Adopting Archived Caches

[+IGJoe]

Can an archived cache be adopted assuming it wasn't archived because it violated placement rules?

 

More specifically, the Project APE cache here in Georgia went missing back in 2003 and was presumably archived for that reason. If I was willing to place a new container (similar to the original) at the same co-ordinates could this cache live on?

 

I'd like to hear from everyone but I'm particularly interested in the opinion of moderators, cache reviewers and members of the more inner circle of caching clik. I realize I could email my local reviewer but I thought I would throw it out here in the open discussion instead of jamming the personal inbox of a committed, hardworking and dedicated volunteer

[+George1]

I just asked the same question to my reviewer. I could not adopt the archived cache but he told me to work up a new cache to place there. ( The original owner has disappeared )

 

Just what I have learned. Hope this helps.

[+welch]

Generally I think when a cache is archived its no longer there... so there'd really be nothing for you to adopt, right??

[+wimseyguy]

Like welch said-there's nothing there to adopt. You could hide a new listing there and call it Son of Ape, or Ape Remembered, or something like that. I really doubt that TPTB will assign the cool APE icon to yours though. That was a one time thing AFAIK.

[+palmetto]

Reviewer here, in short, no, caches cannot be unarchived to adoption.

[+Jhwk]

I would put this under the heading of "Cache Restoration" rather than adoption. I think the community at large would support something like this, but TPTB have the last say. Give it a shot! If you do, I'll come and visit.

 

Not sure if I belong to the "members of the more inner circle of caching clik"

 

probably more like "The Peanut Gallery"

[+IGJoe]

Generally I think when a cache is archived its no longer there... so there'd really be nothing for you to adopt, right??

 

Initially I thought the same thing but the guidelines mention there is an appeal process if your cache gets archived. I took that to mean an archival can be reversed. At the same time several project APE caches were adopted by other cachers when the Project APE promo ended. Lastly, people replace muggled caches all the time. Since the pieces of this puzzle are not unprecedented I wonder if they can all be put together to bring a historic cache back to life.

[+nikcap]

Interesting question. I currently find myself in a similar situation. A ex-local recently split town and forward me adoption request for his caches. However, he archived the before the adoption went through.

The physical caches are still there and currently, I guess, are Geotrash if I don't go out and pick them up, that is, if they don't get un-archived.

Its been a couple days since I've contacted my local reviewer about this, but I haven't heard a yes or no on it. I guess there's a some discussion about it.

[+IV_Warrior]

Generally I think when a cache is archived its no longer there... so there'd really be nothing for you to adopt, right??

 

Initially I thought the same thing but the guidelines mention there is an appeal process if your cache gets archived. I took that to mean an archival can be reversed.

Yes, when your cache gets archived. As in one you either already own, or a new submission of your own.

At the same time several project APE caches were adopted by other cachers when the Project APE promo ended.

Yes, but those were still active caches with the original containers still intact. Here is an example of an Ape cache where the original cache went missing. Notice it lost the APE icon. I doubt that TPTB would un-archive a missing APE cache unless the original container was located.

 

Lastly, people replace muggled caches all the time. Since the pieces of this puzzle are not unprecedented I wonder if they can all be put together to bring a historic cache back to life.

 

While 'all the pieces' of the puzzle may exist, to the best of my knowledge, they've never been assembled in the fashion you wish. Most likely, your best bet is to simply place a new cache in the original location and make mention on the cache page of the history of the spot and link to the original APE cache page.

[+Markwell]

The three remaining US Project APE caches were adopted by the people that placed them.

 

Here's a thread quite a while ago as to what makes a Project APE cache still a Project APE. There was an official-sh response from Jeremy.

Edited July 24, 2006 by Markwell

[+erik88l-r]

I remember that APE cache well. I raced to be FTF but five people beat me to it. I still remember the huge ammo can and the nifty Planet of the Apes trading card that I got.

 

One concern is the location. It's behind a church, and debatedly on church property. Much of the property surrounding this is administered by the National Park Service, and they have recently confiscated caches not on NPS property but along a river shoreline zone they claim as in their jurisdiction. As a cache reviewer I would not feel comfortable publishing a cache here without assurance that the location is ok.

 

Given the fact that there is nothing to adopt I'd suggest finding a safer location and hiding a cache with a similar theme instead of trying to resurrect this historic cache.

 

~erik~

[+IGJoe]

I'd say that about settles it ....... now lets derail this puppy

 

<Insert angsty reply about not getting my way>

[+briansnat]

The physical caches are still there and currently, I guess, are Geotrash if I don't go out and pick them up, that is, if they don't get un-archived.

 

You can always submit a new page for them and toss in a new logbook. Maybe re-work them by adding a puzzle or a stage to make it a multi.

 

Or have the current owner request that they be unarchived, then he can transfer them to you.

Edited July 24, 2006 by briansnat

[Luckless]

I adopted an archived cache from the owner. The owner lived pretty far away and didn't get back to check on it so it was archived by the reviewer. Wrote the owner and told him I'd like to adopt it. Then the reviewer had to approve it. Same cache site, same write up.

[wandering360]

I would assume that he was asking because he wants to restore the "Project Ape" icon to his area. It is a rare icon to get along with the "Earth" icon.

[+nikcap]

You can always submit a new page for them and toss in a new logbook. Maybe re-work them by adding a puzzle or a stage to make it a multi.

 

Actually, they are already puzzle caches. Submitting a new cache page is easy, however, then this will result in the previous finders getting another find log and smiley on a cache they already found. I could careless about that, but I'm sure I'll hear from the purest on this.

 

Or have the current owner request that they be unarchived, then he can transfer them to you.

 

Actually, he already sent me the adoption request, so technically, I guess I'm the owner now. Hmmmm.

Perhaps I should be patient with my un-archive request.

How long does that process take?

[+palmetto]

ekitt10, I looked at your profile and sure enough those archived caches are now yours. Hm, I'd guess the issue is what the original owner really intended? If I were reviewing in your area I'd want to hear from him about it before unarchiving, I think. Odd that he'd both transfer and archive. Maybe he thought once they were yours his "ownership" had to be archived? Anyway, get with your local reviewer and the maybe get the original owner involved again.

[ParentsofSAM]

Bummer about the Georgia APE cache.....I need that icon.

 

Well my road trip to get one will just have to be a bit father......

[+IGJoe]

Bummer about the Georgia APE cache.....I need that icon.

 

Well my road trip to get one will just have to be a bit father......

 

My thoughts as well. I'll be in Indiana next month. The APE cache in Illinios is a 6 hr round trip from there. The question is: Do I want it that bad to blow off half a day while there? Why not, I'd spend much more than that establishing and maintaining a replacement cache had it been allowed.

[+Corp Of Discovery]

I've seen an archived cache get adopted. So, yes, it can happen.

[Keystone]

I'd like to point out the Post in the FAQ Thread about adoptions. Written in March due to the growing popularity of voluntary adoptions, this FAQ was then updated in May to align with Groundspeak's current instructions to the volunteer cache reviewers. Note in the second sentence where it says that archived or missing caches are not covered by the procedure for non-consensual adoptions. Reviewers have been instructed not to process non-consensual adoptions of archived caches.

 

I would rely upon the current adoption guidelines vs. any experience prior to the clarifications issued in May.

[+Corp Of Discovery]

Here's the part Keystone links to in full:

 

How do I Adopt Ownership of a Geocache?

 

Occasionally, the owner of a cache is unable to maintain it any longer. If the cache is still out there (i.e., not missing or archived), it can be preserved by transferring ownership to someone else who is in a better position to maintain it. There are two ways to adopt a cache listing: consensual and non-consensual. Voluntary adoptions are strongly preferred, since ownership is being taken away from the original hider of the cache. Non-consensual adoptions are reserved for rare cases where it makes good sense to preserve the existing listing, and where the cache owner is no longer active.

 

Here are the instructions for a voluntary, consensual adoption:

 

Go to the do-it-yourself adoption tool found at http://www.geocaching.com/adopt

 

The existing owner goes there first, fills in the GC number of his cache, and the new owner's account name as the transferee. The new owner will then receive an e-mail notice. The new owner then goes to the same page, enters the GC number and accepts the transfer. Note: The same adoption tool works for travel bugs and trackable geocoins, too! For coin and bug adoptions, use the public TB number, not the coin or bug tracking number found on the coin or metal tag.

 

For a nonconsensual adoption:

 

1. The interested potential owner must make a concerted effort to contact the original owner to try and arrange for a consensual adoption. Send e-mails and leave a note on the cache page.

 

2. If the owner is missing in action and doesn't respond to voluntary adoption inquiries, contact your volunteer cache reviewer and summarize what you've done to try and contact the owner, and why you want to adopt the cache.

 

3. The volunteer cache reviewer will determine whether adoption is appropriate and, if so, he or she will make a further effort to contact the owner. Note that grandfathered cache types cannot be adopted through this procedure. This includes virtual caches, moving caches, webcam caches and earthcaches.

 

4. If there is still no response, after four weeks the volunteer cache reviewer may recommend to Groundspeak that the abandoned cache's ownership be transferred to the interested new owner. I say "may" because the reviewer might also recommend archival of the original cache, so that the interested geocacher can hide a new one. For example, if the owner of the original cache is still active on the site, but not responding to inquiries about the cache, then archival is the proper answer.

 

After any adoption is processed:

 

The new owner should promptly perform any needed maintenance, and post a note to the cache page. The new owner can also edit the cache page, such as reflecting their account as the new owner. But every effort should be made to preserve the original character of the cache, and to give credit to the original hider. Do not use adoption just to "poach the spot" so that you can hide a totally different cache in the same area.

 

I've highlighted a part in bold. That seems to indicate that any archived cache can't be adopted- whether consensual or not. The cache I know of was adopted after May, 2006 btw. It may have been consensual.

[+Planet]

I adopted an Ape cache with Ttepee, from Jeremy on 1/11/03 after it went missing and before it was archived. This was way before they had their own icon. Since the original waist high container was gone, the cool log book was gone, and I didn't know and I edited the page to show it was adopted and a different container in place, when icons came around for them it was not given the Ape icon. They added Ape graphics to the page, but it is no longer considered an Ape cache. But some log it as though it were one.

[+nikcap]

Occasionally, the owner of a cache is unable to maintain it any longer. If the cache is still out there (i.e., not missing or archived), it can be preserved by transferring ownership to someone else who is in a better position to maintain it.

 

I read this as implying that a archived cache page means the physical field cache is missing. However, in my case this is not true. Also, if this was the rule, it would be nice for tptb to disable the ability to transfer ownership of archived caches. They have already disabled the ability to edit an archived cache page, so disabling the transfer of ownership is even more important, especially if that action is against the rules.