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A lock could be placed to prevent people logging it after it is archived

 

Geocachers can place caches and lie about where the cache is, and no one from the Parks will know. Completely unregulated, caches would be so far off trail in locations that are sensitive and Parks Canada would be unable to stop it.

 

In comparison, the potential low impact version of Geocaching OGA has proposed, is far more environmentally aware

1) the lock idea has been discussed many times in the forums and it just aint going to happen.

 

2) You are making the assumption that unregulated caches would be destructive to the surrounding environment. Almost all caches are unregulated, except for ceocaching.com. Does this imply that they are placed with out regard for the surrounding environment?

 

3) How is the low impact version going to be enforced beyond what geocaching.com enforces?

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Does any one know…

1) How many cachers are there in Canada, aprox?

2) How organizations exist to represent cachers in their areas?

3) How many cachers are represented by their local organizations? By represented I don’t me for example the OGA representing all of Ontario, but rather the number of active members.

 

I am just wondering if the majority of cachers in Canada even know what is going on with Parks Canada, or even care?

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I am just wondering if the majority of cachers in Canada even know what is going on with Parks Canada, or even care?

I agree Keith that only a small portion of Canadian cachers are aware of the current situation.

 

The question in my mind becomes:

 

What happens when other land-owning organizations are faced with similar questions and look to the biggest park system in Canada and say "Well its what they're doing".

 

I am of the same mindset as some of the people in this forum in that I really am not affected by a "Parks Canada" ban directly being that there aren't really too many around my location, but I worry for the future of caching on a wider scale when these types of Precedents are being set by major park organizations.

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That's exactly it Swifteroo. This policy will be the guideline for the provincial and municipal parks. Some will be more understanding than others, but once PC has the policy written in stone, it will be even harder to change.

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Quick reply as I have to get heading to work

 

The LOCK option is already in place on numerous caches. Most notably the "Yellow Jeep Locationless", but also "Big Guns" by Res2100 and "2004 Calendar Cache" by The Blue Quasar

 

I suspect that all of the Archived Locationless caches have the lock option enabled.

 

Big-J has clamped down on the ability to log finds on Archived caches and I expect that this will grow to prevent loopholes.

 

I agree fully that most Canadian Cachers will be unaware of the Policy.

 

As far as I know when Cache-Tech gets a submission, he/she checks the co-ordinates and if it falls onto Parks Canada land, CT would contact the cache with the Policy and tell them to get the proper permission.

 

How I would like to see it all regulated is that to place a cache, the cacher would have to get site permission from the Park Superintendent or Park Approver for Caching and probably visit the site to ensure the placement meet within the Policy guidelines. They would have the the final say on suitability.

 

Those that are unaware of the policy will be made aware during the approval process. Be that by Cache-Tech, or by a Parks Canada rep contacting the owner if Cache-Tech didn't know it was a protected site.

 

I was not saying that cachers currently place with no regard for the local ecology, far from it. But this way everyone's interests are protected and ensured.

 

But there are caches out there that go too far beyond the limitations of park level rules for off trail use. Again, it would be up to the Park Superintendent or staff to decide what is appropriate.

 

Remember that right now, for every cache that is placed, the cache owner is supposed to get permission to place the cache on the land. For the most part when it comes to a public park I doubt anyone does, but for Parks Canada sites that will be a requirement.

 

OGA - Admin

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For the LOCK option, you can still view the cache but you cannot actually even post a note on the cache any longer.

 

See this link and try to post a note, you will see the effect of the lock

 

Big Guns by Res 2100

 

And I don't think anyone knows how many cachers there are in Canada, or how many groups have formed.

 

But I hope that all groups can agree to work together to show that we all are concerned about this.

 

OGA - Admin

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And I don't think anyone knows how many cachers there are in Canada, or how many groups have formed.

First let me start off by saying it’s a shame no-one can log Yellow Jeep Fever anymore. That was the corner stone of geocaching locationless caches.

 

Please don’t take this the wrong way, but how could the impact of geocaching be discussed with Parks Canada with out knowing how many people would be involved? Being the OGA you must at least know approximately how many cachers are in Ontario and how many are members of the OGA. Did this ever come up during the talks with Parks Canada?

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Since everyone at geocaching.com sets their 'home co-ordinates', surely there is a way for somebody to get a count of the number of people registered at gc.com with co-ordinates in Ontario, BC, Canada, etc.

 

It's in their database.

 

While this couldn't be used for census information, or be considered accurate to the point of including everyone, it would give a 'general idea' of at least the cachers that found geocaching.com, and just getting a count of this type shouldn't violate any privacy legislation that I know of, just a matter of someone running a query at GC.com.

 

They'd probably listen to someone like the OGA requesting this information for a liason with Parks Canada.... ?

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Re: How many geocachers there are in Ontario

 

I can say with great confidense that there are about 200 geocachers in Ontario that have over 100 Finds. And just based on additional observations I would say there are 20 times that many cachers in Ontario that have less than 100 finds, if not more. So for an educated guess I would say that Ontario has 4200 geocachers (that have logged atleast one find). And based on the percentage of caches in Ontario compared to the rest of Canada, lets times that by 3 and we would have about 12600 geocachers in Canada. Or about 1 cacher for every 2400 non cachers.

Edited by res2100

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I replied to Res2100 in regards to his locationless cache by PM as it is off topic to this thread.

 

In regards to locking a cache, I hope this does not have to be done with any caches that are placed in Parks Canada. I try to keep this to a last resort or when requested for a number of reasons by the cache owner.

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I wish we knew how many cachers there are in each Province too.

 

That would be a very useful resource

 

I think Res's number seem fair.

 

I don't think they can easily scan 'hom co-ords" to find that out because of the immense size of the user data base.

 

It did come up in talks though, and honestly I doubt that PC has any idea how many people are caching, because even per account there often isn't just one person.

 

This is why we suggested that they monitor the current caches to see how many visits each receive.

 

To date, we still do ont have a list of caches that PC thinks are on their land. So we are still waiting. I assume that when they provide us with this list that we will be given time to check them all and find out for sure too. I don't think we should automatically start pulling caches based on their list without verification.

 

OGA - Admin

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I don't think they can easily scan 'hom co-ords" to find that out because of the immense size of the user data base.

 

I've seen SQL errors on the site that tells me they run a SQL server on Geocaching.com. A SQL server is designed to be able to run queries like that.

 

Surely, if geocaching.com can handle pocket queries for tens of thousands of premium members they can handle this. In my Pocket Queries I can ask for results in Ontario for caches - how is the location of a cache different from the location of a cacher? Both of these values are represented in the database with LAT/LONG values and I'm sure the server doesn't really care if its Tupperware or Human.

 

Has anyone actually ASKED Groundspeak/geocaching.com for the information?

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I'm sorry, I thought the OGA had created a database of all the caches in Ontario. According to my data there are 3661 caches by 1143 cachers in Ontario. This is only the number of caches placed and the number of owners that placed them. Results may vary.

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I think gc.com CAN provide the information with some ease as to how many cachers there are in Canada, but I think that gc.com WON'T provide this information. I am sure I have seen others in the other forums ask similar things and the standard reply basically is "None of your business". They are a private company that makes atleast a couple million dollars a year and it's been shown that they are reluctant to give out certain information, since this is their bread and butter, and I respect them for that, as they surely don't want others to simply come along and take their geocache information "knowledge" to start up a competition business. So I think that all we can do is take educated guesses. OGA-admin made a good point that in many cases there is more than one person/family member that is represented by each account. So with that I take that fact into account and will revise my estimate to say that there is 1 cacher for every 1200 non-cachers. And yes, as NP stated, SQL Server can certainly handle queries that go through 200,000+ records in a very short time, especially with the powerful servers that gc.com would have. Also, I am sure that there are many cachers that do not enter their home country, province or coordinates. I know I do not have Canada set as my home country...don't ask why.

 

Also if anyone wants to get a list of all active caches in Ontario, they can easily do this by setting up 6 PQs by date. I have done this for a section of Florida that we will be visiting during our vacation. Or just click this link of active Ontario caches.

 

Keith, nice job on the petition....hopefully everyone will sign it.

Edited by res2100

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What would be very beneficial to our cause, would be to compare the numbers of Geocachers to the numbers of other permitted uses in these parks - like hiking, mountain biking, horseback ridiing, etc.

 

I would imagine the numbers are somewhat higher for the other uses, and that the number of hikers going through some of our parkland has far more lasting effects than a dozen geocachers coming by in a month.

 

I would think it would be in Geocaching.com's self interest to release numbers like # of cachers in Canada to an organization (Parks Canada) that would ban their business in huge swaths of land. I'm not sure exactly what they would be protecting by keeping that particular fact secret. Res, you are probably correct though - they won't release the info to protect their business model.

 

Government CAN actually be convinced to hold off on bans. For example in Halton Hills, the town was going to ban mountain bikes in an area called Hungry Hollow, but after getting information from local mountain bikers, they held off on banning the activity - unless the area gets damaged. Hopefully, we can educate Parks Canada the same way.

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I agree that as in the example given about potential banning of bikes when they put the new trails in Hungry Hollow, it just takes a few vocal people to have the government or even organizations to take note and listen. And in business, we change our software to meet the customers demands. So I hope park systems would listen to other's demands (but I don't think we have been forceful or vocal enough to this point. They may be listening, but they are also ignoring). Speaking of Hungry Hollow, Tylor and I were checking out our Grafitti Rock cache, when 6 kids (maybe age 10-12) come along on their bikes/skateboards and start playing around under the bridge...they definately saw we were there, so we decided to walk on a little further, but still keep an eye on them, since I thought they may check out what we were suspicially doing by our cache, and as we turn around and once again stand on the trail under the bridge close to them (with our bikes...note to self, don't go bike riding down there on my 10-speed bike...I gotta get my tire fixed soon on my mountain bike) close to them, they proceed to light a fire under the top of the bridge and they leave the area just letting the fire burn. So with regards to Parks Canada, I am sure they would rather have us reasonably responsible geocachers in their parks than irresponsible people who have no regard for things around them.

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Oh yes, I have a complete list of Ontario CACHES... I thought you said CACHERS

 

Total # of caches EVER, 3670

Total # Archived 678

 

These numbers are accurate to 4 days ago.

 

My PQ's are spread out, so I never actually match GC.com 100%

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As Earthcaches are virtual caches they have not been banned ... yet. The National Parks in the US are not yet allowing Earthcaches but that has been in discussion for quite some time now with no resolution yet. I have a number of sites that I would like to list in Yellowstone and the Grand Canyon but Geoaware wants us to hold off on these ones until he has discussed the matter with the NPS in the US. What will happen in Canada? Who knows. For now, Parks Canada is just addressing physical caches.

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"Managers do things right...Leaders do the right things"

Doesn't it make sense to find activities, especially those of a hiking, biking, excercising, and environmental nature and capitalize on them to get people to come to our parks in Canada? Some person with lots of time on their hands came up with this idea...Give a quick call or email to your local MP and educate them as to the benefits of having Geocaching as part of the activity in our Canadian Parks... Sorry, I meant "their" Canadian Parks... :P

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.Give a quick call or email to your local MP and educate them as to the benefits of having Geocaching as part of the activity in our Canadian Parks... Sorry, I meant "their" Canadian Parks... :huh:

There is a movement under way to do just that. Add your name to the online petitions hosted at the following link.

 

Parks Canada and Ontario Parks Geocaching Petitions

 

Of course, letters and phone calls to your local MPs and MPPs would also be very helpful. The squeaky wheel gets the oil. :P

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Of course, letters and phone calls to your local MPs and MPPs would also be very helpful. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.  :(

Or you could just take the game underground. That way there is no need to deal with bureaucrats. Unless you're really hung-up on getting that smilie you'll still be playing the game.

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Of course, letters and phone calls to your local MPs and MPPs would also be very helpful. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.  :(

Or you could just take the game underground. That way there is no need to deal with bureaucrats. Unless you're really hung-up on getting that smilie you'll still be playing the game.

That's a good way for the bureaucrats to take the Carolina lead and make a Provincial law against geocaching. They're actually looking at the possibility of sending geocachers to JAIL in North Carolina. I'd rather the game not become a felony crime.

 

But you are right, if PC and Ontario Parks push hard enough, they will drive some people underground and lose their current liason with the geocaching community.

 

I for one will be starting with the lobbying.

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Congratulations to "The Wet Coast Explorers" on being elected 'President' of the British Columbia Geocaching Association.

 

I hope you and your executive can work together with our executive in the near future on the Parks Canada discussion.

 

Of course everyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion, and if provincial groups are involved in a meeting then those suggestions would certainly be discussed and evaluated.

 

The Blue Quasar

OGA - Admin

OGA webpage

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Congratulations to "The Wet Coast Explorers" on being elected 'President' of the British Columbia Geocaching Association.

 

I hope you and your executive can work together with our executive in the near future on the Parks Canada discussion.

 

Of course everyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion, and if provincial groups are involved in a meeting then those suggestions would certainly be discussed and evaluated.

Thanks a lot BQ. I feel that we've got a fantastic executive lined up for the coming year and we are quite anxious to become involved in the discussions, not only at the provincial level here, but at the federal level too. Someone from our board will be in touch soon. Looking forward to working with you, the OGA and other Canadian associations!

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Parks...if it wasn't for my time spent geocaching, I most likely never would have step into the many parks I have visited. I think geocaching is a good thing as it made me see places I will never forget or gaved me a reason to go there. I see all this as just another silly law and a waste of time and of tax payers money. Mother nature does what she wants and takes pretty good care of herself without further interference. Just my 0.02 cents.

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and anotherthing I'd like to mention...I see more damage done by street bums, homeless people or whatever you want to call them then I see caching having done. My other 0.02 cnts.

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The total number of cachers in a province is irrelevant. One thing that has helped us successfully explain the impact of geocaching is to explain frequency of visitation and then comparing it to other approved recreational uses.

 

Geocaching is an activity. So is hiking, biking, fishing, hunting, riding ATV's, etc. A great way to show them the impact of geocaching is to show them numbers on cache visit frequency. Typically you would see low average number of geocachers in a one month period of time. There would be many times more visitors in a park for other activities than there would be for geocaching. The impact to a park for a geocache per month might be 10 or 20 visitors in the first month and it usually diminishes down to about 4 or so a month after that (or less). That is one geocacher a week. When you show them that the frequency for the activity is very low you can put the activity in perspective with other approved recreational uses for the same park. You have real world examples of caches and the number of visitors to those caches, so showing them some real examples and breaking it down to a "per month visit" analysis is a huge example of the low impact of geocaching compared to other approved recreational uses.

 

Couple this with the fact that geocachers clean up the environment in these parks and you get a great bullet point to support your arguments. It always seems that fishermen leave trash along the shoreline of lakes, yet the activity of fishing is widely accepted. Social trails to fishing areas are well worn and are carelessly littered regularly. You can go on and on.

 

I hope this helps.

Edited by mtn-man

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The impact to a park for a geocache per month might be 10 or 20 visitors in the first month and it usually diminishes down to about 4 or so a month after that (or less).

Likely far less in Canada.

 

In Vancouver we have a number of parks (Provincial and City) on our North Shore. I recently placed a cache at a beautiful waterfall and on top of a small mountain. Neither cache saw a visitor for the first two weeks. And those parks are very accessible. 45 minutes to get to from almost anywhere in the GVRD.

 

Some of the other caches in these North Shore parks have been there for two years or more, and they've not seen 30 visitors each yet, a few them much less.

 

I've just placed two new mountain top caches, and I'd be surprised if they each see ten visitors before the end of the year.

 

The frequency of vistitation is probably much lower in Parks not so easily accessible by city folks.

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The contact email address for Parks Canada is listed on the pages.

Or use this one.

 

frances.gertsch@pc.gc.ca

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Geocaching is an activity. So is hiking, biking, fishing, hunting, riding ATV's, etc.

Wait, they permit ATVing in federal parks but they're disallowing Geocaching because they're worried that it might have a negative impact on the environment? Please, someone tell me I've missed something, because that's INSANE. ATVs and other offroad vehicles completely destroy any trails they're used on, and yet we can't hike in and search for a cache?

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Parks Canada has the Interim Geocaching Policy

Its not a policy, Its a ban.

 

I for one will not spend one more cent in "their" parks. And belive me I have spent A LOT of cash visiting "their" parks.

 

Shoot first, ask questions later. The policy of a paper pushing desk jockey.

 

What a load of crap.

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I know it's been said before but how can they study the impacts of geocaching when all physical caches are removed from the parks. The fact that they are calling it an interim policy is really to try and appease people until it's renamed as the official policy.

 

Being a bureaucrat myself I fully understand and appreciate the regulations and the constraints that these people are working within. However, I must say that it appears to me that facts and figures were not confirmed before the basis of this policy was established. I'd be very interested to know just how much investigation and background research was put in before these decisions were made. I would like to be proven wrong but I suspect that this was simply a case of assuming that there was a problem and reacting accordingly without checking the facts.

 

If we want to see any action we need to be vocal about it. Contact your MP's - perhaps submit and F.O.I. request to find out how much background work really was done.

 

I really doubt that once caches are removed that we'll ever be allowed to put them back.

 

And for all those that will argue that there are plenty of other places to hide a cache...yes you are correct, but it's not about that. This is a much bigger issue than hiding tupperware in a bush.

Edited by Curious George

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Geocaching is an activity.  So is hiking, biking, fishing, hunting, riding ATV's, etc.

Wait, they permit ATVing in federal parks but they're disallowing Geocaching because they're worried that it might have a negative impact on the environment? Please, someone tell me I've missed something, because that's INSANE. ATVs and other offroad vehicles completely destroy any trails they're used on, and yet we can't hike in and search for a cache?

Mtn-man is from Georgia. He's speaking of American National Parks. I'm not aware of any Canadian Park that allows motorised recreation (other than boating and perhaps snowmobiling).

 

Of course, I'm only familiar with western Parks. There may be an eastern park or two that allow such activity.

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Its not a policy, Its a ban.

 

I for one will not spend one more cent in "their" parks. And belive me I have spent A LOT of cash visiting "their" parks.

 

Shoot first, ask questions later. The policy of a paper pushing desk jockey.

 

What a load of crap.

I agree with Dagg. Boycott the parks. God knows I've spend enough money on parking and other user fees in various national and provincial parks every year. If they don't want us using the public parks for caching then just don't use the parks at all. It seems we're not alone in boycotting parks. Recent news articles report that the number of visitors to BC provincial parks has declined sharply since they instituted pay parking and that they haven't even come close to the predicted revenues. Personally, I'm willing to boycott any park that bans caching.

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Geocaching is an activity.  So is hiking, biking, fishing, hunting, riding ATV's, etc.

Wait, they permit ATVing in federal parks but they're disallowing Geocaching because they're worried that it might have a negative impact on the environment? Please, someone tell me I've missed something, because that's INSANE. ATVs and other offroad vehicles completely destroy any trails they're used on, and yet we can't hike in and search for a cache?

Mtn-man is from Georgia. He's speaking of American National Parks. I'm not aware of any Canadian Park that allows motorised recreation (other than boating and perhaps snowmobiling).

 

Of course, I'm only familiar with western Parks. There may be an eastern park or two that allow such activity.

Understand that my comment is meant in a general sense. Don't focus on it literally. I don't know of any National Parks in the US that allow ATV riding, but I don't know the regulations for all of them. The point is to think about the uses that *are* allowed and compare the impact of geocaching to the impact that these other uses cause. When you talk about one geocacher per month vs. hundred of fishermen per month you begin to give them a better understanding of the frequency comparison.

 

I have a cache in a US National Park right now. They looked at banning and removing all caches, but this "impact study and comparison" approach worked for us. They do not allow new caches. They are looking at our existing caches and the impact they cause. The did remove a few in sensitive areas, but it was a HUGE win for us to be allowed to keep our existing caches in the US NPS areas.

 

I do agree with not spending your money in these parks. Let them know you will be visiting regional parks instead. Gorak's post is very interesting. They have turned away a portion of the public and now are going to turn away another group, the geocachers of Canada.

 

As hard as it is, please try to be rational and positive in your communications with them. Think of things that are positive such as CITO and exposure of beautiful areas to people that may never have know such wonderful places existed. Biting, hard-line comments might only make them repel more from the concept of geocaching. Talk about it like you are now and get opinions from each other. Bring it up in Association Meetings and event cache gatherings and on local boards. Be proactive if you know of bad caches that might cause a black eye and contact the cache owners.

 

Don't give up (and I know you won't). We did it in a US NPS area here in GA.

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As hard as it is, please try to be rational and positive in your communications with them.

I know I know.

It just pisses me off!

I spend a lot of time in National parks every year practicing LNT camping, My caches get VERY LITTLE traffic and are all on/near trails.

 

I’m mad!

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How is the communication between the OGA and Parks Canada being conducted? Verbally? Through email?

 

I'd like to see what sorts of conversations have taken place. What topics. Perhaps we can suggest courses of action in how to approach them for further conversation, especially with regards to impact studies.

 

Hopefully we can be kept abreast, as well, of the caches that Parks Canada do pick up and request to be archived. I'd be curious if they go out of their way to pick any up (or just a handful). I believe Dagg has one or two on the Broken Islands of Pacific Rim National Park. Those caches are fairly inaccessible, are Parks Canada going to go out of their way to retrieve those? I have my doubts.

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mtn-man is correct with what he has said. We all have to just cut our losses that have been imposed, but don't stop the line of communications with PC. I think the OGA or someone else should put up a web page on there site to compile all the communications we have had with PC and any info that we receive from PC, so everyone in the caching community can see how the talks are going. I know myself, I have been chatting with a few Federal and Provincial conservation officers on the topic, and some of them have not seen a problem with caching in the parks with some strict guidelines. I think that if we all come together as a group and figure out a way to make this work nation wide, we will have a good stab at getting caching allowed back in the Federal Parks as well as set a guideline for the Provincial, Regional, Municipal, and any other form of land owner to use.

 

parker2

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As hard as it is, please try to be rational and positive in your communications with them.

I know I know.

It just pisses me off!

I spend a lot of time in National parks every year practicing LNT camping, My caches get VERY LITTLE traffic and are all on/near trails.

 

I’m mad!

Oh yeah, I totally understand. These are "our" parks (speaking generally), yet it seems that our ability to use them is being taken away from us more and more. There is an off-trail hiking trail in the Smoky Mountains that I have been on 15 or 20 times. They closed it because a Peregrine Falcon moved into a hole on the 150' shear faced cliff. These same birds live on skyscrapers in NYC no less, yet we have to close an area because of this one bird. Go figure. I'm all for protecting wildlife and all, but sometimes they go to the absurd. I respect the trail closure, but I don't like it one bit.

 

Keep the discussions going. I like to see people coming together. Maybe a good cause such as this can bring some of the fractured groups together for all of our mutual benefits.

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The discussions between Parks Canada and OGA have mainly been in Email format. We had the one meeting at the beginning of April as mentioned far up in this thread. I have also talked on the phone once to the main Parks Canada contact since that meeting.

 

I strongly encourage everyone to send their feelings, thoughts and suggestions to the email provided in the Parks Canada Policy, that was posed by Cache-Tech.

 

I also believe that anyone that wants to contribute to the online petition created by Keith Watson, on his Golden Horseshoe Geocachers webpage, do so as well.

 

I additionally think that if someone wants to write to their MP and/or MPP about this, or directly to Parks Canada, that they should.

 

To quote the great Canadian rock band Trooper "When you know there's something wrong, why don't you right it?"

 

It has been my experience that the main contact from Parks Canada is genuinely interested in our involvement, although sometimes they should get things they say checked by the geocaching community before they say them, and that they provide replies to all suggestions and issues in a very timely manner.

 

It comes down to this.... Parks Canada has provided us with a policy and an email address to send them feedback.

 

They asked for the feedback, so now the ball is your court.... provide the feedback.

 

Help them to understand the impacts, benefits and drawbacks of Geocaching. Suggest how the hobby can be enjoyed without causing problems.

 

Be positive, encouraging and all of those other methods that achieve success.

 

As for posting the conversations between Parks Canada and OGA, I would have to get permission from Parks Canada to do that, as email exchange of this nature is done in an informal manner.

 

But the basis of our conversations and the ideals that have been put forward are already in this thread. If you want a clear picture of Parks Canada's current situation then read their policy. If you want to know OGA's, then read this thread.

 

We are however planning to create an online PDF or similar to detail what WE have said and done.

 

But you have to understand that much of our discussions are exactly that, discussions, and not dictating terms.

 

To date, we still have not received a list of any caches that Parks Canada are reviewing or might be affected by this policy.

 

I will say that I told the Parks Canada contact that should all the caches be removed and then a policy is created to permit physical caches, that the original locations that were removed should have first priority to be put back in as long as they are suitable under the new policy. The cache owner should have a three month window to that location. And they should also have the right to reactivate an archived cache, not have to submit a new one. That would be up to the individual cache owner. Provided that Parks Canada and Geocaching.com policies are met, the original cache owner should basically have 'squatters rights' to a location for a period of up to three months, and after that time the area becomes 'open territory'

 

OGA - Admin

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Geocaching is an activity.  So is hiking, biking, fishing, hunting, riding ATV's, etc.

Wait, they permit ATVing in federal parks but they're disallowing Geocaching because they're worried that it might have a negative impact on the environment? Please, someone tell me I've missed something, because that's INSANE. ATVs and other offroad vehicles completely destroy any trails they're used on, and yet we can't hike in and search for a cache?

Mtn-man is from Georgia. He's speaking of American National Parks. I'm not aware of any Canadian Park that allows motorised recreation (other than boating and perhaps snowmobiling).

 

Of course, I'm only familiar with western Parks. There may be an eastern park or two that allow such activity.

In Fundy National Park there are twoo dirt road that form the boundries, but are technically inside the park. My friend, an avid ATVer, was talking to park staff and they told him it was ok for ATV to use these roads.

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I think that we need to work with Parks and show them we are an assest. We need to demonstrate we will follow rules etc.

 

We however must lobby MP's local and the Honourable Stéphane Dion, Minister of the Environment. Do it in a manner that is respectful of the organisation that is in charge of our natural history. We really need to convince local parks that we are good customers (yes customers) its not cheap to enter a National park! WOrth it but not cheap.

 

Organise clean ups

 

Limit Cache numbers

 

Stay away from sensative sites historic or natural.

 

Have fun and enjoy our parks.

 

Mountaining biking was frowned on in our parks but we made room now we need to convince the parks agency and our elected officials that we are looking to have a low impact sport that supports family fun.

 

There are golf courses, mountain bikes and RV's in many of our parks I truly beleive we can coexist within the park and frankly make it a better experience. Imagine walking a trail and noticing a tree that will fall in the next week or month. make it a way point and send it to the park we might save a life.

 

OGA bravo you demonstrated a mature professional

 

The face of a 5 year old that gets a yo-yo or drops a travel bug. We are the new users of the parks and geocaching will serve to bring people to the trails, water falls and maybe a little treasure.

 

I posted this link to parks in the maritime site

 

http://www.parkscanada.pch.gc.ca/agen/trm-...8-/table8_e.asp

 

Review the page..... The minister's vision includes this statement

 

"provide an environment for visitors to create their own experience"

 

Lets get busy!!!!!!!

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The link that was posted by "Dontkillbill" was very insightful.

 

Another member of the OGA Executive had quoted certain sections of it in an Email to me, but it was nice to have a link posted in the forums.

 

I'll post it again, so more people might use it.

 

Parks Canada's "Minister's Round Table" - Feb 2005

 

I find it very interesting that we are now working to develop policies to help Parks Canada achieve this 'recommendations'.

 

Also, I understand that the main Parks Canada contact which can be emailed at rec.activities@pc.gc.ca has been receiving some emails, and I hope that more people send even more, and more and more. They need to know how we can make Geocaching a part of their program.

 

As it says in the "Minister's Round Table" document, they want to develop new ways to attract more visitors, and explore new ideas.... We all know Geocaching is ideal for this.

 

So, write that email, and continue to post your inputs here.

 

I know some people think that things that have already been said don't need to be said again..... but repetition helps reinforce the message.

 

Beside, when Parks Canada keeps hearing the same comments from dozens or hundreds of cachers, it shows a unity. A clear agreement that we want to enjoy the Parks that Canada Parks has to offer.

 

OGA - Admin

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Parks like other organisations have manadates and policies.

 

First in the mandate.

 

http://www.pc.gc.ca/agen/chart/chartr_E.asp

 

There is another document on the parks website on Policy. It's in regards to park activities.

 

http://www.pc.gc.ca/docs/pc/poli/princip/part2/part2a6_E.asp

 

They have a great wedsite with lots of information including the CEO and Ministers message.

 

I'll be glad to sign a document supporting caches in our parks. I will only put my name to it if its respectful to the people at parks.

 

If we aren't sucessful I will seek political action but I will give Parks a chance before going the MP and Minister of Enviroment route.

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