School Cache/hides... exceptions?

[+texasgrillchef]

My wife & I fully understand the need and reason that geocaching.com has a rule against placing cache/hides on or near school property. The reasons being obvious on so many levels.

 

HOWEVER.... we feel that their should be a few EXCEPTIONS to the rule.

 

1. If the CO is an employee &/or preferably a faculty member of that school, or a Student group of that school. Such as a technology class, or technology club, or for that matter any other student club. A faculty member such as the principal of the school in question. (At least in the school district that my wife is employed at). The principal is the top person in charge of that school. (Whose office is at that school). Obviously the ISD Superintendant is in charge of all the principals for thier school district. Thus some of the reasons that one wouldn't want a cache/hide on or near school property would be alleviated because the cache/hide would be owned & maintained by the school employee, school, or student group.

 

2. The cache/hide container would be required to have all the "Documentation" listed in & on it. Therefore Nano/Micro caches would probably not be viable in MOST situations.

 

3. If the cache was school sponserd, being from the School employee, classroom, or student group. There would be additional rules that the school &/or ISD would impose as well.

 

4. My wife is on the faculty staff of a elementary school. A classroom & student group have asked her & the principal for information on placing a geocache/hide on the school property. The Principal is all for it. My wife is the considered the "Tech Guru" of the school. Although not in official capacity, & is the reason why they contacted her for help with geocaching as well as placing a cache/hide on school property. She will be "teaching" the class / student group about geocaching as well as gps devices. She will be teaching them all the different ways GPSr's are being used and can be used. Off campus field trips require so much "paperwork" and financial resources as well as creates undue liability that the school doesn't wish to partake off campus field trips except in absolutely required situations, because of this they want to have a cache/hide on school property. This way that can easily monitor and maintain the cache/hide during school hours, without having to make it a field trip. In addition the school just finished a major renovation. During this renovation, video monitoring of all outside school property was installed. So the cache/hide will also be under video survielance 24/7, simply because it's on school property and all school property is now under video survielance.

 

We just mention this to see what others reactions are or would be. If they heard the school that their daughter &/or son were attending was going to have a cache/hide location placed at the school. This cache/hide would be placed by an employee, classroom, or student group of that school. (Where your daughter &/or son might be a member of that classroom &/or student group), how would you feel about this? (assume your daughter/son were going to my wife's school)

 

TGC/WNT

[+ngrrfan]

While all seems "nice, fine, and dandy" on the surface, one can not control the personalities of those who come to seek the cache, i.e. child molesters, sex offenders, etc. If my child was attending the school in question, I'd have a problem with what you are wanting to do.

 

Now for the school to hide their own caches on their property for use as learning devices, and those caches not being publicly published, that is something different.

[+Prof.Sweets]

My wife & I fully understand the need and reason that geocaching.com has a rule against placing cache/hides on or near school property. The reasons being obvious on so many levels.

 

HOWEVER.... we feel that their should be a few EXCEPTIONS to the rule.

 

1. If the CO is an employee &/or preferably a faculty member of that school, or a Student group of that school. Such as a technology class, or technology club, or for that matter any other student club. A faculty member such as the principal of the school in question. (At least in the school district that my wife is employed at). The principal is the top person in charge of that school. (Whose office is at that school). Obviously the ISD Superintendant is in charge of all the principals for thier school district. Thus some of the reasons that one wouldn't want a cache/hide on or near school property would be alleviated because the cache/hide would be owned & maintained by the school employee, school, or student group.

 

2. The cache/hide container would be required to have all the "Documentation" listed in & on it. Therefore Nano/Micro caches would probably not be viable in MOST situations.

 

3. If the cache was school sponserd, being from the School employee, classroom, or student group. There would be additional rules that the school &/or ISD would impose as well.

 

4. My wife is on the faculty staff of a elementary school. A classroom & student group have asked her & the principal for information on placing a geocache/hide on the school property. The Principal is all for it. My wife is the considered the "Tech Guru" of the school. Although not in official capacity, & is the reason why they contacted her for help with geocaching as well as placing a cache/hide on school property. She will be "teaching" the class / student group about geocaching as well as gps devices. She will be teaching them all the different ways GPSr's are being used and can be used. Off campus field trips require so much "paperwork" and financial resources as well as creates undue liability that the school doesn't wish to partake off campus field trips except in absolutely required situations, because of this they want to have a cache/hide on school property. This way that can easily monitor and maintain the cache/hide during school hours, without having to make it a field trip. In addition the school just finished a major renovation. During this renovation, video monitoring of all outside school property was installed. So the cache/hide will also be under video survielance 24/7, simply because it's on school property and all school property is now under video survielance.

 

We just mention this to see what others reactions are or would be. If they heard the school that their daughter &/or son were attending was going to have a cache/hide location placed at the school. This cache/hide would be placed by an employee, classroom, or student group of that school. (Where your daughter &/or son might be a member of that classroom &/or student group), how would you feel about this? (assume your daughter/son were going to my wife's school)

 

TGC/WNT

 

My concern with caches at the school is less about who places it and more about who visits it and when. Unknown people wandering around in the bushes can cause a bit of concern, especially if there are members of the school community who don't know about the cache.

[+gof1]

There are many caches on school property. They all have one thing in common, explicit, confirmable permission. Be prepared for a lot of hard questions from your reviewer.

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Thing is, even with permission some caches are reported to the bomb squad

A cache called “A Knight’s View” has been hidden at Fairview High for just over two years by teacher Darrell Billington.

 

“My administration knew; I also got a district grant for it,” said Billington

[+NYPaddleCacher]

especially if there are members of the school community who don't know about the cache.

 

That's a issue with lots of caches and even more so at a sensitive location.

 

Now matter who you contact to gain permission to place a cache there are going to be others that will be unaware that it's there (or know about the game) that might witness geocachers searching for it. I've got one placed behind a business (run out of a house zoned for commercial use) in a nice garden. When frequenting the business, patrons often will wander around the garden, check out the pond, sit in the gazebo, etc. After obtaining permission from the owner I placed a cache there and whenever I do business there (about every five weeks) I'll print off the most recent logs and bring them in for the owner to see. She's enjoyed reading them so far and get a kick out of watching geocachers search for it . Recently someone went to look for it and was questioned by someone that wanted to know that they were doing. It turned out to be a friend of the owner, who, of course had no idea the cache was there and was just looking out for their friend, the business owner.

 

Now imagine the same situation where the cache seeker is a middle age man, and is looking around the school grounds, and a neighbor wonders what he might be doing.

[knowschad]

There are some. High schools are much more likely to be published, and the farther from the actual school grounds, the better, I'd imagine. As others have pointed out, permission is a must.

 

However, I don't think its a particularily good idea. My first question would be "why would you want to?" Or, perhaps I should say, why does it need to be a published geocache? If your wife wants to show the kids how to use a GPS to find caches, she can hide all the caches she wants on the school grounds. There is no reason to publish them here, though.

Edited August 6, 2009 by knowschad

[+BlueMoth]

Kind of agree with the "no official cache" idea. It would just cause too many problems with strange adults wandering aound the halls and grounds where they really have no business to be. It would only take one, just one, weirdo nutjob to make the whole thing come crashing down. No matter how well monitered the school might be, you really don't want to take that chance do you?

 

Since your wife is the local tech whiz, maybe she could make up an in school page that looks like geocaching.com. The kids could make up their own user names, log on, hide and seek caches, and post logs on their finds. If parents wanted to donate or the school had funds, there could be a supply of GPS for the kids to check out. If not, a map and compass work just as well. Possiblities are endless with the fun the whole school could have.

 

Public cache, sorry, bad idea.

[+Harry Dolphin]

Yes. Why would you want to work so hard to get around the guidelines? There are good reasons for the guidelines. One of which is not to make geocaching look bad in the eyes of non-geocachers.

Permission? All well and good. I did one at a community college, hidden by the music teacher, with permission of the college. Didn't stop the rent-a-cops from following me into the woods, and questioning me.

Did one at a local high school. It was a Sunday morning, so there was no problem. But it was in the rail around the track! Even if it had permission, that was a terrible place to hide a cache.

Why would you want to try to find a way around the guidelines?!?

[+bittsen]

I found one a couple hundred feet from a school. It was placed by the schools 3rd grade class. Their classroom is able to see people looking for the cache.

I thought it was a pretty cool cache. One of my favorite finds because of the cache itself.

[+Sagefox]

 

My concern with caches at the school is less about who places it and more about who visits it and when. Unknown people wandering around in the bushes can cause a bit of concern, especially if there are members of the school community who don't know about the cache.

 

Exactly. Like the time my dad and I searched for a cache on the far side of a grammar school yard, over in the corner, near the woods...

 

I was about 58 with graying hair and dressed for caching in the woods so you can get the picture of these two old guys hanging out at the edge of the schoolyard, rummaging around in the brush. And then three of the cutest little girls ran over to us, all happy like, and very interested in what we were doing and chat with us for a long time. I can just imagine what the playground supervision must have thought about that scene if they saw it. I think the didn't see us because there were no cop visits, at least that I know of.

 

No thanks. I would prefer not to geocache around schools.

[+niraD]

It would just cause too many problems with strange adults wandering aound the halls and grounds where they really have no business to be.

Just because there's a geocache there doesn't mean that geocachers are exempt from normal school policies (e.g., visitors registering at the office during school hours).

 

One of my favorite caches was a multi-cache on a middle school campus. The multi-cache features reproductions of great works of art on the building walls, painted by students under the supervision of one of the teachers. The container itself is on the campus. The school welcomes visitors when school is not in session, and the administration endorses the cache placement.

 

The main problem with this cache has been that kids find it and it gets muggled.

[+aud_world]

The first cache I ever placed was at a middle school I was helping to remodel. I got direct permission from the superindendant of the school. He was very ineterested and excited about caching. I gave him information on geocaching and he plans on sharing it with the appropriate classes. The cache itself is placed at the far edge of the grounds to help eliminate issues. It's in a very small town in the middle of pretty much no place so not too sure who will visit it.

[+DragonsWest]

There are a number of school/class placed caches within 30 miles of where I live. While traveling I had the chance to visit one, also. Most of these have been in parks across or adjacent to school grounds.

[+TeamGeoDweebs]

Lots of schools are erecting fences and requiring everyone on the grounds to have school identification or a pass. Geocaching can be an educational opportunity, but it is probably best to keep them close, but not on, school grounds. Maybe a neighboring park?

[+Prime Suspect]

If you want to do a cache as a school project - fine. But that can done without placing it on school property. If you're only interested in the thrill of watching someone look for the cache, get over it.

[+jasondulac]

If you want to do a cache as a school project - fine. But that can done without placing it on school property. If you're only interested in the thrill of watching someone look for the cache, get over it.

I totaly agree with you.

I atually found out about geocaching through an out door education class I was taking at school for are exam we had to hide a cache the rules were it had to follow the guide lines are teacher actually made us copy down all the guide lines word for word on paper. the other rule was it couldn't be more then 3km from the school so we could maintain it. out of the three that were hidden only the one me and my partner hid is still active here's the link if you want to check it out Twisted Trees

[Motorcycle_Mama]

The other option if the intent is merely to use the caches in order to teach the students, then just place whatever caches you want on the property without listing them on Geocaching.com and maintain your own list for the students.

[Mr.Yuck]

There are many caches on school property. They all have one thing in common, explicit, confirmable permission. Be prepared for a lot of hard questions from your reviewer.

 

Yeah, I'm local to Gof. There is an unusally high concentration of school teacher placed caches on school property in our area in one school district. Off the top of my head, I think there are 8 caches at three different elementary schools. Every single cache page mentions explicit permission from the principal.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that I believe what the OP proposes is already in effect.

[+Gitchee-Gummee]

We visited a multi the other day. It was placed on school grounds as a class project, supervised by the teachers -- I think a different teacher for each stage. It was not in the school itself (I think that would be a definite no-no), it was along a fairly long nature trail through the woods on school property. The school, BTW, is in an outlying area of a not-so-populated territory.

 

The cache page information specifically requests cachers not to seek during school hours (and provides them on the page), adding that weekends, holidays and vacation periods are fine to search.

 

This may very well not be good for all schools to do, but this one is set up quite well.

[+flask]

there's absolutley no reason not to allow schools to host geocaches.

 

if i am hunting a geocache at an elementary school during a school day, i march myself right into the main office, introduce myself, and ask if i may hunt their cache.

 

once i have done this, i am a legitimate visitor to the school grounds and no cause for alarm.

 

there's no reason to skulk about in the bushes making people nervous. if it's there with school permission, introducing yourself is a lovely courtesy. if it's not there with school permission, the school now knows about it and it can either be granted permission or be archived.

 

sometimes i think the problem rests as much with cachers attempting to look sneaky as anything else.

sneaky-looking people are cause for alarm anywhere.

 

people playing a game? well, that's different.

 

as for who might come to the school, sex offenders are not premitted by the terms of their release to be present at a school or playground. geocaching sex offenders know better than to try for those caches.

 

offenders who haven't been caught are no more likely to come to the geocache than they are to find any other excuse to be in places where they might find prey.

[GOF and Bacall]

There are many caches on school property. They all have one thing in common, explicit, confirmable permission. Be prepared for a lot of hard questions from your reviewer.

 

Yeah, I'm local to Gof. There is an unusally high concentration of school teacher placed caches on school property in our area in one school district. Off the top of my head, I think there are 8 caches at three different elementary schools. Every single cache page mentions explicit permission from the principal.

 

Basically what I'm saying is that I believe what the OP proposes is already in effect.

 

That's basically what I'm say'n. Not say'n if I think they are a good or bad idea.

[+The Rascals]

I have a cache at the school where I work. I can see it from my window. I have a hard time with it being any kind of problem as it is right by the sidewalk that goes in front of my school with people waking by all the time. It is not like someone is poking around the building proper. I could see that as being a problem.

[+Prime Suspect]

I have a cache at the school where I work. I can see it from my window. I have a hard time with it being any kind of problem as it is right by the sidewalk that goes in front of my school with people waking by all the time. It is not like someone is poking around the building proper. I could see that as being a problem.

Funny thing - every single cache that has caused a problem (evacuations, bomb squad call-outs, etc.), the cache wasn't a problem, right up to the second it became one.

[AZcachemeister]

There are many caches on school property. They all have one thing in common, explicit, confirmable permission. Be prepared for a lot of hard questions from your reviewer.

 

Thing is, even with permission some caches are reported to the bomb squad

A cache called “A Knight’s View” has been hidden at Fairview High for just over two years by teacher Darrell Billington.

 

“My administration knew; I also got a district grant for it,” said Billington

 

there's absolutley no reason not to allow schools to host geocaches.

 

if i am hunting a geocache at an elementary school during a school day, i march myself right into the main office, introduce myself, and ask if i may hunt their cache.

 

once i have done this, i am a legitimate visitor to the school grounds and no cause for alarm.

 

there's no reason to skulk about in the bushes making people nervous. if it's there with school permission, introducing yourself is a lovely courtesy. if it's not there with school permission, the school now knows about it and it can either be granted permission or be archived.

 

sometimes i think the problem rests as much with cachers attempting to look sneaky as anything else.

sneaky-looking people are cause for alarm anywhere.

 

people playing a game? well, that's different.

 

as for who might come to the school, sex offenders are not premitted by the terms of their release to be present at a school or playground. geocaching sex offenders know better than to try for those caches.

 

offenders who haven't been caught are no more likely to come to the geocache than they are to find any other excuse to be in places where they might find prey.

 

They CAN be done, but good judgment will question whether that is really the best place for them.

 

We had one come up in Phoenix recently, and as flask suggests, I went right into the office to ask about it. I wasn't granted permission to go get it immediately, but I did find out that in Arizona school grounds are considered the same as public parks AFTER school hours.

[Boneman65]

Caches on or bordering school property go on my ignore list.

[+mikehoffman]

Kind of agree with the "no official cache" idea. It would just cause too many problems with strange adults wandering aound the halls and grounds where they really have no business to be. It would only take one, just one, weirdo nutjob to make the whole thing come crashing down. No matter how well monitered the school might be, you really don't want to take that chance do you?

 

Since your wife is the local tech whiz, maybe she could make up an in school page that looks like geocaching.com. The kids could make up their own user names, log on, hide and seek caches, and post logs on their finds. If parents wanted to donate or the school had funds, there could be a supply of GPS for the kids to check out. If not, a map and compass work just as well. Possiblities are endless with the fun the whole school could have.

 

Public cache, sorry, bad idea.

[+8D]

Caches on or bordering school property go on my ignore list.

 

Good grief, what has America become? We live in a Country what walls other countrys that have corrupt rulers, flimsy judicial systems and death and destruction is just a number game to a lot of them, yet we shelter our lives so dimly we are concerned about geocaches around school property? I blame this all on Groundspeak in the first place for making it a rule vs a discouragement. If they guy wants to get questioned by cops, then let him. Would you expect the school to sue the cache owner or geocaching.com? No, at the most, they would just ask for it's removal.

 

I just find that all this geocaching needs is LESS rules. Like why the .10 mile spread? Seriously, you guys think caches have feelings and need that much space? I find some places impossible for me to place caches in great spots because they were horded by 1 individual who placed 20 in the park all evenally spaced out, and that leaves me dry. Is there a rule for that? lol rule rule and more rules. It seems as time goes on geocaching moves on into a newer version, so be it. It's still no the same as it use to be. The reason Geocaching.com doesn't allow some of the best places to be used is because they don't want to be liable. Of course that's all fine and dandy, but I myself see it getting old. Perhaps my monthly supscription does nothing but give me online goodies, but I figured with how many tens of thousands of members they would mend ties with the general public for us, and open some doors for us. Leaving it up for normal day average members who work (or retired) to do these kinds of things is difficult. Why hasn't Geocache.com atleast posted PDF file printouts of legal documents we could use to fill out and send to college campuses, state parks, or perhaps to one of the millions of businesses that we pass everyday. Why not just show us how to petition, or submit a letter or document to seek permission if we wanted to? After all, It's not my game I don't make the rules, I just pay it and play it.

[+sbell111]

My wife & I fully understand the need and reason that geocaching.com has a rule against placing cache/hides on or near school property. The reasons being obvious on so many levels.

 

HOWEVER.... we feel that their should be a few EXCEPTIONS to the rule. ...

Good news! What you are requesting already exists.

 

From the guidelines:

Off-Limit (Physical) Caches ...

• Caches near, on or under public structures deemed potential or possible targets for terrorist attacks. These may include but are not limited to highway bridges, dams, government buildings, elementary and secondary schools, and airports.
  

There may be some exceptions. If your cache fits within one of the above areas, please explain this in a note to the reviewer. If you are given permission to place a cache on private property, indicate this on the cache page for the benefit of both the reviewer and people seeking out the cache.

If you have received explicit permission to hide the cache on school property, explain that on the cache page and include the contact information in a reviewer note so they can verify the information if they wish. Be aware that this may be one of the scenarios that your reviewer will need you to get approval directly from TPTB. If so, he/she will let you know.

Edited August 11, 2009 by sbell111

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Caches on or bordering school property go on my ignore list.

I just find that all this geocaching needs is LESS rules. Like why the .10 mile spread? Seriously, you guys think caches have feelings and need that much space? I find some places impossible for me to place caches in great spots because they were horded by 1 individual who placed 20 in the park all evenally spaced out, and that leaves me dry. ...

Here's a prime example of why we need the 0.1 mile guideline:

 

 

You may be able to squeeze a couple more caches in the park depending on where the rest of those multicaches are, but look at all that land around it. Yes, there is a lot of private property but there is still plenty of space for caching. Spread things out more and cover the entire map with caches, not just the area covered by the park.

[+Castle Mischief]

This is really up to the following people: the cache hider, the property owner and the reviewer.

 

Talk it over with these three people(s) and ignore nearly everything else you've read here.

 

I have found a cache on school grounds. The Guidelines do allow for exceptions.

 

If you don't want to find it, don't hunt it.

 

Geocaches are not sex offender magnets.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Castle Mischief

[+Prime Suspect]

We live in a Country what walls other countrys that have corrupt rulers, flimsy judicial systems and death and destruction is just a number game to a lot of them, yet we shelter our lives so dimly we are concerned about geocaches around school property?

[+sbell111]

We live in a Country what walls other countrys that have corrupt rulers, flimsy judicial systems and death and destruction is just a number game to a lot of them, yet we shelter our lives so dimly we are concerned about geocaches around school property?

I understood every single word in that post. However, once they were all strung together, I couldn't make heads or tails out of any of it.

[+Prime Suspect]

We live in a Country what walls other countrys that have corrupt rulers, flimsy judicial systems and death and destruction is just a number game to a lot of them, yet we shelter our lives so dimly we are concerned about geocaches around school property?

I understood every single word in that post. However, once they were all strung together, I couldn't make heads or tails out of any of it.