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OttoLund

**** New Gpsmap 60/76 And Etrex With Sirf ****

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The important questions are:

Will TransFlash cards in GARMIN "x" models will store maps only?

Or waypoints too?

And tracklogs too? :)

 

I'm tired of loosing some clients just because Magellan dealers keep screeming "UNLIMITED waypoints and tracks !" . Very curiuos if GARMIN has learned this lesson well..... :P

 

Vic

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Am I the only one hyperventilating over this?

 

Since I returned the Lowrance (sorry guys, I'm just not enough of a computer guy to make it work with GSAK), I've been looking at alternatives. A 60Cx just might fit that bill.

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Sounds like the Garmin receivers will be meeting the quality of the Magellan receivers. Competition is good.

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Am I the only one hyperventilating over this?

 

Since I returned the Lowrance (sorry guys, I'm just not enough of a computer guy to make it work with GSAK), I've been looking at alternatives. A 60Cx just might fit that bill.

 

nope!

 

sounds pretty cool to me too!

 

hmmm... now just how do I talk my caching partner into it?

 

cc\

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The important questions are:

Will TransFlash cards in GARMIN "x" models will store maps only?

Or waypoints too?

And tracklogs too? :P

 

I'm tired of loosing some clients just because Magellan dealers keep screeming "UNLIMITED waypoints and tracks !" . Very curiuos if GARMIN has learned this lesson well..... :)

Well, judging by the interface Garmin has designed around all the other features *not* related to expandable memory, I have high expectations. They may not get it just right the first time, but I have the sense that they place a certain priority on firmware development and enhancements. I think they're smart enough to know users want to use that memory for more than just maps.

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now just how do I talk my caching partner into it?

It shouldn't be difficult to convince a caching partner to get one. It would be more difficult to convince an non-caching spouse to get one. Luckily the 60C and 60Cx look so much alike, mine won't know the difference!!! :D

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now just how do I talk my caching partner into it?

Here are a few prompts; maybe one of these will convince your caching partner:

"Honey, it slipped out of my hand and appears to be gone forever. :D "

"What do I want for Christmas? ...hmmm let me think... :P "

"Pleeeeeeease" (flash those big blue/brown eyes) :D

"Dear, I have come up with the perfect present for you..." :D

"We absolutely need to get this for the car; it's a safety item ... think of the kids..." :)

 

And if your caching partner is your dad, then there is always:

"Daddy, Pleeeeeeease. :D I really, really need it" (don't bother with flashing those big blue/brown eyes, that does not work in this situation - it just makes him suspicious).

 

...and as always ... "your milage may vary"...

Edited by Hynr

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Do you think the impending release of these models explains the change to large map segments in City Navigator V7? I.E., " buy one of these new models and you can fit all the map segments you want on the memory card."

That would be pretty harsh disregard for the current handheld users with fixed memory.

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Bass Pro already showing Legend and vista models available.

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Certain members of the Streetpilot "i" series use Transflash.

 

Transflash is a relatively new format, electrically compatible with SD. When you buy the units from Sandisk, they come with a carrier that adapts to the larger shell and moves the pins to a compatible spacing.

 

Transflash is currently topping out around 512MB, but those are pretty hard to find.

 

Now, if Garmin gets the expandable memory on these even close to right (and, as Embra points out above, I have more confidence they'll get it right within a rev or two before Magellan even awakens to having their business taken away from them) these have the potential to be exciting. Notice they're the same price as the non "X" units at Bass Pro.

 

It's not a given that they'll get the heirarchial storage thing as sweet as Magellan has it it. The StreetPilots with expandable mem, for example, don't do it at all. But even if its used "merely" for map memory, this would still be a "no excuses" product for a majority of the market.

 

Notably, Embra's usage pattern wouldn't benefit unless they do some actual firmware work on the new models to add file waypoint/track storage...

 

(My cell fone uses Transflash; that's why I know this...)

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Do the x-models have POI, avoidance and proximity alarm functionality?

Is the upcoming Quest 2 Europe equipped with SiRF and expandable memory?

 

Otto ;)

Norway

Edited by OttoLund

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I was unable to find any mention of these on the Garmin website. Am I looking in the wrong place or is this an example of vaporware?

 

Please don't let it be vaporware. I really want one of these.

 

Did that sound too desperate? Not desperate enough? I can kick it up or down a notch, as required.

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Am I looking in the wrong place or is this an example of vaporware?

No, you're not looking in the wrong place (they're not mentioned on Garmin's website), but I don't think they're vaporware either. As noted in the previous thread:

http://forums.Groundspeak.com/GC/index.php?showtopic=114790

the Garmin dealer who owns tvnav.com has gotten confirmation from Garmin that these models were supposed to be announced at the CES show in January. So Bass Pro and the Norwegian site have jumped the gun with their announcements but it still seems like a legitimate product description. I wouldn't expect to see any shipments until sometime early next year.

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now just how do I talk my caching partner into it?

It shouldn't be difficult to convince a caching partner to get one. It would be more difficult to convince an non-caching spouse to get one. Luckily the 60C and 60Cx look so much alike, mine won't know the difference!!! :ninja:

 

HA! I thought I was being obvious -

 

my caching partner IS my wife!

 

now what?

 

I was thinking the same thing about looking the same.

 

cc\

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now just how do I talk my caching partner into it?

Here are a few prompts; maybe one of these will convince your caching partner:

"Honey, it slipped out of my hand and appears to be gone forever. :ninja: "

"What do I want for Christmas? ...hmmm let me think... :ninja: "

"Pleeeeeeease" (flash those big blue/brown eyes) :ninja:

"Dear, I have come up with the perfect present for you..." :ninja:

"We absolutely need to get this for the car; it's a safety item ... think of the kids..." :ninja:

 

And if your caching partner is your dad, then there is always:

"Daddy, Pleeeeeeease. :ninja: I really, really need it" (don't bother with flashing those big blue/brown eyes, that does not work in this situation - it just makes him suspicious).

 

...and as always ... "your milage may vary"...

 

neat ideas - and you got the person right --

 

partner is my wife -

 

cc\

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I presented my article on gpspassion.com forums. They didn't like it :ninja: They threatened to ban me, I said that was okay - peace and quiet. I don't know why, could be that I first misplaced my posts in"wrong" topics and got duplicates in the forum. I myself just love good news. They are hard to find nowadays.

 

Thank you for your positive response and all the information I've received :ninja:

 

Regarding the x-models, I wonder why Boss Pro Shops are presenting them and Garmin don't want to talk about it. Anybody who knows?

Edited by OttoLund

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The important questions are:

Will TransFlash cards in GARMIN "x" models will store maps only?

Or waypoints too? 

And tracklogs too? :ninja:

 

Vic

I know that with my Moto phone it uses the Trans Flash card to store video's, movies, pics and ringtones.

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Regarding the x-models, I wonder why Boss Pro Shops are presenting them and Garmin don't want to talk about it. Anybody who knows?

Marketing.

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Regarding the x-models, I wonder why Boss Pro Shops are presenting them and Garmin don't want to talk about it. Anybody who knows?

Marketing.

Just good old fashioned common sense. They've probably manufactured a ton of 60c/60cs/vistaC/legendC units in preparation for the shopping season, and they don't want to get stuck with them. And since it's such a popular category, they probably didn't want to introduce a brand new mechanical design just before xmas; they prefer to have a smaller run around the March slump to iron out the bugs.

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It's possible to place orders on the x-models at Boss Pro Shops. Is is possible that customers place orders in November and patiently waits for delivery after Santa Claus has finished his job and the new year rockets are exploded?

For the time beeing the stock of x-models seems to be 0.

Edited by OttoLund

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More x-model news:

http://www.gpsnews.org/

 

Seems to be based on information from Bass Pro Site, and rather conclusive.

 

Today I received EGNOS with my 60CS when geocaching for "Dreiers minne" here far north, with the EGNOS satellites very low in the horizon. I lost EGNOS signal in the forests. In spite of reporting up to 10-15m error in the position, without EGNOS, the GPSr "middled" to approx. 1m from the cache, found it right away.

 

With SiRF the EGNOS signal probably will be received almost everywhere outdoors, also far north as in Canada and Scandinavia.

 

We use headlights with light diodes and AA/AAA batteries, very very practical, you can cache in darkness too, and we're going to this winter. Headlight units you can buy for under $15 :huh:

Edited by OttoLund

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Today I received EGNOS with my 60CS when geocaching for "Dreiers minne" here far north, with the EGNOS satellites very low in the horizon. I lost EGNOS signal in the forests. In spite of reporting up to 10-15m error in the position, without EGNOS, the GPSr "middled" to approx. 1m from the cache, found it right away.

 

With SiRF the EGNOS signal probably will be received almost everywhere outdoors, also far north as in Canada and Scandinavia.

You still need a clear view to the EGNOS satellite that is low in the horizon.

Building, Mountains etc still blocks the signals. Here in Norway it is lots of mountains.

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You still need a clear view to the EGNOS satellite that is low in the horizon.

Building, Mountains etc still blocks the signals.  Here in Norway it is lots of mountains.

One of the main solutions seems to be distribution of the correction information over the internet and through wireless networks to the GPSr.

 

From http://www.mobilecrossing.com/support/dgps_print.html:

 

Internet Corrections

 

WAAS/EGNOS systems rely on geostationary satellites to supply the correction information. Unfortunately these satellites are not always visible or usable to GPS receivers in urban canyons or high latitudes. To solve this problem the egnos group has developed an internet solution called SisNet which provides the correction information via the internet. A wireless GPS system such as one that is attached to a wireless enabled PDA could collect the information from the internet and then supply it to a regular GPS using standard DGPS correction techniques. In this use a WAAS/EGNOS capable receiver is not required but a specific software implementation would be needed.

 

SISNet, Signal In Space through the interNet: http://esamultimedia.esa.int/docs/egnos/es...snet/sisnet.htm

 

A possible solution could be to connect the GPSr to a PDA. The PDA receives correction data via wireless GSM/GPRS/3GSM(3G) from the internet and transfers DGPS data to the GPSr. The most practical solution is to integrate GPSr and PDA functionality in one unit.

 

What is: GSM GPRS 3GSM(3G) PDA EGNOS(/WAAS)

 

Is it possible to generate DGPS data centrally and transfer through GSM/GPRS/3GSM network stations to a Garmin GPSmap 60CSx?

Edited by OttoLund

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Will the unit still have the base 115mb + the card? Or will the card replace all memory?

I hope the former.

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Will the  unit still have the base 115mb + the card?  Or will the card replace all memory?

I hope the former.

I don't really know (no one does) but I would be willing to bet the TransFlash card replaces the 115 mb internal memory. They would still have a small internal memory to contain the basemap.

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I don't really know (no one does) but I would be willing to bet the TransFlash card replaces the 115 mb internal memory. They would still have a small internal memory to contain the basemap.

I think Garmin has chosen to use both internal waterproof memory and external "less-waterproof" upgradable memory, to ensure that a unit can be used if the external memory stops functioning

I'd hoped for POI, proximity alarm and avoidance functionality in the x-models, but there's nothing in the preliminary documentation that indicate they have.

Edited by OttoLund

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I think Garmin has chosen to use both internal waterproof memory and external "less-waterproof" upgradable memory, to ensure that a unit can be used if the external memory stops functioning

That sure wouldn't be a very good design since people will expect the unit to work in outdoor conditions and keep all the memory functional. I'd note that all the previous waterproof units by both Garmin and other manufacturers that have expandable memory cards locate the cards behind waterproof seals. That includes the Garmin SPIII, 26x0, 27x0, Magellan Meridians, eXplorists, and several of the Lowrance iFinder series (H2O, Hunt, etc.). All of these are specified to be waterproof in accordance with IPX7. I expect the new models to also be waterproof and protect the memory card.

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Obviously, I haven't seen the hardware, but my guess matches Peter's. Transflash/MicroSD is really small and not meant to be handled very much, so I don't see it being externally accessible.

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Obviously, I haven't seen the hardware, but my guess matches Peter's.  Transflash/MicroSD is really small and not meant to be handled very much, so I don't see it being externally accessible.

The memory card could be placed under the batteries, externally accessible, probably in an larger adapter, and/or behind a waterproof lid. Maybe the adapter itself is waterproof. The battery lid is also waterproof enough.

 

Anyway, I don't think there's any point in using microSD/Transflash cards if they aren't externally accessible. We'll see when Garmin gives us the final specifications :blink:

Edited by OttoLund

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I don't think there's any point in using microSD/Transflash cards if they aren't externally accessible.

The Meridian and Explorist SD cards are not very accessible, and I've never had a problem with that.

 

In fact, I think I've only taken the SD card out of my Explorist two or three times since I bought the thing seven or eight months ago. Why would you need to take it out?

 

Jamie

Edited by Jamie Z

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Why would you need to take it out?

Only Lowrance would have a requirement like that :blink:

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I don't think there's any point in using microSD/Transflash cards if they aren't externally accessible.

The Meridian and Explorist SD cards are not very accessible, and I've never had a problem with that.

 

In fact, I think I've only taken the SD card out of my Explorist two or three times since I bought the thing seven or eight months ago. Why would you need to take it out?

 

Jamie

 

because it is faster to load maps and waypoints by plugging it into a memory card reader/writer than use the gps as the reader/writer. Now that we have USB this is less of an issue but it is still a lot faster.

 

cc\

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I don't think there's any point in using microSD/Transflash cards if they aren't externally accessible.

The Meridian and Explorist SD cards are not very accessible, and I've never had a problem with that.

 

In fact, I think I've only taken the SD card out of my Explorist two or three times since I bought the thing seven or eight months ago. Why would you need to take it out?

 

Jamie

 

because it is faster to load maps and waypoints by plugging it into a memory card reader/writer than use the gps as the reader/writer. Now that we have USB this is less of an issue but it is still a lot faster.

 

cc\

Since you can also read as well as write to the cards with a reader (Garmin anyway), it also means that you can save the card data on a hard drive and only need to copy it back rather than regenerate the whole map and rewrite it. It's a pretty significant time saving when you are using larger cards.

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I have done some digging on the internet for Garmin at the 2006 CES.

 

Here is a link for Garmin January 5 to 8:

http://www.cesweb.org/attendees/directory/...p?exhibid=5130&

 

Here is a link for Magellan on the same Dates:

http://www.cesweb.org/attendees/directory/...p?exhibid=5636&

 

http://www.cesweb.org

 

Looks like January 10th would be the earliest that Basspro Outdoor world could sell any "X" models by Garmin.

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Just to keep it going, here is a review of the SiRFF technology in a Garmin Nuvi 350 and how well it works.

They say:

 

"We also tested the pedestrian navigation profile in one of the world's most challenging environments—Manhattan. Most GPS units fail miserably when you try to use them in Manhattan's "canyons." Not the nüvi; it kept a lock on five or more satellites throughout our walk between Penn Station and our offices on East 28th Street and Park Avenue. One truly inspiring feat: The device maintained satellite lock even while we were walking under construction scaffolding."

 

Which is consistent with what you would expect from a Sirf III unit.

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Walter Mossberg of the Wall Street Journal reviewed the nuvi and pretty much panned it. I'm taking his review with a grain of salt. He wrote

And the Nüvi's core function, GPS navigation, is still too crude and clumsy to command such a high price from a mainstream, casual user. This is a problem with every GPS receiver I've tested, not just the Nüvi. Too often, all of them suggest routes that a savvy local driver would immediately recognize as too long or too slow or too likely to place you into heavy traffic.

The thing is, people don't use a GPS receiver to tell them how to get to a place they already know how to get to. If someone knows how to get somewhere, they don't need directions. People use a GPSr to get a route to a place they don't already know how to get to.

 

By the way, the SiRF III chipset won one of PC Magazine's "technology of the year" award things.

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