Puzzle or Multi?

[+9Key]

OK forum, I have a dilemma. I have a cache that I've put together that has two stages. The posted coordinates will take you to the first stage, where you will need special equipment in order to obtain the coordinates to the final. I will not be describing what type of special equipment you will need.

 

So, that being said, should this be listed as a puzzle cache, or a multi with a high difficulty rating? If it's a multi, what should the diff rating be? 5, since it requires special equipment?

 

Edit - spelling

Edited December 17, 2008 by 9Key

[+fox-and-the-hound]

We have something similar and it's listed as a multi with a higher difficulty. I've seen others listed both ways though. Maybe we need a new listing type?!!

[+andGuest]

Will it be apperent what type of equipment you will need? If it is not apperent then I may list it as a puzzle. If the equipment needed is apperent I would rate it as follows. Very special equipment that most geocachers would not have then a 5 for "special equipment". If it is something that many cachers may carry out of experience (Leathermen, Gerber, multitool, pocket knife, tweezers, mirror, flashlight to name a few) then I would rate it based off of locating the stages plus maybe .5. I would make sure it is apperent that you need special equipment and that you may have to make multiple trips. I would also set it up that the final is not out of the way due to the possiblity of multiple trips.

[+StarBrand]

Hmmmmm - how special?? I've seen a local one that required a star shaped screw driver of an odd size. It was listed as a multi with a difficulty of 2.

 

(we hmmmm "bought" and then later returned a screwdriver set from a nearby hardware store to accomplish the task.........{the clerk mentioned 3rd time it had been returned})

[+wavector]

OK forum, I have a dilemma. I have a cache that I've put together that has two stages. The posted coordinates will take you to the first stage, where you will need special equipment in order to obtain the coordinates to the final. I will not be describing what type of special equipment you will need.

 

So, that being said, should this be listed as a puzzle cache, or a multi with a high difficulty rating? If it's a multi, what should the diff rating be? 5, since it requires special equipment?

 

Edit - spelling

 

That is a traditional.

 

I had a cache, now archived, that required a special tool. People didn't need the special tool to find and retrieve the cache but I am pretty sure (almost certain) that no one would have retrieved the cache without the special tool unless they were very well equipped. The special tool had it's own hiding spot that was very near to the cache coordinates (30 feet from the cache) so technically it was a multi. The site leant itself well to a GPS and most people could get satellites on every channel when they were there so the coodinates were distinct but just real close, I also gave the exact location of the tool in the description.

 

I proposed that this cache should be listed as a Traditional (Difficulty 4) and in the cache description I placed a set of coordinates and the phrase, "You might need this." The proximity of the tool to the cache was just one factor, the tool was special and even though I made it tools performing the same function could be found in some tool stores.

 

The reviewer allowed it as a Traditional primarily because I argued that I would just not provide the tool. The cache was a 4 for difficulty because there are geocachers who can find and retrieve almost any cache using their own ingenuity and the supplies they carry when they go geocaching.

 

I have always felt that the provision for "special equipment" referred to items that no one would take geocaching, like a boat or pitons and ropes. I really didn't want it listed as a puzzle, that limits the number of geocachers who will search for it.

[sdarken]

Sounds like a multi to me. The need for special equipment doesn't change that.

 

(The previous poster must have missed the fact that there was more than one stage. It's definitely not a traditional).

Edited December 18, 2008 by sdarken

[+Harry Dolphin]

Yes. It's a multi.

[+wavector]

Sounds like a multi to me. The need for special equipment doesn't change that.

 

(The previous poster must have missed the fact that there was more than one stage. It's definitely not a traditional).

 

The special tool had it's own hiding spot that was very near to the cache coordinates (30 feet from the cache) so technically it was a multi.

 

I didn't miss that at all and have several caches that are technically multis because they have stages, making stages doesn't always put a cache in the multi category.

Technically, the cache I discussed was a multi, it had two stages, it was listed as a traditional.

I just got it listed so the first stage was a note in the coordinates. I was able to do that because even though technically it was a multi, it played more like a Traditional. The fact that the special tool could arguably be avoided was advanced to secure it being listed as a Traditional.

 

This cache is a multi, it has two stages as well but it is listed as a Puzzle because when you find the first stage you don't get a set of cocordinates leading you to the second stage.

 

9Keys cache needs a special tool to get coordinates to the final stage, technically it is multi but may well fall within the puzzle category and if proximity to the final is an issue, like it was for me, then the reviewer may listen to any logical argument advanced, this is especially true for novel ideas.

 

Just the fact that 9key is here asking should clearly be an indicator that this is a novel cache.

Edited December 18, 2008 by wavector

[Skippermark]

I'd list it as a multi. Special eqipment doesn't make it a puzzle, but it could effect the difficulty rating.

[Skippermark]

Maybe we need a new listing type?!!

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[+edscott]

I have one that is sort of on the line also. Stage one takes you to a spot where there are numbers on a stone. Do some simple 4th grade math with those numbers and get coords for the final. It's listed as a Multi, but has been a puzzle for some.

[+edscott]

Apparently my "fatal error" wasn't so fatal after all....

Edited December 18, 2008 by edscott

[Skippermark]

Let us know when it gets posted. I'd like to see people's reactions. It sounds like it'll be fun.

[+ZSandmann]

9Key I'd list your cache as a Multi with a Difficulty of 5 (if the tool is not common). As long as the coords to stage two are at stage 1 I would not consider that a puzzle.

 

I have a maths Multi, you have to read some signs to determine the coords for stage 2 and 3 but it is simple math and therefore I listed it as a multi instead of puzzle. Hope this helps.

[+9Key]

Thanks for the feedback folks! I also emailed my reviewer and he said the same thing, a multi with a high diff rating. The tool in question is not something very many people have. My guess is 90+% of cachers will open the cache and go "what the heck do I do now?!".

 

I will post a link to the cache here when it gets published.

 

Edit: email me if you'd like to know what it is that I'm doing with this cache.

Edited December 18, 2008 by 9Key

[+helennbrian]

seeing wher 9key is from, I'm wondering if the special tool is an Allen Key

[Skippermark]

I was thinking it was a telephone keypad. 1-9, but there's actually an extra key, a 0 on there plus the * and #.

[janx]

I'd assume the following about cache types:

traditional: cache is at the coordinates posted (disregarding inaccuracies inherent in GPSr tech)

Puzzle: listing gives clues to coordinates, cache is at the coordinates posted (disregarding inaccuracies inherent in GPSr tech)

Multi: listing gives coords to first clue of how to find the cache, cache is NOT at the coordinates specified in the listing

 

In reality, Multi's are often puzzles. The first cache gives clues to the second, and so on. Technically a multi could just list the coords to the next cache in the multi, but few that I've seen do that.

 

Probably a real clue is that each point on a multi would meet the requirements of a real cache (log book). Whereas, a puzzle cache is about making you find/figure out the elements needed to get the final coords. Except for the final, each coord doesn't have to be qualify as a traditional (no logbook, might be a sign with another clue).

[+wimseyguy]

If there is something to find at the posted coords, then it should be a multi with an extra D* or two for the additional effort involved in finding the cache.

If you list it as a puzzle you run the risk of another cache being published too close to your first stage.

[+fizzymagic]

If there is something to find at the posted coords, then it should be a multi with an extra D* or two for the additional effort involved in finding the cache. If you list it as a puzzle you run the risk of another cache being published too close to your first stage.

That is incorrect. Since he will be using the Extra Waypoint feature to enter the coordinates of all stages (including the final) there is no difference between a puzzle and a multi.

 

For me, I would probably make it a puzzle, since the information you need to find the final will not be immediately and obviously available at the posted coordinates.

[+eigengott]

I will not be describing what type of special equipment you will need.

 

I dislike those caches. Most cachers will have to come twice: The first time, so you can have a laugh on them because they have the wrong equipment and the second time to actually find the cache. To me that kind of humor has no apeal at all.