Are Some Puzzle Caches Unfair?

[+Team Ullium]

Thanks Jodel,

 

and I think it does you proud that you don't mind having the co-ords to your micro emailed around...but can you see that other cache placers might not be so understanding or indeed pleased?

 

Also, I prefer to be independant and I actually was going to attempt having a go at some DIY until I costed the exercise

 

But I was hoping not to involve individual particular cases in point on this thread because then it apt to get personal...and I didn't want that

 

I mean so what if there are a few caches that some of us just cant bag...the point I was trying to make was that if it were made really plain on the cache page of what was involved then making the decision to bypass that particular cache would be easy!

 

In the two cases you have brought up both are really not all that clear as to what special equipment is required and finding out is part and parcel of the puzzle...wouldn't you say??

 

Which is not to my mind a clear declaration of what is involved. I feel the same about caches that are hidden in dangerous locations which one only discovers when arriving at the co-ords and need to return another day with a bit of specialised equipment (in my case my trust rope ).

 

Bill.

[+Stuey]

Paul has said it all very diplomatically, and saved me a load of typing, lol.

 

I am getting my coat

[+Team Ullium]

Right SP first

 

fair enough SP but I still maintain that I don't need to have placed a cache to pass the particular comments I have in this instance...now if I had been talking about how easy or difficult it was to set up a cache page....your comments would have been very relevant and I would have been the first to put my hands up to the fact See what I'm getting at??

 

But no worries I have a thick skin and it is not in my nature to be miffed for more than a few moments

 

Now klaus23

 

with the the instances you have highlighted I have no argument with...and for the most part would encourage this type of teamwork! But what if I did a few of your caches and then posted the final co-ords to all my mates in the area for them to go out and bag?? How would you feel about that???

 

That is the point I was making when I said where does team work end and cheating begin....perhaps cheating is not the correct word ... but I can imagine cache placers thinking in these terms....can't you??

 

Bill.

[+Simply Paul]

Every cache can be pointed out by a cacher who's done it before. Every multi could have the final co-ords mailed to a mate. It's not just tricky puzzles which are at risk of being 'by-passed'. Some of my 'what a lovely walk' multis have been circumvented by some clever (or lucky?) cachers and they've found them without doing the walk. That's fine by me. They've simply been creative. On the down side they've missed out on a nice walk, but I can't 'force' people to play the game how I'd like them to.

 

Anyway, I'm glad we've not fallen out Bill.

 

SP

[markandlynn]

No one answered my question about finding one needed specialised equipment without previous warning? Now I wonder why??

Probably because this is the first time you have said those exact words in this particular thread.

Of course that is unfair. Email the cache owner or post a note on the cache page to that effect. If that fails to ellicit a response then email the PTB.

All caches are different. The cache on Ben Nevis requires at certain times of the year some seriously expensive kit to get to safely and confidently so should this one be allowed as well? Or this one which requires undertaking a very expensive expedition. All variants of the game. Variety IS the spice life.

[+Team Ullium]

Every cache can be pointed out by a cacher who's done it before. Every multi could have the final co-ords mailed to a mate. It's not just tricky puzzles which are at risk of being 'by-passed'. Some of my 'what a lovely walk' multis have been circumvented by some clever (or lucky?) cachers and they've found them without doing the walk. That's fine by me. They've simply been creative. On the down side they've missed out on a nice walk, but I can't 'force' people to play the game how I'd like them to.

 

Anyway, I'm glad we've not fallen out Bill.

 

SP

Anyway, I'm glad we've not fallen out Bill.

 

Hahahaha....perish the thought SP....I enjoy your sense of humour too much

 

Yes every point you make there is transparently obvious and of course I have no argument with....the moot point (which you didn't comment on) was would you be as a cache placer be pleased at all your hard work in devising and placing a particular cache...especially a puzzle one...being reduced to nought by one person or persons emailing the final co-ords about?

 

You guys are experts at avoiding the main issues and stating points that I do not have any crib with as if I was arguing against them!!

 

Again that was the point of me stating that it was a thin line I was drawing...where does help become just spoiling the whole point of having a puzzle cache??

 

Is this a language thing?? Is my Govanite language perhaps needing one of those

802.11b compliant translation pieces of equipment eh??

 

Bill.

[+Haggis Hunter]

SP you posted this whilst I was still typing up my reply to Bill, I have to say that you have made perhaps a valid point.

 

I still know what Bill is getting at, but as you say variety is the spice of life, and different is good.

Well I hope that is just one of your usual wind ups HH .... because whether or not I have placed a hundred or just one or none at all does not in any way invalidate my comments IMHO.

 

Consider for a moment...suppose I had placed just one easy cache....would that have made me any more qualified??

 

I think not ...the question of how many caches might be a subject of some fun by some people but has no place in this discussion ... unless it is to attempt the old debating ploy of trying to discredit the person in the hope somehow that this will discredit his argument??

 

Bill.

No, it wasn't one of my usual wind ups, as you are obviously rather peeved that people are not agreeing with your point, again!! I shall try my best not to answer on any threads that you are having a debate on. I am sorry that you disagree, that I agree with someone else.

 

Oh!! By the way did you miss the post, where I was agreeing with you?? As you haven't replied to it, not that I could see anyway.

 

Jodel,

 

Your cache that you have used as an example was the one that I was refering too, as had been said I have paired up with someone with the equipment, and I am supplying the transport for the evening. This arrangement was made several days ago, I think that it can be seen as working as a team. I look forward to doing it.

Edited December 10, 2004 by Haggis Hunter

[Leoness]

After a long discussion, I am wondering what your thoughts are now, Bill, having heard various people's viewpoints and opinions.

 

Is your opinion still the same or do you see things any differently?

 

Do you feel any different for having had this discussion?

[+Team Ullium]

After a long discussion, I am wondering what your thoughts are now, Bill, having heard various people's viewpoints and opinions.

 

Is your opinion still the same or do you see things any differently?

 

Do you feel any different for having had this discussion?

Ah Leoness

 

A fellow (is that the right word?) Leo !!!

 

Now I expected you of all people to see what I was getting at ??

 

Just kidding of course

 

To answer your question I have to bring your attention to a fact of life (no not that fact of life ) when dealing with emotive subjects which might stir deeply into even slightly taboo subjects which involve the individual's psyche conception of right and wrong .... then one can expect some mud to be stirred and indeed flung!

 

So with that in mind I consider have thought I got off lightly with just a bit of debating ploy being directed at me. The unfortunate thing is that if you read through the posts you learn more about the individuals than you do about their opinions on the subject at hand.

 

It was a pity that the silent majority did not get involve as I had wished...only the more confident and articulate members posted. It would have been interesting to see what geocacher had to say? But perhaps that was a bit naive of me to think they might.

 

But this I will say ... I hope that I have made a few people think in future about how they describe their caches on the geocache page

Even if they would rather eat screw nails than admit it!

 

Bill.

Edited December 10, 2004 by Team Ullium

[+Jodel]

Bill,

 

Firstly, rather than me/someone else e-mailing you the co-ords I'm very happy to lend you the necessary equipment if you like.

 

Secondly, to go back to the is it/isn't it cheating question, If cacher A was to e-mail Cacher B to get the co-ords for the actual cache location on my Brainbuster or Snaik's wall or Doofa's Who what.... or any other puzzle, then yes I would be p'ed off because I agree that that is cheating. On the other hand, for someone to e-mail someone else and say that "I know I need a Wifi notebook to do this cache, Can I borrow yours or can you give me the co-ords?" I see no difference between this and those two cachers going along together at the same time to do the cache.

 

Knowing how to get the answer is usually more difficult than the answer itself!

 

HTH

 

Jodel

[Leoness]

After a long discussion, I am wondering what your thoughts are now, Bill, having heard various people's viewpoints and opinions.

 

Is your opinion still the same or do you see things any differently?

 

Do you feel any different for having had this discussion?

Ah Leoness

 

A fellow (is that the right word?) Leo !!!

 

Now I expected you of all people to see what I was getting at ??

 

Just kidding of course

 

To answer your question I have to bring your attention to a fact of life (no not that fact of life ) when dealing with emotive subjects which might stir deeply into even slightly taboo subjects which involve the individual's psyche conception of right and wrong .... then one can expect some mud to be stirred and indeed flung!

 

So with that in mind I consider have thought I got off lightly with just a bit of debating ploy being directed at me. The unfortunate thing is that if you read through the posts you learn more about the individuals than you do about their opinions on the subject at hand.

 

It was a pity that the silent majority did not get involve as I had wished...only the more confident and articulate members posted. It would have been interesting to see what geocacher had to say? But perhaps that was a bit niaive of me to think they might.

 

But this I will say ... I hope that I have made a few people think in future about how they describe their caches on the geocache page

Even if they would rather eat screw nails than admit it!

 

Bill.

Meow... or should that be Roooooooaaaaarr! (I'm a pussycat... really!)

 

Thank you, Bill, for your open and, I am sure, honest reply.

 

The reason I asked the question was because I am interested in people's motives for doing things as this, too, helps one to learn more about the individual person and for me, is not at all "unfortunate"!!!

[+Team Ullium]

Bill,

 

Firstly, rather than me/someone else e-mailing you the co-ords I'm very happy to lend you the necessary equipment if you like.

 

Secondly, to go back to the is it/isn't it cheating question, If cacher A was to e-mail Cacher B to get the co-ords for the actual cache location on my Brainbuster or Snaik's wall or Doofa's Who what.... or any other puzzle, then yes I would be p'ed off because I agree that that is cheating. On the other hand, for someone to e-mail someone else and say that "I know I need a Wifi notebook to do this cache, Can I borrow yours or can you give me the co-ords?" I see no difference between this and those two cachers going along together at the same time to do the cache.

 

Knowing how to get the answer is usually more difficult than the answer itself!

 

HTH

 

Jodel

This is the kind of reasoned response I had hoped for Jodel...thank you!

 

I knew this issue would be hotly debated but I had hoped for more responses in the same vein as your own.

 

And I apologise for dragging you into it...even when you came on board yourself I still tried to keep the subject general rather than specific...but some wee devils were not content with that and I can see why you felt the need to get involved!

 

My sincere thanks for your thoughtful offer of the equipment loan (and I am tempted being a new gadget freak like many on this forum...although I can't always feed my need ) ... I haven't yet bottomed out on all my avenues of inquiry in this respect

 

Knowing how to get the answer is usually more difficult than the answer itself!

 

Yes I agree sometimes a puzzle cache can hinge on lots of things...and I thought opening up a discussion like this might make cache placers just that bit more aware of how they describe the caches on their pages

 

There was nothing personal intended

 

Bill.

[+Pengy&Tigger]

It was a pity that the silent majority did not get involve as I had wished...

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but less and less people are getting involved in discussions on here lately. Perhaps this is because some people tend to 'have a go' at people who disagree with them, rather than having a reasoned discussion.

 

I have kept quiet about this for several days now, but each day I come home from work, log into the forums and wonder what today's argument is about. It didn't used to be like this I'm sure, and more people do contribute if they do not fear they are going to be shouted down when they express their opinion.

 

Some people also think it's ok to have a dig at people as much as you want, and you only have to add lots of smileys to make it alright. This comment is not directed at any one person, but some do this more than others.

 

I have seriously considered stopping reading and contributing to the forums. Perhaps others have had the same thoughts.

 

T

[+Jodel]

No problem Bill, no offence taken.

 

One question I will ask though (to everyone not just you!) How does is this cache different to Snaik's 10th & 3rd or Centre of Scotland or Jocks's Road? They all require "specialist equipment, be it "Good legs" or "A WiFi laptop"?

 

I MUST STRESS THAT i'M NOT HAVING A GO AT SNAIK, JUST USING HIS CACHES AS AN EXAMPLE!!!

Edited December 10, 2004 by Jodel

[+snaik]

No problem Bill, no offence taken.

 

One question I will ask though (to everyone not just you!)  How does is this cache different to Snaik's 10th & 3rd or Centre of Scotland or Jocks's Road? They all require "specialist equipment, be it "Good legs" or "A WiFi laptop"?

 

I MUST STRESS THAT i'M NOT HAVING A GO AT SNAIK, JUST USING HIS CACHES AS AN EXAMPLE!!!              

No offence taken Jodi, I would be upset if someone tried those cache without the correct kit and got hurt, was on Ben Lawers (10th & 3rd) yesterday and required crampons and ice axe not your normal geocaching items. But I think i put enough information on the cache pages for to allow people to make there own mind up whether they might attempt doing these caches. In particular Jocks Road as it has taken so many life's.

 

Even Haggis Hunter will admit you need gaiters and good boots and a good head for heights for Jocks Road.

 

Me I'm not a member of a caching team but I try my best, two heads would be better than one.

 

And if someone would ask me for help to solve a cache i would help.

 

Jodel has done some great caches! he has put a spark into caching in Fife and got the email system buzzing, as has AllieBallie with her puzzles, apologise to the other Fifers.

 

In Perthshire, Perth Pathfinders have some great puzzle caches which are really amusing

 

I am only human.

 

Snaik

 

"Clachan a Choin"

[Leoness]

Snaik

 

I just listened to "Going Home" by Mary Fahl which is linked on your Angus Glens - Jocks Road cache page and it's beautiful!

 

Do you happen to have a transcript of the full lyrics please?

[+Team Ullium]

Personally I have no problem with any of Snaiks hill climb caches as their cache pages leave one in no doubt as to what you might be up against...and what you might need! And as you will notice these particular caches I have avoided...for the moment anyway

 

And a good pair of legs could hardly be termed as specialist equipment in my opinion...I just wish I had them ... that's all

 

And just so that there is no confusiion ... I would class binoculars as specialist equipment but definitely not in the same league as WiFi laptops...so I would suggest there are degrees of this concept...that is why I gave the point that it was a difficult question!

 

Bill.

[+snaik]

Snaik

 

I just listened to "Going Home" by Mary Fahl which is linked on your Angus Glens - Jocks Road cache page and it's beautiful!

 

Do you happen to have a transcript of the full lyrics please?

OT

 

Appreciate your taste

 

They say there's a place

where dreams have all gone

They never said where

but I think I know

It's miles through the night

just over the dawn

on the road that will take me home

 

I know in my bones

I've been here before

The ground feels the same

though the land's been torn

I've a long way to go

The stars tell me so

on this road that will take me home

 

Love waits for me 'round the bend

Leads me endlessly on

Surely sorrows shall find their end

and all our troubles will be gone

And I'll know what I've lost

and all that I've won

when the road finally takes me home

 

And when I pass by

don't lead me astray

Don't try to stop me

Don't stand in my way

I'm bound for the hills

where cool waters flow

on this road that will take me home

 

Love waits for me 'round the bend

Leads me endlessly on

Surely sorrows shall find their end

and all our troubles will be gone

And we'll know what we've lost

and all that we've won

when the road finally takes me home

 

I'm going home

I'm going home

I'm going home

 

Snaik

 

[Leoness]

Thank you very much for the words, Snaik.

 

I just listened to it again... following the words this time and I have to confess it has moved me to tears!

[+John Stead]

Perhaps you haven't noticed, but less and less people are getting involved in discussions on here lately. Perhaps this is because some people tend to 'have a go' at people who disagree with them, rather than having a reasoned discussion.

I have been feeling like this for a while too. I tend now to skip some topics when they become a personal chat line and fear that often this results in missing useful points.

 

I know at least one forum where subscribers can exchange their personal banter in private off the main forum - is this possible here? Otherwise those of us who do not have all day in front of their monitors will find it impossible to keep up - if that has not already happened.

[+klaus23]

Now klaus23

 

with the the instances you have highlighted I have no argument with...and for the most part would encourage this type of teamwork! But what if I did a few of your caches and then posted the final co-ords to all my mates in the area for them to go out and bag?? How would you feel about that???

Hi Bill - Sorry mate I was out for a bit there (and returned with some beer )

 

I agree completely with what you are saying here. If you just circulated the final co-ords it would be a bit detrimental to the whole point of the game. Now this is where (*stands up on soapbox*) morals and ethics come in.

 

We can all agree that, as geocaching is a game largely played by individuals who meet occasionally, the art of finding, claiming, not finding, reporting finds and so on and so forth is down to honesty. Many cache owners don't check the notebook to see who really was there. So the potential for cheating (actually - let's call it "taking shortcuts) is wide open.

 

I would also propose that the community, like most groups, is self-policing. Many cachers have over 100 caches on their watchlist, many read the forums, or the logs on the caches in their area. There's been a few threads and many posts here recently on people bumping up numbers, and say what we like, it's nice having people congratulate you on your milestones.

 

So (*rolls up sleeves*) get down to the nitty gritty of the matter. Here's two caches where I took shortcuts:

 

Southside Pub Crawl - we knew exactly which pub it was - but that was local knowledge

 

Chough Cache - Donnacha and I had a long day's caching behind us and as we had his 4x4 along we drove up the mountain (on an old logging trail). Had we walked, it would have taken 2 hours.

 

Vlad Drac's Cache - the library would have been closed at the weekend, so we tortured the cache owner until he gave us the first hint while out hiking

 

Around the Downs (Bristol) - I hate to say that I ruined what is a great cache by driving all the way around Clifton Downs.

 

I don't think there was too much wrong with them - but I would not advertise the final locations of any of the multi-caches I have found. That would not be in the spirit of the game.

[+snaik]

Thank you very much for the words, Snaik.

 

I just listened to it again... following the words this time and I have to confess it has moved me to tears!

OT

 

Thanks Leoness, that song always puts a tear in my eye, just an old soldier for all soldier!

 

Snaik

 

Clachan a Choin

[+snaik]

Also, I prefer to be independant and I

TEAM

 

"I"

 

Team Ullium!!!!

 

 

EDIT, spelling "I"

 

"Clachan a Choin"

Edited December 10, 2004 by Snaik

[+The Spokes]

I would like to answer you original question.

Yes It’s OK.

I bought Masquerade By Kit Williams when it came out as I wanted to see if I could solve the puzzle. I did solve a few of them and figured out what sort of place and time I would be looking for. But I was nowhere near claiming the prize in fact I doubt I ever would have. It was not meant to be easy. But I did enjoy it and spent many hours puzzling out the answers. (Some of the answers I got were completely wrong)

 

Just enjoy doing the cache if your stumped your stumped. There are plenty of caches out there for the numbers people. With parking info and arrows leading to the cache. It’s a hobby for all. If you find you need specialist equipment for the cache get it or give up and put a DFN.

I just wish I had the time to do some of the more difficult caches as the sense of achievement would be much higher.

As for specialist equipment only the very close to home caches do not require it. I’m talking about Transportation at a vast expense. Most use a car to find caches and the running costs of that piece of specialist equipment make the hire of an oscilloscope seem small.

If people put them out, there will be those who will find them.

Let others have their fun as well.

Keith.

[+Team Ullium]

Also, I prefer to be independant and I

TEAM

 

"I"

 

Team Ullium!!!!

 

 

EDIT, spelling "I"

 

"Clachan a Choin"

If the Ullium Team was involved in this particular aspect Snaik you would be right to pull me up ...but if you read back a bit you will see I have nothing against team effort....and while I am on the forum I speak for myself and I like to make it apparent I don't speak for my better half

 

Bill.

[+allieballie]

Me I'm not a member of a caching team but I try my best, two heads would be better than one.

 

And if someone would ask me for help to solve a cache i would help.

 

Jodel has done some great caches! he has put a spark into caching in Fife and got the email system buzzing, as has AllieBallie with her puzzles, apologise to the other Fifers.

 

I am glad that Snaik has mentioned my name here because it at least gives me an opening to make some comments about this topic.

 

Those from further north or south may not be aware, but there has been a great deal of puzzle caches popping up in Fife and Perthshire over the last couple of months - some of which have been much more frustrating to solve than others (but I think that mine are easy in comparison to some of the others!!). I also know that there has been correspondance going back and forth at times along the lines of "Here we go again...."!! However, I don't think that we need to concern ourselves with difficulty level in this discussion - that's a whole other area to argue about!

 

As I see it, this whole issue has several avenues which could be debated. Whilst you could argue that there are many caches which require specialist equipment of one kind or another (e.g. I read about one in the Lake District I think which could only have been completed by someone with mountaineering skills and therefore the associated specialist equipment), up here in the Central Belt of Scotland we do not have the same density of caches as can be found in many places down south, so when a new cache appears on your doorstep, I think that it is only natural to want to at least be able to have an attempt at completing it! I have also read in these forums before about setting yourself challenges like completing a county etc. - how can you do that if there is a cache which you cannot complete because you don't have the ability or the equipment to do it? This brings me back to the cache in question - which I think we are all clear about now (?!) and which I wanted to complete because I am only a few caches away from clearing that county!

 

I think that the obvious solution to these types of caches - which you could not do yourself for one reason or another - is, as has been brought up already - teamwork!! Now this could range from simply supporting one another with positive comments, or could be a hint or a nudge in the right direction, or it could be the outright co-ordinates. This brings us to the fine line between cheating and assisting a fellow geocacher. Now I am going to come clean here and admit that I did receive help for the WiFi cache - I would like to think that the person who helped me had some inkling that I am not up on computer gadgets/technology etc - and there is now way on earth that I would have got the final co-ordinates wthout help. In my defence, and out of interest, I did go to the co-ordinates given on the cache page and even then I would never have known how to obtain those co-ordinates - I would have been looking for them to be physically marked somewhere - I didn't even know how to pronounce WiFi (I asked someone at work and he looked at me strangely when I was saying it like whiffy but without the "h"!). So I have both received and given help for various caches and personally I think that's OK - isn't that part of being a member of geocaching community that lives in the same area -being able to ask for or give help when it's needed? However, I also appreciate the fact that some people want to work things out for themselves, and also that some people don't want to give out help - or at least not too much help!!

 

I think that most of us, being intelligent enough to use a GPS, would also like to solve as much of a puzzle cache by ourselves as we can, but if, for any reason, it proves to beyond our capabilities then I don't think that it's cheating to get help - at any level - from others. I think that you'll find in most cases that the geocacher requiring assistance will have worked out as much as they can by that stage anyway.

 

I know that this doesn't answer the question about whether it's OK to set a cache which requires specialist equipment - I am only putting the case for an alternative way to solve these!

[+Stuey]

I would class binoculars as specialist equipment but definitely not in the same league as WiFi laptops.

Not necessarily.... I am WiFi enabled for the princely sum of £25. I did have the £200 PDA already mind you. A compactflash WiFi card was bought on eBay and imported from Taiwan.

 

This is just for information for any of you that are unaware of this. As you know I got my coat and left this discussion yesterday evening

[+Team Ullium]

I would class binoculars as specialist equipment but definitely not in the same league as WiFi laptops.

Not necessarily.... I am WiFi enabled for the princely sum of £25. I did have the £200 PDA already mind you. A compactflash WiFi card was bought on eBay and imported from Taiwan.

 

This is just for information for any of you that are unaware of this. As you know I got my coat and left this discussion yesterday evening

Thanks for that info Stuey

 

Am I correct in assuming though that not all laptops/notebooks can take this additional card??

 

And apart from being of use in solving the two puzzle caches mentioned...why would the ordinary geocacher want to go to this extra expense and trouble of buying and fitting this WiFi card??

 

Bill.

[+t.a.folk]

but each day I come home from work, log into the forums and wonder what today's argument is about. It didn't used to be like this I'm sure,

"oh yes it did!"

"It's behind you"

[+Stuey]

Some laptops will have it built in, some will require a PCMCIA WiFi card, some may need SD or CF (these are all different types of connection), and some laptops may not be able to have WiFi at all.

 

With a WiFi enabled card you may be able to access the internet while within range of a WiFi network. Some shopping centres, coffee shops, etc. etc. have access points (or hot spots). Some are free, some are chargeable - you need to buy a digital key to access them sometimes). Very useful I'm sure you'll agree if you need to get bang up to minute cache page information, or maybe even to keep up to date with the latest "hot topic" on the forums while out and about, or maybe even away from home for a few days.

Edited December 11, 2004 by Stuey

[+Team Ullium]

With a WiFi enabled card you may be able to access the internet while within range of a WiFi network. Some shopping centres, coffee shops, etc. etc. have access points (or hot spots). Some are free, some are chargeable - you need to buy a digital key to access them sometimes). Very useful I'm sure you'll agree if you need to get bang up to minute cache page information, or maybe even to keep up to date with the latest "hot topic" on the forums while out and about, or maybe even away from home for a few days.

From what you say I take it though it has a fairly restricted reception area ??

 

Just this year I was on holiday and although I had my laptop with me I still had to use Internet Cafes and libraries to log my finds...so when I got back I picked up a mobile phone which gave me internet access and indeed could be connected to the laptop...now would this WiFi access be better than that??

 

I'm not trying question your information Stuey ... I'm just really interested because if it is better than my mobile phone connection (which is pretty slow btw) then I might check out if my almost new Packard Bell laptop could be fitted with this card!!

 

Bill.

[JackiePenn]

some PC-CARD (PCMCIA) Dirt cheap at www.ebuyer.co.uk, less than £20.

 

The Wombles, who set one of the caches mentioned on this thread have been known to give away WI-FI cards as FTF prizes in their previous caches.

 

WI-FI - ain't no big thang

[+The Hokesters]

Ullium,

 

If your lappy is nearly new it will almost certainly have at least one PCMCIA card slot (now more often called PC Card - your PC specifications probably declare that it has a PC Card Bus).

 

As StoneFisk states WiFi cards are reletivly cheap now but try to buy a 802.11g rather than 802.11b card. The g spec card is much faster and is flash upgradeable.

 

Hope this helps - there are tonnes of info pages on the net if you google - PCMCIA, PC Card, WiFi, etc.

 

Have fun learning...

[+Team Ullium]

Thanks guys

 

The new technology is advancing so fast it is probably subjecting me to a bit of 'Future Shock' as it used to be termed

 

Years ago I used to build my own computers but as they are so relatively cheap now and keeping up with the latest developements is nearly impossible for an old codger like me...that I just buy what I need.

 

However, I still can't work out if this would be more of a benefit to me out on the hills miles from any town as I can use my mobile phone nearly everywhere (with the odd exception of course) ???

 

Bill.

[+The Hokesters]

Probably not miles from anywhere.

 

It disturbs me that the advert for Centrino shows a couple sending video via WiFi from an amphitheatre supposedly in the middle of nowhere and I think this gives the wrong impression.

 

Really you need to be within 500 metres of a WiFi hotspot and that has to be connected to the Internet preferably by a broadband connection (often by satellite in the wilds of Scotland).

 

But I doubt you will get a WiFi connection on most walks you are likely to do in open countryside. Perhaps someone with a bit more experience of this can help.

 

I use my WiFi for wirelessly connecting my laptop to a Broadband connection and a Desktop Server and occasionally use it at service stations and coffee shops on the move.

 

I haven't tried WiFishing or WARdriving yet (google them).

 

Si

Edited December 11, 2004 by The Hokesters

[JackiePenn]

However, I still can't work out if this would be more of a benefit to me out on the hills miles from any town as I can use my mobile phone nearly everywhere (with the odd exception of course) ???

 

Bill.

One mountain hike, my nephew in his tent, me in mine. Playing Team Fortress Classic against each other across the WI-FI. But this requires the specialised equipment of a nephew, a mountain and two tents.

[Abominable Abomnible]

Thank you everyone, for putting me right on WiFi, which I have been looking into recently.

 

However, what I fail to understand, is why anyone would want to carry their LapTop computer around with them, whilst enjoying the countryside looking for caches, surely you want to carry as little weight as possible?

 

AA

[+Team Ullium]

Thank you everyone, for putting me right on WiFi, which I have been looking into recently.

 

However, what I fail to understand, is why anyone would want to carry their LapTop computer around with them, whilst enjoying the countryside looking for caches, surely you want to carry as little weight as possible?

 

AA

Well I don't think anyone actually physically carries their laptop AA ... just have it in the car to refer to when required !!

 

And perhaps like myself hook up their mobile phone to it to get internet access for the likes of logging caches or viewing maps etc.

 

Bill.

[JackiePenn]

Thank you everyone, for putting me right on WiFi, which I have been looking into recently.

 

However, what I fail to understand, is why anyone would want to carry their LapTop computer around with them, whilst enjoying the countryside looking for caches, surely you want to carry as little weight as possible?

 

AA

Depends if your doing urban or rural caching maybe. I have an old tosh P1 laptop which I don't mind leaving hidden in the car. But wi-fi is not restricted to laptops, handheld units seem popular amoungst geocachers. A gps'd, wifi handheld seems like an ideal toy.

[+Simply Paul]

Your laptop could well have WiFi built into it already Bill - Many new ones do. Look for a little switch on it (usually on the side) with an arial icon next to it.

 

SP

[+Team Ullium]

Your laptop could well have WiFi built into it already Bill - Many new ones do. Look for a little switch on it (usually on the side) with an arial icon next to it.

 

SP

Thanks SP...you know I never thought to look at the actual laptop and seeing as there was no mention of WiFi on the Spec...I just assumed it didn't have it

 

Now I have looked as you suggested and indeed I do see a plug socket with a wee aerial above it...so I'm wondering if you could be right?

 

I will phone up Comet (where I bought it) and find out if it does have it installed or whether maybe just have the provision for installation....if you see what I mean?

 

BTW I don't see a related switch?? I will get back to you later in the day as Team Ullium is going out Christmas shopping now ....arrgggg!!

 

But thanks again for the heads up

 

Bill.

[+Simply Paul]

A jack-plug socket doesn't sound quite right Bill, that might not be an arial, it might be a microphone. Have a look on the bottom of your laptop. If it's like mine (an old Toshiba Sat Pro 4600) it'll have a WiFi 'The standard for Wireless Fidelity' sticker on its bottom.

 

SP

[JackiePenn]

I will phone up Comet (where I bought it) and find out if it does have it installed or whether maybe just have the provision for installation....if you see what I mean?

Probably get a more knowledgeable answer if you pasted make and model of the laptop in this forum. Comet, suited shop sales men K.N.A.A.A

[+Team Ullium]

You are probably very right there Stonefisk... thanks...so here we go

 

Packard Bell Easynote F5280 HR

2.8 GHz Celeron

256 MB DDR memory

40 GB HD

64 MB Shared Video Memory

Combo DVD?CDRW

Windows XP

 

Is that enough...or have I missed something extra you need??

 

Oh and it weighs a ton

 

Thanks in advance for any pointers!!

Bill.

[+Jodel]

Bill

 

Looking here if that's the one, the bad news is that WiFi is not built-in but the good news is that it does have a PCMCIA socket so it is easy enough to add.

As for use "in the field" the mobile is still the way to go but if you are in urban/residential areas then you can find public "hotspots" as has already been pointed out. Many houses now have there own WiFi routers, some are "secure" many are not. As TartanT reported in his log, someone in my street has an open router so you can use it to access the internet. I suspect though that doing this is not strictly legal but I don't think that it has been tested in a court of law yet.

[+Team Ullium]

Bill

 

Looking here if that's the one, the bad news is that WiFi is not built-in but the good news is that it does have a PCMCIA socket so it is easy enough to add.

As for use "in the field" the mobile is still the way to go but if you are in urban/residential areas then you can find public "hotspots" as has already been pointed out. Many houses now have there own WiFi routers, some are "secure" many are not. As TartanT reported in his log, someone in my street has an open router so you can use it to access the internet. I suspect though that doing this is not strictly legal but I don't think that it has been tested in a court of law yet.

Hi Jodel,

 

yep that's my baby ... and it was Curry's PC World I got it from not Comet (where I was last week to replace my blown up microwave and fused electric kettle the kitchen is out of bounds for me now ).

 

First of all let me thank you for seeking out that info and as I was out today Christmas shopping I was passing by Curry's PC World so I popped in and they have a help desk so I asked the assistant who seemed quite knowledgeable about this form of wireless connection and we had a long talk...the upshot was he sold me the Netgear 54MBIT11G PCCARD for £29.99 and I have installed it (I think .. because without being able to connect it to anything I really don't know??).

 

Now a question (did I hear a OH NO there? ) I assume that I extract the card while transporting my Laptop as it kinda sticks out a bit ?

 

And do I need to go through all or part of the installation process when I stick it back in again??

 

I intend to test this out on your cache btw (oops I definitely heard an OH NO there! ) maybe tomorrow if I have time so what settings to I need it set to receive the info I need to carry on??.

 

The reason I went ahead and bought this bit of kit is that the salesman told me that when in towns and in railways, libraries etc...I might get free access to the

internet and it will be a bit faster than my mobile connection...so I thought it was

justified

 

Thanks again,

Bill.

[+Haggis Hunter]

... and it was Curry's PC World I got it from not Comet......

 

....passing by Curry's PC World so I popped in and they have a help desk so I asked the assistant who seemed quite knowledgeable about this form of wireless connection and we had a long talk...

Are you on commission from Currys PC World??

Edited December 11, 2004 by Haggis Hunter

[+Team Ullium]

... and it was Curry's PC World I got it from not Comet......

 

....passing by Curry's PC World so I popped in and they have a help desk so I asked the assistant who seemed quite knowledgeable about this form of wireless connection and we had a long talk...

Are you on commission from Currys PC World??

No Why ??

[+Simply Paul]

Currys and PC World are actually pasrt of Dixons Stores Group who also own Dixons, The Link and some others. I'm not on commission from them either. However, I do get 0.2p everytime I say Argos.

 

Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos Argos.

 

SP

[+The Hokesters]

Just a suggestion - but its probably not a good idea telling the forum that you go caching and leave your laptop in the car. A few weeks later you might ask the forum for some good caches round such and such area and the next thing you know your car will be muggled

 

PS - I am not sure what WiFi switch you were talking about SP but my Centrino (18 months old) didn't have a switch or any little aerial pictures?

 

PPS - I don't take a laptop out caching - Mrs Hokester is too security conscious for that

 

PPPS - Just for those not in the know - the WiFing that StoneFisk was referring to was peer-to-peer where two WiFi enabled devices network. This doesn't involve Internet conection unless one of the devices is connected to the Internet - not up a mountain anyway I shouldn't think

 

PPPPS - no more post scripts for now