Stopped by Homeland Security today

March 3, 2009

They say that you aren't a real Geocaching until three things have happened to you while participating in the game, the sport.

Giving blood by way of thorns.

Being stopped by the Police.

Gotten into Poison Oak or Ivy.

I've given a little blood because of thorns while hunting for caches. Haven't encountered the poisonous plants yet and believe me, I keep my eyes out for it.

I have placed a night cache in a park that includes an off leash dog area and the other half is a very dense stand of tall fur trees. I'd spent two hours yesterday working out the placement of my reflectors and where to place my container. Today, I dug out the area where the container would be placed just enough to nest it nicely and I placed a large rock over it. I was half way into checking the reflectors and double checking my cheat-sheet for the hint when I heard a man's voice say, "Can I talk to you for a moment?"

I replied cheerfully "Sure" while at the same time wondering if I was going to be questioned about the reflectors or what.

The man, accompanied by another man and a German Shepard with a red vest that said "Do Not Pet" introduced himself as "Homeland Security" and explained that someone, the other guy, had seen me bury something.

I explained what I was doing, "Geocaching" and offered to walk them over to where I'd hidden the container. I continued to tell them about the game and when we arrived I uncovered the cache and opened it up. I showed them the Geocache sticker on the container and inside the glow sticks I'd left, the log and explanation sheet on what it was all about.

They were satisfied and apologized.

A while later I spotted the guy and his dog again nearby and called out to ask a question. As it turned out, I thought I'd recognized him. He and the dog has been in the pet supply shop I work part time at. What a small world. I talked a bit more about Geocaching and some of the rules about placement of caches. He apologized again.

I'm still going to avoid the poison ivy.

2k · March 3, 2009

Today, I dug out the area where the container would be placed

?

2.5k · March 3, 2009

Today, I dug out the area where the container would be placed
?

Yeah, that was what stood out to me, too. A cache that is buried is against the guidelines.

Seeing as you even say they were checking you out because "the other guy had seen (you) bury something," it would seem that calling this a buried cache would be accurate.

1.4k · March 3, 2009

And you might want to put on a flak jacket for a couple days.

March 3, 2009

I cannot speak for them, but I have found caches where the ammo box itself is submerged into the dirt and a rock is put on top of it. There is no need for a shovel or anything, just to lift the rock that is on top of it.

1.7k · March 3, 2009

They say that you aren't a real Geocaching until three things have happened to you while participating in the game, the sport.

Giving blood by way of thorns.

Being stopped by the Police.

Gotten into Poison Oak or Ivy.

I guess I'll never be a real Geocachinger, I don't get poison ivy, oak or sumac.

Today, I dug out the area where the container would be placed...

Tsk tsk tsk.

2.5k · March 3, 2009

I cannot speak for them, but I have found caches where the ammo box itself is submerged into the dirt and a rock is put on top of it. There is no need for a shovel or anything, just to lift the rock that is on top of it.

Yes, but the OP talks about "digging out the area" and how they were questioned because someone saw them "burying something." If there is already a spot that can have a rock put on top to conceal a container, that is one thing, but digging... <_<

To the OP: Kudos for being up front about what you were doing with the LEOs. If you had been evasive, you better believe they would have been on the next cacher to come along like white on rice!

3.3k · March 3, 2009

If you are familiar with the forested areas of the west coast, especially northern California, Oregon and Washington you will know that the evergreens can drop incredible volumes of needles. Very similar to Pine needles in other parts of the country. I am guessing the OP was "digging" in those needles by pulling a few inches of them away with his hand. No harm, no foul and no rules violation. Just my guess.

March 3, 2009

They say that you aren't a real Geocaching until three things have happened to you while participating in the game, the sport.

Giving blood by way of thorns.

Being stopped by the Police.

Gotten into Poison Oak or Ivy.

Poison Oak twice already. This last round needed steriod cream ( with a real perscription and no funny "clear" to go with it. )

Scraped and stabbed by thorns and road rash from falling off a boulder

Just waiting on 5-0 to stop me. I'm sure it's coming...

quote]

I guess I'll never be a real Geocachinger, I don't get poison ivy, oak or sumac.

You don't know how lucky you are. Even worse I'm color blind so I can't pick out the shades of green. It all looks the same to me.

March 3, 2009

Whoah, way to go everyone jumping on the OP for one little word. He said it was among dense fir trees - those things drop tons of needles that build up thick layers underneath the tree. It would be easy to scoop some away by hand to make a hollow. No pointy digging implements required.

OP, it`s pretty awesome that the security guy was so cool about it! And now that you`ve talked with him and he`s aware of it, hopefully future finders of your cache will be less likely to get hassled.

March 3, 2009

Actually, the OP said the area was amongst dense "fur" trees. I thought that was a funny typo for a dog park!

Bean

3.9k · March 3, 2009

Okay... you asked... here goes:

First, I was troubled by the OP's repeated mention of having buried the cache. While I am slightly reassured by some explanations from subsequent posters about thick layers of loose duff under fir trees, I still have some questions, and, if it were simply the case that the OP had placed her/his cache in loose fir duff, I suggest that they could have found a far more appropriate word than "buried" to employ.

Next, and I am AMAZED that no one has raised this issue so far, I find it extremely hard to believe that the two men who approached the OP were truly enforcement agents for "Homeland Security", and rather, for a vast number of reasons, I suspect that they were instead two nosy citizens who were trying to bamboozle the OP by pretending to be Homeland Security agents. And, there are a great many dogs that wear red vests bearing signs that read "Do Not Pet", and the vast majority of them are service dogs or support dogs which have been trained to support and assist private citizens with any of a number of disabilities/special needs, ranging from deafness to blindness to emotional support animals (BTW, why is it that whenever I hear of emotional support animals, I soo want to acquire a large elephant and then convince the necessary licensing/certification authorities that the elephant is my "emotional support" animal?)

The simple fact of the matter is that, with a few minor and well-defined exceptions, Homeland Security does not employ "Homeland Security" enforcement agents who patrol parks, city streets or public spaces, and rather, any law enforcement activity would be the responsibility of local law enforcement officers or peace officers, including city police, park police, park rangers and any local sheriff's department.

If any such persons had approached me in a park, or elsewhere, and tried to identify themselves as "Homeland Security agents", I would have demanded that they show me their identification, and, in almost all cases, I am sure that within ten seconds, I would be using my cell phone to dial 911 and report to the police that there were two persons in the park who were accosting me and pretending to be law enforcement officers. Period. Incidentally, it is a felony offense for a person to impersonate a federal law enforcement agent, that is, to claim that they are a federal law enforcement or investigatory agent when they are not.

.

6.7k · March 3, 2009

Whoah, way to go everyone jumping on the OP for one little word. He said it was among dense fir trees - those things drop tons of needles that build up thick layers underneath the tree. It would be easy to scoop some away by hand to make a hollow. No pointy digging implements required.

OP, it`s pretty awesome that the security guy was so cool about it! And now that you`ve talked with him and he`s aware of it, hopefully future finders of your cache will be less likely to get hassled.

The OP used the words "dug" and "bury" I don't care about the word count but would just like to know it's all about the pine needles and not a shovel. Other than that his story is similar to hundreds of others and not a remarkable occurrence, although it was probably a bit unnerving when it happened.

OP, many of us have been there. We know the feeling when an officer questions you about something that you aren't even sure you can explain to his satisfaction. I once had six officers question me. They had their guns drawn because someone called 'em and said I had a gun. It was just my flashlight.

March 3, 2009

"(BTW, why is it that whenever I hear of emotional support animals, I soo want to acquire a large elephant and then convince the necessary licensing/certification authorities that the elephant is my "emotional support" animal?)"

Becuz the skunk & porcupine in your backpack just ain't workin' out as planned??

<_<

~*

2.3k · March 3, 2009

For the first time in reading over 3,600 of his posts, we agree with Vinny. I would have had my hand on my pistola if I encountered those wierdos...

20.7k · March 3, 2009

I have never actually been stopped by the police while geocaching. I'm also not allergic to PI, so I'm not sure if I have 'gotten into' it, or not.

I was prepared to discuss digging and homeland security, but why bother? I'll leave those topics to real geocachers.

Edited March 3, 2009 by sbell111

3.9k · March 3, 2009

For the first time in reading over 3,600 of his posts, we agree with Vinny. I would have had my hand on my pistola if I encountered those wierdos...

I am truly sorry that things have finally come to the point where you found, to your horror, that you agreed with me (and yes, I will do my best to ensure that such an embarrassing scenario does not happen again), but yes, the simple reality is that the odds are less than one in a billion that these two men were truly "Homeland Security agents", and rather, they were likely two bored and lonely, and very nosy, retired or unemployed men hanging out in the park in order to while away their time (and to molest innocent geocachers.) Had they accosted me, I would have made absolutely sure that they had each ended up in jail for impersonating a federal law enforcement officer, and I would have also sued them relentlessly for harassment and attempted intimidation. Period.

Interestingly, I seem to be seeing more and more reports in the news media over the past couple of years of people getting busted for having falsely claimed to be a "Homeland Security agent"; I am now seeing such reports of these impostors on almost a daily basis -- one of the more recent ones was the case of the man trying to board a flight at the Miami airport in late February who claimed to be a federal agent in order to get airline employees to allow him to board the plane; he is now in jail. It is almost as if an occult hand had reached down from above and moved these impostors like pawns upon some giant chessboard.

March 3, 2009

A friend of mine is a member of Homeland Stupidity. He dresses in jeans and a button down shirt as he canvasses background information of DHS applicants. Except for the ID, you'd never guess he works for DHS.

If ever there was a department that could be sacrificed for balancing the budget, its that one. Then on the other hand, it is a decent paying 'make-work' job as an employment creation program for dealing with our suffering economy. The horror stories and examples of idiocy is absolutely mind boggling.

Most recently is the decision to require background checks/licensing 'muleskinners'. You know, the people that drive tourists around in horsedrawn buggies? They haul people (and potentially cargo) in a 'vehicle' and therefore fall under the domain of the all knowing, all powerful DHS. I am certain this fabulous attention to detail is keeping America safe from MBEVs (Mule Borne Explosive Vehicles).

I will sleep soundly tonight.

March 3, 2009

I went to school (online) with a guy that worked for DHS and you'd never have known it if he didn't tell you. I also belong to a photography web site and there are A LOT of photographers getting razzed by LEO's for taking photo's. There have actually been law-suits filed against police departments for harassment.

As for "digging" that was mentioned earlier...the OP said, and I quote, "I dug out the area where the container would be placed just enough to nest it nicely and I placed a large rock over it." He wasn't burying his cache, he was just nesting it. To me that means that he was just making sure that it doesn't move. Kind of like taking a 12 inch tall container and putting it in a hole that is 6 inches. The item isn't buried, just "nested."

March 3, 2009

The item isn't buried, just "nested."

Is that like ‘just a little pregnant’?

24.7k · March 3, 2009

...If ever there was a department that could be sacrificed for balancing the budget, its that one....

I'll drink to that.

24.7k · March 3, 2009

The item isn't buried, just "nested."

Is that like ‘just a little pregnant’?

If it's in a bed of needles which can get thick under certain pines, it's not at all buried. Ditto sand. You can move it around quite easily to nest a container.

While pregnancy doesn't come in degrees, how you get there does come in quite a few variations many of won't leave a couple as parents.

March 3, 2009

They say that you aren't a real Geocaching until three things have happened to you while participating in the game, the sport.

Giving blood by way of thorns.

Being stopped by the Police.

Gotten into Poison Oak or Ivy.

Given blood--Check (See "Wild Game Feast" in Mississippi.)

Poison ivy/oak/sumac--Check (See "End Of The Road" in South Alabama.

Police--Check No log, but I promise that I have visited with various members of the Law Enforcement Union---Socially, of course, uh, yeeeaaaah! Socially.

No law enforcement during a cache-seek, though.

3.2k · March 3, 2009

Given blood many times while caching

Gotten Poison Oak many times while caching

Questioned by the law: City Police x 2, Sherrif's Dept. x 3, Highway Patrol x 2

I always just tell the law enforcement folks what I'm doing and there's never been a problem.

6.5k · March 3, 2009

How odd-your cache involves the great movie Buckaroo Banzai...

Although it was filmed entirely on Hollywood soundstages and uses a few local landmarks, some scenes are set in New Brunswick NJ; my childhood home!

Back OT-

Given blood-many time. Last Saturday was the most recent.

Gotten an itch-a few times. I seem to get a slight case on a finger or two every summer.

Stopped by LEO's-heck I've had them stop and help me find the cache!

And I might agree with Vinny too. Unless the HSA dude just happened to be using the dog park for his own use and wasn't there on any official capacity. It just doesn't seem like a spot worthy of high level security, and if it is, you shouldn't have hidden the cache there.

March 3, 2009

Today, I dug out the area where the container would be placed
?
Yeah, that was what stood out to me, too. A cache that is buried is against the guidelines.

Tsk tsk tsk.

These are incorrect conclusions. The cache container was not buried. This was the perception of an observer from a long distance away.

What I stated was:

"I dug out the area where the container would be placed just enough to nest it nicely and I placed a large rock over it."

Why do you feel it necessary to jump to an incorrect conclusion based on half of a sentence?

Let me clarify for those of you who prefer to point a finger before asking for clarification. :lol:

There was a bit of dirt and such in the trunks of the trees, it looked more like decaying bark and whatever the wind had blown in. This was moved of the way and tossed onto the grassy area nearby. No holes were dug. The cache container is "nested" in a hallow that I removed dirt and bark from.

If you are familiar with the forested areas of the west coast, especially northern California, Oregon and Washington you will know that the evergreens can drop incredible volumes of needles. Very similar to Pine needles in other parts of the country. I am guessing the OP was "digging" in those needles by pulling a few inches of them away with his hand. No harm, no foul and no rules violation. Just my guess.

THANK YOU! <_<

3.1k · March 3, 2009

The answer to your question is quite simple.

There are a bunch of people on here that always look for the negative. Looking to find fault. To criticize. To disagree no matter what the topic.

They are not happy unless they are hijacking a topic.

You did nothing wrong. I hope this experience doesn't discourage you from participating in the future. You quickly learn who to ignore.

Edited March 3, 2009 by Tequila

1.4k · March 3, 2009

That would make a fantastic log! Hopefully you will have many interesting stories.. and be able to talk your way out of every LEO encounter! <_<

March 3, 2009

Okay... you asked... here goes:

Next, and I am AMAZED that no one has raised this issue so far, I find it extremely hard to believe that the two men who approached the OP were truly enforcement agents for "Homeland Security", and rather, for a vast number of reasons, I suspect that they were instead two nosy citizens who were trying to bamboozle the OP by pretending to be Homeland Security agents. And, there are a great many dogs that wear red vests bearing signs that read "Do Not Pet", and ... (snip)

OP, many of us have been there. We know the feeling when an officer questions you about something that you aren't even sure you can explain to his satisfaction. I once had six officers question me. They had their guns drawn because someone called 'em and said I had a gun. It was just my flashlight.

My perspective at the time the two men and the dog approached.

#1, The distant observer could have found my activities suspicious. Not only had I tossed some material out of a hiding spot but I also placed a thick, dark 14 inch object there (a water bottle). I had also been "hanging around" for a good hour before then approached.

#2, I prefer to be an Ambassador for Geocaching rather than an antagonist, the smart ars, or confrontational with the citizens I encounter. IMO I would rather to have people understand that there is no harm being done, rather than walking away thinking, "Boy, he was sure a jerk."

#3, I had no reason not to believe that the man and his dog were in the park using the off leash area and the timing of everything just happened the way it did.

I also mentioned in my initial post that I recognized the guy and his dog from my part-time job in the Pet supply store. When I met him that time in the store, he was in some kind of uniform and the dog had the same "official" vest on.

#4, I had a 9 mm pistol under my sweatshirt on my hip. I legally conceal carry. When I am in public with a concealed weapon I take a very non-confrontational stance with the public and any "officials" I encounter. It is my training to avoid making a situation worse than it needs to be and tip the scale into having to potentially use my weapon.

Again, back to rather being the Ambassador than the jerk.

2.5k · March 3, 2009

There was a bit of dirt and such in the trunks of the trees, it looked more like decaying bark and whatever the wind had blown in. This was moved of the way and tossed onto the grassy area nearby. No holes were dug. The cache container is "nested" in a hallow that I removed dirt and bark from.

Thanks for clarifying. The LEO perceived what you were doing as burying, you said so in your post. That is where I was drawing my conclusion from.

Again, good job in being up front with the LEOs.

March 3, 2009

There was a bit of dirt and such in the trunks of the trees, it looked more like decaying bark and whatever the wind had blown in. This was moved of the way and tossed onto the grassy area nearby. No holes were dug. The cache container is "nested" in a hallow that I removed dirt and bark from.
Thanks for clarifying. The LEO perceived what you were doing as burying, you said so in your post. That is where I was drawing my conclusion from.

Again, good job in being up front with the LEOs.

I realized after I went to bed last night that my use of words could easily be misunderstood. In the future I will be careful. Lesson learned. No harm done by anyone else. My bad.

Thanks to everyone for the encouragement about being up front, honest, friendly and understanding to the LEOs (if they were in fact).

24.7k · March 3, 2009

...#1, The distant observer could have found my activities suspicious....

Something like 80% of geocaching behavior fits the bullet point list of things that people up to no good do, that other folks are being trained to watch for and report.

You flat out will draw attention if someone see's you caching.

March 3, 2009

...#1, The distant observer could have found my activities suspicious....

Something like 80% of geocaching behavior fits the bullet point list of things that people up to no good do, that other folks are being trained to watch for and report.

You flat out will draw attention if someone see's you caching.

Truer words have not been posted.

The Home Land Security guy with the dog made it VERY clear to me on our second little chat that people are always making complaints about "someone burying something." They get called. He said, "It's really bad" again refering to this type of attituded from the public.

So, watch out, before long we Geocachers are going to end up on the HLS's list of suspected domistic terrorists. :anicute:

Edited March 3, 2009 by BBI Dragon

6.7k · March 4, 2009

Okay... you asked... here goes:

First, I was troubled by the OP's repeated mention of having buried the cache. While I am slightly reassured by some explanations from subsequent posters about thick layers of loose duff under fir trees, I still have some questions, and, if it were simply the case that the OP had placed her/his cache in loose fir duff, I suggest that they could have found a far more appropriate word than "buried" to employ.

Next, and I am AMAZED that no one has raised this issue so far, I find it extremely hard to believe that the two men who approached the OP were truly enforcement agents for "Homeland Security", and rather, for a vast number of reasons, I suspect that they were instead two nosy citizens who were trying to bamboozle the OP by pretending to be Homeland Security agents. And, there are a great many dogs that wear red vests bearing signs that read "Do Not Pet", and the vast majority of them are service dogs or support dogs which have been trained to support and assist private citizens with any of a number of disabilities/special needs, ranging from deafness to blindness to emotional support animals (BTW, why is it that whenever I hear of emotional support animals, I soo want to acquire a large elephant and then convince the necessary licensing/certification authorities that the elephant is my "emotional support" animal?)

The simple fact of the matter is that, with a few minor and well-defined exceptions, Homeland Security does not employ "Homeland Security" enforcement agents who patrol parks, city streets or public spaces, and rather, any law enforcement activity would be the responsibility of local law enforcement officers or peace officers, including city police, park police, park rangers and any local sheriff's department.

If any such persons had approached me in a park, or elsewhere, and tried to identify themselves as "Homeland Security agents", I would have demanded that they show me their identification, and, in almost all cases, I am sure that within ten seconds, I would be using my cell phone to dial 911 and report to the police that there were two persons in the park who were accosting me and pretending to be law enforcement officers. Period. Incidentally, it is a felony offense for a person to impersonate a federal law enforcement agent, that is, to claim that they are a federal law enforcement or investigatory agent when they are not.

.

Things can be quite different on an international border. I have had occasion to converse with representatives of Homeland Security, INS, US Border patrol, US Customs, and several different local agencies all in local parks. Still, any of them will not think twice about a request for id.

6.7k · March 4, 2009

Today, I dug out the area where the container would be placed
?
Yeah, that was what stood out to me, too. A cache that is buried is against the guidelines.

Tsk tsk tsk.

These are incorrect conclusions. The cache container was not buried. This was the perception of an observer from a long distance away.

What I stated was:

"I dug out the area where the container would be placed just enough to nest it nicely and I placed a large rock over it."

Why do you feel it necessary to jump to an incorrect conclusion based on half of a sentence?

Let me clarify for those of you who prefer to point a finger before asking for clarification.

There was a bit of dirt and such in the trunks of the trees, it looked more like decaying bark and whatever the wind had blown in. This was moved of the way and tossed onto the grassy area nearby. No holes were dug. The cache container is "nested" in a hallow that I removed dirt and bark from.

If you are familiar with the forested areas of the west coast, especially northern California, Oregon and Washington you will know that the evergreens can drop incredible volumes of needles. Very similar to Pine needles in other parts of the country. I am guessing the OP was "digging" in those needles by pulling a few inches of them away with his hand. No harm, no foul and no rules violation. Just my guess.

THANK YOU!

You are the one that used the words "dug" and "buried". The question mark was meant to indicate that clarification was desired. Thank you for jumping to your own conclusions. And no, I'm not familiar with the landscape of any part of California or your local park. Had I been I may not have asked.

6.7k · March 4, 2009

Okay... you asked... here goes:

Next, and I am AMAZED that no one has raised this issue so far, I find it extremely hard to believe that the two men who approached the OP were truly enforcement agents for "Homeland Security", and rather, for a vast number of reasons, I suspect that they were instead two nosy citizens who were trying to bamboozle the OP by pretending to be Homeland Security agents. And, there are a great many dogs that wear red vests bearing signs that read "Do Not Pet", and ... (snip)

OP, many of us have been there. We know the feeling when an officer questions you about something that you aren't even sure you can explain to his satisfaction. I once had six officers question me. They had their guns drawn because someone called 'em and said I had a gun. It was just my flashlight.

My perspective at the time the two men and the dog approached.

#1, The distant observer could have found my activities suspicious. Not only had I tossed some material out of a hiding spot but I also placed a thick, dark 14 inch object there (a water bottle). I had also been "hanging around" for a good hour before then approached.

#2, I prefer to be an Ambassador for Geocaching rather than an antagonist, the smart ars, or confrontational with the citizens I encounter. IMO I would rather to have people understand that there is no harm being done, rather than walking away thinking, "Boy, he was sure a jerk."

#3, I had no reason not to believe that the man and his dog were in the park using the off leash area and the timing of everything just happened the way it did.

I also mentioned in my initial post that I recognized the guy and his dog from my part-time job in the Pet supply store. When I met him that time in the store, he was in some kind of uniform and the dog had the same "official" vest on.

#4, I had a 9 mm pistol under my sweatshirt on my hip. I legally conceal carry. When I am in public with a concealed weapon I take a very non-confrontational stance with the public and any "officials" I encounter. It is my training to avoid making a situation worse than it needs to be and tip the scale into having to potentially use my weapon.

Again, back to rather being the Ambassador than the jerk.

Asking for id from any government representative is not being a jerk. It is you right to know who you are talking to when being questioned by any LEO. If they are on the level they will be happy to prove who they are.

6.7k · March 4, 2009

...#1, The distant observer could have found my activities suspicious....

Something like 80% of geocaching behavior fits the bullet point list of things that people up to no good do, that other folks are being trained to watch for and report.

You flat out will draw attention if someone see's you caching.

Yup.

6.7k · March 4, 2009

So, watch out, before long we Geocachers are going to end up on the HLS's list of suspected domistic terrorists.

Again, yup. Won't be long and walking in the woods will get you on several lists. A camera and a gps will get you stopped and searched if big brother has his way.

3.1k · March 4, 2009

Homeland Security: Fighting Terrorism since 1492

March 4, 2009

Homeland Security: Fighting Terrorism since 1492

and may god bless america!

March 4, 2009

Blood - check - many times.

Poison oak - check a couple of times

Stopped by law enforcement - check - again a couple of times. Although there was the Orange County Deputy that had the bluest eyes. She was very distracting as I tried to explain why I was crawling on my hands and knees around an electrical transformer over 500 miles from home ......

My story can not compare with a retired couple up our way. Detained and questioned by the Feds, cache confiscated. Guess the cache owner didn't think before placing his cache under a bench next to the Federal Court House - DIRECTLY under a security camera.

March 4, 2009

The rules

- Always tell the truth to legitimate public safety officers.

- Always lie to rent-a-cops. Better yet, ignore them or just walk away.

Police, homeland security, etc will not care about geocaching and will let you go your merry way. They will just think you are a harmless nerd geek. (which you are)

Rent a cops will freak the hell out if you explain it to them. Seen this numerous times. Just lie or ignore them completely, they have zero power.

March 4, 2009

The rules

- Always tell the truth to legitimate public safety officers.

- Always lie to rent-a-cops. Better yet, ignore them or just walk away.

Police, homeland security, etc will not care about geocaching and will let you go your merry way. They will just think you are a harmless nerd geek. (which you are)

Rent a cops will freak the hell out if you explain it to them. Seen this numerous times. Just lie or ignore them completely, they have zero power.

Wow, you give terrible advice. Absolutely, lie to the rent a cop, best way to make out. Maybe in California, NOT true in PA. As the owner of a private security company, I can assure you, the rent a cops you are referring to have powers. If you are on property we are contracted to protect, you can be stopped, questioned and detained until the police arrive. So by all means, lie, fib, RUN, do what ever it takes to make geocachers look bad. My staff all know what geocaching is, where the caches are on the properties we serve, and how few truly have permission to be there.

The truth no matter who you are talking to is always the best option/ Even a rent a cop can make life miserable if you give him a reason to, like lying.

March 4, 2009

... and how few truly have permission to be there.

Careful. You don't wanta be lettin' out caching's biggest "secret".

~*

Edited March 4, 2009 by Star*Hopper

March 4, 2009

Okay... you asked... here goes:

Next, and I am AMAZED that no one has raised this issue so far, I find it extremely hard to believe that the two men who approached the OP were truly enforcement agents for "Homeland Security", and rather, for a vast number of reasons, I suspect that they were instead two nosy citizens who were trying to bamboozle the OP by pretending to be Homeland Security agents. And, there are a great many dogs that wear red vests bearing signs that read "Do Not Pet", and ... (snip)

OP, many of us have been there. We know the feeling when an officer questions you about something that you aren't even sure you can explain to his satisfaction. I once had six officers question me. They had their guns drawn because someone called 'em and said I had a gun. It was just my flashlight.

My perspective at the time the two men and the dog approached.

#1, The distant observer could have found my activities suspicious. Not only had I tossed some material out of a hiding spot but I also placed a thick, dark 14 inch object there (a water bottle). I had also been "hanging around" for a good hour before then approached.

#2, I prefer to be an Ambassador for Geocaching rather than an antagonist, the smart ars, or confrontational with the citizens I encounter. IMO I would rather to have people understand that there is no harm being done, rather than walking away thinking, "Boy, he was sure a jerk."

#3, I had no reason not to believe that the man and his dog were in the park using the off leash area and the timing of everything just happened the way it did.

I also mentioned in my initial post that I recognized the guy and his dog from my part-time job in the Pet supply store. When I met him that time in the store, he was in some kind of uniform and the dog had the same "official" vest on.

#4, I had a 9 mm pistol under my sweatshirt on my hip. I legally conceal carry. When I am in public with a concealed weapon I take a very non-confrontational stance with the public and any "officials" I encounter. It is my training to avoid making a situation worse than it needs to be and tip the scale into having to potentially use my weapon.

Again, back to rather being the Ambassador than the jerk.

Very well said. IMHO, you reacted very appropriately.

9.3k · March 4, 2009

Another angle to consider is that the guy with the pooch may be a non-enforcement DHS employee.

As one of the most bloated agencies on the planet, they have gobs of employees who have no law enforcement authority what so ever.

Maybe he was a clerk? A janitor? An office manager? Who knows...

3.9k · March 4, 2009

Another angle to consider is that the guy with the pooch may be a non-enforcement DHS employee.

As one of the most bloated agencies on the planet, they have gobs of employees who have no law enforcement authority what so ever.

Maybe he was a clerk? A janitor? An office manager? Who knows...

Yes. Living in the DC area, I have several friends who work in Homeland Security administration. When I ran the OP's tale by them, their reaction was that the tale, as related, was literally impossible, for, they told me, Homeland Security, with few exceptions, does not have its own enforcement agents, and rather, it is largely an umbrella agency which manages or coordinates law enforcement agencies such as Customs, the FBI and numerous other federal enforcement agencies. And, they have advised me, the idea that two "Homeland Security agents" would have been on duty in a park in Oregon is largely beyond belief. So, they found the whole idea as ludicrous as did I. And, I agree that if these two men worked for Homeland Security at all, it is likely that they were clerks or analysts or maybe IT staffers, rather than field enforcement agents!

.

19k · March 4, 2009

Maybe the guy with the dog will show up at the pet store again, and we can get to the bottom of this once and for all.

24.7k · March 4, 2009

...So, watch out, before long we Geocachers are going to end up on the HLS's list of suspected domistic terrorists.

I've had both FBI and TSA documents about geocaching/ers being mistaken as suspects due to behaviors cross my desk.

We aren't suspected so much as something to watch out for when trying to find the real people they are concerned about.

Edited March 4, 2009 by Renegade Knight

2.9k · March 4, 2009

Lets see:

Donated Blood at a cache find......Many Times

Poison Oak......nope

Poison Ivy........nope

Stinging Nettle (just as bad as above).......Many Times

Stopped by the cops...... Wyoming once ( there was a jailbreak near by)

Michigan once (parking over the fog line)

Wisconsin many times

Barry and Valarie of sweetlife

Stopped by Homeland Security today

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