High security cache.

[+RottenWood]

I am planning to establish a new cache in the highest muggel density area of the world, Mumbai India. How can it be there are only 3 caches within 200 miles of what some consider the highest population city in the world? The three caches “nearby” require a full day journey each and none are big enough to hold travel bugs. This just will not do!

 

The key to success will be security. It will not be possible to rely on stealth. There are just too many muggels living on every speck of land. So, I’m thinking of hiding it in full view but making it muggel-proof.

 

The goal is to make a cache with bragging rights. It must be easy to find so any cachers who have the rare opportunity to look for a cache in Mumbai are not disappointed. It will also serve as a TB station so bugs can get a truly rare log.

 

Any suggestions on high security caches?

[+Sparrowhawk]

Hmmm... I understand that in India, the population WILL muggle a cache if they can and sell the contents. That is not to insult Indian people, just my conclusion from reading a thread here about why caches are hard to find and maintain in India. Apologies if I misunderstood.

 

However... what if I was correct? What if you need an ultimate muggle-proof cache?

Here's an idea:

 

Ingredients:

- some big bags of concrete

- 5 plywood boards, maybe 1/2 meter by 1/2 meter each or more, depending on how big you want your bragging rights to be

- Long, strong straps, nails, some boards and some hammers

- Wheelbarrow or some other very large container to mix concrete in

- BIG strong padlock

- two friends who have big muscles

- 1 pickup truck

- One of these (or similar) kind of waterproof outdoor boxes which is better than an ammo can because you can order one you can actually padlock:

...which can be found in these Google searches: Search 1, Search 2, Search 3

 

● You and your two strong friends load up all the ingredients into the pickup truck. Go to cache site.

● Use long, strong straps, nails, some boards and some hammers to create a box-shaped mold for the concrete out of the plywood. Set the box where you NEVER want to move it again and you know it.

● Mix concrete. Pour into concrete plywood mold.

● Get secure metal box and set it in the concrete, facing up. Let concrete harden around the box with nothing but the front door of the metal box showing.

● Fill box with geocaching goodies.

● Close door and padlock the box.

● Put something on top of the whole thing that hides the metal door. (Big flat rock? Trash can? Newspaper box? SOMEthing... depending on circumstances, it may be unnecessary... depends on the local muggles.)

● Post the new cache with the padlock combo as part of the cache name - or make it a puzzle to find the combo, depending on how secure you want it to be.

● Get praises from local geocachers for all the good work.

 

Hey, overkill is better than no kill at all in a muggle-dangerous place.

Edited November 2, 2007 by Sparrowhawk

[+StarBrand]

steel box

 

4" x 5' steel pole

 

500 pounds concrete

 

Welding supplies

 

.......

[CacheNCarryMA]

India's economy is intensely labor-driven.

 

Find a shopkeeper who will hold on to the cache for you. Make arrangements to pay him 100 rupees ($2.50) a month to only hand the cache over to people with GPSrs who can provide the proper password -- a Hindi word with eleven syllables or some humorous, memorable phrase should do. Maybe the cache could be placed on an out of reach shelf in the shop. The cache could be a multi, with a landmark (lamppost, mailbox) outside the shop as the first stage, with an offset to the final inside the store.

 

This will also avoid any objections the reviewer might raise regarding ongoing maintenance of the cache.

 

Use the money that you would have spent on concrete and building supplies to pay your cache caretaker.

 

I just checked the wiki entry for India. The median annual income is $820 in India.

Edited November 2, 2007 by CacheNCarryMA

[+Isonzo Karst]

I like CacheNCarryMA's response. Especially as you're going to need a local maintainer for the cache.

But you'll have to be careful with the write up, as a cache that requires that a cacher enter a shop and interact with the staff cannot be listed.

[CacheNCarryMA]

How about placing it at a 24-hour internet cafe in Mumbai?

[+RottenWood]

SparrowHawk,

 

You are exactly right. Nothing against the Indian people. But, it would be plundered immediately. Not because they are thieves (quite the contrary). But because 90% of the people are dirt poor and see something of value left apparently discarded. And, the shear density of people is hard for westerners to comprehend. There simply is no location (that I have found) where a hide would go undetected. And, if I did hide it that well, there would be a lot of DNFs.

 

I don’t want to see any DNFs posted for this cache. I know what it is like to get to someplace exotic and only have a few hours to devote to geocaching. Coming up empty handed is very disappointing.

 

I like the huge concrete safe idea. Close to an idea I have been hatching. If I find a construction sight with a willing foreman (a few Rupees helps), I might get the metal box encased in a bridge abutment or building. Now that’s permanent! The door could be disguised as an electrical panel with a big lock.

 

Perhaps I combine this with your idea. The construction sight I was thinking of could be great cover for building the concrete monolith you describe. The needed materials and strong backs could be siphoned off of the construction work (for a few Rupees).

 

CacheNCarryMA

Close to another thought I had. I was thinking of using the grounds of a Western hotel which usually means protected by security. But, the notion of having to find a specific shop in a bizarre is far more on the spirit of Geocaching adventure. How about the arrangement is that geocacher has to pay the sum of 50 Rupees (about a buck) to the shop owner for the box on the shelf with the Geocache label on it. That creates ongoing incentive to the shop owner. A box he can sell and keeps being put back on the shelf. Wonder if that would fly with the reviewer? Considering the difficulty of caches in India, they might give me a little latitude.

[CacheNCarryMA]

CacheNCarryMA

Close to another thought I had. I was thinking of using the grounds of a Western hotel which usually means protected by security. But, the notion of having to find a specific shop in a bizarre is far more on the spirit of Geocaching adventure. How about the arrangement is that geocacher has to pay the sum of 50 Rupees (about a buck) to the shop owner for the box on the shelf with the Geocache label on it. That creates ongoing incentive to the shop owner. A box he can sell and keeps being put back on the shelf. Wonder if that would fly with the reviewer? Considering the difficulty of caches in India, they might give me a little latitude.

 

As you proposed, I'm sure a reviewer would classify the cache as a "commercial" cache. As IK said, you'll need to word the description in such a way that the "admission fee" is optional. I know of caches that require fees, such as $10 for parking or $5 or more for museum entrance. 50 rupees is pretty small compared to those.

Edited November 2, 2007 by CacheNCarryMA

[CacheNCarryMA]

BTW, how often are you in Mumbai? All the time?

[+Renegade Knight]

...I like the huge concrete safe idea. Close to an idea I have been hatching. If I find a construction sight with a willing foreman (a few Rupees helps), I might get the metal box encased in a bridge abutment or building. Now that’s permanent! The door could be disguised as an electrical panel with a big lock....

 

I had a chance to inquire into something like this on a local pedestrian bridge. The only reason that I didn't was that I wasn't sure the answe would be "yes" once I got to the right people to ask.

 

It's one thing to get some construction workers to take care of the job. It's another thing to make sure that the cache that's going to remain for the life of the structure is going to remain with the blessing of the actual owners or people in charge.

 

That said, I do like the idea.

[+briansnat]

I'd say it would have to be a micro and very well camoflaged. There are some caches in downtown NYC. I'm sure the cache security issues are similar between NYC and Bombay. Most NYC caches require periodic replacement. You will have to be willing to do that frequently as there is no such thing as a "muggle proof" cache

[+briansnat]

BTW, not really a getting started issue. Moving to general forum

[CacheNCarryMA]

I like the huge concrete safe idea. Close to an idea I have been hatching. If I find a construction sight with a willing foreman (a few Rupees helps), I might get the metal box encased in a bridge abutment or building. Now that’s permanent! The door could be disguised as an electrical panel with a big lock.

 

Isn't that basically what happened to Jimmy Hoffa, when Giants Stadium was built?

[+RottenWood]

BTW, how often are you in Mumbai? All the time?

Business takes methere every 2 or 3 months. So I should be able to do minimum maintenance.

[+RottenWood]

Isn't that basically what happened to Jimmy Hoffa, when Giants Stadium was built?

 

Yea but, no one recorded his coordinates.

[+Gratefulldad]

Isn't there a place with lockers that you could put a lock on and either post the combination or make it a puzzle to solve for the combo?

[+Harry Dolphin]

[isn't that basically what happened to Jimmy Hoffa, when Giants Stadium was built?

 

Rumor is that he's under the finish line of the Meadowlands Race Track. If he's at Giants' Stadium, then he'll get muggled when they tear it down!

 

Not sure about a safe in a stanchion of a bridge. Caches under bridges tend not to get approved.

[+Isonzo Karst]

Since you're there every few months, why don't you place it without TBs initially (except perhaps your own) and see how it does? If you've got a good set-up, you'll be able to add TBs once you've verified that it's going to last.

[+vw_k]

I like the locker idea. Are there any lockers at a station or public building perhaps that could be leased long term? Then you could put a combination lock on it and cachers have to work out the code for the lock.

 

Have you thought about creating an earthcache in the area? I'm sure travellers to India would enjoy learning something about its geology.

[+RottenWood]

I like the locker idea. Are there any lockers at a station or public building perhaps that could be leased long term? Then you could put a combination lock on it and cachers have to work out the code for the lock.

 

Have you thought about creating an earthcache in the area? I'm sure travellers to India would enjoy learning something about its geology.

I agree the locker idea is appealing. Really easy. But, I have never seen a locker there. To be sure I have never looked. I’ll check with a friend there.

 

I don’t think there would be lockers at the train stations. The rail system in Mumbai is crazy. It handles 6 million passengers a day. There doesn’t seem like there would be room. The flow of bodies is really something to behold. It’s like Tokyo Station but without any order to it. They tried to install a security screening system in a main station while I was there earlier this year. It was literally swept away by the tide of people. Almost comical. Someone trying to open a locker would be trampled immediately.

 

The airport is probably out because both the international and domestic terminal require a ticket to enter the building. And, the guys with the automatic weapons might frown on hiding packages. I dealt with that at a cache near Narita airport once and I do not wish the muggel police on anyone. Believe me, they don’t have a sense of humor.

 

Let’s see what my Mumbai friend says.

 

Keith

[+genegene]

Rottenwood I have the best cache Idea, if they have them and it would work in NYC as well. I don't know if it would work by having TB's in it though but it involves magnets and the news. shoot me a e-mail and we will talk there. The only reason for this is to not let any one else know of this great idea. I might try it in my neck of the world. now I'm going to keep my eyes open for this.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

SparrowHawk,

 

You are exactly right. Nothing against the Indian people. But, it would be plundered immediately. Not because they are thieves (quite the contrary). But because 90% of the people are dirt poor and see something of value left apparently discarded. And, the shear density of people is hard for westerners to comprehend. There simply is no location (that I have found) where a hide would go undetected. And, if I did hide it that well, there would be a lot of DNFs.

 

I don’t want to see any DNFs posted for this cache. I know what it is like to get to someplace exotic and only have a few hours to devote to geocaching. Coming up empty handed is very disappointing.

 

I like the huge concrete safe idea. Close to an idea I have been hatching. If I find a construction sight with a willing foreman (a few Rupees helps), I might get the metal box encased in a bridge abutment or building. Now that’s permanent! The door could be disguised as an electrical panel with a big lock.

 

Perhaps I combine this with your idea. The construction sight I was thinking of could be great cover for building the concrete monolith you describe. The needed materials and strong backs could be siphoned off of the construction work (for a few Rupees).

 

CacheNCarryMA

Close to another thought I had. I was thinking of using the grounds of a Western hotel which usually means protected by security. But, the notion of having to find a specific shop in a bizarre is far more on the spirit of Geocaching adventure. How about the arrangement is that geocacher has to pay the sum of 50 Rupees (about a buck) to the shop owner for the box on the shelf with the Geocache label on it. That creates ongoing incentive to the shop owner. A box he can sell and keeps being put back on the shelf. Wonder if that would fly with the reviewer? Considering the difficulty of caches in India, they might give me a little latitude.

Having spent quite a bit of time in southern India (Chennai, Chengalpet, etc.), I can testify to the incredible poverty and the scarcity of even commonplace items such as empty plastic cups or cheap kitchen containers. People scavenge such items in a second, and not to sell them, but to use and reuse them hundreds of times. I found that even hiding a cache in a storm drain pipe or in an open sewer lagoon was ineffective, as there are always eyes watching you, and as soon as someone visits the cache hide site and then leaves the area, a dozen people will converge on that spot (yes, even in the center of a sewage lagoon), find the container and take it.

[+~Hylife~]

Isn't that basically what happened to Jimmy Hoffa, when Giants Stadium was built?

 

Yea but, no one recorded his coordinates.

 

NOT TRUE!!

 

"Find Jimmy Hoffa!"

 

Edited November 10, 2007 by ~Hylife~

[knowschad]

I can testify to the incredible poverty and the scarcity of even commonplace items such as empty plastic cups or cheap kitchen containers

 

So, using Lock 'N Locks over Gladware is a good idea?

[knowschad]

I am planning to establish a new cache in the highest muggel density area of the world, Mumbai India.

Any suggestions on high security caches?

 

Would it help if you camoflaged the cache to look like this?

Edited November 10, 2007 by knowschad

[+Sileny Jizda]

My suggestion exactly, use a cow.

[+sgtbill572]

I cache in NYC with a high muggle factor, mostly micro sized for hiding. If you want a secure size for TB you might want to make it look like an electical box with a lock. Bolt it to a strong pole or wall. Use a combonation lock with the combo on the site. If it looks official people won't mess with it.

[+MickEMT]

How about creating an earthcache there? Pretty hard to muggle one of those, no maintenance.......

[+olbluesguy]

I once loaned a backpack, and frame to a friend who was doing a photo gig in India. She Sold the Aluminum pack frame and lived for three months off the money.

It must be a micro or it will disappear.

I have a plain sight micro in a small rest area that is maintained by prisoners from a nearby prison.

Every time they come to cut the grass a team of guards goes over the place looking for contraband.

They haven't found it yet. LOL