Dogs And Byways

[Team Pike]

hi guys just wondered if someone could clear this up for me?

 

Went to do a cache today and took the dog with me. cache happens to be along a byway. When I got to the gate i noticed a laminated, computer typed, small sign nailed to the gate, saying no dogs, motorbikes or horses.

 

Can this be correct? I thought byways were public rights of way and that means I should be able to walk my dog on it, as long as it's on a lead?

 

Is this worth pointing out to the council as its part of their cycle network?

 

Many thanks for any advice

[Dave from Glanton]

I believe that a byway is theoretically open to all traffic (I say "theoretically" because I've walked along some that were so muddy and chewed up they would be unpassable to most vehicles). However, I'm no expert, so feel free to ocrrect me.

I could be wrong, but a computer printed, laminated sign sounds like to me like somebody living nearby doesn't want too much traffic going past.

Certainly, I wouldn;t see anything wrong with yuo taking your pooch, provided you kept him/her under control on the end of a lead.

[Team Pike]

Thanks for the reply

I thought the same and apparently this byway is only a metre wide in places so no car is going to fit! Just annoyed me that someone was trying to stop people's access.

[+slimey]

This website might help:

 

http://www.ramblers.org.uk/INFO/publicatio...ountryside.html

 

According to that website, if it really is a byway, you have a right to take a dog with you.

 

Simon

[+BareClawz]

We often cache with our little friend and recently in South Dorset I walked past a Bridleway sign heading towards a cache and soon came across a sign that quite clearly stated PRIVE WOODS KEEP OUT. Just past that was a National Trust sign. This was on a path quite clearly marked on the OS map as a footpath. It seems somebody is trying to frighten people away.

But in answer to your question about dogs a little research discovered this;

9. Dogs have been taken on highways since time immemorial, and it seems likely that, if ever challenged in the courts, they would be considered a ‘usual accompaniment’ and hence permissible on footpaths. There is no law specifying that they must be kept on a lead, but local authorities can make an order under section 27 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 to introduce this as a requirement on designated highways. Additionally, the dog must be allowed to walk only along the line of the path. An act of trespass may be committed against the land holder if it wanders too far away from the official route.

 

This snippet came from the Ramblers Association- Footpaths site

http://www.ramblers.org.uk/footpaths/law/crwa2000.html

[+scaw]

The other thing could be to do with lambing season.........just a thought

[Team Pike]

it really is a byway even signposted as one so i will go back another day with the dog. thanks guys

[+Brenin Tegeingl]

Have a look at Resorces for UK cachers which is hosted by one of our reviewers. You'll find Rights of Ways and the Countryside and Rights of Way(CROW Act) which gives a basic view of your rights of access, including a section on Dogs.

 

Dave

[+The Northumbrian]

This was on a path quite clearly marked on the OS map as a footpath. It seems somebody is trying to frighten people away.

 

All O.S maps have a statement on them that reads "The representation on this map of any road,track or path

is no evidence of the existence of a public right of way"

 

Nige

[+MartyBartfast]

 

All O.S maps have a statement on them that reads "The representation on this map of any road,track or path

is no evidence of the existence of a public right of way"

 

Nige

 

Not quite, there is a section showing the key to rights of way, i.e. footpaths, bridleways, BOATs and RUPPs. After this there's a sentence saying

 

"The representation on this map of any other road,track or path

is no evidence of the existence of a public right of way"

(at least this is what's on my 1:25,000 OS Explorer.

 

i.e. if it isn't one of the above types of path then it _might not_ be a right of way, but if it's shown as one of the green paths then it is a right of way.

 

Of course they add a caveat that rights of way can change and you need to check with the local authority.

Edited April 23, 2006 by MartyBartfast

[+Roving Rangies]

All reconised by-ways have public rights of way except when a Section 56 has been applied to vehiclular access.

 

As for dogs, they have rights of way as long as they are kept under control. e.g. on a lead.

 

Don't know if you know this, but appartently 8 feet either side of an open byway is council property, unless there is a wall, fence etc!

 

I suggest you contact G.L.A.S.S. with this issue, as they love a good fight about rights of ways!

[+martlakes]

As for dogs, they have rights of way as long as they are kept under control. e.g. on a lead.

 

As I understand it, dogs have to be 'under close control', particularly around livestock, but this may or may not be a lead. A lead may be a good idea depending on the dog but isn't an actual legal requirement. If you can control your dog well enough, a lead is not needed.

 

The situation may well be different on CROW access land - the land owners can often apply for an exception to dogs which requires them to be on leads, or banned completly. Large areas of the Trough of Bowland are like this. It's more to do with grouse than sheep in this instance. Duke of Westminster needs something to blast from the sky apparently. If you're on the footpath, the normal rules apply. If you start to wander you may have to put a lead on the dog.

[+Brenin Tegeingl]

The Law regarding Dogs on RoW's:

 

"Take a Dog, which must be on a lead, and be kept under close control near to livestock."

 

And regarding Open Access under the CRoW act 2000:

 

"Whilst dogs are welcome on access land, unless there is a local restriction prohibiting them. There are certain rules which have to be followed.

 

You are required to keep your dog on a lead no more than 2m long, between the 1st of March and the 31st of July, or at anytime of the year, when near Livestock.

 

Local restrictions may be in place, and there may be signs up with them, information can also be found at www.countrysideaccess.gov.uk .

 

Existing rights to walk dogs, along footpaths or other rights of way are not affected.

 

Please remember, that Dogs attacking or threatening Livestock may be “legally shot”."

 

Dave

[+martlakes]

The Law regarding Dogs on RoW's:

 

"Take a Dog, which must be on a lead, and be kept under close control near to livestock."

 

 

Hi

Can you provide a source for this quote because I didn't think this was the case. It is often said in various places but I didn't think it was actual law.

 

If it's true then a huge number of dog owners break the law every day!

 

The CROW stuff I've seen before and was helpfully accurate compared with my woolly memory!

 

Cheers

[+Brenin Tegeingl]

The Law regarding Dogs on RoW's:

 

"Take a Dog, which must be on a lead, and be kept under close control near to livestock."

 

 

Hi

Can you provide a source for this quote because I didn't think this was the case. It is often said in various places but I didn't think it was actual law.

 

If it's true then a huge number of dog owners break the law every day!

 

The CROW stuff I've seen before and was helpfully accurate compared with my woolly memory!

 

Cheers

 

Everything in the document was obtained from the following web sites

 

"The following web sites were used to gather this information

 

www.bedfordshire.gov.uk

 

www.naturenet.net

 

www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk

 

www.suffolkcc.gov.uk

 

www.countrysideaccess.gov.uk

 

www.ccw.gov.uk"

 

Sorry I cant quote exactly from which one as it has been a while since it was written.

 

Dave

[Mittellegi]

The other thing could be to do with lambing season.........just a thought

Or the management of grouse...

 

Punch in the OS co-ords into this website The Countryside Agency: the screen shot below shows an area from which people with dogs are excluded, even though there is a public footpath there.

 

[+Chris n Maria]

I don't think that the CROW regulations go over the existing rights for footpaths & byways. AFAIK if it is a byway then the regs for byways apply if you step off the byway the the right to roam rules apply.

 

Personally unless the notice had the look of something "official" I would ignore it and carry on with the dog on a lead. If anyone objects just ay "sorry I didn't see the sign" and retreat gracefully.

 

The best place to find the definitive answer is to contact your local council.

[Deego]

I go along with Chris n Maria, If its a legal notice I would find another way but if scrawled in paint or a home made sign, I would continue, with him under close control.

[+Pharisee]

In a similar vein... I was walking along a very narrow footpath (and it was very clearly signposted 'Public Footpath') when I encountered a young lady on a very large horse coming the other way. I had to move into the bushes at the side to avoid being trampled. When I politely pointed out that this was a footpath and not a bridleway, I was treated to some very cultured but extremely un-ladylike language to the effect that "It's my f***ing land and I'll ride my f***ing horse wherever I f***ing well please!"

 

General question.... Does a landowner have the right to ignore the restrictions placed on 'Public Rights of Way' across their land?

[+Brenin Tegeingl]

 

General question.... Does a landowner have the right to ignore the restrictions placed on 'Public Rights of Way' across their land?

 

Quick answer No. They may apply for a temporary restriction, or a permanent change to the reliant council which must be posted at the start and end of the RoW over their land. Even a RoW through the middle of a field which is ploughed over must be reinstated within 14 days.

 

Dave

[+Nellies Knackers]

If it was a homemade sign on a public right of way I'd be tempted to pull it down, as long as a dog is under control I don't see why there should be any problem.

But if the dog in question was riding a motorcycle that could be another issue...

[+martlakes]

From the Lake District National Park website

(sorry, I don't know how to do links on these pages! Copy & paste the Tiny url.)

 

http://tinyurl.com/hqvlj

 

What can I do on the access land?

• walk, run or climb

• picnic

• take photographs or paint

• view historic remains

• watch wildlife

 

Cycling, horse riding and driving are not allowed unless these activities already take place legally. You also can’t camp in the new open areas, swim or go boating.

 

Can I take the dog?

Yes, in many areas, if kept under close control. From 1 March until 31 July, dogs must be on a two-metre lead, so that breeding animals and birds are not disturbed. Leads should also be used where there is livestock.

 

From the Countryside Commission's website about the country code:

 

http://tinyurl.com/fgc34

 

Keep dogs under close control

The countryside is a great place to exercise dogs, but it’s every owner’s duty to make sure their dog is not a danger or nuisance to farm animals, wildlife or other people.

_ By law, you must control your dog so that it does not disturb or scare farm animals or wildlife. You must keep your dog on a short lead on most areas of open country and common land between 1 March and 31 July, and at all times near farm animals.

_ You do not have to put your dog on a lead on public paths as long as it is under close control. But as a general rule, keep your dog on a lead if you cannot rely on its obedience. By law, farmers are entitled to destroy a dog that injures or worries their animals.

_ If a farm animal chases you and your dog, it is safer to let your dog off the lead – don’t risk getting hurt by trying to protect it.

_ Take particular care that your dog doesn’t scare sheep and lambs or wander where it might disturb birds that nest on the ground and other wildlife – eggs and young will soon die without protection from their parents.

_ Everyone knows how unpleasant dog mess is and it can cause infections – so always clean up after your dog and get rid of the mess responsibly. Also make sure your dog is wormed regularly.

_ You can also find out more by phoning the Open Access Helpline on 0845 100 3298.

 

So, it does have to be under close control around livestock but this doesn't have to mean a lead. Only if you're off a ROW on CROW land do restrictions apply at certain times.

 

I think landowners and official bodies often misquote the law because they would rather go for the simple message of 'put a lead on' than explain the complexity of 'close control'. It's rather lazy, but there are certainly some feckless folk about, some of whom have dogs they can't control.

 

It's worth remembering the exact law, I would think, otherwise there would be few areas that you could legally let a (well behaved) dog off a lead. Parks in town I suppose, but virtually no where in the countryside.

 

Cheers

[+Travers]

You can check the definitive map held with your local council which will show the definitions of routes (sometimes, but not often, printed maps may not be accurate).

 

If it's a footpath, bridleway or byway, you can take your dog, so long as you stick to the track. The right to roam is more complicated as you sometimes have to stick to the designated tracks if you have a dog - there are generally clearly posted, official signs.

 

It's only common sense that dogs are kept on leads when passing livestock, even if they are used to it. Ours have walked through fields of horses and cattle since they were pups on an almost daily basis and they would never chase them, but we still keep them on leads when there are youngstock or sheep and if we see a horse approaching, we always keep hold of them for the rider's benefit and their own - just because they are used to horses, doesn't mean that horses are comfortable with dogs.

 

I do think it's sad that people can't take responsibility for the activity they are doing - we do it all - drive the byways, ride the bridlepaths and walk the footpaths. It can all be combined.

 

That said, it's VERY important that you continue to use the track for the purpose - if it's not used for that purpose for a certain length of time, it can be reverted (for example, a bridleway can be reverted to a footpath). Likewise, if a track has been used for a period and is subsequently blocked, there may be a legal avenue for complaint if it can be proven that it is a historical route.

[nobby.nobbs]

the only thingsi would emphasise is that not everyone likes dogs so if yours can't be trusted to not jump all over other people then keep it on a lead. plus clean up after it. a little consideration is all we need for us all to enjoy the countryside.

 

not sure of the owners right to use ROW on horse... but did she really need to resort to that sort of language?

[+Roving Rangies]

Footpath = for walkers only

Brideway= for horse riders and foot walkers only

By-way = for walkers, horse riders, cyclists, motorbikes and cars etc

BOAT = by way open to all traffic

RUPP = road used as public path (usually privately owned land)

 

Rupp's are the only access that has the disgression of the land owners approval.

All of the other above access is owned and cared for by the local or county council.

[lakeuk]

Footpath = for walkers only

Brideway= for horse riders and foot walkers only

By-way = for walkers, horse riders, cyclists, motorbikes and cars etc

BOAT = by way open to all traffic

RUPP = road used as public path (usually privately owned land)

 

Rupp's are the only access that has the disgression of the land owners approval.

All of the other above access is owned and cared for by the local or county council.

 

Cyclists can use brideways,

 

Councils / Authorities can apply restricts to specific route, ie for event's or a recent example is a council on the west coast of cumbria has banned owners from walking their dogs along a stretch of sea prom

[+Brenin Tegeingl]

Footpaths which are RoW's crossing private land, belong to the landowner. Who has a statutory duty towards it. The relevant Council act as the enforcing officer and also supply grants for the replacement or maintenance of stiles and other access points. The majority of RUPPs are being reclassified, many to Restricted Foot Paths.

 

Dave

[+Roving Rangies]

Don't know too much about the walking side or Crow, not my thing. But the best way to be legal, as said in previous replies, is to visit the local council and get a defined map.

I spent 3 days at Wiltshire County offices in Trowbridge. I do have a full set of defined Wiltshire maps, I even have listed all the ancient rights of way routes that have been classifed as unclassified. I know, that where I drive I am completely legal.

As regards to dogs, I own a dog, I hope I am classed as a responsible owner, clear up after it, walk it o a lead when near farm animals, yet also respect other peole may not like dogs, so walk him on an extenable lead when in busy places.

If someone wants their dog shot, or a prosicution for stock worring, then a dog not on a lead in the countryside is asking for trouble.

I even know of a dog being agressive toward a car in a car park. The owner returned and reversed the car, with out knowing the dog was left to wander behind the car by its owner. The car driver only realised the dog had been run over when a miscellaneous speed hump appeared.

 

Whos' fault/ Driver? Dog? No the owner for not keeping control of his dog.

[+flipflopnick]

hi guys just wondered if someone could clear this up for me?

 

Went to do a cache today and took the dog with me. cache happens to be along a byway. When I got to the gate i noticed a laminated, computer typed, small sign nailed to the gate, saying no dogs, motorbikes or horses.

 

 

The sign may be asking you to clear up the dog mess afterwards. Parts of the C2C cycleway in Whitehaven are known as dog sh!t alley for obvious reasons. Also other request for no motorbikes or horses could be explained by the narrowness of the track, as detailed above, apart from legal status as a footpath.

 

2p worth