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The Hornet

By The Hornet
in United Kingdom and Ireland

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The Hornet

+The Hornet

Posted
Posted

Well! What a 3 days :huh: Lots of words written and several people getting banned :)

 

Although unable to contribute here I have of course been reading what people have been saying about me and the circumstances surrounding my temporary ban. While I have been heartened by the great majority of the postings, thank you folks, what has really been frustrating is being unable to reply to some of the things that have been said about me and my motives.

 

As Dodgydaved alluded to in his post, what happened last weekend at Harrogate will remain with me for a very long time and I know I have lots of friends in the UK caching community. Thanks for almost everyone's good wishes in the closed thread, and for what it's worth I think it was right that mandarin closed it when she did. Enough people have been banned over this matter already and I'm sure others would have been if it had continued.

 

It may interest people to know that as a regular "punter" I decided to use the normal appeals procedure as suggested by Eartha, who banned/suspended me originally. Unfortunately (fortunately?) my ban ended before the appeal was considered.

 

I'll spend a little more time before deciding which posts I should express my thoughts about.

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Amberel

+Amberel

Posted
Posted

It may interest people to know that as a regular "punter" I decided to use the normal appeals procedure as suggested by Eartha, who banned/suspended me originally. Unfortunately (fortunately?) my ban ended before the appeal was considered.

With due respect, it seems to me that the issue is wider than just your ban. Is there no means to have the appeal heard as a test case?

 

What it looks from down here at the bottom of the pile is that if Groundspeak's rules and guidelines are applied a little too loosely it is cracked down on, but if they are applied too strictly there is no comeback at all.

 

Rgds, Andy

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The Hornet

+The Hornet

Posted
  • Author
Posted

With due respect, it seems to me that the issue is wider than just your ban. Is there no means to have the appeal heard as a test case?

I don't see the point. My appeal is no different from anyone else's. The process is in place, I'm sure it will be dealt with eventually.

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Amberel

+Amberel

Posted
Posted

I don't see the point. My appeal is no different from anyone else's. The process is in place, I'm sure it will be dealt with eventually.

I think that it is no different from anyone else's IS the point - it's not good that a mod should continue to be able to take this precipitate action in what appears to be contravention of GS rules and guidelines.

 

But if the process is still in place then it's OK anyway, I got the impression that the appeal process had stopped once the ban had expired.

 

Rgds, Andy

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studlyone

+studlyone

Posted
Posted

Its good to have you back again. I am hoping the reason why the appeal wasn't considered before your ban expired was due to its timing over the weekend as otherwise its not a very good system if it takes longer than the 3 day ban. Hopefully it will continue to be looked into and some good will come of all this so we can move on from here.

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Us 4 and Jess

+Us 4 and Jess

Posted
Posted

Who is The Hornet/Peter ? :D It's been that long :) Do we know you? :)

 

Welcome back pet :)

 

I bet your pleased to have your "priviledges" back :huh:

 

Mandy :D

 

I think your response was very similar to mine from last week when I was reported, you have had a huge ammount of support and people backing you, but you also get one or two "devils advocates" B)

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The Hornet

+The Hornet

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Whilst you were on your enforced 'vacation', did you get anywhere with that event at The Crown, in Dilwyn that we were promised a while back? :)B)B)

 

You have to realise that such an event takes a huge amount of research. :blink::)

 

Hi John, no I've done nothing really about organising an event. However I continue to research the facilities :D and can testify to excellent Sunday lunches :D Have you any plans for visiting this area once you're fully "mended"?

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The Hornet

+The Hornet

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Peter just vanished......<snip>

 

Perhaps next time

You Should be a

Nano

Me? Nano?

I wish! :D:D:(:D:D:D

 

The word "vanished" just got me thinking about a nursery rhyme my old mum used to say to my brother (Paul) and I when we were very small. Seems appropriate again now....

 

Two little dickie birds sitting on the wall

One named Peter, one named Paul

Fly away Peter

Fly away Paul

Come back Peter

Come back.............

 

(soon Paul :( )

Edited by The Hornet
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Simply Paul

+Simply Paul

Posted
Posted (edited)

As if on cue...

It's nice to be back, and be able to welcome Peter back. I do feel as if I'm having every word closely monitored though, which feels a tad uncomfortable and restrictive. There may be untold anagrams of rude words in what I'm typing...

 

Appeal news: I've received an email this morning asking-

'Is this an appeals emial?' (sic)

Ticket Details

===================

Ticket ID: xxx-xxxxxxx

Department: Reviewers

Priority: Low

Status: Closed

 

...so obviously I have every hope my complaint is being dealt with seriously. For anyone who missed why I was issued a three day ban without warning, I said <edited by Mod> (later edited to [dadgum]) and [an anagram of a rude word, which is not a rude word, but a brand name] and [another anagram of a rude word, which is also not a rude word, but a name] while making a point about the cultural differences in language; <edited by SP> really isn't a very rude word in the UK, yet we're not allowed to use it on this forum. It seems I underestimated the cultural difference in sense-of-humour and appropriate response (I've recently witnessed a UK moderator, with far less experience, follow correct procedure and amend posts and issue warnings before a ban) too. Still, you've got to laugh, don't you? :(:D:(

 

Edited to get my dadgum to behave(?)

 

<edited by mandarin to remove inappropriate word yet again>

<edited by SP to remove inappropriate word, which is a bit like 'darn', which mandarin missed. I don't want to be accused of not helping and supporting a UK mod. I have received an official warning from her for the use of this word.>

Edited by Simply Paul
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uktim

+uktim

Posted
Posted (edited)

As if on cue...

It's nice to be back, and be able to welcome Peter back. I do feel as if I'm having every word closely monitored though, which feels a tad uncomfortable and restrictive. There may be untold anagrams of rude words in what I'm typing...

 

Appeal news: I've received an email this morning asking-

'Is this an appeals emial?' (sic)

Ticket Details

===================

Ticket ID: xxx-xxxxxxx

Department: Reviewers

Priority: Low

Status: Closed

 

...so obviously I have every hope my complaint is being dealt with seriously. For anyone who missed why I was issued a three day ban without warning, I said <edited> (later edited to [dadgum]) and [an anagram of a rude word, which is not a rude word, but a brand name] and [another anagram of a rude word, which is also not a rude word, but a name] while making a point about the cultural differences in language; dam.n really isn't a very rude word in the UK, yet we're not allowed to use it on this forum. It seems I underestimated the cultural difference in sense-of-humour and appropriate response (I've recently witnessed a UK moderator, with far less experience, follow correct procedure and amend posts and issue warnings before a ban) too. Still, you've got to laugh, don't you? :(:D:(

 

Edited to get my dadgum to behave(?)

 

It's not about cultural differences.

 

Even in the UK it's about context. IF these two words cropped up in threads about english kings or clothing brands it would be fine. When they're randomly dropped into an already controversial thread to cause sensation they are not just the names of a king and some naff clothes.

 

<Posted edited by mandarin to remove inappropriate word. No action taken against this poster as it was a quote from a previous post.>

Edited by mandarin
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uktim

+uktim

Posted
Posted

Who is The Hornet/Peter ? :D It's been that long :D Do we know you? :D

 

Welcome back pet :D

 

I bet your pleased to have your "priviledges" back :(

 

Mandy :D

 

I think your response was very similar to mine from last week when I was reported, you have had a huge ammount of support and people backing you, but you also get one or two "devils advocates" :(

 

If I'm one of the "devils advocates" you refer to I'm afraid I always say what I think, I don't do "devils advocate".

 

If there is going to be discussion on anything there will always be people with differing views. It's clear that some members of the "UK community" need to learn to accept this rather than simply tagging anyone who expresses a view that opposes their own as "devils advocate", "antagonistic", "troll", "sock puppet" etc.

 

A strong community does not need to use such tactics to protect itself, a strong community can accpet different views and maybe even absorb some of them.

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The Birches Head Hunters

The Birches Head Hunters

Posted
Posted
I do feel as if I'm having every word closely monitored though, which feels a tad uncomfortable and restrictive. There may be untold anagrams of rude words in what I'm typing...
There was an issue a few years back where I work, where the system would throw up a warning to the system administrator everytime you mentioned Scunthorpe in an e-mail. :D I'll let you work out why....
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kbootb

+kbootb

Posted
Posted
I do feel as if I'm having every word closely monitored though, which feels a tad uncomfortable and restrictive. There may be untold anagrams of rude words in what I'm typing...
There was an issue a few years back where I work, where the system would throw up a warning to the system administrator everytime you mentioned Scunthorpe in an e-mail. :D I'll let you work out why....

 

We're not allowed to use the word *kill* in e-mail at work. One of my major tasks is delivering "Functional Skills". So most of my e-mails get blocked or auto edited. Functional Skulls is allowed through though.

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uktim

+uktim

Posted
Posted
I do feel as if I'm having every word closely monitored though, which feels a tad uncomfortable and restrictive. There may be untold anagrams of rude words in what I'm typing...
There was an issue a few years back where I work, where the system would throw up a warning to the system administrator everytime you mentioned Scunthorpe in an e-mail. :( I'll let you work out why....

 

It was because the person who wrote the filters was rubbish at his job :(

 

This story has spread far and wide. I'm sure that half the folk who tell it hadn't ever typed the word Scunthorpe until they felt the urge to spread the story. Apologies if you work for Scunthorpe District Council :D

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Team Sieni

+Team Sieni

Posted
Posted (edited)

Welcome back Peter, welcome back Paul. Two little dicky birds sittin' on a wall.

 

I just spent a bit of time trying to make a rude anagram out of "Simply Paul". Paisly Lump was the best I could manage but it's not very rude. (edited to add ... I hope it's not anyway :D )

 

If there is going to be discussion on anything there will always be people with differing views. It's clear that some members of the "UK community" need to learn to accept this rather than simply tagging anyone who expresses a view that opposes their own as "devils advocate", "antagonistic", "troll", "sock puppet" etc.

 

I echo what uktim says. I wasn't arguing "devils advocate" for the sake of it, I just don't like the way people try to drag "cultural differences" and "aren't the Americans awful" into every single modding dispute. The issues with the guidleines were complicated enough without muddying the waters further.

 

A devil's advocate is one who takes a contrary position simply for the sake of argument, without necessarily believing it. Branding anyone who disagrees with you as a "devils advocate" is a way of saying "no one could possibly really disagree with me and actually believe what they are saying, because I am right an there can be no other credible viewpoint".

Edited by Team Sieni
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The Hornet

+The Hornet

Posted
  • Author
Posted
Branding anyone who disagrees with you as a "devils advocate" is a way of saying "no one could possibly really disagree with me and actually believe what they are saying, because I am right an there can be no other credible viewpoint".

Hmm! Sounds familiar.

 

Anyway, good to have both dickie birds (if I'm allowed to use a word that could be misinterpreted as being naughty :D ) sitting on the wall again. As a matter of interest Paul, I received a copy of that e-mail and I don't think it's part of the appeals process. Not having been banned before and never having had to submit myself to the appeals process, does anyone have any experience of it? The reason I'm asking is because although I was handed a 3 day ban very quickly, my appeal has already taken over 3 days and I've still had nothing back apart from a computer generated "auto response". It seems slightly perverse that the appeal should take longer than the original sentence. I would have hoped to have at the very least received a reply saying "we have considered your appeal and disagree, the suspension stands". (I would have preferred a reply saying "we have considered your appeal and agree that our normal procedures were not followed, sorry for the inconvenience" but you know what I mean)

 

There again, I also lodged an appeal against Lactodorum's lifetime ban so I guess that appeal is still current.

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The Hornet

+The Hornet

Posted
  • Author
Posted

.... I also lodged an appeal against Lactodorum's lifetime ban so I guess that appeal is still current.

 

New news to me. What's that all about?

After The Hornet was banned for 3 days, I/Lactodorum posted a single, short message saying if people wanted to contact me on the forum they should do so using my Lactodorum account. One of the Global Moderators (not UK) decided that this was a serious breach of the guidelines against the use of sock puppet accounts and warranted an immediate, indefinite ban.

 

I have appealed and am still awaiting a response.

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Jaz666

+Jaz666

Posted
Posted

.... I also lodged an appeal against Lactodorum's lifetime ban so I guess that appeal is still current.

 

New news to me. What's that all about?

After The Hornet was banned for 3 days, I/Lactodorum posted a single, short message saying if people wanted to contact me on the forum they should do so using my Lactodorum account. One of the Global Moderators (not UK) decided that this was a serious breach of the guidelines against the use of sock puppet accounts and warranted an immediate, indefinite ban.

 

I have appealed and am still awaiting a response.

 

I guess the engraving on the Tankard you received at the Mega is even more poignant now :D

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Crid

+Crid

Posted
Posted

I hope the appeals have some kind of result. I suspect the appeals process is there normally for people to try to get their ban or suspension lifted early. In this case I think the appeal should extend to the moderator(s) responsible for the suspension and ban. Moderation is a big responsibility, but mods should also be accountable for their actions. I don't know if the GS forums have a mechanism to suspend a user from a specific forum rather than all forums, but that would seem to have been a more reasonable kind of suspension for the supposed offence. (As would a warning, as has already been pointed out elsewhere).

 

I hope this post isn't considered "off topic" by Mandarin. I'm figuring it won't, since it's directly related to Lactodorum coming back.

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Simply Paul

+Simply Paul

Posted
Posted

I have been issued a further (or perhaps a first- I've never had a warning before, only a ban. Unless a ban is also a warning..?) warning for using a word a bit like darn, which sounds like a structure used to block a watercourse to form an artificial lake, by mandarin. I'm not sure I want to contribute to a forum where a word which was fine in 1939's Gone With The Wind and has never, ever, EVER offended anyone to the best of my knowledge is enough to get me a warning. Unless this is as personal as I fear it's become, I urge every forum user to think very, VERY carefully before posting *anything* unless you want to run the risk of a warning or outright ban. I just don't know any more; am I going crazy?

 

To respond to uktim, my original post, before it was edited, made it clear why I was using two 'unusual' English words which, unless you move the letters around, aren't profane. I was making a point about language (which is my profession) - a point which appears to have been missed or misunderstood by some, including the non-UK mod who banned me. Context means everything, which is why I included explanations of the words/names below them. The context was that they looked 'a bit like rude words' but weren't, in fact, 'rude words'. I'd say the word that's like darn, but not darn, isn't a rude word either- I've been assured I'm wrong on that one.

 

Team Sieni, for lots of anagram fun, try my actual name: Paul Smith. Just don't post any of your findings here unless you'd like a forum holiday!

 

So, lovely to be back, not so lovely to come back from a nice day's caching to another (tbc) warning. :)

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Simply Paul

+Simply Paul

Posted
Posted

Careful! There's an anagram in there!

 

So, I was curious. I checked a rude anagram of the name of the fish on my snazzy new t-shirt (which I'm only wearing because I'm carping-on) It's been used on 18 threads in the UK alone this year, and it's still out there, unedited, and I assume, unbanned and unwarned for (is that even English?)

 

The word I most recently got a warning for, which is a bit like darn, but isn't darn, is still available to shock and appal on 9 UK threads last added to this year. Well, the word with a dot in it, as I used it. Other versions may also be out there, waiting to pounce upon the unwary and embarrass them in front of their curious children who demand to know what this word, which is a bit like darn but isn't darn, means. After all, granny uses it when she drops her teeth...

 

Interestingly, I did a 'global GS forum search' counted no less than 23 threads which contain the exact same spelling of the word like darn, that's not darn, as I used, which are still in place. Not edited to Dadgum, Dongle or Doofus. Just out there, loud and proud. Oh, and that wasn't this year's figures, that was just threads last added to yesterday. I'll be contacting everyone who used it and didn't have it edited to find out if they received a warning... :)

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Us 4 and Jess

+Us 4 and Jess

Posted
Posted (edited)

I would like to ask another question :)

 

I am not causing trouble here.........really I'm not :)

 

Why is d*** a "bad" word to the Americans ?

 

And what does it mean to an American ?

 

If it is something that cannot be mentioned on the forums or if would risk someone getting into trouble a link pointing me in the right direction would be good :)

 

This is just another reason why the UK forums should be modded only by the UK as it is another "cultural" thing thats means nothing bad to us in the UK but seems to be offensive to those in the USA.

 

Mandy :)

Edited by Us 4 and Jess
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careygang

+careygang

Posted
Posted

I realise that this is not entirely on topic with 'Hello Again' nor the alleged offence that took place, but it is very much part of the subject of Forum posting and censorship thereof...

 

I must say that I find the fixation with, and censorship of, the D*** word in these forums somewhat confusing.

 

Censorship of 'profanity' by the FCC came about due to the antics of the late (died recently) comedian George Carlin, who came up with his 'Seven Dirty Words' act in 1972. Search the internet for him and you'll soon find a list of the words concerned. Later he added 3 more words, giving a total of 10.

 

The thing it, the D*** word is not there. And I've just used this posting preview function to see if this form edits those 10 words, surprisingly it only edits 4 of them. So we now have a situation where the majority of Carlin's profanities are not automatically edited (though I am sure if used a Mod would be right in there with the Red Card), yet the poor little D*** word of Rhett Butler fame (Gone with the Wind) is edited.. :)

 

Let's also not forget that poor 3 letter word that describes a type of Donkey or Mule.

 

Perhaps one of the US Mods could explain who made up the banned list for these forums??

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Izzy and the Lizard King

Izzy and the Lizard King

Posted
Posted

Interestingly, I did a 'global GS forum search' counted no less than 23 threads which contain the exact same spelling of the word like darn, that's not darn, as I used, which are still in place. Not edited to Dadgum, Dongle or Doofus. Just out there, loud and proud. Oh, and that wasn't this year's figures, that was just threads last added to yesterday. I'll be contacting everyone who used it and didn't have it edited to find out if they received a warning... :)

It would be interesting to know if anyone else is getting a warning :)

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Simply Paul

+Simply Paul

Posted
Posted (edited)
Why is dam.n a "bad" word to the Americans ?
And why the hell can I quote someone else's post with it in, with impunity!? (TBC. Possibly I'll be the recipient of a change of GS moderating policy on this one...)

 

I urge Us 4 and Jess to amend her post IMMEDIATELY less she risk a warning or worse!! Haven't you people been listening? That word is a TABOO WORD!!!!!!! (6 exclamation marks so you know I'm serious/have had some sort of breakdown) :)

Edited by Simply Paul
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Us 4 and Jess

+Us 4 and Jess

Posted
Posted
Why is dam.n a "bad" word to the Americans ?
And why the hell can I quote someone else's post with it in, with impunity!? (TBC. Possibly I'll be the recipient of a change of GS moderating policy on this one...)

 

I urge Us 4 and Jess to amend her post IMMEDIATELY less she risk a warning or worse!! Haven't you people been listening? That word is a TABOO WORD!!!!!!! (6 exclamation marks so you know I'm serious/have had some sort of breakdown) :)

 

I know what you are saying Paul and I dont want to cause any trouble as I said in my first post, it is a serious question and I would like to know what it means and why it is offensive.

 

No one should receive any kind of punishment for asking a perfectly serious question that they do not know the answer to.

 

I have searched dictionaries and Wikipedia and I have not found an answer

 

Mandy :)

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Us 4 and Jess

+Us 4 and Jess

Posted
Posted
Why is dam.n a "bad" word to the Americans ?
And why the hell can I quote someone else's post with it in, with impunity!? (TBC. Possibly I'll be the recipient of a change of GS moderating policy on this one...)

 

I urge Us 4 and Jess to amend her post IMMEDIATELY less she risk a warning or worse!! Haven't you people been listening? That word is a TABOO WORD!!!!!!! (6 exclamation marks so you know I'm serious/have had some sort of breakdown) :)

 

I have edited mine but I have been quoted twice.

 

I have decided I am going to email mtn-man (Greg) he has always been OK with me and I am going to ask him why it is a bad word and what it means.

 

Mandy :)

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Simply Paul

+Simply Paul

Posted
Posted (edited)

Check Post #39 too Maddy! I'm glad you've seen sense and removed the offending (is anyone actually, really offended? If so, please, for the love of gawd, get out more!) word/s. You can talk about the word without using the word (but not an anagram of the word? A test: danm. Is that safe? Please advise me rather than warn me...) as you've now demonstrated. Please let us know what you discover from Greg. Carefully. :)

 

I know this is dumb. I know it's ridiculous. I know these rules weren't made up (plucked out of the ether?) by me. :)

 

Edited to add some more sound advice. And again to remove reference to a non-existent (in my belief. Feel free to prove me wrong) yet non-specific deity.

Edited by Simply Paul
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Us 4 and Jess

+Us 4 and Jess

Posted
Posted (edited)

I have emailed Greg who has always been OK with me as I said earlier, and I have explained the situation to him and quoted a few threads from here.

 

I am almost certain I will receive a reply from him and I will try to say what he has said to me here, or if he gives me permission then I will copy and paste his reply into GAGB

 

I wonder if the two UK mods know why it is not allowed/know why it is taboo/offensive or if they are just removing the word because they have been told to.

 

I would appreciate a PM/email from either of them if they could explain this situation to me. :)

 

Mandy :)

Edited by Us 4 and Jess
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