rehiding it, they are doing it out of kindness--and probably doing you a favor!

[+briansnat]

I haven't been caching all that long compared to a lot of you but there is something that bugs me and was hoping someone can put some logic on it. I have seen in several logs and i think it has been done to one of mine where someone logs "i hid it back better than i found it" Why would someone do this? Don't you think if the owner had wanted it hid in a different way he/she would have done it? It seems to me like when you hide a cache back different than how it was placed by the owner then the cache is not hid as intended. When i find a cache i put it back exactly as i found it because i figure thats how the owner intended it to be. Guess i just can't figure out why someone would do this and thought someone may shed some light on this and share your thoughts on this practice.

 

It has long been a common practice, but if everybody hid it "better than they found it" then eventually many caches will be unfindable.

 

I've done it myself but only when I'm fairly certain that it is unlikely that the owner wanted the cache left the way I found it.

 

To me it's obvious that a 3 star difficulty that is sitting out in in plain sight (especially in a high traffic area) is not how the cache owner wanted it, so in those cases I will hide it better than I found it.

 

Generally though you should put it back the way you found it. Too many people don't and most of the time it seems they leave it more exposed, so hiding it better is a good practice in those instances.

[+Isonzo Karst]

The old Getting Started article said, "hide it better than you found it"! Now it says, "place it back exactly where and how you found it." Big improvement.

 

when I read "hid it better than I found it" on my caches, I hope that means that they found it somewhat exposed, and put more cover on it.

 

Some of my early hides got "hidden better" to the point that they started getting DNFS, and I couldn't find them either. I learned to tether small or micro caches. Ammo cans are usually findable even if moved somewhat and buried in leaf litter; although I have known of an ammo can hide that got moved, "closer to the coords" and placed in a natural depression, covered in pine straw. Nobody could find it. The owner eventually archived it. The guy who did the hide "improvement" did go back out to locate it, but he couldn't find it either!

[+power69]

I haven't been caching all that long compared to a lot of you but there is something that bugs me and was hoping someone can put some logic on it. I have seen in several logs and i think it has been done to one of mine where someone logs "i hid it back better than i found it" Why would someone do this? Don't you think if the owner had wanted it hid in a different way he/she would have done it? It seems to me like when you hide a cache back different than how it was placed by the owner then the cache is not hid as intended. When i find a cache i put it back exactly as i found it because i figure thats how the owner intended it to be. Guess i just can't figure out why someone would do this and thought someone may shed some light on this and share your thoughts on this practice.

oh i HATE HATE HATE that. that 1.5/1.5 someone turns into a 4.5/1.5 "i hid it better because it was kinda exposed"

[+StarBrand]

Sadly though - nature happens to our caches.

 

Many of mine are hidden with some kind of "natural" camo. Area rocks, area bushes and trees and shrubs. Sometimes long grass and sticks and tumbleweeds. Then the wind, sun, snow, rain, hail and time alter the characteristic of the hide. I appreciate it when some cachers recognize that and spend an extra minute or 2 to rehide it a bit better than they found it - with the nearby natural materials..

[+jellis]

I don't mind minor camo like leaves or rocks. But if your hiding spot is compromised or the finder doesn't know where it was suppose to be then they should contact the owner to let them know where they hid it. I have one someone moved it 5 feet, didn't tell me and the difficulty went from hard to easy. It doesn't sound like much but where I had it there isn't much else around so I went out there to check it. I couldn't find it and I assumed it was missing. I replaced it only to have cachers finding two caches.

[+StarBrand]

I don't mind minor camo like leaves or rocks. But if your hiding spot is compromised or the finder doesn't know where it was suppose to be then they should contact the owner to let them know where they hid it. I have one someone moved it 5 feet, didn't tell me and the difficulty went from hard to easy. It doesn't sound like much but where I had it there isn't much else around so I went out there to check it. I couldn't find it and I assumed it was missing. I replaced it only to have cachers finding two caches.

Moving is whole other issue - sometimes reffered to as cache "migration".

 

Lots of reasons for that. You grab the cache and move off a bit to open it and sign the log then cannot remember exactly where/how it was. Or - you find it and your caching partner "tries" to replace it. Or - a newbie cachers finds it 12 feet from where his units says GZ is - so he moves it 12 feet to help other cachers. Or - It actually got placed back just a few inches off. Or - an animal or natural event moved it. Or - A cacher got lazy and just tossed it back in the general area. Or - the clue made it sound like it belonged over there. Multiple any of those above by a few dozen finders and a few years and some of my caches can be found up to 25 feet from the original position.

Edited January 7, 2010 by StarBrand

[+42at42]

One day I was caching an area and came across 4 or 5 caches that were obviously not rehidden correctly. I rehid them much better than I had found them.

 

When I went to log the finds, I seen that the finder on all the caches was the same family. I was pretty sure that their kid rehid the caches.

 

Most hides covered with bark or branches always require the hiding place to be rebuilt.

 

I never move caches at all even if my GPS says the coords are off or I see a better spot 2 feet away..

[+dibug]

I use this terminology when I have found a cache sitting out in the open with the contents getting wet or ruined. We also followed the same cachers one day and every cache was left laying in the path or just dropped on the ground beside a tree. We have tried to put them where it looked like a co would have hid it and as close to the coordinates as possible.

I indicate that we did this so if the co wishes to check on them they can or can contact us about it. We also found one that had not been found for two years that needed maintenance. It was very easy to fix a new containor exactly like the original one and replace it. After doing this others seemed to take note of this cache in this lovely park and it once again was having visitors.

[knowschad]

Gees, there have been plenty, and I mean plenty, of caches where I've hidden it better than I've found it.

Cammo can be a big clue. It's obvious how some are supposed to be hidden.

Some I find sprawled about on the ground.

Some I find nowhere near the coords and they do not match their title/rating.

Some are obviously exposed.

A little common sense goes a long way. If someone says they are rehiding it, they are doing it out of kindness--and probably doing you a favor!

For the most part, I agree with you, but I think that it needs to be made clear that it is also a great way of helping the cache migrate well away from where it was originally hidden.

[7rxc]

Moving is whole other issue - sometimes reffered to as cache "migration".

 

Lots of reasons for that. You grab the cache and move off a bit to open it and sign the log then cannot remember exactly where/how it was. Or - you find it and your caching partner "tries" to replace it. Or - a newbie cachers finds it 12 feet from where his units says GZ is - so he moves it 12 feet to help other cachers. Or - It actually got placed back just a few inches off. Or - an animal or natural event moved it. Or - A cacher got lazy and just tossed it back in the general area. Or - the clue made it sound like it belonged over there. Multiple any of those above by a few dozen finders and a few years and some of my caches can be found up to 25 feet from the original position.

 

There are also a bunch out there that take the view, it's the finders duty/right to rehide their way...

I found it now it's my turn to hide it... In fact that is the way SOME games of hide and seek are played.

Just not this one. The 'treasure' hunt image doesn't help either, witness the finders keepers image when it comes to trackable items, or even whole cache containers being taken and kept.

 

I watch a couple of catches for owners who don't live locally, and those get re-invented on a regular basis.

One gets taken on a regular basis... not since it was re-invented with the owners permission, touch wood!

One was rehidden to a point where it took me hours just to catch a glimpse of it in its new hide. Another hour or so to figure out how to reach it.. not really hard to grab though... and that was a low rated cache.

 

Not what the owner intended... but it's been doing it's thing fine since then.

I'd say that IF you think the hide has been changed for any reason by you or others, the best route is to protect it from muggling, and let the owner know what/how/where, why you did it... and offer to restore their wishes if possible, or at least they know to check it out... but no way should it be significantly increased in difficulty over what they rated it...

 

Doug

[+Renegade Knight]

I haven't been caching all that long compared to a lot of you but there is something that bugs me and was hoping someone can put some logic on it. I have seen in several logs and i think it has been done to one of mine where someone logs "i hid it back better than i found it" Why would someone do this? ...

 

A common problem is that the cache was hidden well enough by the owner, but finders don't return it to the same level of hide. So cacher #10 comes along and finds it laying out in the open when clearly it was under the log so they hide it back better than they found it and try to hit the owners intent.

 

That's a good thing. It's also different than the ones who didn't like the owners hide and so they hide it like they think it should have been hidden to begin with. Some even post new coords as in "This spot sucked so I moved it 50 north and hid it in a worthy location, here are the new coords."

[Skippermark]

I mostly agree with this, but there are times when it's clear that the hide is not covered as good as originally hidden, such as a container in a hole in a tree with a pile of sticks that have fallen aside, leaving the cache totally exposed. Overall, though, I rehide as found and email the owner if there's a question.

 

A friend hid a multistage cache where each container was hidden the exact same way and totally exposed on purpose. So many people would hide them better, but since they were never hidden better, people would end up moving the hides and putting them in places they never were.

 

He even put a huge note as the first thing on the cache page "DO NOT MOVE THE HIDES. PLEASE LEAVE THEM VISIBLE AND EXPOSED," but people still moved them.

[+BlueDeuce]

I've done it myself but only when I'm fairly certain that it is unlikely that the owner wanted the cache left the way I found it.

 

To me it's obvious that a 3 star difficulty that is sitting out in in plain sight (especially in a high traffic area) is not how the cache owner wanted it, so in those cases I will hide it better than I found it.

 

Even then I'll shoot the owner an email telling them what happened and where it's at and they can decide if it needs maintenance.

[Clan Riffster]

"i hid it back better than i found it" Why would someone do this?

Imagine you own a cache which is an ammo can in a stump. Your hint spells out pretty clearly that it's in a stump. I show up, find the only stump within 50 miles, and there's no ammo can there. By expanding my search, I find your ammo can laying out in the open, where any passerby can see it. It's your cache. Would you rather I hide it like I found it, or hide it better than I found it?

[+JesandTodd]

Gees, there have been plenty, and I mean plenty, of caches where I've hidden it better than I've found it.

Cammo can be a big clue. It's obvious how some are supposed to be hidden.

Some I find sprawled about on the ground.

Some I find nowhere near the coords and they do not match their title/rating.

Some are obviously exposed.

A little common sense goes a long way. If someone says they are rehiding it, they are doing it out of kindness--and probably doing you a favor!

For the most part, I agree with you, but I think that it needs to be made clear that it is also a great way of helping the cache migrate well away from where it was originally hidden.

 

I'm talking more about, replacing the stick or cammo covering it, picking it up off the ground and putting it someplace else, or putting the contents back in and replacing altogether.

 

But each and every time I do that, I leave a note in the log, and send a before and after pic of the cache to the CO.

 

And most CO's don't respond.

 

 

I take pics of each cache with my iPhone so it's no big deal. But I always send that email...

[+skraeling]

I haven't been caching all that long compared to a lot of you but there is something that bugs me and was hoping someone can put some logic on it. I have seen in several logs and i think it has been done to one of mine where someone logs "i hid it back better than i found it" Why would someone do this? Don't you think if the owner had wanted it hid in a different way he/she would have done it? It seems to me like when you hide a cache back different than how it was placed by the owner then the cache is not hid as intended. When i find a cache i put it back exactly as i found it because i figure thats how the owner intended it to be. Guess i just can't figure out why someone would do this and thought someone may shed some light on this and share your thoughts on this practice.

 

It has long been a common practice, but if everybody hid it "better than they found it" then eventually many caches will be unfindable.

 

I've done it myself but only when I'm fairly certain that it is unlikely that the owner wanted the cache left the way I found it.

 

To me it's obvious that a 3 star difficulty that is sitting out in in plain sight (especially in a high traffic area) is not how the cache owner wanted it, so in those cases I will hide it better than I found it.

 

Generally though you should put it back the way you found it. Too many people don't and most of the time it seems they leave it more exposed, so hiding it better is a good practice in those instances.

 

This has actually happened in this area. It was eventually hidden so much better that no one could find it and it ended up being archived. Because it was such a good spot, someone put a new cache there. In the process of thoroughly checking out the area, the old cache was eventually found - hidden better.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Maybe I just have a strange sense of humor. (Okay. No maybe.) It's a magnetic keyholder under a lamp post WITHOUT a skirt. You can park within four feet, and see it! (Yes. That's the way it was intended! AND it has been there for five years!) Until someone hid it better. Oh, well. Guess I just have a strange sense of humor.