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calvin brown

Please only take for trade of another coin or TB

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I just got this reply for one of my caches. I'm new to this but have seen at least two other caches that have used the trade for equal value or coins only. I've also seen a book only trade cache. What do you guys think? What do the rules state on this matter? Thanks.

 

Me:

"There is a very cool Geo Coin inside as well. Please only take for trade of another coin or TB. Thanks."

 

Note for my cache:

"This is typically frowned upon and looked at as a TB/Geocoin prison.

TBs and Geocoins are menat to be moved and are not part of the "trade even" philosophy.

The owners of said items expect their items to be moved along without resrtictions of having to trade for it since you can't keep it.

 

To ask somebody to trade for something that isn't yours isn't fair.

 

I hope you see this as educational and not an attack.

 

Congrats on getting published!"

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...61-58bb10b9d61e

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You cant enforce that trade requirement, merely encourage it. Now if it was a puzzle cache, you could make the puzzle cache requirement that finders must swap a geocoin to log the cache. However such an ALR (additional logging requirement) can't be enforced on a traditional cache.

 

I for one would never read that anyway and just trade as I see fit. Sometimes I trade, some times I leave, and sometimes I take. There are geocaches that have resident geocoins not meant to be removed from the cache and I do honor and respect that type of request. But with regular trade items I take/trade/leave them as I see fit.

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I just got this reply for one of my caches. I'm new to this but have seen at least two other caches that have used the trade for equal value or coins only. I've also seen a book only trade cache. What do you guys think? What do the rules state on this matter? Thanks.

 

Me:

"There is a very cool Geo Coin inside as well. Please only take for trade of another coin or TB. Thanks."

 

Note for my cache:

"This is typically frowned upon and looked at as a TB/Geocoin prison.

TBs and Geocoins are menat to be moved and are not part of the "trade even" philosophy.

The owners of said items expect their items to be moved along without resrtictions of having to trade for it since you can't keep it.

 

To ask somebody to trade for something that isn't yours isn't fair.

 

I hope you see this as educational and not an attack.

 

Congrats on getting published!"

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...61-58bb10b9d61e

 

Sorry Cal, but I think you'll get zero support for your "please only take for trade of another coin or TB" in this forum. And if this thread get's moved over to the Travel Bug forum, you'll get less than zero support, if that's possible. :D

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I just got this reply for one of my caches. I'm new to this but have seen at least two other caches that have used the trade for equal value or coins only. I've also seen a book only trade cache. What do you guys think? What do the rules state on this matter? Thanks.

 

Me:

"There is a very cool Geo Coin inside as well. Please only take for trade of another coin or TB. Thanks."

 

Note for my cache:

"This is typically frowned upon and looked at as a TB/Geocoin prison.

TBs and Geocoins are menat to be moved and are not part of the "trade even" philosophy.

The owners of said items expect their items to be moved along without resrtictions of having to trade for it since you can't keep it.

 

To ask somebody to trade for something that isn't yours isn't fair.

 

I hope you see this as educational and not an attack.

 

Congrats on getting published!"

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...61-58bb10b9d61e

 

When I find a cache that has the you can only take one if you trade one rule I generally clean the cache out and move the prisoners to another cache. The Travel bugs and geocoins are not yours, you don't get to set the rules on them. Its your cache, but I'm only letting you play with my coin if your nice. Sorry, no support from me.

 

Jim

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Geocoins and TBs are not trade items so they should move freely from cache to cache without any notion to be traded out of the cache. Just my thought. :D

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I have no doubt that you've seen caches like this; there are many. But as you've seen already, it's not a well-received idea. The problem is, a TB or coin gets put in there, then it doesn't get moved until someone else comes along with another. That may take ages, with dozens of finders in the meantime who would otherwise be able to help the item along.

 

A theme for the trade items, like books, is completely different. You can trade or not; no one else is affected by what you choose to do. But people tend not to stick to the theme anyway.

 

As an aside, trackables aren't considered by most to be trade items. It's fine with most people if you take a TB and don't leave something. The reason again is that the TB's purpose is to move, and presumably, the person is going to place it again somewhere, not keep it for himself.

 

As another aside, I commend you for asking this question in the forums without automatically being defensive about it. That doesn't happen often.

Edited by Dinoprophet

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I am moving this thread from the Geocaching Topics forum to the Travel Bug forum.

 

In passing, I note that a reviewer would not publish a cache with a trackables trading requirement as an ALR.

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The goal of the Trackable item supercedes the goal of the cache owner. Trackables are meant to travel.

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"There is a very cool Geo Coin inside as well. Please only take for trade of another coin or TB. Thanks."

 

The geocacher who left the note on your cache was doing you a favour Drew!

 

Imagine that you purchased a geocoin, you pay with your PayPal, wait for two weeks and it finally arrives. You activate your new geocoin and get a cool icon for your profile. You drill a hole in your geocoin and attach a mission tag that states "Please take me to St. Augustine, Florida". You take your geocoin and release it in a Bay area cache and it immediately gets picked up by a geocacher who takes your geocoin and places it in a geocache they own and then tells all the geocachers who visit "I have a very cool geocoin in this cache and it has to stay here if you don't have another geocoin as a replacement."

Do you feel left out?

It is your geocoin, you selected the mission, it is your adventure.

 

Activated travel bugs and geocoins are not placed to add interest to caches, they are not placed to attract visitors, they are not a reward and they are never a trade item. Every geocoin and every travel bug is owned by another geocacher and we can connect to those geocachers when we help with the mission or generate a log telling them their item is OK.

No one should restrict the movement of trackable items. Every geocacher who can help move a trackable item should try and help. Along with the geocache the TB is one of the two basic gamepieces in geocaching.

Any type of restriction on movement is a demonstration of disrespect for the owner of the item or a lack of understanding regarding trackable items.

 

Doing everything you can to help traveling items is a reward in and of itself. TB's allow you to connect to geocachers in other locations and helping with the mission they have selected for their TB can change your adventures. A trip to help another geocachers TB achieve a mission goal is really an adventure that the Travel Bug owner is helping to create.

 

Here are some other good trackable item tips;

When you encounter trackable items try and help them out by moving them, take and move as many as you can help.

If you are not able to move them then try and mention the TB's you see in a geocache.

Try and mention them distinctly, rather than "Saw a geocoin" or "Saw two TB's" say "Saw a Red Handed Geocoin" or "Saw the Keychain TB and the the Rooster TB", this can let an owner know their item is OK.

Report trackable items that are missing and see if they have been logged out in the logbok, if they have been logged out in the logbook mention that as well.

Go ahead and take pictures and create moments for the TB, this can reward you and the items owner.

Never disclose the code on the attached tag, make sure it isn't in pictures and don't leave it written in logbooks or online logs, it is intended to be seen only by the geocacher handling the item.

 

TB's can really add enjoyment to this activity. When you start helping TB's out and moving them around you are really getting the best that this activity has to offer, a chance to connect to other geocachers and share their adventures.

Edited by wavector

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If you are not able to move them then try and mention the TB's you see in a geocache.

Try and mention them distinctly, rather than "Saw a geocoin" or "Saw two TB's" say "Saw a Red Handed Geocoin" or "Saw the Keychain TB and the the Rooster TB", this can let an owner know their item is OK.

 

Good advice. What I do is keep a small notebook with me and write down the tracking codes of the bugs/coins that I don't take with me and log a discovery on that bug. That automatically generates an email to the bug/coin owner and gives them a heads-up that their bug is still alive and well in that cache.

 

I think alot of hotel owners have a notion that if their cache is without TB's, it somehow diminishes the caches status as a TB Hotel. WRONG. An empty hotel indicates one of two things: either bugs/coins are constantly moving in and out, which is EXACTLY how a hotel is supposed to function or there isn't alot of people dropping their bugs off to start with and the location of the cache might not be an attractive spot to keep bugs on the move.

 

Bruce

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Hi Calvin. Like everybody else I am against the trade of trackable items at geocaches. The main reason I'm replying though is to echo Dinoprophet's response and say you did take a chance by asking this question in a very open forum and you should be commended for asking a question you thought stood a fair chance of receiving not so positive of feedback from other geocachers. Lots of people ask questions, but they don't always learn from the answers they get and you did so congratulations. I checked out the link for your cache and I see you've removed any reference to trading of trackables, very commendable! It takes a big person to admit they made a mistake and for being that big person you get my vote for geocacher of the day (sorry there is no such distinction for geocacher of the day, but if there was you'd get my vote). Also, I commend the people that replied for educating and not making a personal attack on the Op. Happy caching!!!! :rolleyes:

Edited by Michigan Cacheman

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I just got this reply for one of my caches. I'm new to this but have seen at least two other caches that have used the trade for equal value or coins only. I've also seen a book only trade cache. What do you guys think? What do the rules state on this matter? Thanks.

 

Me:

"There is a very cool Geo Coin inside as well. Please only take for trade of another coin or TB. Thanks."

 

Note for my cache:

"This is typically frowned upon and looked at as a TB/Geocoin prison.

TBs and Geocoins are menat to be moved and are not part of the "trade even" philosophy.

The owners of said items expect their items to be moved along without resrtictions of having to trade for it since you can't keep it.

 

To ask somebody to trade for something that isn't yours isn't fair.

 

I hope you see this as educational and not an attack.

 

Congrats on getting published!"

 

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_detai...61-58bb10b9d61e

 

 

If it's a travel bug prison, I'll generally release the inmates and not incarcerate any there :D

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As owner of a hotel, I have to add that if you decide to host a TB hotel, then you have to be willing to scout out trackables to populate it when it is empty. I try to be sure that at least 1 trackable is present at all times. It's nice to see that folks do drop off more than one at times. People often trade which is nice. But people do take them and it does run low sometimes. Then I make an effort to go find a cache that has a trackable that I can put in my hotel. I also try to pick them up at events and when I do, they usually go into my hotel.

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We think that if your going to help someone by moving their TB than there is no reason that you have to replace it with another one.

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As owner of a hotel, I have to add that if you decide to host a TB hotel, then you have to be willing to scout out trackables to populate it when it is empty. I try to be sure that at least 1 trackable is present at all times. It's nice to see that folks do drop off more than one at times. People often trade which is nice. But people do take them and it does run low sometimes. Then I make an effort to go find a cache that has a trackable that I can put in my hotel. I also try to pick them up at events and when I do, they usually go into my hotel.

Personally I'll have to disagree with going out and harvesting trackable items from other caches in the area to keep yours populated. To me that just does not seem right. However, after viewing your TB Hotel site I was glad to see that at least you did not place any movement restrictions on trackable items. So while we disagree on a fairly minor point we apparently agree that movement restrictions by a TB Hotel owner are bad. Based on that I would not mind one of my trackables being placed in your TB Hotel. Happy caching!!!! :yikes:

Edited by Michigan Cacheman

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As owner of a hotel, I have to add that if you decide to host a TB hotel, then you have to be willing to scout out trackables to populate it when it is empty. I try to be sure that at least 1 trackable is present at all times. It's nice to see that folks do drop off more than one at times. People often trade which is nice. But people do take them and it does run low sometimes. Then I make an effort to go find a cache that has a trackable that I can put in my hotel. I also try to pick them up at events and when I do, they usually go into my hotel.

 

No, you don't have to scout them out. A good hotel will invite its own guests, and doesn't need to drag them in off the street, unwillingly. Hotels are not completely booked everyday. Sometimes guests move on, later someone else takes the room. But the maid has to come in sometime. The natural movement of a trackable is to go from cache to cacher to cache to cacher to cacher to event to cache, etc...... You should not have to scout them out to fill your cache. Personally, I wouldn't want my own trackable to be used as bait for someone's cache. I just want it to collect fun stories, photographs, and take me to the places I will never be able to go. My TB's would prefer camping in plain old caches rather than resting on their laurels in some 3 star hotel.

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If a travel bug hotel is in a good spot for the quick and easy exchange of travel bugs, then an empty hotel won't stay empty long. People are always looking for a convenient place to drop bugs off. The owner of a well-placed hotel should actually be pleased if the hotel is occasionally empty, since it shows that the hotel is serving its purpose: to get bugs moving quickly. And if a hotel does stay empty for long periods of time without the cache owner continually raiding other caches to re-stock it, then it's not a good place for a travel bug hotel.

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As owner of a hotel, I have to add that if you decide to host a TB hotel, then you have to be willing to scout out trackables to populate it when it is empty.

 

You shouldn't have to worry about "populating" your hotel with TB's, they should arrive and leave with other geocachers and your only concern as a cache owner shoud be continued good maintenance of the cache. Taking trackables going your way from an event is helpful, visiting other local geocaches to take the TB's to place in your TB hotel is not helpful.

If you travel a long distance on a regualr basis then finding trackables you can help with missions and staging them in a cache you own prior to transporting them is helpful but going out to move trackable items into your own cache doesn't serve any purpose other than aggregating items in a single cache. Trackable items are much more secure when they are in many different caches.

You should reconsider this practice, it is not helpful to the owners of the trackable items. It can also lead to resentment from other cache owners who see your continued visits to take TB's not as an attempt to help the trackable items but as an attempt to help yourself.

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I always use The Sands Of Waikiki (now archived) as an example of a cache that inherentlly attracts a lof of travelers (without being labelled as a Hotel). It had over 600 Finds, and over 600 travellers pass through it.

 

What made it popular was that it was close to where tourists stayed (right on the beach). It was convenient to get to (have a mai tai and walk a few steps on the beach at sunset), easy to find, had nice views (bikinis and sunsets :yikes: ) and was large enough for a few bugs and coins.

 

Putting a cache somewhere and labelling it a TB Hotel won't necessarily make it a spot for rapid TB turnover. It needs to be very convenient for people coming to your area (tourists, passing through, etc). The cache needs to be "attractive" to non-locals - easy to find/get to, etc. The locals are not likely to revisit a cache just to grab a traveller.

 

Or, it needs to be at someplace like a rest area - My RI Rest Area - I-95 Southbound is on a major N/S highway, with plenty of people passing by. It is a regular sized cahce (vice a micro) so people will stop, especially with travellers, knowing someone will be passing through from Boston to points south. Loads of vacationers and people visitng families.

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Or, it needs to be at someplace like a rest area - My RI Rest Area - I-95 Southbound is on a major N/S highway, with plenty of people passing by. It is a regular sized cache (versus a micro) so people will stop, especially with travelers, knowing someone will be passing through from Boston to points south. Loads of vacationers and people visiting families.

A "travel bug hotel" at a highway rest area is not a good idea, since such a cache has a high risk of being found by non-geocachers and thus becoming lost or stolen. When this happens, all of the travel bugs in the cache at that time become lost.

Edited by Highpointer

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I would agree that marking your cache as being for trade of a trackable is a bad idea and asking for trouble. As I see it, if you wanted to place your own trackable in the cache and put on the trackable's page that it may only be moved if one is dropped off in its place, you are only restricting the movement of your own trackable and accept that it may sit in on location for long periods of time. I would think this idea would be more acceptable in the community as YOU are settig the mission to say something like "Please only take this TB/Coin if you have dropped off another like item." I may not agree with a mission like that myself, however, it is after all, your TB/Coin to send off as you please. So while it is frowned upon to put a TB/Coin restriction on a cache itself, it may be slightly more acceptable to put the restriction on the TB/Coin itself.

 

I would tend to view this as slightly positive, since if you have that TB/Coin, you would be seeking out caches with other TBs/Coins to help move along given the "trade" request. But remember if you go this route, there is no real way to ensure that this happens each and every time unless you want to make enimies with the geocaching universe.

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Finding a TB/coin is an added bonus. They are not meant to be for trade. I have 16 different TB's/ coins and some times I will swap a TB for one I find. My very first one that I sent out in the wild went missing. Somebody thought that it was a cool smokey bear tb. Hope it that it turns up again someday.

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