Fishing lure / tangled fishing line cache

[+Kit Fox]

An idea for a fishing lure cache was brought up in the cool caching container thread. Several cachers wanted to emulate the creators idea, and a mini debate ensued. Rather than derailing the thread, I felt it was a better idea to start a new thread.

 

Here is the post I took issue with.

 

"In regards to the fishing lure. I think its a great idea, and best possible hide would be to put in in a tree with some balled up and tangled up fishing line, posing like someone got in stuck there while casting and broke the line in frustration. Heck I would even try to get it placed out on a limb hanging over water to add to the effect.

 

Of course with respect to the environment and littering, you would have to make sure that no fishing line was improperly disposed of and if hanging over water on a limb, you may have issue with some with children ect.

 

I am taking your idea and running with it, I love it."

 

Image from poster.

 

I personally think a cache that is designed to imitate a lure tangled in a tree is bad for geocaching. It is bad from an asthetics viewpoint, it can potentially ensnare wildlife, and it gives geocaching another black eye.

 

What are your thoughts?

Edited July 2, 2008 by Kit Fox

[+TotemLake]

I agree. A bad idea environmentally and aesthetically. We don't need to add risks to wildlife getting ensnared in tangled up lines because they were attracted to something colorful and shiny hanging from a tree.

 

We're supposed to be an ecologically friendly sport where our motto is Cache In Trash Out. I don't see where something that looks like Trash It Out is a good idea.

Edited July 2, 2008 by TotemLake

[+bflentje]

I agree. A bad idea environmentally and aesthetically. We don't need to add risks to wildlife getting ensnared in tangled up lines because they were attracted to something colorful and shiny hanging from a tree.

 

You're kidding, right?

[gonegeofishing]

As a avid fisherman I have toyed with the idea a number of times.

 

The idea seems really fun but the implementation is another story. Bank fisherman are constantly on the lookout for lures that have been lost by other fisherman. On average these lures cost as much as a locknlock type container.

 

Any decent camo on the lure would take away from the novelty of the hide. Without camo this type cache will get it muggled in no time at all.

 

Growing up in San Diego in the late 70's, wadded up balls of fishing line littering the shores was a nasty problem. So much so that many recycle boxes started showing up in the local bait and tackle stores just for used fishing line. It really did make a difference. I have seen more than one bird miserably tangled up in a ball of fishing line.

 

Hopefully some creative cacher will come up with an idea on how to place a lure cache without effecting the environment or reflecting bad upon geocaching. If so, I would like to find it. Until then a wadded ball of fishing line is a rather poor choice.

[+Airmapper]

The idea seems really fun but the implementation is another story. Bank fisherman are constantly on the lookout for lures that have been lost by other fisherman. On average these lures cost as much as a locknlock type container.

 

Any decent camo on the lure would take away from the novelty of the hide. Without camo this type cache will get it muggled in no time at all.

 

I think the idea of a lure as a cache is cool, not so much for the wadded up line. I have to agree with gonegeofishing, I always keep an eye out for lost lures, bobbers, and any tackle I can find. Any cache disguised as a lure would disappear quick.

[+jbhodj & Drake]

I am the reason for the start of this topic in the other thread, so I guess I am somewhat obligated to chime in here and defend my position for moving forward with creating a cache of this type.

 

A quick keyword search revealed that there are some caches, well received, that have been place along similar lines (no pun intended), maybe not exactly like whats being discussed here, but non the less, some creative cache hides involved, bobbers, hooks, lines, sinkers ect. (Keyword search Hook, line sinker)

 

Also, in the interest of CITO, many caches have been made and constructed to represent different forms, including pop cans, doggy doo, piles of green goo, birds nests, ect. Point is, one mans trash is another mans treasure and to be honest, placing an ammo box in the middle of the woods could be considered trash to some. Your argument is going to be that an ammo box wont damage the environment right? Well, its not natural to its surroundings, so the aesthetics of the ammo box just sitting there can be viewed as environmentally unappealing to some.

 

Your point about wildlife (mostly birds) getting entangled in the fishing line maybe valid. You can post numbers, facts, figures, and pics all you want but I have never seen one single animal first hand dead, hanging in fishing line that was discarded. Thats not to say that it does not happen, I just have never ever seen it myself so I can take that stance that it does not happen right?

 

Maybe fishing line may not be the best option for placement, and cotton sewing string or another material could be used instead.

 

I think its possible to create something like this, do it in a sound ecological manner and minimize the doom and gloom risks that you are referring too. I think human ingenuity is the greatest asset and its possible.

 

There is always two sides to every story, its like debating global warming, something I dont believe in. Sometimes you just have to agree that your going to disagree. With that, I think the idea is great for a geocache hide and I like the idea alot and would be well received. If I find a dead Blue Heron dangling from it, I will sure let you know.

Edited July 2, 2008 by jbhodj & Drake

[Skippermark]

Being an avid fisherman, I think the hide is clever, but I don't like the idea of all that loose line. We try to remove line like that whenever we see it.

[+Kit Fox]

Also, in the interest of CITO, many caches have been made and constructed to represent different forms, including pop cans, doggy doo, piles of green goo, birds nests, ect. Point is, one mans trash is another mans treasure and to be honest, placing an ammo box in the middle of the woods could be considered trash to some. Your argument is going to be that an ammo box wont damage the environment right? Well, its not natural to its surroundings, so the aesthetics of the ammo box just sitting there can be viewed as environmentally unappealing to some.[/url]

 

Your point about wildlife (mostly birds) getting entangled in the fishing line maybe valid. You can post numbers, facts, figures, and pics all you want but I have never seen one single animal first hand dead, hanging in fishing line that was discarded. Thats not to say that it does not happen, I just have never ever seen it myself so I can take that stance that it does not happen right?

 

To this day, i've never seen a single photo of an animal entangled in an ammo can. I have seen animals or parts of animals stuck in fishing line on numerous occasions. I've also fished most of my life, and have seen the horrible tangled fishing line messes left by careless people.

 

I've never supported the idea of trash caches, because it gives the idea that geocaches are discarded trash.

An ammo can (if left as a geocache) is technically considered abandoned trash by several National Parks and Forests.

 

Maybe fishing line may not be the best option for placement, and cotton sewing string or another material could be used instead.

 

I think its possible to create something like this, do it in a sound ecological manner and minimize the doom and gloom risks that you are referring too. I think human ingenuity is the greatest asset and its possible.

 

This is where you and I agree.

[+wimseyguy]

I have mixed feelings on the topic. We used this technique for a stage of a nasty multi a few years back, including the hanging from a branch out over the water requiring the finder to balance on a log to avoid getting wet. But this stage proved to be a maintenance PITA and was retired for a more traditional placement.

 

I do agree that it isn't a good idea to use containers that present themselves as trash, so I also archived my hide that was a slim mint tin under a flattened soda can a few years back.

 

So while I do see the fun factor in creating a cache like this, the negative outweighs the positive IMO, especially when we have some land management agencies who are taking a harder look at the impact that cachers have on their properties. I give the concept one thumb up for humor and creativity, but two down for the trache perception and the potential for problems with entanglement.

Edited July 2, 2008 by wimseyguy

[+Renegade Knight]

...What are your thoughts?

 

On the one hand it's a creative new hide. On the other hand there isn't a public land owner in the country who you could sell on the idea even if they loved geocaching already.

 

The benefits are outweighed by the detriments.

[+Kit Fox]

I have mixed feelings on the topic. We used this technique for a stage of a nasty multi a few years back, including the hanging from a branch out over the water requiring the finder to balance on a log to avoid getting wet. But this stage proved to be a maintenance PITA and was retired for a more traditional placement.

 

I do agree that it isn't a good idea to use containers that present themselves as trash, so I also archived my hide that was a slim mint tin under a flattened soda can a few years back.

 

So while I do see the fun factor in creating a cache like this, the negative outweighs the positive IMO, especially when we have some land management agencies who are taking a harder look at the impact that cachers have on their properties. I give the concept one thumb up for humor and creativity, but two down for the trache perception and the potential for problems with entanglement.

 

This is the main issue I see with geocaching today. Cachers keep pushing the boundaries of what is publically acceptable. When caches get lumped into the category of trash, the PR campaign has failed.

[+Renegade Knight]

...I think its possible to create something like this, do it in a sound ecological manner and minimize the doom and gloom risks that you are referring too. I think human ingenuity is the greatest asset and its possible.

 

There is always two sides to every story, its like debating global warming, something I dont believe in. Sometimes you just have to agree that your going to disagree. With that, I think the idea is great for a geocache hide and I like the idea alot and would be well received. ...

 

Call an agency that LIKES caching and bounce the idea off them. If you can sell them on what a great wondeful and creative new hide it is that's well worth doing you will have overcome my main objection.

 

There are two sides to every story but the real quest is to find the truth. The truth is that yes it's a creative new hide that I haven't seen (but looks like it's been done) and that land owners won't like it. Spin it all you want but if you don't make that call you won't know. I could call an agency for you but you probably would not trust my answer.

[Skippermark]

You can post numbers, facts, figures, and pics all you want but I have never seen one single animal first hand dead, hanging in fishing line that was discarded. Thats not to say that it does not happen, I just have never ever seen it myself so I can take that stance that it does not happen right?

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here. Are you saying that because you haven't witnessed something personally that you're going to ignore the fact that it happens?

[O-Mega]

While I wouldn't use a 'tangle' of fishing line to add to the authenticity of such a hide I see nothing wrong with the use of fishing line (or any other string) to secure the container. I have seen many caches use this technique and have a few like this myself. I have yet to see or hear of any problems to wildlife or the aesthetics of an area. As for the actual fishing lure, I think if its hidden a bit from view such as the base of a bush or tree it would work. I have found one like that in a bobber and it looked like it was there for awhile.

[+jbhodj & Drake]

I have mixed feelings on the topic. We used this technique for a stage of a nasty multi a few years back, including the hanging from a branch out over the water requiring the finder to balance on a log to avoid getting wet. But this stage proved to be a maintenance PITA and was retired for a more traditional placement.

 

I do agree that it isn't a good idea to use containers that present themselves as trash, so I also archived my hide that was a slim mint tin under a flattened soda can a few years back.

 

So while I do see the fun factor in creating a cache like this, the negative outweighs the positive IMO, especially when we have some land management agencies who are taking a harder look at the impact that cachers have on their properties. I give the concept one thumb up for humor and creativity, but two down for the trache perception and the potential for problems with entanglement.

 

This is the main issue I see with geocaching today. Cachers keep pushing the boundaries of what is publically acceptable. When caches get lumped into the category of trash, the PR campaign has failed.

 

The only way geocaching is going to improve, grow and prosper is for people to keep pushing the boundaries and coming up with new creative ideas to improve to sport. If we stop pushing the boundaries, the sport dies. For better or worse its how things get done.

 

When we sent someone to the moon, we were pushing the boundaries of common thinking. Naysayers said it couldn't be done, should not be done, to dangerous. Yet we did it. Heck look at your quote about energy independence. Cant be done, to dangerous, bad for the environment, kills wildlife, kills mother earth, oil spills probably killed more wildlife in one day, than all wildlife killed by discarded fishing line in history.

 

So I agree that discarded fishing line could be a hazard to wildlife there are worse hazards that mother nature has dealt with in the past and always seems to come through.

[+Renegade Knight]

I have mixed feelings on the topic. We used this technique for a stage of a nasty multi a few years back, including the hanging from a branch out over the water requiring the finder to balance on a log to avoid getting wet. But this stage proved to be a maintenance PITA and was retired for a more traditional placement.

 

I do agree that it isn't a good idea to use containers that present themselves as trash, so I also archived my hide that was a slim mint tin under a flattened soda can a few years back.

 

So while I do see the fun factor in creating a cache like this, the negative outweighs the positive IMO, especially when we have some land management agencies who are taking a harder look at the impact that cachers have on their properties. I give the concept one thumb up for humor and creativity, but two down for the trache perception and the potential for problems with entanglement.

 

This is the main issue I see with geocaching today. Cachers keep pushing the boundaries of what is publically acceptable. When caches get lumped into the category of trash, the PR campaign has failed.

 

The only way geocaching is going to improve, grow and prosper is for people to keep pushing the boundaries and coming up with new creative ideas to improve to sport. If we stop pushing the boundaries, the sport dies. For better or worse its how things get done.

 

When we sent someone to the moon, we were pushing the boundaries of common thinking. Naysayers said it couldn't be done, should not be done, to dangerous. Yet we did it. Heck look at your quote about energy independence. Cant be done, to dangerous, bad for the environment, kills wildlife, kills mother earth, oil spills probably killed more wildlife in one day, than all wildlife killed by discarded fishing line in history.

 

So I agree that discarded fishing line could be a hazard to wildlife there are worse hazards that mother nature has dealt with in the past and always seems to come through.

 

There are a couple of ways to push boundaries. One is artificial boundaries that exist for a purpose but your cache meets the test of all things good though it hits the artificial boundary. In other words no higher purpose is served by the rule if applied to your cache.

 

The other version is pushing the boundaries because it's a boundary and not becuase of the creative brilliance of your cache.

 

Simple explanation. We sent a man to the moon. We did not send a man to the sun. Both would push limits. One served a higher purpose. The other would have served no particularly good purpose.

 

Looking at the snag cache. Creative? Check. Brilliant?, Maybe. Well received? Nope. Worthy of the Smithsonian as the example of a new way of caching and for pioneering new ground in caching? Nope. Still a container using camo.

 

Justifying your idea by showing there are worse things isn't the way to go. That's akin to justifying stealing caches because folks steal cars. "yeah I know I'm wrong but since others are more wrong I'm actually ok" isn't an argument.

[+Renegade Knight]

Put that same cache idea in a life size indoor display of a bad fishing day where it would be fitting, looked like it belonged and it moves from the bad kind of pushing boundaries to the good kind. It would also move from "CITO Camo" to "Brilliant". A small Gx logo on the tangled botter would clue in cachers and looks like a long gone logo for a bobber company. Cachers could find the cache without touching anything in the display.

 

You could use this idea for other displays. There is likely a museum somewhere that would welcome the idea and be willing to participate (since they would get the bobber or item for you) and have fun meeting cachers.

 

I wish I could get a company to pay me for ideas.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Renegade Knight

[+tands]

In these parts there are many riverside caches that use spanish moss to hide the goods. They are spectacularly hard to find.

 

I catch fish for the bird rescue center here in town when they have waterbirds. Almost all the waterbirds they get are fishing line victims. They've all died.

 

When I see a tangle of fishing line I stop whatever I'm doing, be it guiding a river trip, or fishing, and gather up and dispose of that fishing line. It's only my opinion, but to me there is no uglier expression of mankind's disregard for nature than abandoned fishing line.

 

- T of TandS

Edited July 2, 2008 by tands

[+jbhodj & Drake]

Good points but like I said previously, we just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

 

I think its a cleaver idea, I feel it can be done with minimal if any impact to wildlife or environment. I am going to add it to my cache list of creations that will eventually come into play hopefully in the near future.

 

If something is noticed through regular maintenance checks of the cache, it should be dealt with and fixed. Thats saying alot more than some of the caches I have come across locally. Some hides dont see any maintenance except for those that find them. Pretty sorry IMHO.

[+jbhodj & Drake]

I respect your point and ideas, but I dont like mueseums plus your talking about an entire fishing display indoors, boat and all. No thanks! It would be great, but Im dont want to create and entire indoor art display.

 

Like I said previously, we just have to agree to disagree on this issue.

 

I think its a cleaver idea, I feel it can be done with minimal if any impact to wildlife or environment. I am going to add it to my cache list of creations that will eventually come into play hopefully in the near future.

 

If something is noticed through regular maintenance checks of the cache, it should be dealt with and fixed. Thats saying alot more than some of the caches I have come across locally. Some hides dont see any maintenance by the owners period and maintenance is left to those that find them.

Edited July 2, 2008 by jbhodj & Drake

[+Kit Fox]

 

The only way geocaching is going to improve, grow and prosper is for people to keep pushing the boundaries and coming up with new creative ideas to improve to sport. If we stop pushing the boundaries, the sport dies. For better or worse its how things get done.

 

Arguing that geocaching will die if boundaries aren't pushed is untrue and can easily be proven false. Geocaching has not only survived for over eight years, it has expanded exponentially. Most geocachers are happy to find "boxes under bushes," or for some film canisters underneath lampposts.

 

When we sent someone to the moon, we were pushing the boundaries of common thinking. Naysayers said it couldn't be done, should not be done, to dangerous. Yet we did it. Heck look at your quote about energy independence. Cant be done, to dangerous, bad for the environment, kills wildlife, kills mother earth, oil spills probably killed more wildlife in one day, than all wildlife killed by discarded fishing line in history.

 

So I agree that discarded fishing line could be a hazard to wildlife there are worse hazards that mother nature has dealt with in the past and always seems to come through.

 

So placing trash caches that pose a hazard to wildlife is ok because of oil spills?

[+jbhodj & Drake]

 

The only way geocaching is going to improve, grow and prosper is for people to keep pushing the boundaries and coming up with new creative ideas to improve to sport. If we stop pushing the boundaries, the sport dies. For better or worse its how things get done.

 

Arguing that geocaching will die if boundaries aren't pushed is untrue and can easily be proven false. Geocaching has not only survived for over eight years, it has expanded exponentially. Most geocachers are happy to find "boxes under bushes," or for some film canisters underneath lampposts.

 

When we sent someone to the moon, we were pushing the boundaries of common thinking. Naysayers said it couldn't be done, should not be done, to dangerous. Yet we did it. Heck look at your quote about energy independence. Cant be done, to dangerous, bad for the environment, kills wildlife, kills mother earth, oil spills probably killed more wildlife in one day, than all wildlife killed by discarded fishing line in history.

 

So I agree that discarded fishing line could be a hazard to wildlife there are worse hazards that mother nature has dealt with in the past and always seems to come through.

 

So placing trash caches that pose a hazard to wildlife is ok because of oil spills?

 

Yes and Yes

[+TotemLake]

I agree. A bad idea environmentally and aesthetically. We don't need to add risks to wildlife getting ensnared in tangled up lines because they were attracted to something colorful and shiny hanging from a tree.

 

You're kidding, right?

Watch crows and jays sometime. I'm constantly fishing colorful and shiny things out of my gutters left behind by them. So no... I'm not kidding.

[+jbhodj & Drake]

I agree. A bad idea environmentally and aesthetically. We don't need to add risks to wildlife getting ensnared in tangled up lines because they were attracted to something colorful and shiny hanging from a tree.

 

You're kidding, right?

Watch crows and jays sometime. I'm constantly fishing colorful and shiny things out of my gutters left behind by them. So no... I'm not kidding.

 

Crows are good eatin! Jays? You can have and keep them, I have no time for them. They wreck havoc on other species in my back yard.

[+TotemLake]

I agree. A bad idea environmentally and aesthetically. We don't need to add risks to wildlife getting ensnared in tangled up lines because they were attracted to something colorful and shiny hanging from a tree.

 

You're kidding, right?

Watch crows and jays sometime. I'm constantly fishing colorful and shiny things out of my gutters left behind by them. So no... I'm not kidding.

 

Crows are good eatin! Jays? You can have and keep them, I have no time for them. They wreck havoc on other species in my back yard.

Do I like having crows around? No. They're noisy and hassle my dog.

 

As a predatory bird, crows and jays are federally protected. They are the reason other species don't run amock with their breeding. Crows and Jays raid nests and help keep the other populations down.

[Skippermark]

The only way geocaching is going to improve, grow and prosper is for people to keep pushing the boundaries and coming up with new creative ideas to improve to sport. If we stop pushing the boundaries, the sport dies. For better or worse its how things get done.

Improve? Who said it needed improvement?

 

Using this philosophy could cause caching to get a bad name and banned in places. People will push keep pushing the boundries but then suddenly a land manager will say, "Nope, don't like the direction caching is going. Please remove all your caches and don' hide anymore here."

[+jbhodj & Drake]

The only way geocaching is going to improve, grow and prosper is for people to keep pushing the boundaries and coming up with new creative ideas to improve to sport. If we stop pushing the boundaries, the sport dies. For better or worse its how things get done.

Improve? Who said it needed improvement?

 

Using this philosophy could cause caching to get a bad name and banned in places. People will push keep pushing the boundries but then suddenly a land manager will say, "Nope, don't like the direction caching is going. Please remove all your caches and don' hide anymore here."

 

You dont actually believe that something is perfect and needs no improvement do you? There is always room for improvement, always, regardless. Improvement comes through hard work, keeping an open mind, thinking outside the box and willing to sometimes take a risk. That was my point. Those that are most successful at improving do this and more. I know of only one case of perfection, but thats another subject.

[+bflentje]

I agree. A bad idea environmentally and aesthetically. We don't need to add risks to wildlife getting ensnared in tangled up lines because they were attracted to something colorful and shiny hanging from a tree.

 

You're kidding, right?

Watch crows and jays sometime. I'm constantly fishing colorful and shiny things out of my gutters left behind by them. So no... I'm not kidding.

 

I should have been more specific...

 

I want real and documented data that shows the annual death rate to animals that have been ensnarled and tangled up in lines. It's like the articles I keep reading in the newspapers how guy wires to cell phone towers kill millions of birds annually in Minnesota alone. I just don't see the bird carcasses piling up anywhere. Use the trash argument all you want. But the taking of life by these balls of string is nonsense.

 

Crows and jays??? You can have em.

[+tozainamboku]

The only way geocaching is going to improve, grow and prosper is for people to keep pushing the boundaries and coming up with new creative ideas to improve to sport. If we stop pushing the boundaries, the sport dies. For better or worse its how things get done.

 

Geocaching does benefit from "improvement" - thought not everyone agrees on what is improvement. Improvement may come from experimentation with new ideas as well. But what really comes from experimentation is knowledge and experience. Over the 7 or 8 years geocaching has been around, geocachers have learned what containers work and which get muggled easily. We have learned what lasts when exposed to the environment and what will need constant maintenance. We even learned what kinds of caches get mistaken for bombs and what kinds of hides get land managers and self-proclaimed defenders of the environment upset. (And that sometimes you don't want to get these people upset because this cause problems for all geocachers) It's fine to come up with clever ideas for new cache and great when these ideas are discussed in the forums. Listen to those who have gained experience - either personally or via reading about what has failed here in the forums. It sounds like this idea is one that many people with experience feel can cause problems. I'd probably drop this idea and look for another one that might work better.

Edited July 2, 2008 by tozainamboku

[+Kit Fox]

You dont actually believe that something is perfect and needs no improvement do you? There is always room for improvement, always, regardless. Improvement comes through hard work, keeping an open mind, thinking outside the box and willing to sometimes take a risk. That was my point. Those that are most successful at improving do this and more. I know of only one case of perfection, but thats another subject.

 

Can you explain how a tangled mess of fishing line and a "lure geocache" improves geocaching?

 

Improvements to geocaching include CITO events, and working with land managers to create sound geocaching policies. Areas that have land mangers usually have set rules on geocache placements. I know of no Land Managers that approve of leaving a tangled mess of fishing line as part of a geocache. I think you need to remove the "rose colored glasses" and stop trying to improve geocaching.

[GOF and Bacall]

 

 

'nough said.

[Skippermark]

You dont actually believe that something is perfect and needs no improvement do you? There is always room for improvement, always, regardless. Improvement comes through hard work, keeping an open mind, thinking outside the box and willing to sometimes take a risk. That was my point. Those that are most successful at improving do this and more. I know of only one case of perfection, but thats another subject.

Yes, I believe that caching is fine the way it is. Why change something just for the sake of change?

 

Overall, other than more micros coming out (micro-spew as some call it), caching has remained pretty consistent since it started 8 years ago, yet it's grown like crazy. Someone must be doing something right.

 

Where I've cached, the caches have generally been great, and I see no need to "push the boundaries." I can't say what caches are like in IA, but maybe you just haven't been fortunate to find good caches and are looking to improve the quality of hides in your area.

 

I'm all for new caches ideas but not something that's going to jeopardize the game. Last year a cache placement caused a lot of problems, with the police being called in and a warning being issued that anyone who placed anymore caches in the town could be prosecuted. It caused such a stir that the entire state considered a state-wide ban on caching.

 

That cache was risky. Did it benefit caching?

[+TotemLake]

I agree. A bad idea environmentally and aesthetically. We don't need to add risks to wildlife getting ensnared in tangled up lines because they were attracted to something colorful and shiny hanging from a tree.

 

You're kidding, right?

Watch crows and jays sometime. I'm constantly fishing colorful and shiny things out of my gutters left behind by them. So no... I'm not kidding.

 

I should have been more specific...

 

I want real and documented data that shows the annual death rate to animals that have been ensnarled and tangled up in lines. It's like the articles I keep reading in the newspapers how guy wires to cell phone towers kill millions of birds annually in Minnesota alone. I just don't see the bird carcasses piling up anywhere. Use the trash argument all you want. But the taking of life by these balls of string is nonsense.

 

Crows and jays??? You can have em.

 

Just in case you missed it. link. Call it what you will... it ain't food and it ain't safe for the fowl. Just because YOU didn't see a bear do it in the woods doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

 

I imagine you find googling pretty tough so here you go:

http://www.baysoundings.com/sum05/rescue.html

http://www.notornis.org.nz/free_issues/Not...is_44_2_109.pdf

Edited July 2, 2008 by TotemLake

[+Capaldo]

In Florida, there is a widespread Monofilament Recovery & Recycling Program. You can read on their web site about the problems with monofilament in the environment. Or, you can just view their photo gallery of entangled animals - Entanglement.

 

With this awareness, I agree with others posters that the cleverness of this idea does not outweigh the potential problems.

[+webscouter.]

Guys you are wasting your breath. jbhodj & Drake has decided that in spite of plenty of empirical evidence about the negative impact of this idea that he/she is going to single handedly pull Geocaching out of its' spin towards destruction.

 

Nothing you say or do is going to change his/her mind. You can certainly tell that he/she isn't an outdoorsman/woman and he/she certainly hasn't embraced the ideals of Leave no Trace/ Leave an area better than you found it or any other good earth principles. Probably throws their McDonalds cups and wrappers out the car window because "It's just paper"

 

Some people just can't see that an idea is bad no matter how many people tell them that it is. Our only hope is that a park or forest ranger will see them leaving the cache in place and ticket them for the mess they leave behind.

[+TotemLake]

Guys you are wasting your breath. jbhodj & Drake has decided that in spite of plenty of empirical evidence about the negative impact of this idea that he/she is going to single handedly pull Geocaching out of its' spin towards destruction.

 

Nothing you say or do is going to change his/her mind. You can certainly tell that he/she isn't an outdoorsman/woman and he/she certainly hasn't embraced the ideals of Leave no Trace/ Leave an area better than you found it or any other good earth principles. Probably throws their McDonalds cups and wrappers out the car window because "It's just paper"

 

Some people just can't see that an idea is bad no matter how many people tell them that it is. Our only hope is that a park or forest ranger will see them leaving the cache in place and ticket them for the mess they leave behind.

Don't confuse 'em with facts. Their minds are made up.

[+TotemLake]

The only way geocaching is going to improve, grow and prosper is for people to keep pushing the boundaries and coming up with new creative ideas to improve to sport. If we stop pushing the boundaries, the sport dies. For better or worse its how things get done.

 

Geocaching does benefit from "improvement" - thought not everyone agrees on what is improvement. Improvement may come from experimentation with new ideas as well. But what really comes from experimentation is knowledge and experience. Over the 7 or 8 years geocaching has been around, geocachers have learned what containers work and which get muggled easily. We have learned what lasts when exposed to the environment and what will need constant maintenance. We even learned what kinds of caches get mistaken for bombs and what kinds of hides get land managers and self-proclaimed defenders of the environment upset. (And that sometimes you don't want to get these people upset because this cause problems for all geocachers) It's fine to come up with clever ideas for new cache and great when these ideas are discussed in the forums. Listen to those who have gained experience - either personally or via reading about what has failed here in the forums. It sounds like this idea is one that many people with experience feel can cause problems. I'd probably drop this idea and look for another one that might work better.

Who are you and what did you do with tozainamboku?

 

Great response.

[+Renegade Knight]

I respect your point and ideas, but I dont like mueseums plus your talking about an entire fishing display indoors, boat and all. No thanks! It would be great, but Im dont want to create and entire indoor art display....

 

Actually (I love that word) it's more about keeping an open mind for opportunities as they come along and to recognize them when they do. You recognized a creative angle on a cache. You need to recogize the bigger picture. Where it would fit in and work with caching as a whole.

 

Some ideas I've had and been able to do nothing with.

 

Personal Petroglyph. Your log is your own carving in the rocks. I'm lacking someone who owns a rock face that would allow this. It's not happening on public land.

 

Mural: The clues are painted into one of those murals that are on buildings. I still need to be in the right time and place but if I ever am I could probably sell the artist on it. Using an existing mural? Not happening unless I find a clue allready hidden in it.

[+tozainamboku]

Who are you and what did you do with tozainamboku?

 

Great response.

I can't believe that I agreed with Kit Fox.

[+wimseyguy]

I thought the same thing as I posted... and RK.

 

I very rarely point out the number of finds or posts, or length of membership as a criteria for 'getting it' but someone who has been around for all of 6 weeks should really listen to the voices in this thread who have been doing this for a lot longer.

Edited July 2, 2008 by wimseyguy

[+jbhodj & Drake]

Guys you are wasting your breath. jbhodj & Drake has decided that in spite of plenty of empirical evidence about the negative impact of this idea that he/she is going to single handedly pull Geocaching out of its' spin towards destruction.

 

Nothing you say or do is going to change his/her mind. You can certainly tell that he/she isn't an outdoorsman/woman and he/she certainly hasn't embraced the ideals of Leave no Trace/ Leave an area better than you found it or any other good earth principles. Probably throws their McDonalds cups and wrappers out the car window because "It's just paper"

 

Some people just can't see that an idea is bad no matter how many people tell them that it is. Our only hope is that a park or forest ranger will see them leaving the cache in place and ticket them for the mess they leave behind.

 

You have no idea who I am and to make presumptive Ad hominem accusations and attacks regarding how I treat the environment are totally wrong and unfounded. I am a steward of the environment and have been for years thank you very much Go troll someplace else please!

 

Now, back on topic. Great advice and some good constructive criticism has been generated regarding this issue. Obviously there are some strong opinions on whats good, not good for the environment. No one wants to destroy wildlife and environment, me included.

 

Balled up fishing line, outside, aimlessly left on purpose? Maybe not the best avenue for a cache (stated previously by me) A creative cache using a fishing lure or bobber, barbs cut off if needed, cotton sewing thread not mono filament maybe, placed someplace with likely hood of not coming into contact with wildlife like birds. Its possible.

 

That about does it for me, hard to imagine that a simple fishing lure worth 99 cents could have created such a stir and brought the discussion to a personal level like it has. But so be it.

 

Im going fishing, have a nice day!

[+TotemLake]

Guys you are wasting your breath. jbhodj & Drake has decided that in spite of plenty of empirical evidence about the negative impact of this idea that he/she is going to single handedly pull Geocaching out of its' spin towards destruction.

 

Nothing you say or do is going to change his/her mind. You can certainly tell that he/she isn't an outdoorsman/woman and he/she certainly hasn't embraced the ideals of Leave no Trace/ Leave an area better than you found it or any other good earth principles. Probably throws their McDonalds cups and wrappers out the car window because "It's just paper"

 

Some people just can't see that an idea is bad no matter how many people tell them that it is. Our only hope is that a park or forest ranger will see them leaving the cache in place and ticket them for the mess they leave behind.

 

You have no idea who I am and to make presumptive Ad hominem accusations and attacks regarding how I treat the environment are totally wrong and unfounded. I am a steward of the environment and have been for years thank you very much Go troll someplace else please!

 

Now, back on topic. Great advice and some good constructive criticism has been generated regarding this issue. Obviously there are some strong opinions on whats good, not good for the environment. No one wants to destroy wildlife and environment, me included.

 

Balled up fishing line, outside, aimlessly left on purpose? Maybe not the best avenue for a cache (stated previously by me) A creative cache using a fishing lure or bobber, barbs cut off if needed, cotton sewing thread not mono filament maybe, placed someplace with likely hood of not coming into contact with wildlife like birds. Its possible.

 

That about does it for me, hard to imagine that a simple fishing lure worth 99 cents could have created such a stir and brought the discussion to a personal level like it has. But so be it.

 

Im going fishing, have a nice day!

Then at the end of the day, it's all good.

[+Droo]

I thought the same thing as I posted... and RK.

 

I very rarely point out the number of finds or posts, or length of membership as a criteria for 'getting it' but someone who has been around for all of 6 weeks should really listen to the voices in this thread who have been doing this for a lot longer.

 

It's not really a matter of seniority but a matter of exposure. Sure with 99 finds in 3 months you can develop a strong opinion based on what you've seen. And if the last couple of years are any indication I can safely say that the quality of geocaches has generally deteriorated. As a noob I'd see the product of this drop in quality as an issue. But after placing a couple of dozen hides or finding several hundred one has a better exposure to the reality and the truth at hand.

Edited July 2, 2008 by Droo

[+briansnat]

I don't see a problem with it as long as the hook tips are snipped off and there are only a few inches of line attached.

 

Well I do see a problem of a sort. As a fisherman myself I've accumulated some very nice lures and tackle I've found hanging in trees. Heck a Rapala goes for $7 these days, so if I see one in a tree I'm making every effort to snag it. I'm not alone, so I can't see a cache like this lasting very long.

[Clan Riffster]

I think, as long as you're willing to constantly replace it, as it gets stolen by fishermuggles, it's a neat container idea. My biggest gripe with caching today is the utter void of creativity displayed by some cache hiders. This hide shows some measure of uniqueness, so it gets at least a few good points. Supplementing the hide with a wad of fishing line is obviously a horrid idea, but it looks like you've acknowledged that, so it's no longer an issue for me. As stated in my other post in the CCC thread, I think if you affix it with a piece of thin cable, you'll reduce the chances that it'll get stolen, either by people or critters.

[+Runaround]

If I wanted to say what was really on my mind, I'd probably be given a posting vacation by the admins.

 

I'm a board member of my local Audubon society, participate in Ohio's breeding bird survey, and have volunteered with a wildlife rehabilitator. I have seen the results of birds having a bad experience with monofilament first hand. This cache is such a bad idea that I'm inclined to think it was an attempt to troll. And if it isn't trolling, the cavalier attitude of the proponents is outright disturbing. I'm not a animals before people PETA type but this cache idea has to rank up there with one of the dumbest ideas ever put forth on this site.

 

If you want geocaching to continue to thrive, I'd try to avoid irritating the animal-rights organizations. They can make such a huge noise that land managers would probably ban caching to get them to go away.

[+Team DragonMoon]

Why not just place a reasonably stocked tackle box as a cache? Most decent ones are very good in the elements, but you would have to worry about it getting ripped off. There's one that I've gotten ideas from near where I live. It would be a good remote hide, that way no need to fear the muggle...

[+Team DragonMoon]

Why not just place a reasonably stocked tackle box as a cache? Most decent ones are very good in the elements, but you would have to worry about it getting ripped off. There's one that I've gotten ideas from near where I live. It would be a good remote hide, that way no need to fear the muggle...

[+Team DragonMoon]

Why not just place a reasonably stocked tackle box as a cache? Most decent ones are very good in the elements, but you would have to worry about it getting ripped off. There's one that I've gotten ideas from near where I live. It would be a good remote hide, that way no need to fear the muggle...

[+Team DragonMoon]

Sorry bout the triple, My internet has been really flakey lately. Sorry again!