Hold your breath! Leak testing as I type!

[Influence Waterfowl Calls]

I have placed lead into some containers and sank them in my pool to see if they leak!

 

Test #1 is two sizes of the round lock n lock containers

Test #2 is a peanut butter jar

Test #3 is the plastic container that Countrytime Lemonaid comes in

Test #4 is a skoal can I found while caching

Test #5 is a Fuiji Film container (the see through kind)

Test #6 is a Kodak film container (black with gray lid)

 

I think the lock n locks should fair nicely but not sure about the rest!

 

I will report the findings when finished!

There may be a need to do a long term test on any that do not have a leak.

 

Feel free to list any other containers that you think need to be tested and I will if I have one of them!

Edited July 28, 2007 by Influence Waterfowl Calls

[+The Leprechauns]

So we get to come over, swim in your pool, and log six smileys?

 

That totally rocks.

[Mushtang]

So we get to come over, swim in your pool, and log six smileys?

 

That totally rocks.

As long as you don't leak in the pool.

[+The Leprechauns]

A bit more on topic, I wanted to talk about a container I'm reminded of because you included a "Skoal tin" in your test. Now, I have no plans to use a Skoal tin, but I've had great success with the round Altoids tins. (NOT the rectangular altoids with the hinge, which leak.)

 

Spraypainted with rustproofing paint, just enough thickness is added to the round tin that it becomes pretty difficult to pop open the lid. I have one such hide that regularly survives floods on the Allegheny River.

 

So, I'd be curious to hear how the Skoal tin does, and please toss in a round Altoids tin if you've got one.

[+Team FIREBOY]

Could you test a one liter coke bottle? Wondering if the screw on lid will hold up.

[Influence Waterfowl Calls]

No altoids tin right now!

 

As for the six smileys! I might note that my pool is not big enough to keep them all 528 feet apart!

 

How many pool guys would you have to hire to clean that thing anyhow? I shure would not want to do it! HA HA HA!!!!!

[+StarBrand]

Could you test a one liter coke bottle? Wondering if the screw on lid will hold up.

The plastic degrades with exposure to UV rays in sunlight. Might last short term but not long term.

 

(BTW - how much rain has fallen in Cheyenne? is my Flood Prone cache gonna need checking??)

[Influence Waterfowl Calls]

On the coke bottle! If the coke wont get out the water wont get in! Unless you chucked a mentos in before you capped it but then again you would not get it capped!

[+Team FIREBOY]

Coke will leak out if lid not on tight enough after breaking the original seal. Was going to camo paint the bottle, will the sun still degrade it?

 

Off topic, we have been under flood watches for the past 3 days Starbrand. Have had some real gully washers. You might want to check your caches if you have them near hear, there has been flooding, but water was gone down within one hour of rain. It has been raining all day today.

[+Team FIREBOY]

StarBrand... I though you lived in a desert. LOL

[+Knight2000]

I have found a skoal tin. I vote against them.

 

Thank you for testing for us. Please mention the depth at which they were tested also.

 

I have had reservations on the round lock n locks. If you look at their lids where they seal they are a little wavy. I have wondered how well they seal.

 

I am guessing in the test you did all the others will leak in one way or another. But i am very curious how the round lock n locks faired...

 

Thanks for sharing!

 

Coke bottle? The hole is so tiny. How would you get stuff in and out of it?

[+Team FIREBOY]

1 liter coke bottle has about a 1 3/4 inch opening. Was just THINKING about using one, have not done any yet.

 

StarBrand, I remember that cache now.. it is probably safe, being it's far enough away from the bank of the creek. I could go and check it tomorrow for you if you would like.

[+beezerb]

Are they done yet?

[+J-Way]

Hmmm... someone should start a betting pool!

 

Here are my picks:

Test #1, Round Lock n Lock: No Leaks (Never used the round ones, but the rectangular ones work well)

Test #2, PB jar: No Leaks in your test, assuming you took extra care to make sure it was closed properly. But seal depends on future cachers correctly securing the lid (tight, no cross-threading, etc.). I wouldn't rely on it.

Test #3, Plastic Lemonaid container: I think I know what this is, and I believe it will Leak. Also it's made from weak plastic that will eventually crack.

Test #4 Skoal can: Will Leak like a sieve. Even if it doesn't leak in your test, it's made from weak plastic that will eventually crack.

Test #5 Fuiji Film container: Will Leak, but not as bad as the Kodak container

Test #6 Kodak film container:Will Leak like a sieve

 

And even if the items don't leak after 24 hours, you should go out every day to give them real-world tests. Retrieve them, remove a fake log, unfold then refold it, replace the log, re-seal, then re-sink. Don't be overly gentle, treat it like the average geocacher would treat a cache while sitting beside some water somewhere wet and maybe cold. Yes, I know an underwater cache won't be found every day, but you could get a feel for how they hold up over months/years of real-world abuse.

 

It's hard to find a readily available, every-day type of container that will hold up to prolonged submersion plus abuse. While they cost a little more, I recommend something like a S3 1000 Waterproof Case, which would be considered a "small" container. Pay attention to the "Waterproof Rating System" at that site. I'd also recommend putting a Desiccant Pack or two in the container to absorb any incidental drops of water.

 

[Edit: darn spelling mistakes...]

Edited July 28, 2007 by J-Way

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

If you are looking for truly waterproof containers that will also resist heavy physical abuse such as that encountered in flood conditions, and that will even resist most smaller wild animals, urine, body fluids from the decaying bodies of dead animals or humans, I strongly recommend using ONLY waterproof containers such as Otterboxes, Pelican boxes, and similar brands, including those listed on the site linked by J-Way in a post above. I use such waterproof cases for many of our Psycho Urban Caches, and they are truly tough. Many are rated for full-time immersion in 90 feet of water for years on end, with attendant physical abuse as well.

[Influence Waterfowl Calls]

Overnight test complete!

 

Test #1 is two sizes of the round lock n lock containers

PASSED! No leaks at all

Test #2 is a peanut butter jar

FAILED! Only about a tablespoon of water inside (the cardboard seal in the top was gone when chucked into the pool but I think it would have saturated and failed as well

Test #3 is the plastic container that Countrytime Lemonaid comes in

FAILED! Only about a tablespoon of water inside

Test #4 is a skoal can I found while caching

FAILED! Only about a tablespoon of water inside

Test #5 is a Fuiji Film container (the see through kind)

PASSED! No leaks at all

Test #6 is a Kodak film container (black with gray lid)

FAILED! Only about 1/8 teaspoon of water inside

 

I rechucked the passing containers into the pool and will keep testing!

 

What do you think about the small amounts of water in the failing containers?

Are they good enough for above water conditions?

[+J-Way]

Only got 4 out of six... bummer. Are you sure that Fuji container didn't leak?

 

I just remembered that my wife got the perfect small/micro sized underwater container as a gift from her company (one of those "thanks for the good year" thingies). It was a beach-kit themed gift pack, and it included a key/coin/jewelry holder. Picture a bright blue over-sized bison tube (about 6" long, 1.5" diameter). It's made from heavy plastic and has a screw-on top with an O-ring seal. It even came with a lanyard, but I'll probably upgrade to something more rot-resistant... maybe a light stainess chain linked to a steel weight of some kind. Weight sinks to the bottom, container floats a few inches above.

 

I'll try and remember to figure out who manufacturered it when I get home... a quick web search just now went nowhere.

 

As to your question, yes, a tablespoon of water is too much. Any moisture will cause the contents to mildew over time resulting in spotchy paper, rotten pencils, and a rather foul smell upon opening. Unless maybe synthetic paper is mildew-resistant.

[Rupert2]

At what depth are you testing these? Head pressue should not be ingnored.

[lewis82]

Anyways....

 

Yes, some containers did leak. But they leak under extreme conditions. Will your average Lock'n lock be submerged under 8 feet of water (even 1 foot is unlikely)? If yes, use an ammo can.

 

So I would use this test, I would rely on it, but if a container leaked just a little, I could decide to use it anyway. Because rain has not as much pressure as a foot of water.

Edited July 29, 2007 by lewis82

[+Moore9KSUcats]

 

I just remembered that my wife got the perfect small/micro sized underwater container as a gift from her company (one of those "thanks for the good year" thingies). It was a beach-kit themed gift pack, and it included a key/coin/jewelry holder. Picture a bright blue over-sized bison tube (about 6" long, 1.5" diameter). It's made from heavy plastic and has a screw-on top with an O-ring seal. It even came with a lanyard, but I'll probably upgrade to something more rot-resistant... maybe a light stainess chain linked to a steel weight of some kind. Weight sinks to the bottom, container floats a few inches above.

 

I'll try and remember to figure out who manufacturered it when I get home... a quick web search just now went nowhere.

 

 

https://www.nautilusbroadband.com/secureweb...ry.asp?catid=30

 

We've gotten these in the past... haven't had one for a long time. Schlitterbahn says they are "98% leakproof" so be careful.

[Mushtang]

At what depth are you testing these? Head pressue should not be ingnored.

At any depth I'm sure this test is a MUCH higher head pressure than a container will experience due to rain or dew.

 

These tests are for caches meant to be placed underwater right? Otherwise I'm not sure if they'll give an accurate result as to how dry these containers would be sitting in the woods under a pile of sticks, or stuck under a lamp post skirt.

[+Difranco]

Of the Lock 'N' Locks I've found around here on the cache hunts I haven't been real impressed. Most of those I find seems that the logbooks become damp for some reason. The containers seemed to be in fine condition and properly closed. So I was surprised that it didnt leak.

[+sweetlife]

what about testing the good ole standby Ammo Can???

[Influence Waterfowl Calls]

My pool is around 7'6" deep... Unless you leave the hose on over night and it fills to the top! OOPS!

 

I don't have an ammo box at this time!

 

Yes this test will be usefull for an under water cache but it is also an extream test for the regular old box under rocks!

 

I think most of the containers would be fine in the rain and normal conditions. Some are better than others but some are cheaper than the others.

 

About the under water thing... I think I have that all figured out but I want to test, place, and wait for the first to find before letting the cat out of the bag. Heck I might ant to see how many of you will buy one from me on ebay too. HE! HE! HE! I will say that I think everyone is over thinking the under water cache idea. My idea is simple and sometimes simple is the best way to go!

[Mag Magician]

Having been a divemaster for years, I would like to make a suggestion or two here.

#1, when testing, ensure that the temperature of the air in the container is warmer than the water in which it will be immersed. The additional contraction inside the container will pull in as it cools and further verify your test.

#2, Test in a small container of water so only the lid or access is immersed, and allow the container to be heated and cooled by the varying sun conditions.

 

Many caches fail because of being exposed to rain, and having the heating and cooling of the subsequent sun cause pressure differentials

[Influence Waterfowl Calls]

I took the last three out today while swiming with the kids. All three were still dry inside! I know I will be switching over to the fuji for my micro caches!

Edited July 31, 2007 by Influence Waterfowl Calls

[+beezerb]

Thanks IWC for doing the testing. We will keep the PB jars for other uses.

As for ammo can testing this cache - http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LU...7d-1bee8901af50 - should stand as a test for them.

[+Knight2000]

Thanks for sharing!

 

Sure it is extreme testing like that but it gives us all an idea about how a container might work.

 

Example: I think a regular film can or dollar store container is fine if in the right place. (completely covered from the elements and protected.)

 

Whether or not the test is the best or even necessary doesn't matter to me. I would rather go find your cache where you cared enough to test it rather than just go find your cache where you put camo tape on an old bottle and chucked in a bush.

[Dinoprophet]

Interesting results.

 

Simulating rain and flowing water would be useful tests as well, more like what a typical cache would experience. I would also try laying the container in several different positions during the test, as well as opening and closing it at least once a day.

[+briansnat]

Overnight test complete!

 

Test #1 is two sizes of the round lock n lock containers

PASSED! No leaks at all

Test #2 is a peanut butter jar

FAILED! Only about a tablespoon of water inside (the cardboard seal in the top was gone when chucked into the pool but I think it would have saturated and failed as well

Test #3 is the plastic container that Countrytime Lemonaid comes in

FAILED! Only about a tablespoon of water inside

Test #4 is a skoal can I found while caching

FAILED! Only about a tablespoon of water inside

Test #5 is a Fuiji Film container (the see through kind)

PASSED! No leaks at all

Test #6 is a Kodak film container (black with gray lid)

FAILED! Only about 1/8 teaspoon of water inside

 

I rechucked the passing containers into the pool and will keep testing!

 

What do you think about the small amounts of water in the failing containers?

Are they good enough for above water conditions?

 

 

I think these tests closely mirror what you will see with these cache containers in the wild. The ones that failed your test have also failed often in the real world. I've rarely found a Kodak film canister cache that was dry inside. Same for containers that are similar to your lemonade container. They are nearly always wet inside.

[+Jhwk]

So we get to come over, swim in your pool, and log six smileys?

 

That totally rocks.

Welcome to our OOL

 

you will notice there is no P in it.

 

Let's keep it that way.

[Clan Riffster]

I've also done leak testing on assorted containers, and noticed a data anomaly. Certain containers which I often find in the wild with moisture in them, survived a full week of immersion without a drop coming in. I've tried to come up with a reasonable explanation for this, but the best I could think of was, maybe the equal pressure around the container actually helped create a tighter seal by squeezing the lid against the container? Maybe? My goal at the time was to disprove the oft touted axiom, "If it holds liquid in, it'll keep liquid out". My experience in the wild with containers designed to hold and/or transport liquids proves this axiom to be false, yet my leak testing seemed to support the theory. Weird, huh? It's almost as if water vapor/humidity has an easier time entering cache containers than regular water.

[+Team LaLonde]

Picture a bright blue over-sized bison tube (about 6" long, 1.5" diameter).

 

Are you sure that was a key holder?

 

Seriously, I got one of those things, too - BRIGHT yellow. Covered it in camo duct tape and used it for swag. It seemed to be a good container that you could hang behind a waterfall.

[+Vinny & Sue Team]

I've also done leak testing on assorted containers, and noticed a data anomaly. Certain containers which I often find in the wild with moisture in them, survived a full week of immersion without a drop coming in. I've tried to come up with a reasonable explanation for this, but the best I could think of was, maybe the equal pressure around the container actually helped create a tighter seal by squeezing the lid against the container? Maybe? My goal at the time was to disprove the oft touted axiom, "If it holds liquid in, it'll keep liquid out". My experience in the wild with containers designed to hold and/or transport liquids proves this axiom to be false, yet my leak testing seemed to support the theory. Weird, huh? It's almost as if water vapor/humidity has an easier time entering cache containers than regular water.

Yes, it is entirely true that the water pressure from immersion would have placed significant pressure upon seals such as O-rings and gaskets, thus improving the seal. And, it is my experience as well that containers (particularly plastic containers) which survive complete immersion well seem to easily allow moisture to enter when placed in a damp environment (such as a hide on the shore of a lake; we have one such hide), and I am sure that it is due to two things: water vapor passing through plastic walls and changes in ambient outdoor air pressure which may drive small amounts of moisture-laden air through the seals into the container on a regular basis. And, of course, there are always the cachers who open the container during a massive rainstorm, allowing water to enter...

[+Team GeoBlast]

Could you test a one liter coke bottle? Wondering if the screw on lid will hold up.

 

Let's see... it keeps the liter of coke in. Make sense that it would be water proof...right? One small problem is that you can't get anything -in- a liter of coke bottle besides liquid and a straw. What are going to use for swag?

[+Team GeoBlast]

I've also done leak testing on assorted containers, and noticed a data anomaly. Certain containers which I often find in the wild with moisture in them, survived a full week of immersion without a drop coming in. I've tried to come up with a reasonable explanation for this, but the best I could think of was, maybe the equal pressure around the container actually helped create a tighter seal by squeezing the lid against the container? Maybe? My goal at the time was to disprove the oft touted axiom, "If it holds liquid in, it'll keep liquid out". My experience in the wild with containers designed to hold and/or transport liquids proves this axiom to be false, yet my leak testing seemed to support the theory. Weird, huh? It's almost as if water vapor/humidity has an easier time entering cache containers than regular water.

 

Don't forget the human element here.. leaving the box open in the pouring rain while signing log. Happens all the time over here.

[+J-Way]

I just remembered that my wife got the perfect small/micro sized underwater container as a gift from her company (one of those "thanks for the good year" thingies). It was a beach-kit themed gift pack, and it included a key/coin/jewelry holder. Picture a bright blue over-sized bison tube (about 6" long, 1.5" diameter). It's made from heavy plastic and has a screw-on top with an O-ring seal. It even came with a lanyard, but I'll probably upgrade to something more rot-resistant... maybe a light stainess chain linked to a steel weight of some kind. Weight sinks to the bottom, container floats a few inches above.

https://www.nautilusbroadband.com/secureweb...ry.asp?catid=30

We've gotten these in the past... haven't had one for a long time. Schlitterbahn says they are "98% leakproof" so be careful.

That looks very similar. 98%, huh? Looks like I also need to do some testing, or maybe add some supplemental leakproofing.

[+Corp Of Discovery]

A pop bottle is a great cache container- if you use them before they're formed into the bottle...

 

[+La Perouse]

To make an underwater cache, I used a small chinese made metal "thermos" flask bought from chinese dimestore. Worked perfectly - no leakage - and was submerged regularly under 3ft at high tide.

[Influence Waterfowl Calls]

I have built a small version of an underwater cache that I have planned for a lake near by. I chucked it into the pool and it worked great! I will suprise you with what the container is made of...

 

2 peanutbutter jars

1 film cannister

1 nut (for a bolt)

1 hd magnet

some wire

and some lead!

 

I would say more but I will wait till I place it and atleast get its ftf.

 

As the say...

 

Post it and they will see it.

 

Just saying I am planning an underwater cache is too much really!

[+Team FIREBOY]

Could you test a one liter coke bottle? Wondering if the screw on lid will hold up.

 

Let's see... it keeps the liter of coke in. Make sense that it would be water proof...right? One small problem is that you can't get anything -in- a liter of coke bottle besides liquid and a straw. What are going to use for swag?

 

No swag, using as a redirector, with coke bottle under water. Thinking about taking the label off, placing some fishing sinkers and the laminated redirector coords inside, sealing the bottle somehow permanently attaching a rope of some type and the chucking the whole thing into a small lake. Probably won't do it though because in the winter (very long season here) it would be frozen under the water and thus making it a bad cache hide. See, I talked myself right out of that idea... but you can really put stuff in a 1 liter soda bottle. Little stuff.

[Influence Waterfowl Calls]

Who cares if it ices up!!! Just mention it in the listing and sugest that it not be done in the winter! Other wise you could make it float in the winter where the top would be above the ice.