How Does The 500 Foot Rule Affect Multis?

[+Thot]

Assume I'm about to create a multi cache that has 3 steps (three sub containers) plus the main cache. I understand the main cache cannot be within 500 feet of an existing cache, but:

 

1) Can one of the steps be within 500 feet of an existing cache?

 

2) If so, I assume each of the three can be within 500 feet of three different caches.

 

3) Can all three be within a 500 foot circle that includes another existing cache?

[+IV_Warrior]

Stages can be within 528 feet of other stages of the same cache, but all stages must be at least 528 feet from other caches/stages of other caches.

[+Thot]

Hmm . . . That makes doing a multi a little difficult in my area. The cache density is becoming so great it begins to be difficult to find thee places for the three stages that are not within 500 feet of a cache. Finding one decent location for the main cache is difficult enough. Oh, well. Guess I won’t make it a multi.

[+Thot]

Upon further reflection I don’t understand how this can work. Since I have no way to know where many intermediate stages, or even the final stage of multis are, how do I avoid being too close to them? Seems to me a person could spend a lot of time planning, laying out and placing multis just to be told they were wasting all their time and have to throw it all away.

[+DaveA]

Hmm . . .  That makes doing a multi a little difficult in my area.  The cache density is becoming so great it begins to be difficult to find thee places for the three stages that are not within 500 feet of a cache.  Finding one decent location for the main cache is difficult enough.  Oh, well.  Guess I won’t make it a multi.

Email your local approver, tell them what you wish to do and see what they say. Don't give up without even trying.

 

At the same time if cache density in your neck of the woods is so high that you can't find a spot within .1 miles to place one why even bother? Obviously your area has enough. I mean that would be one cache for every 1.5-3.0 minutes of walking assuming one walks at 2-4mph.

 

If the density really is that high in your area then I would suggest a micro removal party. It has been done before. Look up the micros in your area, take note of the owners who haven't logged on for over a year and email them about their cache. All those who don't respond report their cache as "needs to be archived". Indicate that the owner hasn't logged on in over a year and didn't respond to email.

[+Thot]

I mean that would be one cache for every 1.5-3.0 minutes of walking assuming one walks at 2-4mph.

 

Are you being facetious? Obviously there isn't a place for a cache every 500 feet. One starts with the fact that caches pretty much have to be put in parks. This does seem to be a popular cacher area. Houston’s first cache was placed less than 3 miles from me. There are only so many parks. There are three manicured parks near me where I have yet to find a location to put a cache, even a micro, that it wouldn’t be seen by muggles. Because of this the two really easy areas to find hiding places already have gangs of them. When I said, “Finding one decent location” is hard, I meant I don’t really want to add four more caches to these overdone areas. But, even these relative easy areas don’t have a workable location every 500 feet. There are large green areas, wide trails, water, etc., etc. This doesn’t mean there aren’t any, they just become more and more difficult to find, and my idea requires four independent cache locations for this one multi. When finding one decent one is difficult enough. Finding four (that are 500 feet from all other caches) it more trouble than it’s worth. I’d just do without.

 

Your suggestion to check with the approver brings up an interesting point. Does he know where every stage of every multi is located? If not, how are these rules enforced?

 

Are these rules written down anywhere? The only rule I have found on this subject says “The approvers use a rule of thumb that caches placed within .10 miles (528 feet or 161 meters) of another cache may not be listed on the site.”

 

This talks about a “cache” not stages that are not themselves caches.

Edited February 6, 2005 by Thot

[+DaveA]

 

Are these rules written down anywhere?  The only rule I have found on this subject says “The approvers use a rule of thumb that caches placed within .10 miles (528 feet or 161 meters) of another cache may not be listed on the site.”

 

This talks about a “cache” not stages that are not themselves caches.

 

That's my point. Check with the approver for your area either via direct question or via submitting a cache for approval. If your legs aren't within .10 miles of a cache more than likely your approver isn't going to be aware that one of your legs is 1 ft away from someone else's leg on their multi.

 

The approvers are just poor unpaid slobs like you and me. It isn't like they have access to some super computer maintained by the CIA

[+sbell111]

...At the same time if cache density in your neck of the woods is so high that you can't find a spot within .1 miles to place one why even bother? Obviously your area has enough. I mean that would be one cache for every 1.5-3.0 minutes of walking assuming one walks at 2-4mph....

It is not really an issue of every place on the planet being taken, just the spots that fit the needs of the planned multi. Often times when you place a multi, you have an idea of what obects/locations you wish to use for the stages. If a person hasn't done every multi/mystery/unknown cache in his/her area, it would be impossible to know whether your stages or final location is too close to the stages or final location of a current cache.

 

I would identify the corrds that my cache will use for each stage and the final location and run them by my local approver. I would not hide the box or create the page until I heard back from him.

[+robert]

Thot,

 

DaveA is right, as much as it might be hard to admit it. Email your approver and let them know where you're planning your stages. They can let you know if there are any reasons you might have problems so you can address them ahead of time. You should have no problems placing your multi (or ANY cache for that matter) if you contact your approver regarding any uncertainty.

 

For any newbies out there wanting to place your first cache, you don't need to contact your approver each time--only if there's some question as to whether or not there will be conflict. You can get many questions answered here in the forums, even if the answer is "Check with your approver".

 

Good luck, Thot. When your cache is approved, let us know the waypoint ID.

 

 

edit: To address one of your other questions about whether or not the approvers know the position of every leg of every multi--my guess is NO. However they do have software at their disposal that we do not have that would allow them to make a better decision regarding approval.

Edited February 6, 2005 by robert

[+D-cachers]

Howdy from OK...I find this line of discussion very interesting.

 

It seems to me that the key coord location that should be at least .10 mile from another cache is the final cache location of a multi-stage. Of course, as a cache owner, you should do the research and be familiar with caches in that area and make sure you aren't placing one of the multi stages on top of another cache.

 

Now that I have said that, I just did a multi where the final location shocked me as it was within approx. 50 feet of another traditional cache. Hmmmm....

[+IV_Warrior]

Now that I have said that, I just did a multi where the final location shocked me as it was within approx. 50 feet of another traditional cache. Hmmmm....

Yes, if there's a multi or whatever anywhere nearby, you should find it to make sure you know where the stages are. I know at least my local approver has been asking for stages of multicaches. I'm pretty sure they're being saved somewhere for future reference.

 

That said, obviously they don't know where the or final of multi's/mysterys placed before they started asking for this information may be located. Hence, you will sometimes find caches like the one you mentioned if one or both were placed some time ago.

 

Another note, some places DO consider each stage to be a cache. From what I've read in a different thread, NY state, for example, is limiting cachers to 5 caches per State Park, and each stage of a multi counts as a cache.

[Keystone]

Hello Thot,

 

Perhaps you might benefit from reviewing the FAQ thread pinned at the top of this forum, where you will find this post summarizing the cache saturation guideline.

 

The best way to know whether your proposed cache interferes with any existing caches is to go out and find the existing caches. That is a good idea before adding a cache to a park that already has caches in it. Be sure to have all the area's caches -- including ones you've found, and all stages of multi's/puzzles -- loaded in your GPS when you set out to hide your own multi.

 

Sometimes you run into a situation where there's a complex multicache or puzzle that might start miles away from the park you're interested in, but you have no idea that it ends there. Your volunteer cache reviewer will let you know if this is an issue.

 

As others have suggested, it's a good idea to contact your reviewer in advance of placing a multi in a cache dense area. A dialogue can save you repeat trips back into the field. You can ascertain what flexibility the volunteer is able to afford you under the cache saturation test.

[+Sputnik 57]

If I'm not mistaken, Prime Approver can help Thot with his specific question. He is very responsive, and Shining Happy People everywhere follow his good advice.

[+Thot]

some places DO consider each stage to be a cache.

Just my two cents, but in my opinion, if it counts as a cache it should count as a find.

[+hukilaulau]

some places DO consider each stage to be a cache.

Just my two cents, but in my opinion, if it counts as a cache it should count as a find.

Then keep your own log book and count everything you want to as a "find."

 

Seriously, think about the reason for the distance guideline. It is to minimize the liklihood of too much traffic or damage to the environment in one small area.

You get that from too many people walking around, regardless of whether it's looking for a stage or final cache of a multi. It seems like you are going way overboard to find a reason to circumvent the intent of the guideline. If you really want to, go ahead and set one up and see what happens. The approvers try to look at the big picture, but maybe they will overlook something and you can flood your park with multis right next to other multis.

[+Thot]

some places DO consider each stage to be a cache.

Just my two cents, but in my opinion, if it counts as a cache it should count as a find.

Then keep your own log book and count everything you want to as a "find."

. . .

 

The approvers try to look at the big picture, but maybe they will overlook something and you can flood your park with multis right next to other multis.

Smart aleck and sarcastic remarks are rarely constructive.

[+beejay&esskay]

Seriously, think about the reason for the distance guideline. It is to minimize the liklihood of too much traffic or damage to the environment in one small area.

I think another reason is to minimize the confusion. If a stage is within 528 ft of another stage, it is certainly possible that the wrong stage would be found...possibly leading you off to find the wrong final cache.

Edited February 7, 2005 by beejay&esskay

[D2Cacher]

.edit:  To address one of your other questions about whether or not the approvers know the position of every leg of every multi--my guess is NO.  However they do have software at their disposal that we do not have that would allow them to make a better decision regarding approval.

I placed a cache and it was approved. Several months later another cacher re-enabled a cache he had disabled. Someone looking for the second part of my multi found his final 6 inches from my micro. I started looking for another place for my micro, feeling that he had been there first. I emailed my approver with the new coordinates and the response I received regarding why mine was approved so close to his was:

 

"The problem is the other caches nearby are older multi caches from before geocaching.com checked and recorded multi locations. I have only the starting coordinates for the other multis in the area."

 

I don't know the date when gc.com started recording all the stages of multis, so that information is available to approvers for some multis but not for others.

[+AtoZ]

Thot,

 

DaveA is right, as much as it might be hard to admit it. Email your approver and let them know where you're planning your stages. They can let you know if there are any reasons you might have problems so you can address them ahead of time. You should have no problems placing your multi (or ANY cache for that matter) if you contact your approver regarding any uncertainty.

 

For any newbies out there wanting to place your first cache, you don't need to contact your approver each time--only if there's some question as to whether or not there will be conflict. You can get many questions answered here in the forums, even if the answer is "Check with your approver".

 

Good luck, Thot. When your cache is approved, let us know the waypoint ID.

 

 

edit: To address one of your other questions about whether or not the approvers know the position of every leg of every multi--my guess is NO. However they do have software at their disposal that we do not have that would allow them to make a better decision regarding approval.

The problem can be it is hard enough some times to commumicate with you local approve just to do the final approval much less to bat back and forth an idea. The other problme is you have to PLACE the cache to then have it rurned down and then if you cant fix it then you have to go clean it up.

[+JohnnyVegas]

...At the same time if cache density in your neck of the woods is so high that you can't find a spot within .1 miles to place one why even bother?  Obviously your area has enough.  I mean that would be one cache for every 1.5-3.0 minutes of walking assuming one walks at 2-4mph....

It is not really an issue of every place on the planet being taken, just the spots that fit the needs of the planned multi. Often times when you place a multi, you have an idea of what obects/locations you wish to use for the stages. If a person hasn't done every multi/mystery/unknown cache in his/her area, it would be impossible to know whether your stages or final location is too close to the stages or final location of a current cache.

 

I would identify the corrds that my cache will use for each stage and the final location and run them by my local approver. I would not hide the box or create the page until I heard back from him.

 

What if you send to coordinates to the approver and you never hear back

It works both ways, What about a puzzle cache in which the coorditnates have nothing to do with the cache and their is no reason to go to were the coordinates are. Got Coffee

If someone cannot figure out the puzzle, how do they know were to place a cache to avoid another one. I sent an e-mail listing coordinates for a cache placement a few weeks ago and have not heared anything. The guidlines are not clear on this matter, The cache may be more than .10 mile away. It might me a few miles away.

 

Also, what about a noob that hides a cache after downloading all the caches in and area. If the noob is not a premium member he will not know about a members only cache that may be within the .10 area limit. Will his cache be allowed and if not how will he know were to move if he is not a premium member.

Edited February 9, 2005 by JohnnyVegas

[+Jeeping Family]

Also, what about a noob that hides a cache after downloading all the caches in and area. If the noob is not a premium member he will not know about a members only cache that may be within the .10 area limit. Will his cache be allowed and if not how will he know were to move if he is not a premium member.

Been down that route. I was told to hit Hide & Seek and put in my coordinates, search and see if anything says it is that close. It told my kids on their first location that the Premium member cache was only 145 ft away. So, they had to find a new place to hide it.

Edited February 9, 2005 by Jeeping Family

[HIPS-meister]

I suspect that "rules" of this sort are really "guidelines," and that cache approvers will treat them as such. There are exceptions to every "rule."

 

Multi-caches are great fun, and very appropriate for parks, historic locations, and places that deserve a little more than just "drive up and run." Since I like to work them, I also like to set them. Obviously, not every location is big enough to permit enforcement of this "rule." But this rule isn't so carved-in-stone that it is really meant to exclude the placing of good multi-caches at good, appropriate locations.

 

Therefore I say, if you have a good, original idea for a multi-cache, submit it. Explain why you feel the cache should be approved... why your idea is a good treatment for this spot and why a multi cache works well there.