Warning

[+Pengy&Tigger]

Just a quick warning to anyone thinking of doing The Green Mile near Barrow-in-Furness.

 

To quote our log...

 

"We didn't get to search for this cache, as what greeted us at the site was quite disturbing. There are two dead lambs there, which have look like they have suffered particularly nasty deaths.

 

We have been reliably informed by Pengy's sister (A sheep farmer in the area) that there have been reports of large predatory birds attempting to make off with new born lambs. At a guess I'd say that this is what has happened.

 

In our time caching (with and without kids), we have seen several dead sheep, but you accept it as part of nature. However, I would not like anyone to be taking children caching and see what was seen today. I would recommend temporarily disabling this cache until you can check the location and give it the all clear."

 

The note is on the cache page, for the owner to decide, but we thought we would warn here as well, in case anyone had already downloaded or printed the cache details.

[+third-degree-witch]

what injuries did they have ? throat n shoulder by any chance ?..my m8 lost 16 store lambs last year..all with the above injuries,lost 4 in one night !.whipsnade sent out an expert and he concluded it was consistant of a big cat kill......several weeks later his son saw a large black cat go into a wood whilst he was ploughing.we sat out for several nights with our guns but didnt see it.this year has passed peacefully enough with no attacks as yet.its always good to stay on your toes,especially around here in hertfordshire.gory subject i know but intresting all the same.

[+Pengy&Tigger]

Didn't look to closely, but one was on it's back with insides opened up. The other one was in brambles a couple of feet off the ground but dead, consistent with the 'being dropped' theory.

 

T

[+third-degree-witch]

the only birds i can think of that could possibly lift lambs would be golden eagles,red kites possibly and a rank outsider would be a large buzzard.foxes or carrion birds would soon open up the carcass.i would LOVE to see a golden eagle.

[+-Phoenix-]

Id be very surprised if a big cat made 4 kills in a night and didnt consume its kills, that is very uncharacteristic of Cats, sounds more like a domestic dog, probably a small one like a Terrier.

 

Maybe the fact that the carcases are still there are indicative of the bird in question not being large enough to carry away the kill.

 

Shielding kids from such things is a little overprotecting I think, much better would be for them to see these things, and have the situation explained in the right context by their parents, nature does some brutal things sometimes, and the more you can help your kids understand how nature works then the better prepared for life they will be.

[+third-degree-witch]

in the case of the 4 store lambs the throats had puncture wounds and the shoulder/leg completely ripped off n missing in every case

[+Pengy&Tigger]

Shielding kids from such things is a little overprotecting I think, much better would be for them to see these things, and have the situation explained in the right context by their parents, nature does some brutal things sometimes, and the more you can help your kids understand how nature works then the better prepared for life they will be.

 

Perhaps. Last year I took my 8 yr old nephew caching, and I was fully aware that there was a dead sheep (well rotted) exactly at the cache site. At that age he is aware of such things and was a bit curious as you would expect. I guess it depends on age, but at least it is on the cache page so people can make up their own minds.

 

Retrieving the cache may be a little more difficult though. When I said they were at the cache site I meant RIGHT at the cache site. Cache hint says hidden in brambles, Lamb also in brambles.

 

T

Edited April 16, 2005 by Pengy&Tigger

[+stora]

Shielding kids from such things is a little overprotecting I think, much better would be for them to see these things, and have the situation explained in the right context by their parents, nature does some brutal things sometimes, and the more you can help your kids understand how nature works then the better prepared for life they will be.

 

Perhaps. Last year I took my 8 yr old nephew caching, and I was fully aware that there was a dead sheep (well rotted) exactly at the cache site. At that age he is aware of such things and was a bit curious as you would expect. I guess it depends on age, but at least it is on the cache page so people can make up their own minds.

 

Retrieving the cache may be a little more difficult though. When I said they were at the cache site I meant RIGHT at the cache site. Cache hint says hidden in brambles, Lamb also in brambles.

 

T

When I take my 3yr old caching with me, once I've found the cache site, I let him 'find' the cache himself.

 

With this info, I would rather do a cache like this on my own.

 

Thanks for the warning, I agree with both of you.

[nobby.nobbs]

it could be pretty much anything. lambs do just die and then get dragged off by foxes/ dogs etc etc. saying that there are increasing reports of big cats....who do kill and store food or just discard if disturbed.

 

i make sure my six year old is aware that meat doesn't come from tesco's but i'd be wary of showing her a really gory site. delicate balance of exposure and protection.

 

the local farmer needs to be told so he can dispose and not encourage any local carnivors to get a liking for lamb.

[+Jan and the Percey Boys]

Id be very surprised if a big cat made 4 kills in a night and didnt consume its kills, that is very uncharacteristic of Cats, sounds more like a domestic dog, probably a small one like a Terrier.

 

Well it wasn't me - a lamb is bigger than me, mind you I am partial to a bit of leg from a welsh educated engineer

 

The avatar one of the percey boys!

[+dysdera]

On the idea of children not thinking meat comes from tesco's (asda in our case) we were telling peter gently about where chicken nuggets come from, hoping it wouldn't affect his feelings about them ( well perhaps it might which would also be good!!) . Anyway he thought about it for a while then said

 

' so who pulls the heads off the chickens then'

 

from the mouths of babes eh.

[+Kitty Hawk]

My 6 year old would be fascinated. He'd be less affected than me.

[+dino-irl]

we were telling peter gently about where chicken nuggets come from,

Depending on where they are bought that could be tricky for an adult to get their head around

[+lathama]

death is something which children could come across at any cache. One if mine is on an agricultural college (my home residence at uni). some of the sights here ar amazing during the rut (deer) and lambing season. Some cachers have been stop in their tracks by the Burton Hunt (fox hunting) - not trying to cause comment on this just saying.

These are all things whioh you could find at any cache in the country and so finding to dead lambs and sheilding kids from it is pathetic if you ask me.

[+milvus-milvus]

the only birds i can think of that could possibly lift lambs would be golden eagles,red kites possibly [..]

In defence of red kites ( ), I think that's very unlikely. They have very weak feet - would be interested in the carrion, but not carrying it off.

[+third-degree-witch]

it was you ! come on...admit it lololol

[+-Phoenix-]

Id be very surprised if a big cat made 4 kills in a night and didnt consume its kills, that is very uncharacteristic of Cats, sounds more like a domestic dog, probably a small one like a Terrier.

 

Well it wasn't me - a lamb is bigger than me, mind you I am partial to a bit of leg from a welsh educated engineer

 

The avatar one of the percey boys!

My leg is well used to getting unwanted attention from dogs, at one time it considered having a restraining order placed on one dog that was stalking it!

 

Not singling terriers out particularly, for any reason other than the fact that larger dogs tend to depend on power of their jaws to crush and pierce, whilst terriers tend to have a more violent/thrashing type of attack that has a tendency to rip and tear, foxes do this as well, but Ive not heard of a fox go on the 'rampage' with lambs (chickens yes)

 

All knowlege gained from an early life living on farms, animal kills are all part of life especially at this time of year, and like already said anything could have been the initial cause of death and carion birds would have just taken over after that.

 

From the further description given it sounds like the carcases may have been thrown in the hedge by the sheppard, much more convinient than taking them back to the farm, because then they would have to be 'properly' disposed of, and giving lamb carcases to farm dogs is a real dumb idea unless you want to develope your own sheep killer!

[+-Phoenix-]

death is something which children could come across at any cache. One if mine is on an agricultural college (my home residence at uni). some of the sights here ar amazing during the rut (deer) and lambing season. Some cachers have been stop in their tracks by the Burton Hunt (fox hunting) - not trying to cause comment on this just saying.

These are all things whioh you could find at any cache in the country and so finding to dead lambs and sheilding kids from it is pathetic if you ask me.

I supose the more important thing is whether yourself as a parent can ahndle it, because your reaction is what gives the kids the cue for their reactions

 

Myself, being brought up in an agricultural family, I was openly exposed to the facts of nature on a daily basis, animals mate/die/get eaten/suffer horrific injuries etc were daily facts of life.... I never knew chickens came shrink wrapped until I was 13, and the thought that we wouldnt want to eat those cuddly orphan lambs which we hand nursed never occured to me, fox hunting was a way of protecting the local farming community from financial loss, and helping to maintain the community.... it strikes me as strange that as a kid we lived in an area where there were less than 20 families living within 5 miles of us and we knew them all on first name terms, yet there are now over 100 families within 500 yards and we know just three in such a way... I guess thats the benefits of progress!

[+G Force]

I have always wanted to tell this story. Driving past a field of sheep with their lambs when our eldest was aged about 3. I duly pointed saying 'look at the lambs' eldest replied 'no mummy they aren't lambs they are chops'

 

On a more serious note. Our local paper ran an article today about lambs being attacked by wolverines. It seems they will kill and leave the prey lying and shouldn't be approched if seen.

 

Mrs G

[Leoness]

I have always wanted to tell this story. Driving past a field of sheep with their lambs when our eldest was aged about 3. I duly pointed saying 'look at the lambs' eldest replied 'no mummy they aren't lambs they are chops'

 

On a more serious note. Our local paper ran an article today about lambs being attacked by wolverines. It seems they will kill and leave the prey lying and shouldn't be approched if seen.

 

Mrs G

 

Are there any wolverines in the UK?

[nobby.nobbs]

probably, we seem to have pretty much everything else.

 

not too many reports of tasmanian devils.

[+Dead Poet's Society]

 

On a more serious note. Our local paper ran an article today about lambs being attacked by wolverines. It seems they will kill and leave the prey lying and shouldn't be approched if seen.

 

Mrs G

Please….. We’ll be blaming polar bears next

[nobby.nobbs]

i recon they were trampled by a herd of wildebeast!