Micros in the woods

9.3k · January 22, 2008

It is my opinion that the cache itself is never to blame. A lame hider is going to create a lame cache, regardless of what kind of container they use. A creative hider is going to create a kewl cache, regardless of what kind of container they use. Now that I've learned who to avoid, my fun meter peaks far more frequently. On a local level, the lame hiders tend toward film canisters, but I don't know if this is simple coincidence or if there is some as yet unrecognized natural law of physics which causes two lame objects, (container/hider), to come together. As with many others, I don't prefer micros in the woods, but I will hunt them so long as they are not hidden by those on my "Ignore" list. My personal rule of thumb when hunting a micro in a sensitive environment is to search with my eyes first, then to physically check those spots that I think are likely. This helps me avoid scorched earth hunting methods.

1.4k · January 22, 2008

On a local level, the lame hiders tend toward film canisters, but I don't know if this is simple coincidence or if there is some as yet unrecognized natural law of physics which causes two lame objects, (container/hider), to come together.

3.9k · January 22, 2008

I don't think that argument that kids prefer trinkets is compelling, in this situation. If you are geocaching with your children and your kids only like trading caches and you want to keep your kids happy, then you should avoid every micro.

....

Who mentioned trinkets?? My kids just don't like the frustration of searching for a needle in a haystack or of the time wasted driving to cache only to find it is someting we would rather not do.

There can never be a button to filter out caches that [insert cachers name] doesn't like to find.

To assume that since you, or your kids, don't like to find them then they are somehow bad for the game is a bit self centered.

There are good ways to help avoid kinds of caches that you don't like, but they're not 100% effective. They will, however, definitely increase the ratio of caches you like to caches you don't like. If living without a small number of caches that you would have liked is unacceptable to you, then you'll just have to find them first before deciding if you like them or not.

You can also decide if you're going to get upset if you find a cache you didn't like, or if you'll just log it and move on to the next hopeful cache.

January 22, 2008

A nano glued to a pine cone in a tree isn't a "needle in a haystack"? Sounds like one to me. I agree with some of the points previously made:

Kids generally don't like micros. There might be a few that do, but I believe most do not. My 9 year old has even made the statement "micros suck, dad". He's not wild about walking a mile through the woods, or searching for 30 minutes, only to find a rolled up scrap of paper. Kids like swag. I like swag.

Trade bugs. The way things are going with the proliferation of micros, TB's will soon be extinct. Or at least have nowhere to go.

A nice scenic and/or historic place with a micro means that a regular can't be placed there.

And yeah, these are just our preferences.

Oh well, at least it is always a lively discussion when a micro topic comes up!

18.9k · January 22, 2008

.....

You can also decide if you're going to get upset if you find a cache you didn't like, or if you'll just log it and move on to the next hopeful cache.

...or - I can can log it and ask that we set the bar a bit higher - nothing wrong with higher expectations. I don't live in the same vaccuum that seems to exist out there. What other people do has an effect on me and my life. Always has - always will.

I stand by the general rule of thumb that says we should all be trying to place the largest cache a given area can support. I've taught it to others and still see nothing wrong with repeating it often.

Micros are often not appropriate or suitable for a cache out in the woods.

1.1k · January 22, 2008

Micros in the snow

gonna find me one today.

Into the woods I go

caching all the way.

The pine in that tree

a micro it could be

oh what fun it is to find

a cache placed just for me

Chorus

24.7k · January 22, 2008

I don't think that argument that kids prefer trinkets is compelling, in this situation. If you are geocaching with your children and your kids only like trading caches and you want to keep your kids happy, then you should avoid every micro....

The rest of the argument is that kids like finding caches. Also while some folks say they like the DNF as much as a find I'd bet that if all they ever got were DNFs that most all would soon give up.

There is more fun to be had finding a cache than not finding one. For any who say otherwise then I'd have to ask a simple question. Your last DNF, fun as it was, would it have not been a bit more fun if at the last second at the moment of giving up you found it?

I like larger caches becasue my odds of success increase. There are still plenty of DNF's to be had to keep things a challenge.

20.7k · January 22, 2008

I don't think that argument that kids prefer trinkets is compelling, in this situation. If you are geocaching with your children and your kids only like trading caches and you want to keep your kids happy, then you should avoid every micro.
Who mentioned trinkets?? My kids just don't like the frustration of searching for a needle in a haystack or of the time wasted driving to cache only to find it is someting we would rather not do.

Several people have mentioned trinkets. kwikstix, RK, and geowizard have all linked trinkets to childhood enjoyment. Edited January 22, 2008 by sbell111

24.7k · January 22, 2008

Micros in the snow

gonna find me one today.

Into the woods I go

caching all the way.

The pine in that tree

a micro it could be

oh what fun it is to find

a cache placed just for me

Chorus

micro cache, micro cache

DNFing all the way

Oh what fun it is to cry

about micro's all the day.

8k · January 22, 2008

A nice scenic and/or historic place with a micro means that a regular can't be placed there.

Micros are often not appropriate or suitable for a cache out in the woods.

I can only assume that comments like this come from a deep seated personal dislike of micros. A micro in a scenic or historic places still brings cachers to the scenic/historic place. And in some cases a micro is the only cache that is suitable in the scenic/historic place (either due to lack of a big enough hiding space or because, even in the woods, a scenic/historic spot may attract more muggles). Micros are sometimes inappropriate for a cache in the woods, but then sometimes regular sized caches are inappropriate. I can agree that if you place a cache in the woods you should consider what finders might do when looking for it. Needle-in-the-haystack hides might result in some idiot doing a scorched earth search. Consider hiding that cache somewhere less sensitive and if you still want to place a cache in this location make it easier to find. There are places where a micro in the woods is the best choice. There are many places where either a micro or a larger cache would be appropriate - it is a matter of personal choice (I suspect that many would prefer find the bigger cache for various reasons; I am not one of them ). There are some places where the large cache is the best choice because of the idiots who don't know how to look for micros in the woods and who resort to scorched earth tactics before accepting a DNF. Because of this the majority of my caches are regular sized - mostly ammo cans. Otherwise, I would be hiding more micros

20.7k · January 22, 2008

A nano glued to a pine cone in a tree isn't a "needle in a haystack"? Sounds like one to me. I agree with some of the points previously made:

Not if it's not a pine tree.

Kids generally don't like micros. There might be a few that do, but I believe most do not. My 9 year old has even made the statement "micros suck, dad". He's not wild about walking a mile through the woods, or searching for 30 minutes, only to find a rolled up scrap of paper. Kids like swag. I like swag.

Your child doesn't like micros. If you choose to look for a micro, don't be surprised if your child is less than satisfied.

Trade bugs. The way things are going with the proliferation of micros, TB's will soon be extinct. Or at least have nowhere to go.

Ahhh. The 'micros are taking over' argument. This has been proved wrong in the past. Don't make me pull out charts and graphs.

A nice scenic and/or historic place with a micro means that a regular can't be placed there.

The game has been being played for nearly eight years now. IF that was such a good spot, why didn't it already have a big old cache sitting in it? Is there another good spot 175 paces away? Edited January 22, 2008 by sbell111

20.7k · January 22, 2008

I don't think that argument that kids prefer trinkets is compelling, in this situation. If you are geocaching with your children and your kids only like trading caches and you want to keep your kids happy, then you should avoid every micro....
The rest of the argument is that kids like finding caches. Also while some folks say they like the DNF as much as a find I'd bet that if all they ever got were DNFs that most all would soon give up.

We all like to find caches. Unfortunately some of them get away from us. One way to ensure that we have a somwhat higher success rate is to look for caches with a lower difficulty rating. Another is to look for larger caches. A third is to look for larger caches with a low difficulty rating. In fact, many woodsy micros can be avoided by getting rid of micros with a terrain rating higher than 1.5 or 2.

There is more fun to be had finding a cache than not finding one. For any who say otherwise then I'd have to ask a simple question. Your last DNF, fun as it was, would it have not been a bit more fun if at the last second at the moment of giving up you found it?

I can't help you. I'm pretty sure that I've hated every one of my DNFs (and that is a big truckload full of hate, considering all the DNFs I get).

I like larger caches becasue my odds of success increase. There are still plenty of DNF's to be had to keep things a challenge.

I don't understand the problem. You state that one of the reasons that you dislike micros is that they contribute to a higher DNF rate. You then recognize that larger caches are more fun because they have a higher chance of a find. Why don't you simply stop looking for micros?

January 22, 2008

I'm pretty new to this hobby so forgive me if my rational is off, but I kinda figured when starting out that if there was a certain type of cache I didn't like I could just not go after it. From the sound of some people this doesn't seem the case. I guess I am required to go after micros. It's also news to me that having a particular taste in caches means I am entitled to having an inventory of those caches placed by others. Some people seem to suck the fun out of everything. If you don't like them then don't seek them. If your concerned they are taking over your area, then go outside and place some large ones of your own. Just the way I see it.

3.9k · January 22, 2008

A nano glued to a pine cone in a tree isn't a "needle in a haystack"? Sounds like one to me. I agree with some of the points previously made:

Kids generally don't like micros. There might be a few that do, but I believe most do not. My 9 year old has even made the statement "micros suck, dad". He's not wild about walking a mile through the woods, or searching for 30 minutes, only to find a rolled up scrap of paper. Kids like swag. I like swag.

Trade bugs. The way things are going with the proliferation of micros, TB's will soon be extinct. Or at least have nowhere to go.

A nice scenic and/or historic place with a micro means that a regular can't be placed there.

And yeah, these are just our preferences.

Oh well, at least it is always a lively discussion when a micro topic comes up!

Your problem is one of the easiest to solve. Apparently you don't like micros in any setting. The good news is you can use PQs and filter out micros, and you'll never have to hunt for another one.

You'll be happy. Your kids will be happy. The TB owners you're helping will be happy.

What's the downside for you? Why aren't you doing this already?

1.1k · January 22, 2008

I'm pretty new to this hobby so forgive me if my rational is off, but I kinda figured when starting out that if there was a certain type of cache I didn't like I could just not go after it. From the sound of some people this doesn't seem the case. I guess I am required to go after micros. It's also news to me that having a particular taste in caches means I am entitled to having an inventory of those caches placed by others. Some people seem to suck the fun out of everything. If you don't like them then don't seek them. If your concerned they are taking over your area, then go outside and place some large ones of your own. Just the way I see it.

I suspect it's more that they love debating the subject than anything else. If you want to be the Original poster on a long thread just make Micros your topic and watch it grow.

6.7k · January 22, 2008

I'm pretty new to this hobby so forgive me if my rational is off, but I kinda figured when starting out that if there was a certain type of cache I didn't like I could just not go after it. From the sound of some people this doesn't seem the case. I guess I am required to go after micros. It's also news to me that having a particular taste in caches means I am entitled to having an inventory of those caches placed by others. Some people seem to suck the fun out of everything. If you don't like them then don't seek them. If your concerned they are taking over your area, then go outside and place some large ones of your own. Just the way I see it.

What a better caching world it would be if everyone thought like that. Maybe the bolded part should be written into the Guidelines!!

3.2k · January 22, 2008

Kids generally don't like micros. There might be a few that do, but I believe most do not. My 9 year old has even made the statement "micros suck, dad". He's not wild about walking a mile through the woods, or searching for 30 minutes, only to find a rolled up scrap of paper. Kids like swag. I like swag.

We take scouts out as well as teach some local GC classes. Most of the kids I go out with are thrilled more by the technology and the hunt. This may be a case of the "apple and tree" syndrome.

Trade bugs. The way things are going with the proliferation of micros, TB's will soon be extinct. Or at least have nowhere to go.

Must be a regional thing for your area, because around here it has held at a fairly steady ratio. Judging from some of the posts in the forums, that holds true for many other areas as well.

A nice scenic and/or historic place with a micro means that a regular can't be placed there.

Or it just means the hider chose to put a micro there for whatever reason. That's the great thhing about micros, there always an appropriate choice should you decide to go that way.

January 22, 2008

sorry. deleted post.

Edited January 22, 2008 by ncfinn

2.2k · January 22, 2008

Whether it is a micro in the woods or any other location for that matter "DanOCan's Rules of Micros" still apply:

1) My enjoyment of a micro is inversely proportional to the amount of time it takes me to find it.

2) The amount of time it takes to reroll the log will be inversely proportional to the amount of time it took me to find the cache in the first place.

1.4k · January 22, 2008

Whether it is a micro in the woods or any other location for that matter "DanOCan's Rules of Micros" still apply:

1) My enjoyment of a micro is inversely proportional to the amount of time it takes me to find it.

2) The amount of time it takes to reroll the log will be inversely proportional to the amount of time it took me to find the cache in the first place.

I hate those little logs...when possible I avoid signing and just sign the online log with photo evidence that we did indeed find it if needed.

8k · January 22, 2008

I'm pretty new to this hobby so forgive me if my rational is off, but I kinda figured when starting out that if there was a certain type of cache I didn't like I could just not go after it. From the sound of some people this doesn't seem the case. I guess I am required to go after micros. It's also news to me that having a particular taste in caches means I am entitled to having an inventory of those caches placed by others. Some people seem to suck the fun out of everything. If you don't like them then don't seek them. If your concerned they are taking over your area, then go outside and place some large ones of your own. Just the way I see it.

There seem to be two arguments against this approach.

One are the people who actually like some micros. What they don't like are particular micros. Some people object to micros that they feel are just cheap, not well thought out caches - generally something like a film canister under a rock (or in a urban setting - a film canister under a lamppost). These people actually say they enjoy searching for a micro that is cleverly camouflaged and hidden in a "cool" place. Some people are objecting to what they refer to a needle-in-the-haystack micros. These are where there are too many places where the cache could be hidden and no hint to help you out. Some want every cache to be findable in 7 minutes or less. In any case, some people are complaining that there is no way to avoid the micros they don't like and still get to find the ones they may enjoy. Ideas to help people target caches with a finer resolution besides the cache size are welcome.

The other argument is from people who feel that micros in the wood cause (or are more likely to cause) environmental damage. While there is some anecdotal evidence of "scorched earth searches" it isn't clear that micros - even needle-in-the-haystack ones - are the cause of this. Clearly some caches may be placed inappropriately where searchers might cause damage to a sensitive area. It seems reasonable in these threads to discuss whether there are times where it would be better to hide a regular size cache that might be less likely to encourage damaging searches.

1k · January 22, 2008

In reading thru this thread it becomes clearly obvious (to those of us with the perception to see the clearly obvious) that everyone has different tastes and opinions. Was that not profound? Duh! Geocaching allows you the rights and abilities to seek what you like, and not what you don't. You can't mandate creativity. And all you can do is whine about the lack of it. People normally set out to hide the type of caches they like to find. Thus, you can tell a lot about someone by the hides that they have placed.

I have hauled ammo boxes and camoed micro stages dozens of miles in the woods for a multi cache series. If you eliminated micros in the woods, how would you do a multi-cache? Haul five ammo cans so people don't have to look for micros? If a large area has a good multi-cache foundation with a full sized final, a few smalls scattered about, and a few well thought out micro's sprinkled along the way, that's a good day of caching!

The imagination that goes into a hide is what counts, regardless of it's size. Even an ammo box tossed at the base of a tree is boring compared to a decon covered in moss hanging from a fishing line up in a tree. After hiding (and regularly maintaining) several hundred caches of all types, and using as much imagination as I can muster, you learn as you go and learn as you find. Same goes with seeking. The size, difficulty, terrain, description, hints and previous logs are all there to allow each of us to seek exactly what we want to seek and weed out the rest. Just because you didn't like a hide doesn't mean the dozens before you didn't and the dozens after you won't.

Some of us are here for the adventure and the challenge and not just big numbers.

January 22, 2008

I'm pretty new to this hobby so forgive me if my rational is off, but I kinda figured when starting out that if there was a certain type of cache I didn't like I could just not go after it. From the sound of some people this doesn't seem the case. I guess I am required to go after micros. It's also news to me that having a particular taste in caches means I am entitled to having an inventory of those caches placed by others. Some people seem to suck the fun out of everything. If you don't like them then don't seek them. If your concerned they are taking over your area, then go outside and place some large ones of your own. Just the way I see it.

I'm a newbie also and have much the same sentiments. I've been reading this thread with a bit of bafflement.

24.7k · January 22, 2008

...

Must be a regional thing for your area, because around here it has held at a fairly steady ratio. Judging from some of the posts in the forums, that holds true for many other areas as well....

Micro's just mean TB's do more of their traveling in my pack. "Another micro. Looks like today isn't your day little TB. Maybe I'll drop you in that TB prison on my way back to town, at least you will have company".

January 22, 2008

We take scouts out as well as teach some local GC classes. Most of the kids I go out with are thrilled more by the technology and the hunt. This may be a case of the "apple and tree" syndrome.

From my experience as a Preschool teacher in my younger days, my education in Child Psychology, and as a mom of three kids under 10, a young child's opinion on a situation is usually a reflection of the accompanying adult. There is an age where children really start to think for themselves about most subjects starting generally in the pre-teen ages (some subjects such as politics and other more adult topics form later).

With that in mind, a child is less likely to enjoy things that their parent dislikes. If your child dislikes micros, alot of it could stem from the fact that you don't speak fondly of them. Or even your mood and attitude can shift while searching for one. Children are very perceptive and pick up on small emotional cues. It might have little to do with what your child truly likes and dislikes. When asking a young child why they dislike something, often you will hear, "My Mommy/Daddy doesn't like it".

Certainly, a child will be more apt to like something where a prize is involved. But most parents teach that a person doesn't need to win or purchase something every day or every time a new situation arises, or we would all be penniless from buying a gazillion little toys for our kids. Children are capable of understanding how a game can be fun without a prize being involved. Don't we all teach our kids that winning isn't everything, that playing the game to the best of their abilities has it's merits as well? I am positive that if my three kids can find enjoyment in not taking away a treasure at every turn, that other children can as well. It's all in how the situation is approached by the adults.

With that being said, this game is not only for children, and it would be shame to see the variety of options taken away from this game/sport. I think most people would get tired of caching if every find resulted in an ammo can. It is variety that is the spice in life. And it is easy to avoid caches that might be distasteful to us. While there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion in a open forum on this matter, the solution is an easy one.

Edited January 22, 2008 by elmuyloco5

5.3k · January 22, 2008

I think some travel bug have become event bugs, about the only place you can find them or leave them is on the Travel Bug table at events.

January 22, 2008

Here's a pic from my youngest daughter's first find of a micro ... in the woods. She was so proud! (Lest some wag ask, that's my daughter's doll "Betsy", not my daughter.)

StumpWater

20.7k · January 22, 2008

...
Must be a regional thing for your area, because around here it has held at a fairly steady ratio. Judging from some of the posts in the forums, that holds true for many other areas as well....

Micro's just mean TB's do more of their traveling in my pack. "Another micro. Looks like today isn't your day little TB. Maybe I'll drop you in that TB prison on my way back to town, at least you will have company".

I'll tell you how I play this scenario.

If the caches I have planned to find for the day are all micros, I won't imagine that they are TB friendly. In fact, if I have TBs that need to move, I'll probably go ahead and search out non-micros so I am reasonably sure that they'll keep moving. If I was not going to cache in areas that offered non-micros, perhaps I should either adjust my caching plans so the TB can get moving or I should have not picked up the TB.

A number of people are trying to make the argument that micros are proliferating like crazy and that no one in your area is hiding non-micros. I believe this to be untrue in almost all areas.

24.7k · January 22, 2008

...With that being said, this game is not only for children, and it would be shame to see the variety of options taken away from this game/sport. I think most people would get tired of caching if every find resulted in an ammo can. It is variety that is the spice in life. And it is easy to avoid caches that might be distasteful to us. While there is nothing wrong with expressing your opinion in a open forum on this matter, the solution is an easy one.

My wife and my kids figured it out on their own. My enthusiams for micro's lasted far longer than theirs.

The thing about a good rule of thumb is that you won't go wrong if you employ it. "Plant your garden when the snow on yon mountain is gone". That doesn't mean that you can't start your tomato's in the house. But it does mean you won't go wrong planting things outside when the snow is gone.

Ditto on the rule of thumb for using the largest container the area can reasonable support. You won't go wrong and break the game and limit peoples options if you employ it. However if you are going to break it you should know why and how this is going to work. The tomato's you start in the house because your growing season is short and you need the lead time, but you can't risk them being frozen. Come fall you will put a cover over them... You adapt to reality and grow tomatos as a result. Ditto caches. In general larger is better and that has been demonstraed in this thread. That doesn't mean that there isn't room for innovation and creativity, but if you think you can just go drop a film canister under a log and create a fun and diverse caching enviroment, you are not ready to venture from the safety of the rule of thumb. Your wet log, and cache logs (or lack of them) will teach you that soon enough.

Bottom line. Sometimes to successfully think outside the box it helps to understand why the box is there to begin with. Bad pun intended.

January 22, 2008

I've only placed micros, four of them, with coordinate clues to a final traditional cache.

January 22, 2008

My wife and my kids figured it out on their own. My enthusiams for micro's lasted far longer than theirs.

The thing about a good rule of thumb is that you won't go wrong if you employ it. "Plant your garden when the snow on yon mountain is gone". That doesn't mean that you can't start your tomato's in the house. But it does mean you won't go wrong planting things outside when the snow is gone.

Ditto on the rule of thumb for using the largest container the area can reasonable support. You won't go wrong and break the game and limit peoples options if you employ it. However if you are going to break it you should know why and how this is going to work. The tomato's you start in the house because your growing season is short and you need the lead time, but you can't risk them being frozen. Come fall you will put a cover over them... You adapt to reality and grow tomatos as a result. Ditto caches. In general larger is better and that has been demonstraed in this thread. That doesn't mean that there isn't room for innovation and creativity, but if you think you can just go drop a film canister under a log and create a fun and diverse caching enviroment, you are not ready to venture from the safety of the rule of thumb. Your wet log, and cache logs (or lack of them) will teach you that soon enough.

Bottom line. Sometimes to successfully think outside the box it helps to understand why the box is there to begin with. Bad pun intended.

I agree that there is merit to your rule of thumb, however your rule takes out some of the creativity and fun in the hide. The way the guidelines read now, I can choose to create with the container size I would like to for the space that is open for me to hide in. Sometimes one might have the space to hide a large container, but a more cleverly disguised micro would create a fun search in the area. I'm not saying all rules are bad, some have their place and a reason to be put into action. But rules in general stifle creativity. Since micros aren't hurting anyone (and before you bring up the environment, micros don't hurt the environment, people do), I don't see any reason why the site should stifle the creativity of it's members. Infact, if you spoke to TPTB at Groundspeak, I think you'd hear the same thing. There might be some who also do not like micros, but they would probably all tell you that you can filter them out and easily not search for them.

24.7k · January 22, 2008

...I'll tell you how I play this scenario.

If the caches I have planned to find for the day are all micros, I won't imagine that they are TB friendly. In fact, if I have TBs that need to move, I'll probably go ahead and search out non-micros so I am reasonably sure that they'll keep moving. If I was not going to cache in areas that offered non-micros, perhaps I should either adjust my caching plans so the TB can get moving or I should have not picked up the TB.

A number of people are trying to make the argument that micros are proliferating like crazy and that no one in your area is hiding non-micros. I believe this to be untrue in almost all areas.

I play that scenario a bit differently. "Looks like Logan has a buch of caches, lets make a day of it".

Whoops Micro

Micro.

Cool Reguar.

Hey, nice spot, Micro

Hey I didnt know you could get an ammo can there...

Not having fun at this one..

Ugh, micro lets drive by.

Well Mr. Security we are looking for a cache, you think it might be there? Cool. How, what about this next one, know where that one might be?

Looks like this one fell victum to mailbox baseball...

I plan a route but the caches are what they are. Most times they could have used a larger container and changed nothing about the hide except allowing swag and a log book big enough to sign. No pine cones, no creative angle needing the micro. Just a container under a shrub.

A garden variety hide does not get better with the use of a micro. Locally most folks graduated to decon or larger and guess what? We suddently got comments from out of towners that came through and were pleasantly suprised. How cool is that?

Creativity matters more than size, but size matters a heck of a lot more than folks seem to grasp.

20.7k · January 22, 2008

I've found that proper planning helps me keep having fun. Not always, because my poor attitude can get in the way, but usually.

For instance, if I found myself getting tired of finding micro after micro, I would stop planning to hunt for micros.

Someone, perhaps Toz or Snoogans, recently made a very interesting post where he surmised that PQs have made us non-planners and turned us into crybabies when we weren't satisfied with the caches that we chose to find. (He put it much better.)

January 22, 2008

Creativity matters more than size, but size matters a heck of a lot more than folks seem to grasp.

I would agree with you if you changed your rule. I think the above statement even shows that you agree that some change could be made to it.

Why not:

At the end of the day a good rule of thumb is to use the largest or most creative container the area can reasonably support.

Edited January 22, 2008 by elmuyloco5

24.7k · January 22, 2008

...however your rule takes out some of the creativity and fun in the hide. ...

You are confusing "micro vs larger" with creative. A micro is a size, size is a tool in the bag of tricks to make a creative cache. Some creative ideas will only work with a micro. Great bring it on. Some will work with a larger cache as well. Great use the larger cache. Some ideas only work in certain locations regardless of the cache size.

All the rule of thumb says is this. "Bigger matters because it allows swag, logs, tbs and other angles to this activity that micro's don't so unless you have a complelling reason to use a micro, you should stick to bigger".

My last micro was a roll of tape used to stripe roads backed with adventure paper. It was unique in that I had never seen it done. I stuck it in parking lot near a lamp post. That was 'the' spot. I recon I could have stuck it in the woods but the natural enviroment wouldn't work for it. I placed it where the paint was missing. It didn't blend exactly but it did belong there. No option to use an ammo can. No way to even use a breath mint strip or a nano. The cache was what it was. Had I merely wanted to toss a film canister under the nearby shrub I would have gone for a Decon Conainer as it was larger and the hide wasn't changed.

A rule of thumb isn't a guideline and should not be enforced. After all you can plant your tomato's whenever you dang well like. You talk about stifeling creativity. Pish Posh. Be creative, but use a larger container when you can. It's really pretty simple and it's actually considerate of most of your fellow cachers. If you find one lamenting in your logs "Oh, I was sooo hoping that it would be a film canister under this juniper" I'll mail you one of my custom made Red Neck Geocoins. I'll even make it a micro.

20.7k · January 22, 2008

How about:

At the end of the day, a good rule of thumb is to choose the container that you feel is best for your cache.

14.3k · January 22, 2008

It is my opinion that the cache itself is never to blame. A lame hider is going to create a lame cache, regardless of what kind of container they use. A creative hider is going to create a kewl cache, regardless of what kind of container they use. Now that I've learned who to avoid, my fun meter peaks far more frequently.

This is exactly right! It is far more effective to ignore all the caches from those hiding the stuff that you don't enjoy.

January 22, 2008

A rule of thumb isn't a guideline and should not be enforced. After all you can plant your tomato's whenever you dang well like. You talk about stifeling creativity. Pish Posh. Be creative, but use a larger container when you can. It's really pretty simple and it's actually considerate of most of your fellow cachers. If you find one lamenting in your logs "Oh, I was sooo hoping that it would be a film canister under this juniper" I'll mail you one of my custom made Red Neck Geocoins. I'll even make it a micro.

My point was to show how your "rule of thumb" could be better applied to not stifle creativity. Where I find issue with your rule is that there are places that you might be able to hide a large container, but that a creative container that requires the cache to be small, might be more interesting and therefore more enjoyable for a whole of people.

Take for instance a drive through the mountains. At most spots that you can stop, an ammo can be hidden. But, a smaller more creative container could be alot more fun. Like the staked reflectors that guide you down a road. I've never seen a cache like that in person, but have seen them talked about on the forum. It not only fits in the area, since there are likely more of those along a mountain road, but it's something much more unexpected than an ammo can.

I'm not saying that is the perfect container for the spot, but I have yet to read a log for a cache with a clever container (no matter what size that it is) that has been negative. Ours have all been received very well.

The point isn't to change your opinion on micros, or anyone else's for that matter. But there are those of us out there that do enjoy a micro. Do we enjoy all micros? Probably not, but that's not a reason to stop hiding them where larger containers should be. I don't want to get into an argument, it's just silly. I like them, you don't. We can still get along. I'm just glad that the actual guidelines allow for the hider to be just as creative as they want to be.....with any size container.

6.7k · January 22, 2008

It is my opinion that the cache itself is never to blame. A lame hider is going to create a lame cache, regardless of what kind of container they use. A creative hider is going to create a kewl cache, regardless of what kind of container they use. Now that I've learned who to avoid, my fun meter peaks far more frequently.
This is exactly right! It is far more effective to ignore all the caches from those hiding the stuff that you don't enjoy.

I'm not sure such generalizations work!

I have, among others:

a double-size ammo box TB Hotel on my front porch

a magnetic keyholder 10' up the leg of a billboard

8 ammo boxes well hidden on seperate islands in a big lake

a film can in a rock wall behind a country store

an evil nano in the woods outside a cemetery

an ammo box you can see from 40' away in the woods at my lake house

That's pretty reflective of how cachers in my area do things, no two are alike... not liking one of a cacher's hides doesn't mean that you won't like their others.

14.3k · January 22, 2008

It is my opinion that the cache itself is never to blame. A lame hider is going to create a lame cache, regardless of what kind of container they use. A creative hider is going to create a kewl cache, regardless of what kind of container they use. Now that I've learned who to avoid, my fun meter peaks far more frequently.
This is exactly right! It is far more effective to ignore all the caches from those hiding the stuff that you don't enjoy.

I'm not sure such generalizations work!

I have, among others:

a double-size ammo box TB Hotel on my front porch

a magnetic keyholder 10' up the leg of a billboard

8 ammo boxes well hidden on seperate islands in a big lake

a film can in a rock wall behind a country store

an evil nano in the woods outside a cemetery

an ammo box you can see from 40' away in the woods at my lake house

That's pretty reflective of how cachers in my area do things, no two are alike... not liking one of a cacher's hides doesn't mean that you won't like their others.

I wouldn't ignore you. We don't have a lot of the ones that I was talking about but they sure seem to hide a lot of caches.

January 22, 2008

I believe it's not the size of the cache that matters, it's what you do with it.

I couldn't resist.

14.3k · January 22, 2008

I believe it's not the size of the cache that matters, it's what you do with it.

I couldn't resist.

1k · January 22, 2008

It all boils down to the creativity used in the hide. I have caches that are ammo cans that stand three feet tall and could hold enough supplies for a month, I also have micros that are almost as big because of the camo job. I have tupperware that when you add the camo weighs +40-lbs. I have found 5 gallon bucket caches that were ::yawn:: a bore and also found 5 gallon bucket caches that were a hoot!!! Creativity!

As far as the argument against micros in the woods and kids liking trade items, I doubt people will drag their kids on a 12 mile rustic hike let alone worry if a cache they find has trade items. That's what that 'kid friendly' attribute is for.

When it comes down to brass tacks, a railroad car sized cache or a nano sized cache both boil down to 1 find, what matters is the fun you had while doing it.

January 22, 2008

At the end of the day, a good rule of thumb is to choose the container that you feel is best for your cache.

Bingo. And, though I'm sure it won't be, that should be the end of the discussion.

StumpWater

1k · January 22, 2008

Bingo. And, though I'm sure it won't be, that should be the end of the discussion.

Agreed with the exception it shouldn't of been a discussion to start with. Just a bunch of personal opinions flying back and forth that carries no more weight then debating if someone should be allowed to post a find as just TFTH! or do the have to write a minimum of thirty words. Don't search for something you don't want to and keep your opinions about micros in the woods in here and not in the logs....

24.7k · January 22, 2008

Creativity matters more than size, but size matters a heck of a lot more than folks seem to grasp.

I would agree with you if you changed your rule. I think the above statement even shows that you agree that some change could be made to it.

Why not:

At the end of the day a good rule of thumb is to use the largest or most creative container the area can reasonably support.

You got me to thinking. I have another rule of thumb that covers the creative angle.

Never let the rules and regs get in the way of a good cache.

That's the simple way to say if you have a creative cache that should exist that meets the spirit and intent of caching by all means place it. The guidelines are flexible, the rule of thumb above is a rule of thumb it's not a natural law. You still have to deal with reality. Placing a cache 220 feet from another one because you found the perfect spot won't get it approved on this site, but...there are other sites and 220' is far enough to prevent finding the wrong cache. And so on. I should clarify that a good cache won't give caching a black eye. Burying a cache in the right spot is fine. Most spots are not right, but if you do find the the right one, it deserves a cache.

24.7k · January 22, 2008

How about:

At the end of the day, a good rule of thumb is to choose the container that you feel is best for your cache.

Keeping in mind the other rules of thumb.

9.3k · January 23, 2008

The imagination that goes into a hide is what counts, regardless of it's size.

Brilliant!

1.4k · January 23, 2008

I always though a moose nugget would make a good micro in the woods. At least its natural.

1k · January 23, 2008

I always though a moose nugget would make a good micro in the woods. At least its natural.

Hmmm, I would think a moose nugget would qualify as a "regular" and not a "micro" but what do I know... :yikes:

Micros in the woods

Recommended Posts

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment

Link to comment