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Protocol for Bomb Squads


007BigD
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After the recent mishap with a "really Local cache" :blink: ... :lol:

 

I am thinking to myself "it coulda been so easy"... sure there are rules in place to avoid situations like this, but do they stop? No

 

I mean it'd be so easy as to somethin like a memo to every bomb squad in the country to make it protocol to give coords as to the whereabouts of the suspicious package, take the 1.5 minutes to type it into the Coordinate search of the GC website and find out if its a cache or a bomb!...Really though- Think about it!

 

It would save so much time, so much money, the heartache of the unfortunate one who has his cache destroyed, anyone who may be afflicted by it such as the Hwy 101 drivers held up in the recent ongoing and the people taking their time reading about such nonsense that has caused such a stir...Over and Over and Over again!

 

Sure it gives the paper somethin to write about, but how much trouble does one geocache have to be!

 

It really is an easy task that should be completed before any action is to be taken!...I have read these things goin on these forums since I started geocaching and isnt it time there was someting done? Doesnt it sound to easy to be true though??? :ph34r:

 

Shouldnt it be protocol??? B)

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After the recent mishap with a "really Local cache" :blink: ... :lol:

 

I am thinking to myself "it coulda been so easy"... sure there are rules in place to avoid situations like this, but do they stop? No

 

I mean it'd be so easy as to somethin like a memo to every bomb squad in the country to make it protocol to give coords as to the whereabouts of the suspicious package, take the 1.5 minutes to type it into the Coordinate search of the GC website and find out if its a cache or a bomb!...Really though- Think about it!

 

It would save so much time, so much money, the heartache of the unfortunate one who has his cache destroyed, anyone who may be afflicted by it such as the Hwy 101 drivers held up in the recent ongoing and the people taking their time reading about such nonsense that has caused such a stir...Over and Over and Over again!

 

Sure it gives the paper somethin to write about, but how much trouble does one geocache have to be!

 

It really is an easy task that should be completed before any action is to be taken!...I have read these things goin on these forums since I started geocaching and isnt it time there was someting done? Doesnt it sound to easy to be true though??? :ph34r:

 

Shouldnt it be protocol??? B)

 

Are you really serious? Like law enforcement and bomb sqauds don't have anything better to do with their time than keep track of or search to see if what looks like it might be a bomb is really just a cache.

 

Even as a geocacher, I'd rather my tax-dollars didn't go to such a ridiculous idea.

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I think that if I decided I wanted to place a cache in an area that could be potentially sensitive to this kind of a situation I would contact the local enforcement folks and let them know it was there. If I wasn't comfortable doing that I don't think I would place the cache.

 

This is an extract from the "Hiding your first cache" section on the gc.com website:

 

Whatever the container, make sure to mark your cache so that someone who doesn't play can figure out what it is. Most folks mark the container with Geocaching.com, the name of the cache, and any contact information they feel is necessary. More info is better than less.

 

Based on the pictures from your cache it doesn't appear that you did this. I have empathy for your current situation but not a lot of sympathy.

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Are you really serious? Like law enforcement and bomb sqauds don't have anything better to do with their time than keep track of or search to see if what looks like it might be a bomb is really just a cache.

 

Even as a geocacher, I'd rather my tax-dollars didn't go to such a ridiculous idea.

Are YOU really serious??? Really now...come on!

 

What costs more money here? :

 

A suspicious device is found right? Someone comes to check on it, because they have to...Here are the scenarios that could take place... and then that do take place. Read on

 

Officer arrives or Bomb Squad...Radios to base "Ive located the odd looking container, that may resemble a bomb"... "I am at N123* 13.637 W39* 16.785... "Would you check on this with the GC website before any further action?"

 

Dispatch says..."Looks like there is a geocache within 30 feet of your devices location, heres the details" check the cache and on with the day.

 

OR

 

Officer arrives..."That does look suspicious! Better call the bomb squad!"

 

Bomb squad arrives 2 hours later from Eureka, shuts down busy Hwy 101 while setting up base at a nearby rest stop...It occupies a crew of busy Cal-Trans workers, the CHP, The Bomb Squad and busy Hwy 101 travelers for 5 1/2 hours...Backing up traffic, causing a stir, Blowing up the device, only to dicover its a freakin Geocache! Then the follow up with 4 officers involved tracking down where the box came from and contacting its owner, then the report! All this resulting in Thousands and Thousands of dollars! Not to mention whording the front page of the paper 3 days in a row from actual events that should have been on the front page!

 

Now you tell me what was money well spent with that scenario??? Its a Freakin Bomb Squad...All suspicious containers could be checked within minutes and varified whether or not the container is at least a geocache! Its not like our Bomb Squads go on calls every day!...It should be Protocol!...Its happened too many times- Way more than is even listed on this forum!

 

Really Now, I am sure there are agencies that send out memo's and other info to these outfits on a weekly if not daily basis!

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I think that if I decided I wanted to place a cache in an area that could be potentially sensitive to this kind of a situation I would contact the local enforcement folks and let them know it was there. If I wasn't comfortable doing that I don't think I would place the cache.

 

This is an extract from the "Hiding your first cache" section on the gc.com website:

 

Whatever the container, make sure to mark your cache so that someone who doesn't play can figure out what it is. Most folks mark the container with Geocaching.com, the name of the cache, and any contact information they feel is necessary. More info is better than less.

 

Based on the pictures from your cache it doesn't appear that you did this. I have empathy for your current situation but not a lot of sympathy.

 

Forget about me...Its not about me

 

Its gonna happen again and again, no matter how many rules are in place! Sure things should have been done differently...But I KNOW many caches out there have the potential of something like this happening again, whether it will or not!

 

Its gonna happen again!...Do ya wanna bet by this time next month- there will be another topic of this nature? 2 geocoins...waddaya say? (not really because betting isnt allowed on the forums, but you can contact me) :blink:

 

DUDE- It would save so much time, money and frustration! Its so easy!

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After the recent mishap with a "really Local cache" :blink: ... :lol:

 

I am thinking to myself "it coulda been so easy"... sure there are rules in place to avoid situations like this, but do they stop? No

 

I mean it'd be so easy as to somethin like a memo to every bomb squad in the country to make it protocol to give coords as to the whereabouts of the suspicious package, take the 1.5 minutes to type it into the Coordinate search of the GC website and find out if its a cache or a bomb!...Really though- Think about it!

 

It would save so much time, so much money, the heartache of the unfortunate one who has his cache destroyed, anyone who may be afflicted by it such as the Hwy 101 drivers held up in the recent ongoing and the people taking their time reading about such nonsense that has caused such a stir...Over and Over and Over again!

 

Sure it gives the paper somethin to write about, but how much trouble does one geocache have to be!

 

It really is an easy task that should be completed before any action is to be taken!...I have read these things goin on these forums since I started geocaching and isnt it time there was someting done? Doesnt it sound to easy to be true though??? :ph34r:

 

Shouldnt it be protocol??? B)

Yeah. I get what you are saying! Namely, it is not at all your fault nor your responsibility that you placed in incredibly unwise cache that looks like an improvised explosive device (IED) under an active highway bridge, and a cache placement that also happens to be against the rules, but rather, it is the responsibility of every bomb squad and law enforcement agency in the USA to own Premium member accounts at geocaching.com and at ever other geocache listing site and letterboxing site in the world, and to take highly accurate measurements of waypoint coordinates of every suspicious potential IED device discovered, and then to use their accounts at all these listing sites to check if possibly the potential IED might really be an unmarked geocache container that just happens to look like an IED. I get it! Gosh and golly gee! You are truly amazing! Wow!

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After the recent mishap with a "really Local cache" :blink: ... :lol:

 

I am thinking to myself "it coulda been so easy"... sure there are rules in place to avoid situations like this, but do they stop? No

 

I mean it'd be so easy as to somethin like a memo to every bomb squad in the country to make it protocol to give coords as to the whereabouts of the suspicious package, take the 1.5 minutes to type it into the Coordinate search of the GC website and find out if its a cache or a bomb!...Really though- Think about it!

 

It would save so much time, so much money, the heartache of the unfortunate one who has his cache destroyed, anyone who may be afflicted by it such as the Hwy 101 drivers held up in the recent ongoing and the people taking their time reading about such nonsense that has caused such a stir...Over and Over and Over again!

 

Sure it gives the paper somethin to write about, but how much trouble does one geocache have to be!

 

It really is an easy task that should be completed before any action is to be taken!...I have read these things goin on these forums since I started geocaching and isnt it time there was someting done? Doesnt it sound to easy to be true though??? :ph34r:

 

Shouldnt it be protocol??? B)

Near as I can tell, something is done each time. The cache is officially muggled destructively. People should know better and I'll have no sympathy for lost caches when they are so foolishly hidden.

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Lemme propose this scenario to you:

 

Someone constructs a small bomb, disguises it as a geocache, and places it in a similar position.

 

What now?

 

 

It is a very sad day for the geocaching community as FTF is LTF. Unlikely scenario, but that would suck and would be a very bad ordeal!

 

Lemme propose this scenario to you:

The simple solution is not to have large suspicious-looking caches near high-traffic public places.

 

They are out there...they just havent been discovered by bomb squads yet!

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Sorry, it's a grand idea, but it won't work. Bomb squads always assume and prepare for the worst. From their point of view just because there is a cache listed at location X doesn't mean that someone didn't put a bomb at the same location. They have to treat it that way. Can you imagine the liability if they assumed it was a cache and it turned out to be a bomb? Much safer to assume it is a bomb and have it turn out to be a cache. An added benefit is that they get some valuable experience.

 

On the positive side it seems like fewer of these incidences seem to have authorities threatening prosecution. I hope that is a trend and not just my wishful thinking.

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Near as I can tell, something is done each time. The cache is officially muggled destructively. People should know better and I'll have no sympathy for lost caches when they are so foolishly hidden.

Its not about that...it shouldnt get to that point...Not for the sake of the cache, but for the sake of the time, money and energy spent!

 

Its not about the cache or sympathy for the idiotic hider! They're are idiotic hiders all over...its about when the next one will be payed a visit by the bomb squad and spent thousands of dollars destroying it- It all could be avoided!

 

Im tellin ya, its gonna happen over and over again and there is nothing any reviewer, cacher, or bomb squad tech can do, unless it was necessary protocol to check the coords~ Its so easy...Is any body with me???

 

Totally forget about me...Can ya see past that?

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Sorry, it's a grand idea, but it won't work. Bomb squads always assume and prepare for the worst. From their point of view just because there is a cache listed at location X doesn't mean that someone didn't put a bomb at the same location. They have to treat it that way. Can you imagine the liability if they assumed it was a cache and it turned out to be a bomb? Much safer to assume it is a bomb and have it turn out to be a cache. An added benefit is that they get some valuable experience.

 

On the positive side it seems like fewer of these incidences seem to have authorities threatening prosecution. I hope that is a trend and not just my wishful thinking.

Now that makes sense...Thank you!

 

But wouldnt ya think it would rule out many incidences...there are so many things out there that could be a bomb, just because someone calls in a electrical box thats buzzing- You think they'll blow it up?

 

If there's reasonable doubt thats its not a bomb and it is a geocache, wouldnt they realize and avoid all the mayhem? You'd think...But your probably right!

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Yeah. I get what you are saying! Namely, it is not at all your fault nor your responsibility that you placed in incredibly unwise cache that looks like an improvised explosive device (IED) under an active highway bridge, and a cache placement that also happens to be against the rules, but rather, it is the responsibility of every bomb squad and law enforcement agency in the USA to own Premium member accounts at geocaching.com and at ever other geocache listing site and letterboxing site in the world, and to take highly accurate measurements of waypoint coordinates of every suspicious potential IED device discovered, and then to use their accounts at all these listing sites to check if possibly the potential IED might really be an unmarked geocache container that just happens to look like an IED. I get it! Gosh and golly gee! You are truly amazing! Wow!

 

Boy that helped a bunch...Feel better now. Again THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME! Hmmm I woulda expected a little more from you.

Oh well- Im just tryin to find a resolution and am getting sick of the personal attcks and rude references!

 

If ya cant debate reasonably, just go away!

 

I do hear ya on the multiple sites deal, but which site has more caches and more commonly visited caches aswell as caches that are likely to be reported to bomb squads.

 

Im sure Groundspeak would issue premium memberships to authorities such as these, but I cant speak for them!

Edited by 007BigD
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Sorry, it's a grand idea, but it won't work. Bomb squads always assume and prepare for the worst. From their point of view just because there is a cache listed at location X doesn't mean that someone didn't put a bomb at the same location. They have to treat it that way. Can you imagine the liability if they assumed it was a cache and it turned out to be a bomb? Much safer to assume it is a bomb and have it turn out to be a cache. An added benefit is that they get some valuable experience.

 

On the positive side it seems like fewer of these incidences seem to have authorities threatening prosecution. I hope that is a trend and not just my wishful thinking.

Now that makes sense...Thank you!

 

But wouldnt ya think it would rule out many incidences...there are so many things out there that could be a bomb, just because someone calls in a electrical box thats buzzing- You think they'll blow it up?

 

If there's reasonable doubt thats its not a bomb and it is a geocache, wouldnt they realize and avoid all the mayhem? You'd think...But your probably right!

 

A traffic counter was blown up. If they'll blow up a piece of equipment placed by the highway department they'll blow up anything.

 

In reality they'll take what action they feel is appropriate. Sometimes it'll be xray a package. Sometimes it's the old water cannon. The way most geocaches are hidden it is most unlikely that they will do anything other than detonate. It is hard to get most other equipment close enough.

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Just be sure to label the side of your container with "NOT A BOMB."

Yeah...I thought of that, but id almost think that may make me even more worried! :blink:

 

I listed "Safe and Harmless" "geocache" on a cache I sent to Iraq for the troops to hide, so far it aint blown up yet! :ph34r:

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A traffic counter was blown up. If they'll blow up a piece of equipment placed by the highway department they'll blow up anything.

 

In reality they'll take what action they feel is appropriate. Sometimes it'll be xray a package. Sometimes it's the old water cannon. The way most geocaches are hidden it is most unlikely that they will do anything other than detonate. It is hard to get most other equipment close enough.

 

Whoa!...Guess they just like to blow things up! I know I would! :blink: Youd think they'd have a sniffer or somethin! :ph34r:

 

I wonder how many things they actually do blow up that they know is not a bomb, but blow it up anyways??? Then again, I wonder how many bombs they actually blow up!

 

I just wonder!

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A traffic counter was blown up. If they'll blow up a piece of equipment placed by the highway department they'll blow up anything.

 

In reality they'll take what action they feel is appropriate. Sometimes it'll be xray a package. Sometimes it's the old water cannon. The way most geocaches are hidden it is most unlikely that they will do anything other than detonate. It is hard to get most other equipment close enough.

 

Whoa!...Guess they just like to blow things up! I know I would! :blink: Youd think they'd have a sniffer or somethin! :ph34r:

 

I wonder how many things they actually do blow up that they know is not a bomb, but blow it up anyways??? Then again, I wonder how many bombs they actually blow up!

 

I just wonder!

 

They blow up lots of stuff. Occasionally they'll get a pipe bomb or some old fireworks but usually the objects turn out to be harmless. Most guys will go through their whole career without ever seeing a sophisticated devise. The thing is they always need to treat things as worst case scenarios.

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Yeah. I get what you are saying! Namely, it is not at all your fault nor your responsibility that you placed in incredibly unwise cache that looks like an improvised explosive device (IED) under an active highway bridge, and a cache placement that also happens to be against the rules, but rather, it is the responsibility of every bomb squad and law enforcement agency in the USA to own Premium member accounts at geocaching.com and at ever other geocache listing site and letterboxing site in the world, and to take highly accurate measurements of waypoint coordinates of every suspicious potential IED device discovered, and then to use their accounts at all these listing sites to check if possibly the potential IED might really be an unmarked geocache container that just happens to look like an IED. I get it! Gosh and golly gee! You are truly amazing! Wow!

 

Boy that helped a bunch...Feel better now. Again THIS IS NOT ABOUT ME! Hmmm I woulda expected a little more from you.

Oh well- Im just tryin to find a resolution and am getting sick of the personal attcks and rude references!

 

If ya cant debate reasonably, just go away!

 

I do hear ya on the multiple sites deal, but which site has more caches and more commonly visited caches aswell as caches that are likely to be reported to bomb squads.

 

Im sure Groundspeak would issue premium memberships to authorities such as these, but I cant speak for them!

 

You're right of course. How about you work with your local bomb squad and develop a pilot program since you certainly must have a lot of credibility with them right now. Once your pilot is up and running you can spearhead the rollout in other areas. Instead of complaining about what you see as a problem and lambasting everyone who doesn't buy in to your perspective maybe you should go out and do something about it.

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I figure if I mark my caches as "Bio-hazardous Waste" it'll stop the bomb squad from being called. Then again are the hazmat guys any less disruptive?

At least they'll just place it a little red baggie and toss it to the Hazerdous disposal truck! Way better than the bomb squad! :ph34r: "Hmmm, someone's got a tampon stash here!"...That'd give another meaning to "Trade even or Trade up! :blink:

 

So ya just dont think its a possible ordeal to have such a protocol in place? I have been talking with the guys that dealt with the cache and Im gonna see what they have to say- Afterall, guess they'd know whether or not they'd blow up a cache if it was a known cache...

I have to talk to a guy on Sunday and everyone that has contacted me has been friendly in the whole ordeal- Even got 2 new cachers outa the deal!!! One the Incident Commander and the other is head of the Bomb Squad...Ill see what they say!

Edited by 007BigD
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You're right of course. How about you work with your local bomb squad and develop a pilot program since you certainly must have a lot of credibility with them right now. Once your pilot is up and running you can spearhead the rollout in other areas. Instead of complaining about what you see as a problem and lambasting everyone who doesn't buy in to your perspective maybe you should go out and do something about it.

Boy, some just dont get it! :blink: Look up!...ill let ya know what I come up with, untill then- Think of something constructive woodya! And yes, I am working with them!

 

I was sick of the lame references is all, I still feel my gripe is viable, although Gof1 is the only one to actually provide any real input which makes me think differently! Give me something to "Buy into" and I just may...Till then ya got nothin! :ph34r:

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All right I've got it figured out now. My guess is you are one VERY niave person. However, you seem like a very nice person. I want to give you some advice that I hope you take. I'd would go to the SMARTEST person you know. Someone you respect. Someone you know who makes a lot of good decisions.

 

Explain this whole ordeal to them. Show them the threads you've posted. Arm them with all the information you can provide and then listen to their advice.

 

You do realize you are going to be one VERY lucky person if you walk away from this without legal trouble? Sound crazy? It happens all the time now a days. Government is losing their patience for niave behavior at an expontenial rate.

 

Here in my state they are now charging fisherman out ice fishing when they get stranded on an ice flow and have to be rescued by a helicopter. Helicopter rides aren't cheap.

 

Remember the guys in New York with the little "Blinky" sign that people thought was some bomb scare. They basically tried to hang them. They DID end up in court.

 

You've already admitted that the local papers ARE trying to hang you.

 

The simple fact is you put a device that 99.9999999999% of the world would suspect to be a BOMB in a public place. If you disrupted just one single persons live in a negative manner and they get an itch to sue you...would you be at ALL suprised? We live in a society today that loves to rally behind the fact that they think you should be punished for your innocennce.

 

Listen to what EVERYONE is telling you. The idea is grandiose and has some merit but it just won't work.

 

I hope you get out of this one with as little problems as possible. Good luck to you.

Edited by Morning Dew
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You're right of course. How about you work with your local bomb squad and develop a pilot program since you certainly must have a lot of credibility with them right now. Once your pilot is up and running you can spearhead the rollout in other areas. Instead of complaining about what you see as a problem and lambasting everyone who doesn't buy in to your perspective maybe you should go out and do something about it.

Boy, some just dont get it! :blink: Look up!...ill let ya know what I come up with, untill then- Think of something constructive woodya! And yes, I am working with them!

 

I was sick of the lame references is all, I still feel my gripe is viable, although Gof1 is the only one to actually provide any real input which makes me think differently! Give me something to "Buy into" and I just may...Till then ya got nothin! :ph34r:

 

It seems like my suggestion was a pretty good one since that is what you say you are doing. YOU are the one complaining about this issue. Figure out a solution and try it. If it works share it with everyone else. I would be happy for you to prove me and the other naysayers wrong.

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It seems like my suggestion was a pretty good one since that is what you say you are doing. YOU are the one complaining about this issue. Figure out a solution and try it. If it works share it with everyone else. I would be happy for you to prove me and the other naysayers wrong.

 

Yes, you did have good suggestions, most of my caches are in fact labled appropriatley...all you said was indeed viable help and thank you!...Dude I would have sympathy for anyone in my shoes (in relation to your first quote) No cacher deserves this! Unless it was intentionally done! I have seen both sides and even before it was always a newbie with a pipe and 2 caps! Lame- Yes, deserving of mayhem and possible imprisonment- NO...kay I wonder if I should get my rock shield out again. :blink:

 

Ill let you now if I come up with anything.

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All right I've got it figured out now. My guess is you are one VERY niave person. However, you seem like a very nice person. I want to give you some advice that I hope you take. I'd would go to the SMARTEST person you know. Someone you respect. Someone you know who makes a lot of good decisions.

 

Explain this whole ordeal to them. Show them the threads you've posted. Arm them with all the information you can provide and then listen to their advice.

 

You do realize you are going to be one VERY lucky person if you walk away from this without legal trouble? Sound crazy? It happens all the time now a days. Government is losing their patience for niave behavior at an expontenial rate.

 

Here in my state they are now charging fisherman out ice fishing when they get stranded on an ice flow and have to be rescued by a helicopter. Helicopter rides aren't cheap.

 

Remember the guys in New York with the little "Blinky" sign that people thought was some bomb scare. They basically tried to hang them. They DID end up in court.

 

You've already admitted that the local papers ARE trying to hang you.

 

The simple fact is you put a device that 99.9999999999% of the world would suspect to be a BOMB in a public place. If you disrupted just one single persons live in a negative manner and they get an itch to sue you...would you be at ALL suprised? We live in a society today that loves to rally behind the fact that they think you should be punished for your innocennce.

 

Listen to what EVERYONE is telling you. The idea is grandiose and has some merit but it just won't work.

 

I hope you get out of this one with as little problems as possible. Good luck to you.

 

Naieve?...maybe to a point...but on the low scale, and not many can admit that! I can definatley hold my own when it comes to circumstances that require a bit to realize if its a bad deal, scam or a dangerous situation.

 

As far as prosecution goes...Actually, I have been told there is no action going to be taken against me in every circumstance so far...every contact has understood 100%.

 

The paper was just dead wrong in what they published...They had no right to list my place of work or use one of my pictures. They were on the idiotic side of things much as many of the posters in this topic (I mean in reference to the guy who placed it and the nature of it being an idiotic act)...They really exagerated it too!

 

I will only talk to the officer on Sunday, just to give him my report. As far as I know, he still has the cache with a hole in it and the incident commander told me they actually want to give it back to me...The log is fine!

 

Ill try to let ya'll know what becomes of this and what they say about such a Protocol being in place...as far as the smartest person to talk to- Heck, that'd be me! :ph34r:... :blink: Ill share what I find.

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Although your intentions for the cache and its placement were good, some thought should have been put into its look and the enviroment in which it was placed.

 

No cache of a significant shape or size camouflaged in that way should be placed near any structure that is used by humans or animals. The cache should clearly show its contents to never be mis-understood as to what they are.

 

Had you left this nice looking cache in the woods or near a non-structure you peobably would have never had this issue.

 

I feel it was just a bad judgement call in hind sight. Ya learn from your mistakes as we all learn as well from this incident.

 

I do not think that it is realistic for the bomb squads to enter in co-ordinates before investigating.

Edited by lordzogat
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"Im sure Groundspeak would issue premium memberships to authorities such as these, but I cant speak for them!"

 

You think Groundspeak would consider giving free premium memberships to the THOUSANDS of law enforcement departments worldwide to prevent a gecache that was poorly placed from being blown up? :blink:

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Sorry but your proposed protocol looks wonderful on the surface but is not employable or wise. After almost 30 years of anti-terrorist training and training others to be anti-terrorist as well as 'freedom fighters,' I can tell you, your plan is the opposite of what should be done. As the one hiding the devise I would want it to not scream bomb. I would want it to appear as something that is normal. Secondly I would want the bomb sqaud to approach to take readings. I would want them to question whether it could be just "another one of those cache game doohickeys." In fact if your plan were implemented and I was training 'freedom fighters' in America today, I would teach them to use appropriately marked geocaches along with the typical packages in order to build their devices.

 

By the way, looking at your cache there is no way I would not have thought it was a terrorist's bomb. It looks like a crackpot's bomb. Having been trained to handle such things in the field, my response would have been to back off a 100+ meters and pump a few rounds into it. Of course the bomb squads have robots for that.

Edited by Totem Clan
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being new to geocaching i am wondering if this has ever happened before. a park employee or cdot (colorado) worker hasn't stumbled upon an ammo box thinking it was a possible bomb. i mean since 911 everone is paranoid about ied's, especially law enforcement. i'm paranoid just trying to find a cache next to a business or bus stop or any other highly visible area were after a few minutes of searching around for the cache and wondering if i'm being watched by some idiot calling the cops on me for suspicous activities. i'm having a hard time finding the micro's that are in my hood, there seems to be nothing but them around here, .but that's another thread.

just acouple a years ago some idiot (mild description ) got off the park-n-ride bus and told the driver he left a bomb in a backpack on the bus. what a fiasco. the park-n-ride is adjacent to a federal center which was promptly locked down, as well as the main road leading into the fed. center and the park-n-ride. the exits off the freeway. gridlock everywhere, news choppers everywhere, showing a bus sitting in the park-n-ride bomb disposal units, robot, you name it it was there ---- sound familiar? duh!!!

now living a bout 1.1 miles away as the crow flies in was a major disturbance, windows rattling for hours while helicopters flew overhead while the law enforcement agencies decided what to do. watching it unfold , minute by minute, was alittle unnerving. when the robot finally dragged out the back pack and blew it up, i thought they blew my house up! the whole structure shook and it was some what deafing. all because someone thought they would funny.

they never found the person, or never said if they did. if i would have i'd of ended up in jail.

imho, you did the same thing! completely an irresponsible action, you obviously didn't watch the news conserning the blinking incident in new york with that bridge. your god like attitude, doesn't make you favored much here with your peers. i would go so far as to get you banned from here. you show no remorse for the problems you caused, i mean you sound like your wanting all the attention you can get and will milk it long and hard.

 

you remind me of my favorite saying: you must be an a** half because your too stupid to be an a**hole!

Edited by jmythng
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...

you remind me of my favorite saying: you must be an a** half because your too stupid to be an a**hole!

 

The one that is close to being banned is you. You may want to reread the forum tou. Name calling is a no no.

 

Was the OP's cache a bad idea? Yes. Was he acting with intent to disrupt? No. Makes the incident in your example irrelevant. The OP got a bit of a scare. He wants to prevent others from getting the same scare. His heart is in the right place. Do I think his idea viable? No. At least he is trying to be positive.

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:blink: Poor ole geocachers getting smack for trying to have a little fun.......I thought that the people who review the cache look at where the coordinates are? Can they tell if it is near a bridge or any other spot not for caches??? I also agree that whoever put the cache there should of marked it better than putting a motherboard on the outside?????
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being new to geocaching i am wondering if this has ever happened before. a park employee or cdot (colorado) worker hasn't stumbled upon an ammo box thinking it was a possible bomb. i mean since 911 everone is paranoid about ied's, especially law enforcement. i'm paranoid just trying to find a cache next to a business or bus stop or any other highly visible area were after a few minutes of searching around for the cache and wondering if i'm being watched by some idiot calling the cops on me for suspicous activities. i'm having a hard time finding the micro's that are in my hood, there seems to be nothing but them around here, .but that's another thread.

just acouple a years ago some idiot (mild description ) got off the park-n-ride bus and told the driver he left a bomb in a backpack on the bus. what a fiasco. the park-n-ride is adjacent to a federal center which was promptly locked down, as well as the main road leading into the fed. center and the park-n-ride. the exits off the freeway. gridlock everywhere, news choppers everywhere, showing a bus sitting in the park-n-ride bomb disposal units, robot, you name it it was there ---- sound familiar? duh!!!

now living a bout 1.1 miles away as the crow flies in was a major disturbance, windows rattling for hours while helicopters flew overhead while the law enforcement agencies decided what to do. watching it unfold , minute by minute, was alittle unnerving. when the robot finally dragged out the back pack and blew it up, i thought they blew my house up! the whole structure shook and it was some what deafing. all because someone thought they would funny.

they never found the person, or never said if they did. if i would have i'd of ended up in jail.

imho, you did the same thing! completely an irresponsible action, you obviously didn't watch the news conserning the blinking incident in new york with that bridge. your god like attitude, doesn't make you favored much here with your peers. i would go so far as to get you banned from here. you show no remorse for the problems you caused, i mean you sound like your wanting all the attention you can get and will milk it long and hard.

 

you remind me of my favorite saying: you must be an a** half because your too stupid to be an a**hole!

While I do not agree with the grammar, semantics, syntax, spelling or capitalization practices of the poster (jmythng) quoted above, nor do I agree with the name-calling at the end of his/her post, I strongly identify with the irritation and frustration felt by this poster and with her/his comments in general. In my humble opinion, the OP who started this thread, and who happens to be the cache owner, is just begging to be banned from the sport. I have rarely read more audacious or inane, banal and self-serving words on this forum than the posts from the OP (i.e., the cache owner.) I feel that it is folks like this that bring shame on the sport.

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It would save so much time, so much money, the heartache of the unfortunate one who has his cache destroyed, anyone who may be afflicted by it such as the Hwy 101 drivers held up in the recent ongoing and the people taking their time reading about such nonsense that has caused such a stir...Over and Over and Over again!

 

<snip>

 

Shouldnt it be protocol???

 

No. EMPHATICALLY, no.

 

"Heartache of the unfortunate one who has had his cache destroyed"? Are you serious? These are geocache containers, not family members. If your cache goes missing or gets destroyed, it's annoying, and an inconvenience. If it's heartache, then you've put the wrong degree of importance on geocaching.

 

Keep things in perspective here.

 

We're living in a post-9/11 world now. (We all agree on this, I hope.)

 

There's a suspicious looking device or container seen on a bridge support. It should be checked out. (I think we all agree on this.)

 

Now two different scenarios come up. This is where we disagree.

 

Your scenario: Find the coords of the location, check GC.Com, see if there's a cache within a few feet. If so, stand down, no need to rush, probably just a cache container.

 

Normal scenario: Local agents of the dominant social order treat the device or container as a potential threat, and recover the device, investigating it at a remote location, and either deciding it's not a threat, or detonating it.

 

Your scenario makes a logical fallacy, that if there's a geocache within a few feet, there won't be a bomb there, so no need to respond as if it is.

 

The normal scenario opts to assume all such devices or containers are potential threats, and handle them as such.

 

I'll go with the normal scenario. I'd rather we respond and later find out it was a false alarm, than fail to respond, and later wish we had.

 

The only protocol we need to avoid this is already in place. "Use common sense when placing a cache. Mark containers clearly. Do not place caches in security sensitive locations." The responsibility for this is upon the cache hider.

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i apologize to all, including the cache owner, for name calling and language, it won't happen again, my bad. i know the frustration those motorist felt sitting on the highway for hours.it just brought back memories of how annoyed i was encountering the same thing. again i a truely sorry.

 

yes, i have been warned.

 

question: do police, dispatchers or 911 operators have the ability to have instant access to gps coor. ? would the time spent looking for them be better spent arriving at the scene in case of a true emergency ? will my taxes go up to fund this ability?

Edited by jmythng
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Its not about that...it shouldnt get to that point...Not for the sake of the cache, but for the sake of the time, money and energy spent!

 

Its not about the cache or sympathy for the idiotic hider! They're are idiotic hiders all over...its about when the next one will be payed a visit by the bomb squad and spent thousands of dollars destroying it- It all could be avoided!

 

Im tellin ya, its gonna happen over and over again and there is nothing any reviewer, cacher, or bomb squad tech can do, unless it was necessary protocol to check the coords~ Its so easy...Is any body with me???

 

Totally forget about me...Can ya see past that?

 

For the sake of safety of community AND the resonders to this situation, it HAS to go the route it goes. See past that and look at the consequences if it doesn't. Yes, money is spent, resources are used, but those guys walk away alive. If they once forget they may dealing with an incendiary device and decide it ~might~ be safe, that will be the day someone has to tell their family "Ooops". So no, I'm am definitely NOT with you on this.

Edited by TotemLake
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It's amazing when someone who has no idea what's involved in something involving law enforcement always thinks they know more about it than they really do. People watch too much TV and believe all the hooie on the TV shows.

Before making suggestions for something as involved and complex as bomb disposal I suggest to the OP that he do a bit of legal research and find the legal ramifications of his suggestions. He can then do some studying on EOD, procedures, and UXOs. That should only take about 2 to 3 years of full time study. Once he does then he'll understand just how illogical and impratical his suggestion really is.

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It's amazing when someone who has no idea what's involved in something involving law enforcement always thinks they know more about it than they really do. People watch too much TV and believe all the hooie on the TV shows.

Before making suggestions for something as involved and complex as bomb disposal I suggest to the OP that he do a bit of legal research and find the legal ramifications of his suggestions. He can then do some studying on EOD, procedures, and UXOs. That should only take about 2 to 3 years of full time study. Once he does then he'll understand just how illogical and impratical his suggestion really is.

 

Stop holding back and tell us what you really think about this. :blink:

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I am not sure educating the Bomb Squad personnel is going to do the trick. Once they respond to the scene and find the "suspicous package", they are going to blow it because it is the safest way to "render it safe"; and, then they are beyond reproach if it is the real thing. Blowing up things is what Bomb Squads do.

 

The education needs to be done with the first responders - the Patrolmen. They make the decision, based on their training, what assistance is required in each situation. Their assessment is what triggers the Bomb Squad.

 

Within one week, we had two incidents: One in which an established cache, existing of a marked M&M container, was blown up, with a lot of resulting negative publicity.

 

The second incident involved a geocache container found by a passerby, who summonsed the police. The responding Officer recognized the container as a geocache, and left it in place. No further action; and, of course very little publicity.

 

Once the Bomb Squad is dispatched, it is then is beyond the "Point of No Return". :blink:

Edited by SharpShin'
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:blink:

Its not about that...it shouldnt get to that point...Not for the sake of the cache, but for the sake of the time, money and energy spent!

 

Its not about the cache or sympathy for the idiotic hider! They're are idiotic hiders all over...its about when the next one will be payed a visit by the bomb squad and spent thousands of dollars destroying it- It all could be avoided!

 

Im tellin ya, its gonna happen over and over again and there is nothing any reviewer, cacher, or bomb squad tech can do, unless it was necessary protocol to check the coords~ Its so easy...Is any body with me???

 

Totally forget about me...Can ya see past that?

 

I am having trouble forgetting about the money spent blowing up a device that looked like a bomb and was hidden under a bridge. I wonder how much it did cost to do that? $5000? $10,000? More?

 

Maybe you should go down to the bomb squad and personally talk with them. Explain to them that YOU are the one that created that item and YOU are the one that hid it under the bridge, and YOU are upset that they blew it up without calling YOU first. I am sure they will be happy to talk protocol with YOU as soon as YOU pay for their expenses for the day.

 

Loch Cache

 

PS. I am guessing YOU did not tell them that YOU placed it since YOU are not talking about an extended stay at the county jail.

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:blink:

Its not about that...it shouldnt get to that point...Not for the sake of the cache, but for the sake of the time, money and energy spent!

 

Its not about the cache or sympathy for the idiotic hider! They're are idiotic hiders all over...its about when the next one will be payed a visit by the bomb squad and spent thousands of dollars destroying it- It all could be avoided!

 

Im tellin ya, its gonna happen over and over again and there is nothing any reviewer, cacher, or bomb squad tech can do, unless it was necessary protocol to check the coords~ Its so easy...Is any body with me???

 

Totally forget about me...Can ya see past that?

 

I am having trouble forgetting about the money spent blowing up a device that looked like a bomb and was hidden under a bridge. I wonder how much it did cost to do that? $5000? $10,000? More?

 

Maybe you should go down to the bomb squad and personally talk with them. Explain to them that YOU are the one that created that item and YOU are the one that hid it under the bridge, and YOU are upset that they blew it up without calling YOU first. I am sure they will be happy to talk protocol with YOU as soon as YOU pay for their expenses for the day.

 

Loch Cache

 

PS. I am guessing YOU did not tell them that YOU placed it since YOU are not talking about an extended stay at the county jail.

 

Um, what was the crime he committed? He didn't make a bomb, or even a fake one. While what he did is ill-advised it isn't a crime. It isn't like he meant for someone else to mistake his cache for a bomb. No intent. It isn't even littering, the cache is hidden, not abandoned.

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Boy Im not exactly sure where to go with all this! :huh:

 

For one, half of you have got it all wrong...there is no way in hell that I would have ever wanted this public!...in any way! No way was this started for attention!!!- I didnt even really want to post it, at least so soon, but I thought it seemed feasible...Guess I am Naieve-Sheesh!

 

This was not meant to mock a bomb or in any way resemble a bomb...did you read the cache page??? Not one single person in this forum has any factual logisitics of the hide, the cache or my intentions. You have no idea of where it was placed in relation to the bridge, or the location of the bridge...It was actually in the middle of nowhere on hwy 101 with the closest town being a town of 1400, 15 miles away! being absolutley nowhere near a support!

 

If ANY container was found and reported, THE SAME THING WOULD HAVE HAPPENED!!!...(listen to yourselfs) if its a bomb call, action will be taken!...That is what this topic was started for, not for any other reason.

 

Think what you want, you think I should be banned, well thats plain silly! ...Makes me think aswell as some of you sound that This place is full of egotistical drama junkies that thrive on this crap and so call "speak their minds" just because its easy to sit behind your keyboards and knock whatever actions arise and can get joy from talkin down a guy to build yourself for whatever reason from what I see! Cause you are DEFINATLEY not gettin the big picture here!

What if the topic was started by someone else??? I think it would have gotten alot further!

 

Dang...I just dont get it! Nor do I even care any more, Im doin what I can do get the results I hoped for when I started this topic and for all you to just sit there and bash away- Keep it up, your makin yourself look REAL GOOD! :D

 

Actuall on-topic post to follow...

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Kay...Now, I have sent emails to the Incident commander, the Head of the Eureka Bomb Squad and was not able to speak with the officer of which I am supposed to have given my final closing statement to (who still has the cache)...he was injured from what I hear today...?

 

I am in full contact with ALL authorities, including CHP, Humboldt Sheriff and Eureka Bomb Squad, I am not hiding anything and have taken absolute full responibility from the very beginning, taking it upon myself to contact the approprate authorities.

 

I am waiting responses from the Incident commander and Bomb Squad aswell as awaiting contact to local CHP...I have spoken to probably 4-5 different officers and NONE have been anywhere close to even mentioning prosecution!

 

I will provide updates as soon as I hear from them...I may persue even further, but it really doesnt sound as if any protocol of the sort has a chance of being in effect...But again, I havent heard back from anyone yet.

 

To tell you the truth...I dont even want to participate in this thread anymore, I really have a hard time beleiving where it has gone...really dissapointed! To those who have given their constructive ideas- Thank You...for those who cant help but critisize, please refrain from posting here. I would just like to stay on topic.

Really tired of the ones who know absolutley nothing of the situation or who I am...YOU HAVE ABSOLUTLEY NO IDEA!

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