Putting a cache on a commercial site with perm?

[Q-Clan]

Hi - I am new to this (born yesterday!) - so sorry if this question has been asked many times before...

 

I would like to put a cache on a site which I think is fascinating. Unfortunately, you have to pay to get in. Obviously I would need the permission of the trust that owns the land but what I don't know is whether this is allowed in the 'rules'.

 

I would put a note in the log advising that you should only look for it if you are willing to pay to enter the location (a living museum site).

 

I am sure that the trust would be happy to be part of this - especially if they get a few more people through the gates as a result.

 

Can anyone advise?

Cheers,

Nadeem

[+The Wombles]

Not permitted because of the admission fee, even if it is a charity. Guidelines here.

 

Oh, and welcome

Edited April 18, 2009 by The Wombles

[+keehotee]

Not permitted because of the admission fee, even if it is a charity. Guidelines here.

 

Not strictly true.... there is nothing in the guidelines expressly forbidding caches where you need to pay an entrance fee - in fact Groundspeak themselves refer to Access or parking fee in their suggestions of what constitutes specialist equipment....

(in the list of attributes you can apply to your cache)

Edited April 18, 2009 by keehotee

[Tooeygeotrashed]

When in Florida there were a great many caches where one had to pay an entrance fee in order to hunt for the cache, which came as a surprise to me I must say. All parks there appeared to be privately or state owned, most of the parks I visited required an entrance fee, I think it just needs to be stated on the cache page that this is case. But then again the goal posts keep moving in this game so I would ask a reviewer. If it isn't allowed and you think it a really cool place then try and get permission to place one close to the attraction - it means then that visiting the attraction is optional but you have done your best to bring it to peoples attention. You can always lead a horse to water etc..................

[+Alfiegeorge]

..... place one close to the attraction - it means then that visiting the attraction is optional but you have done your best to bring it to peoples attention. You can always lead a horse to water etc..................

 

As a, sort of, example of what Tooey suggests, have a look at this cache listing GCKB3W. The clues required to solve the Mystery cache and locate final co-ords are inside a "paid-for" attraction (incidentally the entrance fee, again, goes to charity) but the cache is outside of the site - only about 100m from the entrance.

 

Feasibly, the clues' answers can be sourced on-line and the mystery solved in this way and hence the cache found for free but, the easiest and most enjoyable solve is paying to visit the attraction.

 

Does this give you any ides for a compromise solution to the cache you want to set?

[Q-Clan]

Thanks AlfieGeorge and Tooey (and everyone else who has helped),

That sounds like a great way of doing it.

It is a fantastic location and the example you linked to has inspired me to have a go.

May take a while to set up well but the location should make it an interesting find.

Thanks for your help.

Nadeem

[+sTeamTraen]

There are two issues here: permission to place the cache and getting it listed.

 

If you want to place a cache somewhere, you generally need permission from whoever owns or manages the land. Certainly, if it's inside something like a zoo or country park, you would need to ask for permission. If you don't get it, you can place it somewhere else and turn it into a Multi (probably) cache, where there are "Question to Answer" stages in the zoo, park, etc leading to the box outside.

 

Whether the cache is in the zoo, park, etc, or not, if you are sending people in there as part of the cache hunt, and they have to pay, then you will need Groundspeak's approval. The basic rule is that if the location is not-for-profit, then your reviewer can usually give the OK (exceptions may apply), whereas if it's a commercial business, your reviewer cannot OK it, but Groundspeak can. In this latter case, your reviewer may initially refuse the cache (because Groundspeak only gives this exception rarely), and suggest that you write to Groundspeak and state your case.

[+Haggis Hunter]

I had this issue only last week when I was embarrased into paying £4 per head to get into a park. I was embarrassed because there was no mention of having to pay and the person in the kiosk shouted at me you have to pay to enter the park.

The caches were ok, but the park certainly didn't come up to the value of £4 per head.

[+Guanajuato]

I had this issue only last week when I was embarrased into paying £4 per head to get into a park. I was embarrassed because there was no mention of having to pay and the person in the kiosk shouted at me you have to pay to enter the park.

The caches were ok, but the park certainly didn't come up to the value of £4 per head.

Interestingly, a quick google for Dalkeith Coutry Park throws up midlothian council tourist sites that have recommended walks through the park, none of which indicate ANY entry fee. So it does look like its a very recent thing.

 

Two possibilities: The owner has suddenly realised he can charge the public (and £4 seems rather extortionate!) or someone has set up a scam along the lines of the type of thing in 'the real hustle'.

Either way, it should be mentioned on the cache page.

[+Haggis Hunter]

Interestingly, a quick google for Dalkeith Coutry Park throws up midlothian council tourist sites that have recommended walks through the park, none of which indicate ANY entry fee. So it does look like its a very recent thing.

 

Two possibilities: The owner has suddenly realised he can charge the public (and £4 seems rather extortionate!) or someone has set up a scam along the lines of the type of thing in 'the real hustle'.

Either way, it should be mentioned on the cache page.

I done the same google and got the midlothian sites and they do mention a possible fee for the use of facilities within the park. Looking at other sites the mention of fees go back a few years.

[+HazelS]

Tatton Park in Cheshire is just like what HH talked about. I had never been there before, but when Wherigo's were born, one sprung up there. The Wirral and N Wales cachers had a fabulous day out there, but we were sprung for £4.50 "Parking" fee per car - eeek, we'd taken 3 cars!

 

I found out later that this was your "entry into all the attractions" at the park (admittedly, this is quite a lot) but we weren't going to the house, or the exhibitions, we were looking for tupperware!!!

[+Pieman]

Tatton Park in Cheshire is just like what HH talked about. I had never been there before, but when Wherigo's were born, one sprung up there. The Wirral and N Wales cachers had a fabulous day out there, but we were sprung for £4.50 "Parking" fee per car - eeek, we'd taken 3 cars!

 

I found out later that this was your "entry into all the attractions" at the park (admittedly, this is quite a lot) but we weren't going to the house, or the exhibitions, we were looking for tupperware!!!

Or you can park in the Knutsford town carpark by the entrance for a few pence .

[+Dorsetgal & GeoDog]

Welcome Q Clan.

 

As you will learn there are some absolute rules and some sort of best practice advise, the trick is to navigate through them without upsetting toomany folk along the way

 

My best advice would be to give yourselves time to settle in to the game, find a few dozen caches and get a feel for what is about before setting one ... it's good to see what's about to gain inspiration!

 

Good luck & have fun!

[+tsiolkovsky]

Not permitted because of the admission fee, even if it is a charity. Guidelines here.

 

Oh, and welcome

 

I have always though that this was more to do with putting down a cache that had a commercial intent. Such as you have to buy the cache co-ordinates from someone, or a cache advertising some product or service.

 

There is at least one cache in Bristol you have to pay to get in. My advice is make this a cast iron cache find - after all if you have to pay to get at it, out ought to be able to get at it! something the cache in Bristol doesn't guarantee (not that I'm bitter or twisted in anyway ).

 

Tsiolkovsky

[+maxkim]

Kew Gardens in London is another example.... Lots to see once you are in though.... Max

[Q-Clan]

Welcome Q Clan.

 

My best advice would be to give yourselves time to settle in to the game, find a few dozen caches and get a feel for what is about before setting one ... it's good to see what's about to gain inspiration!

 

 

Sounds llike good advice - perhaps I will find a few more, then set a simple Cache and Dash style one while I consider the best way to tackle the one on the historical site.

 

Thanks for all the advice - It does seem to be a subject that people feel strongly about.

Nadeem

[+Renegade Knight]

Hi - I am new to this (born yesterday!) - so sorry if this question has been asked many times before...

 

I would like to put a cache on a site which I think is fascinating. Unfortunately, you have to pay to get in. Obviously I would need the permission of the trust that owns the land but what I don't know is whether this is allowed in the 'rules'....

 

The answer is in the trust's nature. Are they commercial? Then you would need speical permission from Groundspeak. Your approver can't approve it without that permission. This is possible, just not likley.

 

If the trust is non profit or some non commercial equivilent, then it's possible. I have cache inside our local zoo with their help and blessing getting it placed. Approval wasn't a problem.

[reelcutter]

Why not just waymark it

[+keehotee]

Why not just waymark it

 

Aaaaaaaaaaaagh - wash your keyboard in soapy water..... to even suggest such a thing !!!

 

 

[reelcutter]

[Q-Clan]

The trust is non-profit making and they rely on a lot of donations and volunter support to keep going.

I suppose the problem is that I think finding out about the place is just as important as finding the cache. (Am I allowed to say such things?! ;-) I also like the idea of setting up a cache with clues to other locations. (Is this a mystery cache or a multi-cache?)

 

After listening to what people have said so far a possible solution might be...

 

Put all the puzzle information on a web page - so that people could find the cache coordinates without having to enter the museum if they want to. Then place the cache somewhere outside but close to the location.

And for those who are happy to pay to get in, make sure the clues relate to the most interesting items in the location so that they "get their money's worth" and have a nice afternoon/day.

 

The only downside I see is that the cache will have to be one of the micro varieties due to location outside. This would be a shame as my children and I find that looking at the swaps and picking something appropriately themed to trade is a very enjoyable part of the whole experience - and would be particularly relevant here. (I am sure that the trust would grant permission for quite a large cache on the site itself and may even help look after it / donate a FTF prize.)

 

Would it be possible to locate the 'official' cache outside for people to log their find but also have an additional / optional "swap box" inside for anyone who decided to actually go in?

[+janw7256]

Given that the location you want to use is run by a non profit making (presumably a charity), why not PM a local reviewer & ask their advice?

 

Alba, Deciengi & Graculus are the UK reviewers & I'm sure they'd be able to advise you about the detail of what you want to do.

 

Good Luck & i like the idea of a decent sized cache instead of a micro!!

[+tsiolkovsky]

Given that the location you want to use is run by a non profit making (presumably a charity), why not PM a local reviewer & ask their advice?

 

Alba, Deciengi & Graculus are the UK reviewers & I'm sure they'd be able to advise you about the detail of what you want to do.

 

Good Luck & i like the idea of a decent sized cache instead of a micro!!

 

After all those self same reviewers must have approved the 6 Tyntesfield Geocaches (GC1PVZT, GC1PVZN, GC1PVZA, GC19RCZ, GC19RCY, GC19RCX) which were put in by the National Trust themselves. So I imagine the reviewers will have had some good advice.

 

Tsiolkovsky

[Q-Clan]

Thanks for the advice.

I have decided to try a simple multi-cache to get the 'feel for it' first.

I'll work on the Trust site one after I see how the first one is progressing (and hear some feedback from users). As you say - I am sure the reviewers can help.

 

Well, just found out the first one has been published. (Biggin on the Bump)

Combination of a historic airfield, good pub, some interesting street furniture, a circular ByWay walk and a nice view. Phew! Setting it up was a nice way to spend a sunny Saturday. :-)

 

Thanks for your help.

 

Hope it gives enjoyment to others!