FTF credit on Earthcaches

[+dekoning]

When being the first to solve and log an Earthcache, may one claim FTF? I have revised my previously worded question. I understand there are not FTF "RIGHTS"

Edited January 15, 2008 by dekoning

[+StarBrand]

Not necessarily. First to find was the first one to complete it based on date and time.

 

FTF loses a lot of meaning with something as virtual as an Earthcache. Not sure it really should mean anything.

[Mushtang]

What are "FTF rights"?

[+hydnsek]

When being the first to log an Earthcache are FTF rights earned?

Well, there are no FTF "rights," but sure, you can claim a FTF like any other cache, as long as you are first to complete the requirements. With a virtual it's bit more vague, but there was a FTF log on my earthcache placement.

[+ADKSherpa]

Hmm, this reminds me of this cache. I guess it would (at least in my opinion). Although they nolonger exist, it would be the same as Virtual Caches and things like that. The First to Find is the first to find the cache, even if theyre have been other muggles there before, they havent found the cache, whether its a real container or not.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

I would probably claim an FTF if it was apparent that I was first to actually visit the site and complete the requirements. I wouldn't make a huge deal about it, but I'd quietly add it to my own personal FTF list.

[+MountainRacer]

I would probably claim an FTF if it was apparent that I was first to actually visit the site and complete the requirements. I wouldn't make a huge deal about it, but I'd quietly add it to my own personal FTF list.

 

I agree. Most earthcaches require a combination of physical and mental input that can be considered analogous to the hike and hunt for a normal cache. I think this merits an FTF tally. Also, keep in mind that it's supposed to be about fun, not numbers, and if you're that concerned about other people "padding their stats", maybe you should re-evaluate what caching means to you. And then you should have some chocolate ice cream to lighten your mood. That tends to help.

[+briansnat]

What are "FTF rights"?

 

I've heard the term and wondered the same thing. Are you the first to find it? Then you are the FTF.

 

Common sense dictates that you cannot be the FTF on an earthcache because someone else had discovered it before you.

 

If however you want to call yourself the FTF for being the first person to log the earthcache after it was listed, who am I to tell you no? Knock yourself out.

[+joranda]

No one really knows who are the FTF on earth caches but we know who is the FTL now don't we.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

Common sense dictates that you cannot be the FTF on an earthcache because someone else had discovered it before you.

 

I will argue (but not vigorously) that despite the fact that other non-cachers have discovered the earthcache before, a cacher can still be FTF.

 

First of all, FTF is a geocaching term, and in my opinion it pertains to the first 'geocacher' to find the earthcache.

 

Secondly, earthcaches often require something more than merely visiting the location, such as answering questions or posting pictures. As these are requirements to be able to log the cache as 'found', then the first cacher to do this is technically the first to have 'found' the cache.

[+joranda]

Common sense dictates that you cannot be the FTF on an earthcache because someone else had discovered it before you.

 

I will argue (but not vigorously) that despite the fact that other non-cachers have discovered the earthcache before, a cacher can still be FTF.

 

First of all, FTF is a geocaching term, and in my opinion it pertains to the first 'geocacher' to find the earthcache.

 

Secondly, earthcaches often require something more than merely visiting the location, such as answering questions or posting pictures. As these are requirements to be able to log the cache as 'found', then the first cacher to do this is technically the first to have 'found' the cache.

 

So what happens when you see a new earthcahe get published and you run out for the FTF. You get there and take your picture write down the info and head home with your FTF post your find but see it has been log before you got home. who knows if they where there before or after you but they got the FTL (first to log). That's why it's hard to ever figure a FTF on a earthcache with no log bok to sign.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

Common sense dictates that you cannot be the FTF on an earthcache because someone else had discovered it before you.

 

I will argue (but not vigorously) that despite the fact that other non-cachers have discovered the earthcache before, a cacher can still be FTF.

 

First of all, FTF is a geocaching term, and in my opinion it pertains to the first 'geocacher' to find the earthcache.

 

Secondly, earthcaches often require something more than merely visiting the location, such as answering questions or posting pictures. As these are requirements to be able to log the cache as 'found', then the first cacher to do this is technically the first to have 'found' the cache.

 

So what happens when you see a new earthcahe get published and you run out for the FTF. You get there and take your picture write down the info and head home with your FTF post your find but see it has been log before you got home. who knows if they where there before or after you but they got the FTL (first to log). That's why it's hard to ever figure a FTF on a earthcache with no log bok to sign.

 

Good question. Above I was merely suggesting that it is possible for someone to be FTF on an earthcache. I'm sure there are many scenarios that might make it difficult to actually determine who is FTF. I personally would only consider myself FTF if it was apparent that I was first to visit and complete the requirements (per my previous log below).

 

I would probably claim an FTF if it was apparent that I was first to actually visit the site and complete the requirements. I wouldn't make a huge deal about it, but I'd quietly add it to my own personal FTF list.

[+welch]

When being the first to solve and log an Earthcache, may one claim FTF? I have revised my previously worded question. I understand there are not FTF "RIGHTS"

Personally I say who cares.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

When being the first to solve and log an Earthcache, may one claim FTF? I have revised my previously worded question. I understand there are not FTF "RIGHTS"

Personally I say who cares.

I'd say the OP might care, and possibly several people participating in this discussion.

[+welch]

When being the first to solve and log an Earthcache, may one claim FTF? I have revised my previously worded question. I understand there are not FTF "RIGHTS"

Personally I say who cares.

I'd say the OP might care, and possibly several people participating in this discussion.

Buy WHY?

Its some perception based number. If you say you have 99 marbles, and I say one of them is chipped and it doesn't count, do you have 99 or not? If someone else says the big shooter counts twice, do you have 99 or not? If yet another person says that the alley cat's eyes are best and only they count but not your toothpaste or any aggies, do you have 99 or not? If someone has to tell you how many you have, do you have 99 or not?

[+3 Hawks]

When being the first to solve and log an Earthcache, may one claim FTF? I have revised my previously worded question. I understand there are not FTF "RIGHTS"

Personally I say who cares.

I'd say the OP might care, and possibly several people participating in this discussion.

Buy WHY?

Its some perception based number. If you say you have 99 marbles, and I say one of them is chipped and it doesn't count, do you have 99 or not? If someone else says the big shooter counts twice, do you have 99 or not? If yet another person says that the alley cat's eyes are best and only they count but not your toothpaste or any aggies, do you have 99 or not? If someone has to tell you how many you have, do you have 99 or not?

Are you some kind of super genius?

[+welch]

Are you some kind of super genius?

If I was I wouldn't be trying to figure out how some people can care about a number and yet at the same time need others to define that number for them.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

Are you some kind of super genius?

If I was I wouldn't be trying to figure out how some people can care about a number and yet at the same time need others to define that number for them.

You also wouldn't come on to a forum topic that you don't care about and add a post merely stating that you don't care.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

When being the first to solve and log an Earthcache, may one claim FTF? I have revised my previously worded question. I understand there are not FTF "RIGHTS"

Personally I say who cares.

I'd say the OP might care, and possibly several people participating in this discussion.

Buy WHY?

Its some perception based number. If you say you have 99 marbles, and I say one of them is chipped and it doesn't count, do you have 99 or not? If someone else says the big shooter counts twice, do you have 99 or not? If yet another person says that the alley cat's eyes are best and only they count but not your toothpaste or any aggies, do you have 99 or not? If someone has to tell you how many you have, do you have 99 or not?

But why not? It seems to me you are suggesting that some things are not worth tracking or counting because people might disagree on the criteria. What if I want to track my own accomplishments using my own criteria? Why do you suggest I not do that?

 

The answer to your marble question above is 'I have 99 marbles', because I am using my own criteria to count my own marbles. I am also OK if you think I have a different number of marbles. But please don't suggest that I am wrong to even count my own marbles.

 

This forum is a good resource for those people who want to count their own FTFs (or marbles) to discuss the criteria they use.

[Dj Storm]

 

So what happens when you see a new earthcahe get published and you run out for the FTF. You get there and take your picture write down the info and head home with your FTF post your find but see it has been log before you got home. who knows if they where there before or after you but they got the FTL (first to log). That's why it's hard to ever figure a FTF on a earthcache with no log bok to sign.

 

If the earthcache requires to send some answers to the cache owner in order to log a find, then the owner can tell who is the FTF, based on the timestamp of the emails. In the case above, probably the first to log is the FTF, because he/she was first to complete the ALR (sending the picture/answers to the CO).

[+joranda]

 

So what happens when you see a new earthcahe get published and you run out for the FTF. You get there and take your picture write down the info and head home with your FTF post your find but see it has been log before you got home. who knows if they where there before or after you but they got the FTL (first to log). That's why it's hard to ever figure a FTF on a earthcache with no log bok to sign.

 

If the earthcache requires to send some answers to the cache owner in order to log a find, then the owner can tell who is the FTF, based on the timestamp of the emails. In the case above, probably the first to log is the FTF, because he/she was first to complete the ALR (sending the picture/answers to the CO).

 

That still doesn't mean that they where at the earthcache before the next person. Maybe they where the 2nd one there but lives closer so they can get on the computer first and log there find. So they would be FTL (First to Log) but not really the FTF. See what I was getting at now.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

 

So what happens when you see a new earthcahe get published and you run out for the FTF. You get there and take your picture write down the info and head home with your FTF post your find but see it has been log before you got home. who knows if they where there before or after you but they got the FTL (first to log). That's why it's hard to ever figure a FTF on a earthcache with no log bok to sign.

 

If the earthcache requires to send some answers to the cache owner in order to log a find, then the owner can tell who is the FTF, based on the timestamp of the emails. In the case above, probably the first to log is the FTF, because he/she was first to complete the ALR (sending the picture/answers to the CO).

 

That still doesn't mean that they where at the earthcache before the next person. Maybe they where the 2nd one there but lives closer so they can get on the computer first and log there find. So they would be FTL (First to Log) but not really the FTF. See what I was getting at now.

 

Good point. This is a tricky one. Is the objective of the cache to visit the site and collect the information, or to demonstrate to the owner that you have done this via an e-mail. I personally feel that it is the former.

 

If I were inolved I would simply ask the cacher(s) what time they were there.

[+LewisClan77]

I did this one...GC167VM a while ago. I went and completed the requirements, then I submitted them first and logged first. Yes, I did log as FTF. A day later another cacher logged their find on the day before mine, with the date on the picture to prove it. But I was the first to submit the info and log online, so I didn't change my FTF.

[+Chuy!]

I did this one...GC167VM a while ago. I went and completed the requirements, then I submitted them first and logged first. Yes, I did log as FTF. A day later another cacher logged their find on the day before mine, with the date on the picture to prove it. But I was the first to submit the info and log online, so I didn't change my FTF.

The general consensus is that an FTF is the first to sign the cache log, or, in this discussion, the first to meet the earthcache find requirements. Since the other cacher has proven he/she was first to meet the requirements, he/she is the 'true' FTF'er, and your FTF claim is 'tainted'. I would remove my 'claim', but's that's just my unsolicited opinion.

[+welch]

Are you some kind of super genius?

If I was I wouldn't be trying to figure out how some people can care about a number and yet at the same time need others to define that number for them.

You also wouldn't come on to a forum topic that you don't care about and add a post merely stating that you don't care.

I don't care what dekoning's number is.

What I find interesting enough to respond is why people care enough about a number they apperently can't define .

Edited January 17, 2008 by welch

[+welch]

Buy WHY?

Its some perception based number. If you say you have 99 marbles, and I say one of them is chipped and it doesn't count, do you have 99 or not? If someone else says the big shooter counts twice, do you have 99 or not? If yet another person says that the alley cat's eyes are best and only they count but not your toothpaste or any aggies, do you have 99 or not? If someone has to tell you how many you have, do you have 99 or not?

But why not? It seems to me you are suggesting that some things are not worth tracking or counting because people might disagree on the criteria. What if I want to track my own accomplishments using my own criteria? Why do you suggest I not do that?

 

The answer to your marble question above is 'I have 99 marbles', because I am using my own criteria to count my own marbles. I am also OK if you think I have a different number of marbles. But please don't suggest that I am wrong to even count my own marbles.

 

This forum is a good resource for those people who want to count their own FTFs (or marbles) to discuss the criteria they use.

No, what I am suggesting is that for someone to know what their number (or FTF, marbles or whatever) they must first know what that thing (FTF, marbles, or whatever) is. If they can't explain what a (whatever) is to themselves, they can't possiably count them.

 

LOL, your getting there . For the OP to come and say 'does this count' isn't of any help to them. If they want to count the, they must count them. How I would count, or you would count, or anyone else would count doesn't matter, hence the 'who cares'. I would think if the OP can't figure out if it counts or not, maybe they don't care either .

 

Yes it is a good place to discuss criteria. However, was this thread "what criteria do you use?" or was it "does this count?"

Edited January 17, 2008 by welch

[+dekoning]

Are you some kind of super genius?

If I was I wouldn't be trying to figure out how some people can care about a number and yet at the same time need others to define that number for them.

You also wouldn't come on to a forum topic that you don't care about and add a post merely stating that you don't care.

I don't care what dekoning's number is.

What I find interesting enough to respond is why people care enough about a number they apperently can't define .

I don't care what my number is either! I was asking a general question as I have seen it addressed both ways. I also see many cachers log their own caches. I don't, and I don't like it, but I am not the world caching police. My numbers are based on my principles and are for my own edification not for worldly approval.

[+egami]

When being the first to solve and log an Earthcache, may one claim FTF? I have revised my previously worded question. I understand there are not FTF "RIGHTS"

Personally I say who cares.

 

As the great prophet Ming Ming says..."This is sewious!"

 

[+Renegade Knight]

FTF is FTF having completed all required steps.

 

A muggle may find an earth cache container but if they don't then get online and answer the questions they are not contenders for FTF.

 

Most times FTF is just about finding the box. Sometimes though there is more involved. Not completeing the more disqualifies you from the race.

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

Buy WHY?

Its some perception based number. If you say you have 99 marbles, and I say one of them is chipped and it doesn't count, do you have 99 or not? If someone else says the big shooter counts twice, do you have 99 or not? If yet another person says that the alley cat's eyes are best and only they count but not your toothpaste or any aggies, do you have 99 or not? If someone has to tell you how many you have, do you have 99 or not?

But why not? It seems to me you are suggesting that some things are not worth tracking or counting because people might disagree on the criteria. What if I want to track my own accomplishments using my own criteria? Why do you suggest I not do that?

 

The answer to your marble question above is 'I have 99 marbles', because I am using my own criteria to count my own marbles. I am also OK if you think I have a different number of marbles. But please don't suggest that I am wrong to even count my own marbles.

 

This forum is a good resource for those people who want to count their own FTFs (or marbles) to discuss the criteria they use.

No, what I am suggesting is that for someone to know what their number (or FTF, marbles or whatever) they must first know what that thing (FTF, marbles, or whatever) is. If they can't explain what a (whatever) is to themselves, they can't possiably count them.

 

LOL, your getting there . For the OP to come and say 'does this count' isn't of any help to them. If they want to count the, they must count them. How I would count, or you would count, or anyone else would count doesn't matter, hence the 'who cares'. I would think if the OP can't figure out if it counts or not, maybe they don't care either .

 

Yes it is a good place to discuss criteria. However, was this thread "what criteria do you use?" or was it "does this count?"

 

I read many forum questions as asking "What is your opinion?" rather than "What is the definitive answer?". I certainly read this forum question that way.

 

By asking peoples' opinions on whether they would count an earthcache as an FTF, they are seeking to establish criteria for counting FTFs.

 

I see nothing wrong with first understanding others' opinions on a subject before settling on your own opinion.

[+Cav Scout]

Would that be a FTA (first to answer)? And what is a earth cache container? And how would a muggle know to get online? Not all regular caches have websight information in them, and I've never seen a container at a Earth Cache. How many earth caches have you found with a container of some sort ?

 

Just wondering .

 

FTF is FTF having completed all required steps.

 

A muggle may find an earth cache container but if they don't then get online and answer the questions they are not contenders for FTF.

 

Most times FTF is just about finding the box. Sometimes though there is more involved. Not completeing the more disqualifies you from the race.

Edited January 18, 2008 by Cav Scout

[+joranda]

Buy WHY?

Its some perception based number. If you say you have 99 marbles, and I say one of them is chipped and it doesn't count, do you have 99 or not? If someone else says the big shooter counts twice, do you have 99 or not? If yet another person says that the alley cat's eyes are best and only they count but not your toothpaste or any aggies, do you have 99 or not? If someone has to tell you how many you have, do you have 99 or not?

But why not? It seems to me you are suggesting that some things are not worth tracking or counting because people might disagree on the criteria. What if I want to track my own accomplishments using my own criteria? Why do you suggest I not do that?

 

The answer to your marble question above is 'I have 99 marbles', because I am using my own criteria to count my own marbles. I am also OK if you think I have a different number of marbles. But please don't suggest that I am wrong to even count my own marbles.

 

This forum is a good resource for those people who want to count their own FTFs (or marbles) to discuss the criteria they use.

No, what I am suggesting is that for someone to know what their number (or FTF, marbles or whatever) they must first know what that thing (FTF, marbles, or whatever) is. If they can't explain what a (whatever) is to themselves, they can't possiably count them.

 

LOL, your getting there . For the OP to come and say 'does this count' isn't of any help to them. If they want to count the, they must count them. How I would count, or you would count, or anyone else would count doesn't matter, hence the 'who cares'. I would think if the OP can't figure out if it counts or not, maybe they don't care either .

 

Yes it is a good place to discuss criteria. However, was this thread "what criteria do you use?" or was it "does this count?"

 

I read many forum questions as asking "What is your opinion?" rather than "What is the definitive answer?". I certainly read this forum question that way.

 

By asking peoples' opinions on whether they would count an earthcache as an FTF, they are seeking to establish criteria for counting FTFs.

 

I see nothing wrong with first understanding others' opinions on a subject before settling on your own opinion.

 

Well said.

[+LewisClan77]

 

As the great prophet Ming Ming says..."This is sewious!"

 

Oh No. You busted out the Wonder Pets

[+welch]

But why not? It seems to me you are suggesting that some things are not worth tracking or counting because people might disagree on the criteria. What if I want to track my own accomplishments using my own criteria? Why do you suggest I not do that?

 

The answer to your marble question above is 'I have 99 marbles', because I am using my own criteria to count my own marbles. I am also OK if you think I have a different number of marbles. But please don't suggest that I am wrong to even count my own marbles.

 

This forum is a good resource for those people who want to count their own FTFs (or marbles) to discuss the criteria they use.

No, what I am suggesting is that for someone to know what their number (or FTF, marbles or whatever) they must first know what that thing (FTF, marbles, or whatever) is. If they can't explain what a (whatever) is to themselves, they can't possiably count them.

 

LOL, your getting there . For the OP to come and say 'does this count' isn't of any help to them. If they want to count the, they must count them. How I would count, or you would count, or anyone else would count doesn't matter, hence the 'who cares'. I would think if the OP can't figure out if it counts or not, maybe they don't care either .

 

Yes it is a good place to discuss criteria. However, was this thread "what criteria do you use?" or was it "does this count?"

 

I read many forum questions as asking "What is your opinion?" rather than "What is the definitive answer?". I certainly read this forum question that way.

 

By asking peoples' opinions on whether they would count an earthcache as an FTF, they are seeking to establish criteria for counting FTFs.

 

I see nothing wrong with first understanding others' opinions on a subject before settling on your own opinion.

 

On that one we may just have to disagree.

 

To me it would depend on how they asked .

 

I don't see anything wrong with it either, assuming they were looking for just opinions (which leads us back to 'opinion or definitive answer').

[+Cedar Grove Seekers]

But why not? It seems to me you are suggesting that some things are not worth tracking or counting because people might disagree on the criteria. What if I want to track my own accomplishments using my own criteria? Why do you suggest I not do that?

 

The answer to your marble question above is 'I have 99 marbles', because I am using my own criteria to count my own marbles. I am also OK if you think I have a different number of marbles. But please don't suggest that I am wrong to even count my own marbles.

 

This forum is a good resource for those people who want to count their own FTFs (or marbles) to discuss the criteria they use.

No, what I am suggesting is that for someone to know what their number (or FTF, marbles or whatever) they must first know what that thing (FTF, marbles, or whatever) is. If they can't explain what a (whatever) is to themselves, they can't possiably count them.

 

LOL, your getting there . For the OP to come and say 'does this count' isn't of any help to them. If they want to count the, they must count them. How I would count, or you would count, or anyone else would count doesn't matter, hence the 'who cares'. I would think if the OP can't figure out if it counts or not, maybe they don't care either .

 

Yes it is a good place to discuss criteria. However, was this thread "what criteria do you use?" or was it "does this count?"

 

I read many forum questions as asking "What is your opinion?" rather than "What is the definitive answer?". I certainly read this forum question that way.

 

By asking peoples' opinions on whether they would count an earthcache as an FTF, they are seeking to establish criteria for counting FTFs.

 

I see nothing wrong with first understanding others' opinions on a subject before settling on your own opinion.

 

On that one we may just have to disagree.

 

To me it would depend on how they asked .

 

I don't see anything wrong with it either, assuming they were looking for just opinions (which leads us back to 'opinion or definitive answer').

 

I agree to disagree. I enjoyed the discussion.

[+joranda]

I'll second that.

[+welch]

I agree to disagree. I enjoyed the discussion.

ok then .