Driving Atvs Right To The Cache

[+dingermcduff]

Lately there has been a trend in my area that worries me. I've visited a number of caches where some finder has used an ATV to bushwhack a trail to the cache site. I understand that there are handicapped cachers who use ATVs and caches placed near ATV trails...but this situation is neither. I'm sure it's people too lazy to walk who are defeating the purpose of these caches placed in fairly remote areas. I'm not talking about people riding on trails--they're just pushing over brush and vegetation to get there quickly. I've been posting notes on the cache pages, hoping that maybe the guilty party(s) will get the hint, but other than that I don't think there's much else I can do.

 

Thanks for listening.

[+clearpath]

Lately there has been a trend in my area that worries me.  I've visited a number of caches where some finder has used an ATV to bushwhack a trail to the cache site.  I understand that there are handicapped cachers who use ATVs and caches placed near ATV trails...but this situation is neither.  I'm sure it's people too lazy to walk who are defeating the purpose of these caches placed in fairly remote areas.  I'm not talking about people riding on trails--they're just pushing over brush and vegetation to get there quickly.  I've been posting notes on the cache pages, hoping that maybe the guilty party(s) will get the hint, but other than that I don't think there's much else I can do.

 

Thanks for listening.

Thats a tough one ... to be completely sure who is actually doing it, you would almost have to catch them in the act. If your cache is hidden in an area where it is legal to ride ATVs, then there isn't much you can do.

[+art begotti]

Lately there has been a trend in my area that worries me. I've visited a number of caches where some finder has used an ATV to bushwhack a trail to the cache site. I understand that there are handicapped cachers who use ATVs and caches placed near ATV trails...but this situation is neither. I'm sure it's people too lazy to walk who are defeating the purpose of these caches placed in fairly remote areas. I'm not talking about people riding on trails--they're just pushing over brush and vegetation to get there quickly. I've been posting notes on the cache pages, hoping that maybe the guilty party(s) will get the hint, but other than that I don't think there's much else I can do.

 

Thanks for listening.

which is the exact reason why many of the people i know NEED to remain muggles.

[Captain Chaoss]

Start hiding your caches in areas that force a person to exert themselves to actually reach the cache ( up trees, in rocks, etc. ) if they are lazy, they'll soon quit pursuing your caches.

[+Renegade Knight]

That's the kind of crap that gets trails closed.

[+Renegade Knight]

...which is the exact reason why many of the people i know NEED to remain muggles.

Now that's an angle I hadn't thought of. Yet it makes sence.

[+Beta Test]

Put a cache where its illegal to ATV, then put tire strips out there to pop their tires. Of course there are a lot of places where it wouldnt matter too much like beaches where the waves would wash away the traces, but yeah I agree with your point.

[+briansnat]

That's the kind of crap that gets trails closed.

...and geocaching banned.

[+art begotti]

ah... self edit. never mind this post.

Edited September 6, 2004 by artbegotti

[+woody_k]

Put a cache where its illegal to ATV, then put tire strips out there to pop their tires.

That would be vandalism and what would it be if someone stepped on the strip. 2 wrongs don't make it right.

 

Not sure if you were serious or not just needed to comment on your statement.

 

As far as the topic goes, I agree with the original post. I use a dual sport M/C to cache with and I stay on the trails and if it says no motor vehicles I park it eventhough I see tire marks up towards the path.

 

I took up caching for the exersize but I have a not so good of a knee from an auto accident 18 yrs ago so I use the bike to get close as I can. If the trail gets to steep for the knee I just forget about that cache. There will other caches to find.

 

Ken

[4x4van]

I agree with Woodyk. 2 wrongs don't make a right, and often times make a bad situation even worse, not to mention being criminal behavior.

 

I've ridden motorcycles and ATCs off-road for 35 years, and continue to do so, along with both my parents and my wife and 3 kids. I also "tread lightly", riding only on extablished trails, and always leave any campsite/area as good or better than it was when I arrived. And honestly, the vast majority of off-roaders do the same. Unfortunately, there is a very small minority of off-roaders who don't, and they give the rest of us a bad name. But the same can be said for any other activity. ATVs don't have the market cornered on idiots.

 

So don't blame ATVers for doing something stupid...blame stupid people (who just happened to use an ATV).

[virgo91967]

Okay..here is an idea... go to a sporting good stor ( or wal mart hunting section) and shell out the 60 or 70 clams to get one of the Infrared motion detecting hunter's camera with the time and date stamp. Set out a new cache. Place camera in hidden location near cache. wait for a fewy logs to get posted... go back to cache.. look for evidence that the mystery ATV cachers have been there. if they have, then retrieve camera and develop film. If there is a BINGO , then post photo ( with face blurred out) to the goundspeak forums under something like ' hall of shame' ect

that should take care of that... recycle camera as a camera cache or a cache camera

 

editeded for brain bubble

Edited September 8, 2004 by virgo91967

[virgo91967]

Oh and if they keep it up, turn them in to land management

[+BlueDeuce]

Using an ATV to geocache is an excuse to use an ATV.

 

I was talking to a Ranger the other day about vehicles in restricted areas and he told me the main problem was ATVs. Without going into detail, I don’t think that Geocaching is really their concern and I would really doubt they think geocaching is the cause for the traffic. A lot of Rangers live right at the park and they are probably already aware of the activity. No, they don’t frown on ATVs, but just like geocaches ATVs have their place.

 

If ATV riding is not allowed off trail make sure to report it to somebody. There is no worry about having to explain what you were doing off trail. It’s not like these things fell out of the sky. The Ranger I met was more frustrated then I was, I’m sure he would love public support to back up taking additional measures to prevent illegal activity.

Edited September 8, 2004 by Elf Danach

[Captain Chaoss]

The ATV problem had become epidemic in this area. An article in our newspaper gave an estimate from farmers listing crop damage due to ATV's being greater than that from deer. Many farmers expressed the feeling that they were going to have a lot more target practice on their property.

 

People were even cutting their way through fences, using yards to get to fields, etc. But, as was stated, its usually a few bad apples ruining it for all.

 

There is/was a cache in this area placed with permission by property owners for ATV use to find it, but most cachers just walked.

[+briansnat]

I was talking to a Ranger the other day about vehicles in restricted areas and he told me the main problem was ATVs. Without going into detail, I don’t think that Geocaching is really their concern and I would really doubt they think geocaching is the cause for the traffic. A lot of Rangers live right at the park and they are probably already aware of the activity. No, they don’t frown on ATVs, but just like geocaches ATVs have their place.

 

I can tell you that the rangers around here despise illegal ATVers. If you see the destruction these idiots leave behind, you'll know why. If the rangers had even an inkling that people were using ATVs to get to caches, they'd start pulling caches faster than you can say geocache. As it stands now, they have no problem with geocaching and let us be, but if geocachers start violating the law, that won't last.

 

Its not only ATVers, I had a cache in a park that bans mountain bikes and a few finders have proudly noted in their logs how they pedaled to the cache. In a park that bans dogs, some have noted that they brought thier dog along on the hunt.

 

Which leads to 2 rules of thumb. 1- Don't break the law while searching for a cache and 2, if you do, don't be so stupid as to brag about it in your log.

 

Of course this all refers to illegal ATV use (which is the only kind possible in my state, as they are banned on all public lands). If ATVs are legal in an area, I see no problem with riders using them to reach caches.

Edited September 8, 2004 by briansnat

[Pantalaimon]

I also "tread lightly" ...

Come on now. Really? "Tread lightly"? In an ATV?

 

I don't think the term "tread lightly" can be attributed in any way to riding an ATV, anywhere.

[4x4van]

Oops. double post. Sorry.

Edited September 9, 2004 by 4x4van

[4x4van]

I also "tread lightly" ...

Come on now. Really? "Tread lightly"? In an ATV?

 

I don't think the term "tread lightly" can be attributed in any way to riding an ATV, anywhere.

Yes, I said "tread lightly" on an ATV. There is such a thing, even though you'd obviously like to paint off-roading as one of the world's major destructive sins. When I ride, I stay on legal, established trails only. I leave campsites cleaner than when I arrived. I follow all laws and regulations in force. How is that destroying anything? It's no different than mountain biking, horseback riding, or even hiking, for that matter, all of which leave visible “evidence” of their existence. Contrary to "popular belief", off-roading is not the destructive force many environmentalists would have you believe it is. It is a wholesome, family oriented sport that can and most times is engaged in safely and respectfully. Unfortunately, the few bad apples out there who don't tread lightly cause the vast majority of damage and bad press and opinion for the rest of us.

 

I'm not out to destroy the environment; on the contrary, I ride with my parents and my family. That's 3 generations playing together. I want to preserve the land so that my grandchildren will be able to use it as well, and create similar memories that I have from growing up, riding together as a family. Here in the southwest, there are miles and miles and miles of desert that nobody wants and nobody knows what to do with. Most people drive through it with their windows up, praying that they don’t break down in this vast, inhospitable land with nothing as far as the eye can see. I refuse to believe that using the tiny percentage of that which is actually open to off-roaders is going to cause the earth to spiral into a fiery death. I really don’t think I’m that powerful of a force in the grand scheme of the universe. And those that do have illusions of grandeur, in my opinion.

 

For those that feel that off-roading should be banned entirely because it destroys the environment, I'd ask: "Is your home and the lot that it sits on in it's natural state? Is that not a form of natural habitat destruction?" I'd wager that your day-to-day life destroys more, environmentally, than my ATV, when you consider your commuting to and from work, the electricity, gas, water, and sewer used in your home, and the trash you produce that must be picked up by diesel-burning trucks and buried in the earth. And what about the pollution produced generating, delivering, and treating all that electricity, gas, water, and sewage, not to mention every product you and I touch and use every day?

 

I'm all for protecting the environment, but reasonable use should still be allowed. Otherwise what are we protecting it for? So that our children's children have public lands that they can't use either? The above issue isn't using an ATV to get to a cache; the issue is illegally and/or irresponsibly using an ATV to get to a cache.

Edited September 9, 2004 by 4x4van

[+dingermcduff]

Didn't really want to get into a debate on the environmental ethics of ATV use...

 

I had just hoped that someone might have ideas on dealing with this and to let people know that this is happening so we can police ourselves.

[Pantalaimon]

... even though you'd obviously like to paint off-roading as one of the world's major destructive sins ...

I'm not sure it was so obvious, especially because it wasn't my intent to "paint" anything. Sorry you perceived it that way. I just don't know how, in my own mind, to equate ATVing with "tread[ing] lightly." Perhaps the fault is mine, I admit, but just because its no different in your mind from "mountain biking, horseback riding, or even hiking, for that matter" because all such activities "leave visible 'evidence' of their existence" doesn't mean it (ATVing) is treading lightly. Again, in my opinion.

 

Just a difference of opinion. No need to slap on the catch phrase labels to attempt to bolster your argument.

 

Oh, and on another point, I'd imagine that someone craftier than myself could make a pretty sound argument for preserving land in its "natural state" for the sake of the land itself, and the sake of the creatures that walk on other than two legs. So, in answer to your question about "Otherwise, what are we preserving the land for?," a reasonable person might be able to cite a rational argument other than "So that our children's children have public lands that they can't use either." But, as I would guess a significant majority of geocachers also believe in your "reasonable use" point, I digress.

[4x4van]

Point taken, and I apologize for getting my back up so quickly. I tend to be a bit defensive, since I've ridden off-road all my life and also been attacked all my life for destroying the environment. Heck, I'm a middle aged, white male, who off-roads, rides personal watercraft, and also smokes, so in some circles I'm considered the cause of all the world's ills; pollution, environmental degradation, slavery, homophobia, sexism, racism,...! Treading lightly obviously is a relative term, and can have various meanings depending on where you start from.

 

As for saving the land for "the sake of itself, and the other creatures who walk there"; I agree that some areas should be preserved in an untouched state. However, I believe that there is enough open land available that some of it can and should be open to public use, including off-road vehicles. I also tend to believe that human beings did not arrive here from some distant planet, and therefore are just as much a natural part of this world as are any other creature, and should be allowed to actually live in it.

 

In any case, rest assurred that when I do ride, I take great care to at least minimize the impact I have on the environment.

[+C&C+COMPANY]

I PUT MY CACHES WERE YOU CAN'T GET A ATV, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH GEOCACHERS THAT DO TAKE THERE ATV'S AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLY TO THE CACHE. IF I HAD A ATV I WOULD USE IT IN SOME OF THE AREAS I'VE HIKED IN. THE ONLY PROBLEM IS I COULDN'T TAKE MY DOGS WITH ME.

[Pantalaimon]

I appreciate that reply 4x4, I thought things were spiraling out of control.

 

 

But we reigned back in the conversation, and now we're cool.

 

Edited September 9, 2004 by Pantalaimon

[+Team GPSaxophone]

Front page article in today's Albuquerque Journal:

 

U.S. Plans To Limit Off-Highway Vehicles

Proposal Aimed At Protecting Forests

 

There's no question that the number of off-highway vehicles roaring through national forest backcountry in New Mexico and other states is growing dramatically.

"We've got machines in places now that we never envisioned that they could get," Southwest Regional Forester Harv Forsgren said.

A sevenfold increase in off-highway vehicle use over the last 30 years - combined with the ability of vehicles to get in to more rugged country - is harming fish and wildlife, air quality and the solitude of New Mexico's mountains, Forsgren said in a telephone interview from his Albuquerque office.

Now, the U.S. Forest Service has a plan to put limits on so-called OHVs by banning cross-country travel and designating a system of open roads and trails for four-wheel-drive cars and trucks, all-terrain vehicles and motorcycles.

"That's a dramatic paradigm shift from where we have been," Forsgren said. "A majority of our forests have been open to off-highway cross-country travel unles closed."

 

complete article can be found at http://www.abqjournal.com/ (subscribers only, sorry)

[+cachew nut]

I PUT MY CACHES WERE YOU CAN'T GET A ATV

Hmm, you can buy ATVs here.

 

IF I HAD A ATV I WOULD USE IT IN SOME OF THE AREAS I'VE HIKED IN.

 

Now that you know where to buy one, have fun!