Describe a 5 star Hide to me...

[+StarBrand]

missing the OP - but I'll guess...

 

 

5 * terrain is terrain that absolutely requires special equipment to get through or to. Ropes, Climbing gear, scuba equipment, radiation suit etc.... In theory - anything short of equipment needed would rate at most a 4.5.

 

5 * difficulty would require several trips and several days to locate once you arrive at the location. Also a particularly difficult to complete puzzle. Think a black painted "nano" container placed somewhere on the jungle of metal surfaces and bolt heads found on the bottom of a black painted railway car. All shaded the same and located where you need a flashlight to see anything.

[+Mugiwara Kaizoku]

**** Sorry, I lagged out when putting this in ****

 

5 star difficulty is what I'm referring to, not terrain. I'm up against some good competition around here and am wanting to increase the difficulty ratings. I know there is a scale I can use on GC, I'm just looking for some hints or pointers, maybe even a few good stories about Difficulty 5 Hides.

[+Kit Fox]

The closest i've seen to a five star difficulty was a fake ivy leave hidden in a giant planter filled with ivy, and Cypress bushes.

 

 

The creator of the "Shelter series" in Indiana has seemed to come as close as you can get.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Kit Fox

[+Kit Fox]

The closest i've seen to a five star difficulty was a fake ivy leave hidden in a giant planter filled with ivy, and Cypress bushes.

 

 

The creator of the "Shelter series" in Indiana has seemed to come as close as you can get.

Edited September 8, 2008 by Kit Fox

[+Renegade Knight]

**** Sorry, I lagged out when putting this in ****

 

5 star difficulty is what I'm referring to, not terrain. I'm up against some good competition around here and am wanting to increase the difficulty ratings. I know there is a scale I can use on GC, I'm just looking for some hints or pointers, maybe even a few good stories about Difficulty 5 Hides.

 

Two local cachers hid two caches (without being aware of the other) and got them both listed in the same general area. At that time the caching community had to hunt them all to have anything at all to find. All the regulars went for these caches. Most of us failed to find one or both. The challenge became which cacher would be the first to find both. Several trips and 50 gallons of gas later, I finally got lucky. Not because I had the talent but because a nOOb I brought did.

 

Both hide styles had never been seen before in the area. Both were unique. Both took multiple trips to find, and then only if you had the right angle to your search. Neither were needle in the haystack finds. It was more of a frame of mind thing.

[+carleenp]

I've never seen a traditional cache with what I would really consider a 5 difficulty hide. I have seen multiple puzzles that I think qualify.

 

From what I have read of the Shelter mentioned before, that seems like it would qualify.

[Neos2]

I've seen and heard about some hides that I considered pretty tough. They are all still active, so I can't be too specific, but...

 

I did a four-star hide I really looooved. Once you get near the cache, the camouflage is so good it takes ages to find it (Not because it's tiny--it's not-- but just because it looks like it is something else--something that is supposed to be there). Not only that, but even after you find it, you have to figure out how to get it open.

 

I haven't done any of his hides, but Iowa Tom has some along those lines. He's told me about a few of them, and shared some tips. I'm sorry he lives so far from me (or maybe that's man am I glad I don't have to hunt his caches ). They come highly recommended.

[+Mugiwara Kaizoku]

After I posted this question I found this cache:

another case of wish I lived there (almost glad I don't).

 

Mario's Tower

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I've never seen a traditional cache with what I would really consider a 5 difficulty hide. I have seen multiple puzzles that I think qualify.

 

From what I have read of the Shelter mentioned before, that seems like it would qualify.

 

The Shelter series demonstrates a good metric for determining the difficulty rating; Number of DNFs compared to number of Finds. I haven't seen anything that approaches Shelter III.

 

There is a local cache that has a pretty good ratio. It's a nano cache the same color of a large metal object. It's about the size of a tank and has about as many hiding places. There are a couple of factors that influence the difficulty as well. It was first published as a three but I suggested that it be upgraded to a four and from all the finds I've made I think the rating is pretty accurate.

 

I've seen formula for attempting to rate a cache that often include the number of possible hiding places, the size of the container, how well it blends in (or whether it can be found at all by sight). One could create a 5 star difficult by using a very small cache, hidden in a spot where there are a very high number of hiding places, and hide it such that it could only be discovered by "feel". While the use of "soft coordinates" (intentionally publishing with incorrect coordinates) is highly discouraged, there are lots of caches hidden in places which get marginal GPS reception. Challenging conditions can certainly impact the difficulty and produce a 5 star difficulty.

 

I once found a cache in a rocky gorge (read; hundreds of potential hiding places) when my GPS was telling me I was still 30' off when I found it and showed an accuracy of 95'. Fortunately, the container wasn't small and the hiding spot was a very obvious hole that looked ripe for hatching an ammo can.

[+Juicepig]

one that is there but noone can find

[+BlueDeuce]

I haven't done any of his hides, but Iowa Tom has some along those lines. He's told me about a few of them, and shared some tips. I'm sorry he lives so far from me (or maybe that's man am I glad I don't have to hunt his caches ). They come highly recommended.

 

This guy has his own forum section in our local club. One time he asked me to pre-trial one of his cache listing, -just to work out the kinks. I was basically lip-fumbling after the first half hour. When it comes to caching, ya gotta love those science teachers!

[+niraD]

The few 5-star difficulty hides that I've found have all required special equipment/tools of some sort (to solve a puzzle, or to see something during the hunt).

 

Most of the 4- and 4.5-star difficulty hides that I've found have been puzzles, including some that take a lot of effort even after you (finally) figure out how the puzzle works. Those that have been traditional caches have been well-hidden micros, including one of the best "question your mindset" camouflage jobs I've found.

[+briansnat]

5 * terrain is terrain that absolutely requires special equipment to get through or to. Ropes, Climbing gear, scuba equipment, radiation suit etc.... In theory - anything short of equipment needed would rate at most a 4.5.

 

Special equipment isn't necessarily required for five star terrain, though for a cache to be true 5 star terrain I would think that it would usually be needed.

 

As far as 5 star difficulty hides I'm willing to bet that there are very few true 5 star difficulty caches. I've see many that had very few DNFs. For something to be 5 star difficulty it would have to be incredibly hard to find, nearly impossible for the average cacher, unless he spends several days or weeks on it.

Edited September 9, 2008 by briansnat

[+WVangler]

Granted, I've only found 101 caches as of this evening, but the one I found this evening was a 5 star nano and it deserved a high ranking. (GCXEXT) Now it only took me about 1 1/2 hours worth of time to find it and I can imagine it gets much more difficult than that. Personally, if it has as many 'didn't find' logs as 'found' logs I'd say it is pushing the envelope of a 5 star. If a cache had twice as many 'didn't finds' then I'd say it is goes beyond 5 star to the just ridiculous level.

Edited September 9, 2008 by WVangler

[+NYPaddleCacher]

Granted, I've only found 101 caches as of this evening, but the one I found this evening was a 5 star nano and it deserved a high ranking. (GCXEXT) Now it only took me about 1 1/2 hours worth of time to find it and I can imagine it gets much more difficult than that. Personally, if it has as many 'didn't find' logs as 'found' logs I'd say it is pushing the envelope of a 5 star. If a cache had twice as many 'didn't finds' then I'd say it is goes beyond 5 star to the just ridiculous level.

 

Congrats on your find. If the cache is where I think it is, I've been considering a nano in a similar spot but was probably only going to rate it a 4. The introduction of the third dimension to the search can certainly make a hide a lot more difficult. For the cache I previously described that was initially rated a 3, I spent over 3 hours over four separate attempts searching for it before I finally found it. Several other local caches with over 1000 finds to their credit spent a considerable amount of time looking for it as well. It currently has 21 DNFs to 14 finds and most of those finds are from people that had previously posted DNFs.

 

As far as the automatic 5 star rating for a cache that requires special equipment/skills goes; I personally think that this is overused and is generally a bad idea. When using a 5 star difficult rating on, for example, a cache that requires the use of a boat it doesn't factor in the level of skill or distance that may be required to retrieve the cache. A cache 200' on a island in a small protected pond in a warm water climate would get the same rating as a cache on and island 1 mile offshore the coast of Alaska. In the first case, someone with limited skills in a kayak or canoe could easily get to it and if they capsized that worst thing that would likely happen is they'd have a short swim to shore. A capsize (which due to open water conditions would be far more likely) in waters off the coast of Alaska 300' from shore has the very real possibility of resulting in a death. Hypothermia is a very dangerous thing.

[+briansnat]

If a cache had twice as many 'didn't finds' then I'd say it is goes beyond 5 star to the just ridiculous level.

 

A true 5 star difficulty should be at the just ridiculous level. There should be very few, if any finds on a

true 5 star.

 

If a relatively novice cacher can find a cache in an hour and a half, no way is it a 5 star difficulty. After looking at GCXEXT I'd say it probably should be about a 3 star difficulty, the definition of which is:

"Challenging. An experienced cache hunter will find this challenging, and it could take up a good portion of an afternoon."

 

There are many so-called 5 star difficulty caches out there that are way over rated.

Edited September 9, 2008 by briansnat

[+sataraid1]

If a relatively novice cacher can find a cache in an hour and a half, no way is it a 5 star difficulty.

 

Luck trumps skill.

[+BigFurryMonster]

The introduction of the third dimension to the search can certainly make a hide a lot more difficult.

 

Maybe you can get permission to plant a cache at N 48.8583 E 002.2945 ..?

[+infiniteMPG]

Luck trumps skill.

Definitely! Have some difficult puzzle caches in the area and on one of them, the FTF said that he and his wife had been working on it for a long time when their 5-year old son walked up, looked at the screen and pointed out what they'd been missing for hours. Some puzzle caches should be 5's and are not, like Phoney Music here, it's only a 4 and I got the FTF on it and in about 5 months that's the only find.... and that was as much luck as skill

[+sataraid1]

Well, a 5 rated cache doesn't have to be a puzzle, either. If you put a blinkie on an army tank in the park, there's always a chance, however small, that the tiny crevice you placed it in is going to be the first place a hider looks.

 

Long odds, sure, but it IS possible.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

A 1" diameter 4" long bolt, removed from an old train in a train museum yard (with permission!). The shaft of the bolt was cut in half and the top shaft drilled out to fit a paper log inside. The bottom piece of the shaft was welded half-way into a nut. You stuck the bolt through the hole on the front of the train, reached under and twisted the nut on. This made it look and feel exactly like any one of the hundreds of similar bolts on this train, because of course it was one.

 

It's archived now, the owner dropped out of the game, but if I recall of around 200 finders over five years all but a handful had to have a clue, and most had to be shown!

 

I have seen some evil hides, lots of fake bolts, and in fact I own a cache that is rarely found without a clue (Rambler's Evil Micro) but this one was the only true 5-difficulty cache I have seen.

[Skippermark]

A true 5 star difficulty should be at the just ridiculous level. There should be very few, if any finds on a

A friend had a true 5 star puzzle. It was some super complex thing I guess, but on the surface it was simple looking. It sat unfound forever.

 

The owner archived it unexpectedly one day because someone sent him a non-joking threatening note, saying his other caches would disappear, and worse if he didn't give them hints/the solution or whatever they wanted.

 

It had no finds at that time, but someone from outside the area had recently solved it and was planning on making a trip down the next weekend to find it. They provided the cache owner the answer along with a full multi-page step by step description of how they solved it. The owner let him log it as the only find the cache ever had.

[+Wild Thing 73]

In my opinion...these caches ones that I can't find and would never try...which means they are on my ignore list...However, I would never fault anyone for going after this extreme experience....To each is own...I cache for the fun and enjoyment of the hunt. Signing the log and replacing as found. Mostly in the 1.5 to 2.5 range and mostly micros...Large Caches in the wooded area have too much poison plants and briar's, to contend with...I keep a rash of poison ivy, oak, or sumac all summer, which I have right now. My doctor when he sees me coming says Immediately.."poison again"....yep, give the shot and and a prescription for prednisone. I enjoy finding and logging caches and placing caches for other to find and enjoy. Most of my caches can be found and logged without too much trouble, but once in while I will hide a cache that is a challenge. It is all in the type of container and camouflage used that can be the real challenge. Happy Trails

[+WatchDog2020]

Well, a 5 rated cache doesn't have to be a puzzle, either. If you put a blinkie on an army tank in the park, there's always a chance, however small, that the tiny crevice you placed it in is going to be the first place a hider looks.

 

Long odds, sure, but it IS possible.

 

How about a big black train engine

R X R

[+Harry Dolphin]

I can think of one cache that we've done that truly qualifies as 5 stars for difficulty. We worked on it for ten months, visiting most of the waypoints. Got useful infomation from most. Never figured out some. Still couldn't put it all together. Ran it by my brother, who gave me a completely wrong answer, but for the right reason. Then the light bulb went off! AHA!!!! 17 finds in four-and-a-half years. Truly a magnificiently engineered cache, and well worth the 5 stars for difficulty!

[+Zac Young]

Check this out

 

http://cacheopedia.com/wiki/Geocaching.com_Rating_System

[+NYPaddleCacher]

I can think of one cache that we've done that truly qualifies as 5 stars for difficulty. We worked on it for ten months, visiting most of the waypoints. Got useful infomation from most. Never figured out some. Still couldn't put it all together. Ran it by my brother, who gave me a completely wrong answer, but for the right reason. Then the light bulb went off! AHA!!!! 17 finds in four-and-a-half years. Truly a magnificiently engineered cache, and well worth the 5 stars for difficulty!

 

Are you talking about "Five Star New York"?

[+Harry Dolphin]

I can think of one cache that we've done that truly qualifies as 5 stars for difficulty. We worked on it for ten months, visiting most of the waypoints. Got useful infomation from most. Never figured out some. Still couldn't put it all together. Ran it by my brother, who gave me a completely wrong answer, but for the right reason. Then the light bulb went off! AHA!!!! 17 finds in four-and-a-half years. Truly a magnificiently engineered cache, and well worth the 5 stars for difficulty!

 

Are you talking about "Five Star New York"?

 

Yes. That would be the one! Definitely on my Top Five List!

[+Mugiwara Kaizoku]

Check this out

 

http://cacheopedia.com/wiki/Geocaching.com_Rating_System

 

Yeah, but we're talking about describing one, not rating one.

Thanx though...