What To Do?

[+TruFinds]

What should I think of geocachers who work in teams (but use separate accounts)? I have never encountered this before, nor have I heard pos/neg about team play in forums.

 

The case in question is this... I just hid a new cache (my 1st), and the instructions say to give/take a where's george dollar, as it is a themed cache. I later clarified the instructions to read that the dollar **MUST** be registered on WG.com in order to qualify. The FTF did as the cache instructed, and T the original WG and left a new WG dollar. After getting this first log (and being pleased with them following instructions), i figured I should clarify for others, so i added the registration requirement. A few minutes later, a second log came via email to me, and they stated they were part of a team and found the cache. I then posted a note to the cache page stating that i will allow that one to slide, since I just clarified the rules. A few minutes ago, the person who was the 2nd log emailed me the following:

 

Don't wanna pollute the log base so I'm qualifying my find here. I was a member of a team and didn't think two bucks was necessary. Cool hide.

 

BTW, they did log it as a find on the cache site. Am I just being anal, or should they have traded the WG, also.

 

Please point me in the correct direction; let me knkow if team caching is OK like this or not (IMHO i don't think it should be allowed - 2 finds should = 2 people following directions independently). I don't know if i should reply to this or just keep my mouth shut.

 

Thanks in advance!

[+Jennifer&Dean]

So the real question is... to log a find MUST the finder have traded a Wheres George dollar? Or can you log a find without trading? Your cache, your rules. If your rule change would have caused that person to be unable to log the cache, let it slide. But don't be suprised if more folks do this type of logging. It is fairly uncommon for a themed cache to say that in order to log you must trade. After all, the finders have been there and found it. Spell it out really clearly what you expect from finders and expect less folks to log it if you require the trade.

-J

[+Jamie Z]

I read your post a couple of times, and if the cache page is as confusing as the post, I wouldn't bother trading WG dollars either.

 

Basically, any logging or trading "requirement" listed on a cache page is simply a suggestion. There's no way to enforce that folks trade for WG dollars or anything else.

 

They found a box in the woods. They log a find. That's the point of this game.

 

Jamie

[+Prairie Dog]

Can you clarify the team caching concept?

I see it as 2 ways. One way is several cachers meet up to hunt a cache and each one logs it as a find. So cacher A, B, C, and D all get credit.

The other way is a whole family hunts a cache but only logs it one time like "Team Smith Family" was here.

If no one has a WG dollar to trade they could just sign the log right?

[+The Leprechauns]

I've been planning a cache run up through Youngstown and Akron, which is all untouched caching territory for me. But I don't play the Where's George game. Thanks for alerting me to the strict logging requirements, as is your right.

 

Is everyone loving the new "ignore list?"

[+TruFinds]

So the real question is... to log a find MUST the finder have traded a Wheres George dollar? Or can you log a find without trading? Your cache, your rules. If your rule change would have caused that person to be unable to log the cache, let it slide. But don't be suprised if more folks do this type of logging. It is fairly uncommon for a themed cache to say that in order to log you must trade. After all, the finders have been there and found it. Spell it out really clearly what you expect from finders and expect less folks to log it if you require the trade.

-J

Yes, one of the requirements is to trade a WG. Although i have a low find number, I have viewed a large number of caches, and it seems that more frequently, the requirements (especially in locationless) are getting more strict. I thought that making WG trading a requirement would make that cache more interesting, especially since it is a parking lot micro (no flames, please - i have read the great hate flame of wally world micros). this cache is to be an introductory cache, as this town has NO caches in it; but it would also give the experienced cachers a reason to go to it.

 

I hate to post the cache... please don't unnecessarily flame.....

Here is the cache

 

I added this part for further clarification:

** Please register your dollar on www.wheresgeorge.com before logging your visit. Any log with an unregistered dollar will be deleted. **

 

i guess it really didn't STRONGLY convey the REQUIREMENT of trading WGs in the original.... but thats WHY i told him it was OK, I would let that one slide.

 

augghhhh..... live 'n' learn.................................

 

I think it is only fair to allow those logging withihn the next few days as finds, even if they didnt trade? Let me know.

[+Stunod]

Please don't make swapping WG$ a requirement. You will only upset people.

[+AtoZ]

I had a simular thing happen with one of my caches there was a FTF geocoin it it that was to be a FTF in a cache by the FTFer. But the FTF for the cache didnt take the coin and I had speciffically stated in the log that if you are not going to take the coin and start a new cache then DON"T do it. Well someone did. SO I debated whether to delete the log and all and finally contatected the approver who I had gotten the coin from and he said to just let it slide it is only a game. So I did no reason to start a hate war in the area. But I have a friend with a sequential coin cache that will delete you log if you don't follow the rules.

My problme is I don't have a WG nor have I even seen one so I would be denined doing you cache. That is what I think about when I do a cache will it stop some one from doing it.

cheers

[+TruFinds]

Please don't make swapping WG$ a requirement. You will only upset people.

out of curiosity, why would it upset people? IMHO, I have seen many caches (especially locationless) that have requirements, and I just don't do them if i don't have what is required (sure, I would LOVE to do the cache that requires scuba certification, but I can't). Its almost like premium member only caches (that's what MOC is, right?).

---No flames intended---

**Please understand, this thread is out of curiosity, not anger**

I thought I was doing a GOOD thing by introducing a community to an easy cache, but allowing some complexity for those with experience. Perhaps I should increase the difficulty? Please advise.

Thank you all

[+Stunod]

Please don't make swapping WG$ a requirement.  You will only upset people.

out of curiosity, why would it upset people? IMHO, I have seen many caches (especially locationless) that have requirements, and I just don't do them if i don't have what is required (sure, I would LOVE to do the cache that requires scuba certification, but I can't). Its almost like premium member only caches (that's what MOC is, right?).

---No flames intended---

**Please understand, this thread is out of curiosity, not anger**

I thought I was doing a GOOD thing by introducing a community to an easy cache, but allowing some complexity for those with experience. Perhaps I should increase the difficulty? Please advise.

Thank you all

The only requirement for logging a traditional cache should be signing the log. Anything else is just making the cacher jump thru hoops. If you keep your requirement (which I admit is your right), you will have to delete logs and many of those people will be upset with you.

 

I have seen many caches in my area that are setup as WG$ caches, but there is no requirement to swap, only suggestion.

[+TruFinds]

The only requirement for logging a traditional cache should be signing the log. Anything else is just making the cacher jump thru hoops.

question....

 

what would be a more appropriate type other than a traditional cache?

 

thanks.

[+Team Perks]

Please don't make swapping WG$ a requirement. You will only upset people.

I don't think it will necessarily upset people...unless they didn't read the cache page (as I often don't) before searching your cache.

 

What it WILL do is make sure a lot of people skip over your cache. If that cache was near me, it could well go straight onto my ignore list.

 

That said, it's your cache and you can enforce whatever rules you want to.

[+Jamie Z]

I thought that making WG trading a requirement would make that cache more interesting, especially since it is a parking lot micro.

I don't think extra logging requirements make a cache more interesting. A cache is interesting based on the hide technique and location. If you've selected a memorable hide location and/or a clever hiding technique in conjunction with an interesting container, most people will find it interesting without any extra hoops to jump, as Stunod said.

 

Jamie

[+The Leprechauns]

Please don't make swapping WG$ a requirement.  You will only upset people.

out of curiosity, why would it upset people? IMHO, I have seen many caches (especially locationless) that have requirements, and I just don't do them if i don't have what is required (sure, I would LOVE to do the cache that requires scuba certification, but I can't). Its almost like premium member only caches (that's what MOC is, right?).

---No flames intended---

**Please understand, this thread is out of curiosity, not anger**

I thought I was doing a GOOD thing by introducing a community to an easy cache, but allowing some complexity for those with experience. Perhaps I should increase the difficulty? Please advise.

Thank you all

I don't get upset, the game is supposed to be fun, but it ought to tell you something if one of the ten busiest geocachers within 100 miles of you has already put your cache on his "ignore" list. Where's George is just something I have no interest in doing, so if it's mandatory for finding your cache, I'm skipping it. And I am well-known for doing *all* types of caches and defending the rights of hiders to place them. I would also skip a needlepoint-themed cache if trading was mandatory, since I don't do needlepoint. But I've happily found themed caches, and enjoyed the nice spots they were in, by not trading at them to respect the integrity of the theme, and simply logging my find.

 

Make it an optional requirement and your cache goes right back on my to-do list. There are a ton of new caches popping up in the Sharon/Youngstown/Akron area and that's great. I would like to find them all!

[+TruFinds]

well, folks.... youve shamed me enough into removing the strict requirement.

 

my next question is how should I appropriately change the cache website? do i just remove the **text** or do i make an announcement of the change - i think the odds are very good that not a lot of people have viewed it, as I have only had the requirement posted a couple of hours, and most people are still at work now.

thanks.

[+Jennifer&Dean]

Locationless are a horse of a different color and require different setups for logging. Virtuals are the same in that you have to prove you have been there in some way.

A regular cache has a logbook. Anyone can go the coords for a regular cache and find the box. Their log in it's logbook should be all they need to prove they have been there. Many folks cache without the cache pages and don't know about the requirements until they go to log the cache online. THIS is where fights start. The cacher has been to the location, found the logbook and signed it. But they aren't allowed to log online because they didn't know the requirements to start with.

With a locationless, you know before you head out what you need because you need to know what you are looking for with a locationless. With a traditional you may not have even read the page before you head out- just loaded the caches into your GPS and gone.

-J

[+TruFinds]

I thought that making WG trading a requirement would make that cache more interesting, especially since it is a parking lot micro.

I don't think extra logging requirements make a cache more interesting. A cache is interesting based on the hide technique and location. If you've selected a memorable hide location and/or a clever hiding technique in conjunction with an interesting container, most people will find it interesting without any extra hoops to jump, as Stunod said.

 

Jamie

Well, there isnt much as far as a beautiful view, and i didnt want to place a micro in a park (i planned a regular size there when it stopped snowing so much). anyone knowing brookfield, oh knows it is a boring, sleepy little town. I guess a lousy little parking lot micro by itself would be ok, in retrospect.

[+The Leprechauns]

Thanks for listening!

 

Just edit your cache page and maybe delete the note you left.

 

You can say something like this, which I'm used to seeing at themed caches:

 

This is a themed cache. If you have a Where's George Dollar to trade, that's great!  If you do not, please respect the theme by just signing the log and not taking or leaving anything.  Thanks!

[+TruFinds]

Thanks for listening!

 

Just edit your cache page and maybe delete the note you left.

 

You can say something like this, which I'm used to seeing at themed caches:

 

This is a themed cache. If you have a Where's George Dollar to trade, that's great!  If you do not, please respect the theme by just signing the log and not taking or leaving anything.  Thanks!

mind if i use the phrase?

[+JohnnyVegas]

I have found a few caches that included trading specific items in order to log the find, it is not big deal. But what you should do is list the requirments in the cache discription rather than as a note. As people find your cache the note you left will be pushed down the list. Cacher that cache paperless may only see five logs when they bring up the cache page on their PDAs and PPCs . Just edit your page to add the new requirments. Some cacher just cache with coordinates and not notes of any kind, for them there is not a lot you can do.

[+Stunod]

well, folks.... youve shamed me enough into removing the strict requirement.

 

my next question is how should I appropriately change the cache website? do i just remove the **text** or do i make an announcement of the change - i think the odds are very good that not a lot of people have viewed it, as I have only had the requirement posted a couple of hours, and most people are still at work now.

thanks.

Just change the text...that's all you can really do.

 

If you want to mention the WG$ that is in your cache, please do. Heck, even include a link to the WG$ site for people who are not familiar with it. You'll find a lot of people do trade WG$ in caches (I did for a while, but tired of it). You could even ask that if people do trade the $, to please let you know in their log.

 

Thank you for reconsidering your requirements.

[+TruFinds]

I have found a few caches that included trading specific items in order to log the find, it is not big deal. But what you should do is list the requirments in the cache discription rather than as a note. As people find your cache the note you left will be pushed down the list. Cacher that cache paperless may only see five logs when they bring up the cache page on their PDAs and PPCs . Just edit your page to add the new requirments. Some cacher just cache with coordinates and not notes of any kind, for them there is not a lot you can do.

the old requirements were in the body of the cache description, and also in a note.

[+The Leprechauns]

Thanks for listening!

 

Just edit your cache page and maybe delete the note you left.

 

You can say something like this, which I'm used to seeing at themed caches:

 

This is a themed cache. If you have a Where's George Dollar to trade, that's great!  If you do not, please respect the theme by just signing the log and not taking or leaving anything.  Thanks!

mind if i use the phrase?

You are welcome to use that text, or to customize it to fit your own writing style. Glad to help, and glad that I'll be able to find your cache someday. Go hide some more!

[+zcubed]

This cache Here in Denver has logging requirements that are to be followed or the owner will delete the find. If you don't have the coin or don't want to follow the rules don't do the cache. The requirements make what would be an ordinary cache interesting. I really had to look around to find the coins needed. It wouldn't be that hard to go to WG and enter a bill and do your cache. You're not out a buck because you are picking one up, so I don't see the big deal.

[+TruFinds]

the cache is changed. Please review and advise.

 

many thanks to all!

[+Sagefox]

well, folks.... youve shamed me enough into removing the strict requirement.

 

my next question is how should I appropriately change the cache website?

I completely changed my post now that you have changed your requirement. Glad I checked.

 

Cache owners can make any restrictions they wish to but many times this leads to negative comments on the cache page or some snotty email. That kind of takes the fun out of it. A certain amount of whining comes with being a cache owner but I find it better not to set up a situation that encourages it. Jamie Z made some good comments about avoiding that potential.

 

Also, there are many of us who cache while traveling and use PDA's. I put the gps on autoroute to the nearest cache in the difficulty/terrain range I'm working with and hope there are no special requirements when I get there. For a 750 mile trip, one way, I need to download about 200 caches in order to find 20 to 50 caches. I can't stop to read all those pages before I go.

 

Your question is probably answered by now considering the fast response pace but here is my take: You don't need to make any announcement when editing a cache page. Just change it anytime you wish. If someone actually finds the cache during a rule change and doesn't fully comply it is best to be very lenient.

[+The Leprechauns]

Another thing to keep in mind is cache density in your area. The cache that zcubed linked to is cool and obviously enjoyed by the locals, but there are tons of other caches in Denver, so if I'm a newbie or someone just passing through town, I can easily skip that one and still have lots of other caches to visit. No big deal.

 

But if the *only* cache in Brookfield Ohio has a weird restriction, you'd find that not a lot of people will go out of their way to visit Brookfield Ohio. Your "starter" cache will attract more newbies and visitors now without the logging restriction. Then, the newbies will start hiding caches too, and the powercachers will say "there's a new hider active in Brookfield, you can stop by there on your way from Sharon to Youngstown." Before you know it, there will be 25 caches in Brookfield and at that point it would be perfectly fine to try something a bit different.

[+Sagefox]

the cache is changed. Please review and advise.

I would recommend that you not have a Where's George bill trading requirement for those who arrive without bills. They should be able to sign the log. Many of us seldom trade at caches. It is the HUNT and LOCATION we are after.

 

Requesting that people only trade WG bills only would be a palitable option.

 

One thing that all new cache placers find out quickly enough is that people will ignore themed trading caches and will leave all manner of gifts and junk. The cache owner often ends up being disappointed.

 

There is a human nature element here that is the subject of literally hundereds of forum topics. The best way to avoid negative vibes at your cache site is to avoid unnecessary requirements.

[+The Leprechauns]

I own a cache with a keychain theme. The last log was February 28th - it was a newbie's first find. That is absolutely the best kind of log to read. Knowing that your cache helped someone get hooked on the hobby is a great feeling. Notice that the newbie took and left nothing. How many of us were prepared with good trade trinkets for our first hunt? Not me! Thank goodness that I didn't include a trading *restriction* or else that newbie might of picked someone else's cache as their first hunt, or I would've been in the terrible position of having to decide whether to delete a newbie's first find.

 

I could care less that the newbie didn't trade. For that matter, I don't care about anyone else's trades, either. A few times a year, I check on my cache and dump off all the neat keychains I've collected in my travels, while removing any cache contents that aren't keychains. It is not a big deal. The keychains aren't the point of that cache.

 

The point of that cache is to mislead people into thinking it's a park and grab when they see it's less than .1 from the parking lot, only to find themselves slogging through a swamp.

Edited March 3, 2005 by The Leprechauns

[+Sagefox]

I would recommend that you not have a Where's George bill trading requirement for those who arrive without bills.  They should be able to sign the log.

Oops! Re-reading your cache page I see your instruction covers it.

 

sign the log and leave the marked bill

 

At first reading I thought it meant the cacher was still required to leave a WG bill. But now I see that it means that the WG bill that is (hopefully) in the cache should be left there if you don't have a WG bill to trade..

 

And now you see other ways in which cache instructions are not followed. Some of us don't always take time enough to read them carefully.

Edited March 3, 2005 by Team Sagefox

[+zcubed]

Another thing to keep in mind is cache density in your area. The cache that zcubed linked to is cool and obviously enjoyed by the locals, but there are tons of other caches in Denver, so if I'm a newbie or someone just passing through town, I can easily skip that one and still have lots of other caches to visit. No big deal.

Good point.

 

If you read back in the logs for the coin cache it got screwed up somewhere along the way, even with the requirements in bold.

[+TheAlabamaRambler]

Firstly, Thanks For The Hide! We need all the hiders we can get! Some of us are fairly plain-spoken, so please don't think our lack of PC speech is aimed at you!

 

I do want to mention a couple of things. WG folks by and large do NOT want their bills in geocaches. The whole WG thing is to watch it move through the economy - geocachers take them out of the economy and inhibit their natural travels.

 

Requirements were pretty much covered and you responded well - I often cache with just a GPS, going from nearest waypoint to next - with no notes - no way I would know your requirements!

 

Lastly, I cache with groups of friends, sometimes in big groups. We generallly will make up a team name and sign it to the log once rather than all of us sign and fill up your log. Then everyone that was on the team logs the find - so you may have one signature in the cache log but 20 finders log it online.

 

Have fun,

Ed

[+sbell111]

My feeling about groups is that it is totally OK for them to find it together and all log it online. I use this same thinking on my LC. If a couple cache together, but log separately, I let them both log the item.

[Trinity's Crew]

I had a simular thing happen with one of my caches there was a FTF geocoin it it that was to be a FTF in a cache by the FTFer.

The last time I called someone an FTFer they took a swing at me!

[+Renegade Knight]

I have a similar cache. You take the old buck, leave a new buck and log the serial number of the one you took.

 

If 227 people find it as a team, they only need to log the one transaction. Everyone else gets to tag along. Where I have had mandatory trades I've always allowed teams to act as one even though they log separatly.

 

Other than that one cache I also don't have any left that have anything but a suggested theme.

 

It's a lot easier to reverse the cache than police it. That means have the theme lead to the cache find so they have to log a WG buck then you will email coords for the cache. Or solve a WG related puzzle for the cords. People are more willing to do the legwork up front than they are after they found the cache.

 

Edit: To answer the orignal question in the title. They are following the general custom of things. Just like on a virtual emailing the answer and logging the find happen at the same time, UNO.

Edited March 4, 2005 by Renegade Knight

[+southdeltan]

I thought Where's George.com frowned on WG$ going through geocaches. I read somewhere Geo-WG$ got banned from their system or something like that.

 

I personally think logging requirements are a bad idea. If I found the cache, I found it. You can't take that away from me by preventing me from using the GC.com system to log the cache. I would probably log the cache and continue to log it if it was deleted.

 

Of course, it's also a very high possibility for many that it'd go on the ignore list. That's a shame.

 

sd

[+Sagefox]

Lastly, I cache with groups of friends, sometimes in big groups. We generallly will make up a team name and sign it to the log once rather than all of us sign and fill up your log. Then everyone that was on the team logs the find - so you may have one signature in the cache log but 20 finders log it online.

Nice touch.

[Hucklebuck]

A lot of people don't know that they can create a WG$ easily, so you might get a few more hits if you give a brief explanation of the WG site. I'm afraid people will wait till they find one to do your cache. Good advise from the rest of the posters, anything you can do to make it fun for finders, but reduce your stress is worth it. Dropping the "requirement" is good. Guys like me never know where they're gonna be next and just "show up" at caches without printouts.

 

edited to fix gross spelling errors

Edited March 4, 2005 by Hucklebuck

[+flask]

WG deletes logs from bills that travel from geocache to geocache. they feel it isn't in keeping with THEIR game.

 

when i find a WG bill in a cache i take it out and use it to buy food.

[+BlueDeuce]

nevermind

Edited March 4, 2005 by BlueDeuce

[+WRITE SHOP ROBERT]

Ummm....

 

Wheres George guidelines say that you shouldn't be putting them into caches anyway.